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Raptor3000
01-27-2012, 9:44 AM
Hi Guys,

What does Cartouche stamping in wood on stock mean on German K98? Is it a good thing or just regular stampings?

I mean does it have any collector value?

lastly are 1942 BYF made ones little scarce? or better to have?

Thanks

Fate
01-27-2012, 10:20 AM
The correct term is waffenampts. They show the part was accepted by the army (or other service branch). They're valued in the wood stock as signs that the wood hasn't been sanded and that the stock is WWII rather than something postwar. Fakery abounds though in K98s. If you don't know what you're looking at it's easy to get burned. The K98 forum over on Gunboards.com has many experts who'd be able to tell from photos if what you're looking at is legit.

1942 BYFs are fairly common, however depending on the condition (100% matching, vet bring back with papers for example) the rifle can be quite valuable.

Raptor3000
01-27-2012, 10:23 AM
Just bought one from classicarms today.

Are these guys legit? Rifle were sold out in 25 mins after listing today.

Thanks

emcon5
01-27-2012, 10:27 AM
It depends. All of them should have acceptance marks, mine are on the right side of the butt, between the bolt takedown hole and the buttplate, and look like scaled up versions of the ones on the metal, a Nazi Eagle with a number under it. Early ones had the Weimar eagle.

I believe they should also have a stamp for the branch of service they were issued to, most of which would be "H" for Heer

Raptor3000
01-27-2012, 10:34 AM
This was the decription of the rifle on classic arms:

BYF, 1942, Nice laminated stock with really smooth finish and good color. Flat buttplate, Cartouche stamping in wood on stock. Really pretty blue. Dual war eagles plus waffenamp. Serial #'s factory match on bbl, receiver and stock. Bore is NRA very good to excellent with sharp crisp lands and grooves. Grooved for sighthood and comes with the hood installed as well as cleaning rod and capture screws. Nice rifle overall from a highly sought after factory and with some highly collectible Nazi stampings. Don't miss this one.



I bought this because it has Cartouche markings on wood stock, which on other rifles was not mentioned.

what do you guys think?

Thanks

rojocorsa
01-27-2012, 11:18 AM
All of the German rifles should have them. Of course, over time, the wood wears down and stuff, so yeah...


Most byf 42s that I've seen are naturally RCs.

Raptor3000
01-27-2012, 11:41 AM
Is BYF made desirable or just very common?

Dr.Mauser
01-27-2012, 11:44 AM
With it being a BYF its a true Mauser, if there's any other codes your looking to find go here bro, this is the site I always use: http://mauser98k.internetdsl.pl/kodyen.html

Raptor3000
01-27-2012, 11:46 AM
With it being a BYF its a true Mauser, if there's any other codes your looking to find go here bro, this is the site I always use: http://mauser98k.internetdsl.pl/kodyen.html

Thank you very much, i will book mark it.

thanks

Dr.Mauser
01-27-2012, 12:00 PM
I'm trying to grab one of those pre-1940 Mausers.

Raptor3000
01-27-2012, 12:07 PM
which arsenal made ones are more desirable?

thanks

Dr.Mauser
01-27-2012, 12:15 PM
ax, BSW, and some of the early codes.

Rogerbutthead
01-27-2012, 12:49 PM
As an example, according to Backbone of the Wehrmacht, page 187, approximately 380,421 1942 byf's were made as compared to a 1937 BSW with approximately 23,780 - page 53. I haven't been paying attention to 98Ks since the prices skyrocketed several years ago. Even RC's seem to be going up lately.

Seems like 1944 production is the most common all matching non-RC/Yugo German made rifles around, or at least the 4 all matching 98Ks I got my hands on were all 1944 made. Seems logically given the war and all the 98Ks they lost on the Russian front.
http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/RogerRBH/98Ks/3riflemanunames.jpg
http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/RogerRBH/98Ks/picof31.jpg

As stated above, the guys at gunboards and http://www.k98kforum.com/ are a wealth of knowledge but they do not discuss guns currently at auction.

The guys at http://ww2weaponsforum.com/index.php do discuss current auctions and they have some very knowledgable people at that site too.

Fakes abound so be careful, alas I have been burned so often I should know. If you ever get the German sniper bug, be warned that probably 95% of what you see for sale is fake.

Raptor3000
01-27-2012, 1:00 PM
As an example, according to Backbone of the Wehrmacht, page 187, approximately 380,421 1942 byf's were made as compared to a 1937 BSW with approximately 23,780 - page 53. I haven't been paying attention to 98Ks since the prices skyrocketed several years ago. Even RC's seem to be going up lately.

Seems like 1944 production is the most common all matching non-RC/Yugo German made rifles around, or at least the 4 all matching 98Ks I got my hands on were all 1944 made. Seems logically given the war and all the 98Ks they lost on the Russian front.
http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/RogerRBH/98Ks/3riflemanunames.jpg
http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/RogerRBH/98Ks/picof31.jpg

As stated above, the guys at gunboards and http://www.k98kforum.com/ are a wealth of knowledge but they do not discuss guns currently at auction.

The guys at http://ww2weaponsforum.com/index.php do discuss current auctions and they have some very knowledgable people at that site too.

Fakes abound so be careful, alas I have been burned so often I should know. If you ever get the German sniper bug, be warned that probably 95% of what you see for sale is fake.



Can i trust classicarms? I just bought a 42 BYF from them for a premium ofcourse.
paid $479.

I was comparing to Big5 ones, which are sold for $400 and are in really bad condition.

Thanks

Rogerbutthead
01-27-2012, 1:04 PM
I bought some RC's from Empire Arms a few years back, they are very good at describing what they sell. Never bought anything from Classicarms.

emcon5
01-27-2012, 1:09 PM
Can i trust classicarms? I just bought a 42 BYF from them for a premium ofcourse.
paid $479.

I was comparing to Big5 ones, which are sold for $400 and are in really bad condition.

Thanks

Little late to be asking that now, isn't it?

I am sure it will be fine.

Dr.Mauser
01-27-2012, 1:10 PM
Classicarms is amazing, very honest very helpful. And the owner Gus is a really great guy.

Raptor3000
01-27-2012, 1:41 PM
Classicarms is amazing, very honest very helpful. And the owner Gus is a really great guy.

Feel little better :43:

This is the description of the one i bought:

BYF, 1942, Nice laminated stock with really smooth finish and good color. Flat buttplate, Cartouche stamping in wood on stock. Really pretty blue. Dual war eagles plus waffenamp. Serial #'s factory match on bbl, receiver and stock. Bore is NRA very good to excellent with sharp crisp lands and grooves. Grooved for sighthood and comes with the hood installed as well as cleaning rod and capture screws. Nice rifle overall from a highly sought after factory and with some highly collectible Nazi stampings. Don't miss this one.


thansk

Mssr. Eleganté
01-27-2012, 1:45 PM
...Grooved for sighthood and comes with the hood installed as well as cleaning rod and capture screws.

I wonder if the Russians are now installing repro sight hoods and capture screws or if the importer is doing it?

Raptor3000
01-27-2012, 1:45 PM
I wonder if the Russians are now installing repro sight hoods and capture screws or if the importer is doing it?

I think importer is doing it.

emcon5
01-27-2012, 2:01 PM
Classic Arms did it.

From: http://www.classicarms.us/daniel%20defense.htm

We are adding cleaning rods to all rifles and capture screws, and site hoods where appropriate. The cleaning rods, capture screws and sight hoods are all aftermarket but look and work just like the original.

Raptor3000
01-27-2012, 2:55 PM
One more question, does the Cartouche stamping on wood for a 1942, look like the a Waffenamt (Nazi eagle) shown in the link (Marking on the stock) ?

http://mauser98k.internetdsl.pl/gbwaffen.html

Hoping it does :-)

Super Spy
01-27-2012, 3:03 PM
I bought a K-1911 from Classic Arms and I'm very happy with it....UPS not so much.

Rogerbutthead
01-27-2012, 3:06 PM
According to Backbone of the Wehrmacht at page 187, a 1942 byf should have a cupped buttplate with a stock marked with WaA655's.

The pic I see on the site is a flat buttplate so I am guessing like most RC's, it has a mismatched stock for it.

Raptor3000
01-27-2012, 3:09 PM
According to Backbone of the Wehrmacht at page 187, a 1942 byf should have a cupped buttplate with a stock marked with WaA655's.

The pic I see on the site is a flat buttplate so I am guessing like most RC's, it has a mismatched stock for it.

Per classic arms, Factory Serial#s match on stock, barrel and receiver. Is it possible they may have produced some without cupped buttplates in 1942?

thanks

Rogerbutthead
01-27-2012, 3:11 PM
The Russians stamped the number of the receiver on the stock, is that what they mean by factory serial number matching?

Raptor3000
01-27-2012, 3:15 PM
The Russians stamped the number of the receiver on the stock, is that what they mean by factory serial number matching?

Hope not:43:

rojocorsa
01-27-2012, 4:32 PM
I'm trying to grab one of those pre-1940 Mausers.

Gun broker, bro

OpenSightsOnly
01-27-2012, 4:48 PM
Russian Captured rifles are like that . . .



Hope not:43:

Raptor3000
01-27-2012, 5:10 PM
Did Germans stamp serial#s on their wooden stocks? or the number on them are from russians?

thanks

rojocorsa
01-27-2012, 5:17 PM
Did Germans stamp serial#s on their wooden stocks? or the number on them are from russians?

thanks

German #s are underneath on the bottom, Russian numbers are on the left side, horizontally oriented.

emcon5
01-27-2012, 5:28 PM
Did Century already sell out?

Raptor3000
01-27-2012, 5:31 PM
Now i am wondering classic arms serial# matching, if they are matching the receiver with German numbers or Russian ones :-)

The one i bought is 42 Byf and the stock doesnt have a cupped butt stock and classicarms have listed it as factory serial#s match on stock , bbl and receiver.

Rogerbutthead
01-27-2012, 5:45 PM
The Russian Captures that I have seen before have receiver numbers matching to the numbers the Russians stamped on the stock, not the numbers the Germans originally have on the stock.

Germans also numbered the handguard on the inside of it.

As I understand it, the Russians disassembled the rifles, hot dipped the barrel and action then reassembled the rifles without bothering to make sure the numbered parts were the same, so I would not expect the German serial number on bottom of the stock to match the Russian one on the side of the stock. Original capture screws and sight covers were not put back on. The Bolt's were electric penciled to the receiver too, I believe, thus the German numbers on the bolt will not match either.

That's just the nature of a Russian Capture.

Raptor3000
01-27-2012, 5:57 PM
The Russian Captures that I have seen before have receiver numbers matching to the numbers the Russians stamped on the stock, not the numbers the Germans originally have on the stock.

Germans also numbered the handguard on the inside of it.

As I understand it, the Russians disassembled the rifles, hot dipped the barrel and action then reassembled the rifles without bothering to make sure the numbered parts were the same, so I would not expect the German serial number on bottom of the stock to match the Russian one on the side of the stock. Original capture screws and sight covers were not put back on. The Bolt's were electric penciled to the receiver too, I believe, thus the German numbers on the bolt will not match either.

That's just the nature of a Russian Capture.



Thanks man, I will be happy if there is Nazi eagle stamp on the stock of the one i ordered.

I think RCs are also pieces of history, as this reassembling was done right after WWII and not recently in US.

thanks

bandook
01-28-2012, 8:55 AM
Did Century already sell out?

Classic Arms probably picked up the entire inventory and is now reselling it piecemeal.

Raptor3000
01-28-2012, 9:01 AM
Does all RCs come with Waffenamts stamped on the wood stocks or only some do?

thanks

emcon5
01-28-2012, 9:16 AM
Classic Arms probably picked up the entire inventory and is now reselling it piecemeal.

Century still has them listed on their site.

Does all RCs come with Waffenamts stamped on the wood stocks or only some do?

thanksThey all should have had markings when the Germans originally produced them, but whether or not these are still visible ~70 years later, after being used by the losing side of a war, then refurbished (at least once) some years later by the victors is really the question.

Some have simply worn off.

mauser98k
01-28-2012, 9:50 AM
German #s are underneath on the bottom, Russian numbers are on the left side, horizontally oriented.

up until 1942 the Germans put the serial number on the keel of the rifle. after that they put it in the barrel channel.

Raptor3000
01-28-2012, 10:26 AM
I was reading some where that Germans always carried spare parts with out serial numbers and a punch to add serial number on the parts to match the gun serial# when needed.

Is it possible that germans would have mismatched stocks also, when ever a gun required a new or replacement stock?

thanks

mauser98k
01-28-2012, 1:19 PM
I was reading some where that Germans always carried spare parts with out serial numbers and a punch to add serial number on the parts to match the gun serial# when needed.

Is it possible that germans would have mismatched stocks also, when ever a gun required a new or replacement stock?

thanks


eh, kinda. in some spots, field repair stations would be set up to fix and replace worn or damaged pieces. i have never heard about the punch to match parts though. really doubt that.

if a whole new stock was necessary, it was easier to just issue the soldier a new rifle.

Rogerbutthead
01-28-2012, 1:52 PM
Here is a thread about armourer's parts and kits - do not see any mention of serial number punches.

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?158104-Armorer-s-parts&highlight=armourer%27s

Rogerbutthead
01-28-2012, 3:00 PM
There were rifles that were depot repaired - in the Wehrkreis system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrkreis

But they are extremely rare to find. They did apparently renumber those.

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?157355-Another-Mauser-quot-oddity-quot-IX-43-depot-rifle&highlight=Wehrkreis
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?211268-Factory-reworked-K98K-s-Pictures-added&highlight=Wehrkreis
The knowledge level on Gunboards is to say the least impressive.

emcon5
01-28-2012, 8:31 PM
The knowledge level on Gunboards is to say the least impressive.

It still kills me that they lost all the photo attachments when they updated the board software a while back. There used to be an archive with detailed photos of clean unmolested examples of just about every possible configuration of K98.

If you wanted to seen a pristine 1942 byf, they probably had photos.

Rogerbutthead
01-28-2012, 8:47 PM
Gonna put in a plug for Bob in Ohio - his cd on 98k pics and data showing most of the configurations is necessary for anyone hunting an all matching 98k amongst the horde of frauds out there. His ability to produce high quality close up of the things to look for is unmatched.

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?13507-New-reference-CD-Volume-II

Raptor3000
01-30-2012, 7:36 AM
Cancelled my order with Classic arms, they dont want to answer any of my questions after paying a premium for the rifle, not that desperate to own one :-) i can wait.

Thanks guys for really helpful information.

Thanks

Cessnapilot89
01-30-2012, 9:46 AM
Anyone know where I can find a banner k98?

diopter
01-30-2012, 6:17 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/carlosdiaopter/P1010107-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/carlosdiaopter/P1010114-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/carlosdiaopter/P1010104-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/carlosdiaopter/P1010111-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/carlosdiaopter/P1010103-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/carlosdiaopter/P1010099.jpg

Raptor3000
01-30-2012, 8:03 PM
Anyone know where I can find a banner k98?

Whats a Banner K98?

thanks

diopter
01-30-2012, 8:44 PM
This is the Mauser Banner


http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerdog/germanservicerifles/1934bannermauser/DSC07353%20_Medium_.JPG

Dr.Mauser
01-31-2012, 12:25 AM
How much is classicarms selling their K98's for? I'm looking for an early war and they have a ton, I was hoping they're affordable.

Raptor3000
01-31-2012, 8:09 AM
Don't buy from classic arms, they are jerks. and charging too much.

emcon5
01-31-2012, 8:22 AM
Is Century out?

rojocorsa
01-31-2012, 1:28 PM
Probably. It's been about 3 weeks.

emcon5
02-09-2012, 12:07 PM
It still kills me that they lost all the photo attachments when they updated the board software a while back. There used to be an archive with detailed photos of clean unmolested examples of just about every possible configuration of K98.

If you wanted to seen a pristine 1942 byf, they probably had photos.

Looks like a lot of the photos from Gunboards have been re-posted on the K98 forum:

http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?45-Picture-Reference-Index

You have to be a member to see them though.

Raptor3000
02-10-2012, 9:10 AM
Guys, which one is more desirable s/27 or 243 factory made?
Century has excellent condition ones with marking for $399, what do you think? will these have Nazi markings? Century could confirm it just says with markings.

Please let me know.

thanks

Cessnapilot89
02-10-2012, 9:22 AM
Any K98 made for the German military from the mid 30's-1945 will have nazi markings. Beware of the Century ones, they have been modified with Russian import marks.

Raptor3000
02-10-2012, 9:27 AM
Any K98 made for the German military from the mid 30's-1945 will have nazi markings. Beware of the Century ones, they have been modified with Russian import marks.

Modified? you mean there are russian import marks on them? doesnt all have some kind of import marks?

Is AX factory made more desirable than s/27 and 243?

thanks

Cessnapilot89
02-10-2012, 9:29 AM
AX is fairly rare to me knowledge. Wander over to the K98 forum on gunboards and take a look at the latest century batch. Might as well have stamped "Russian Capture" all over the poor things.

Cessnapilot89
02-10-2012, 9:30 AM
AX is fairly rare to me knowledge. Wander over to the K98 forum on gunboards and take a look at the latest century batch. Might as well have stamped "Russian Capture" all over the poor things.

Raptor3000
02-10-2012, 10:44 AM
Just ordered an 243 Factory made K98 in excellent condition from Century for $379.

Thanks

Dr.Mauser
02-10-2012, 11:02 AM
Becareful dude...read this: http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?253937-K98s-from-Century-sucked

Dr.Mauser
02-10-2012, 11:09 AM
I've found gunboards to be an extreme wealth of knowledge especially surrounding the k98

Raptor3000
02-10-2012, 11:23 AM
Becareful dude...read this: http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?253937-K98s-from-Century-sucked

Damn, i messed it up again :43:

i cancelled the order, thanks guys.

Thanks

Caststeel
02-10-2012, 12:26 PM
Thanks for the Bob in Ohio Reference. Sending snail mail today.

Have two 98ks that I recall getting from Railway Express office c. 1945 then observing Dad removing cosmoline. From uncle in Italy. No documentation. Any acceptable way to present this info? Am thinking notarized letter.