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View Full Version : Homeowner's association in TN tries banning guns!


M. Sage
03-22-2007, 6:11 PM
http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=6242822

If that happened here (no assn, thankfully), I'd have to open carry 100% of the time I was home, and make sure NONE of my rifles were cased when I carried them out for a range trip.

I'd especially open carry when I mowed my lawn.. I'd probably sling a rifle just for that. :D

grammaton76
03-22-2007, 6:21 PM
Wow. Perfect stuff to point out to obnoxious "we're so free here" free-staters. I used to live in TN, though, and I'll say that certain areas of Nashville are wretched hives of liberalism that make San Diego look ultra right wing.

pnkssbtz
03-22-2007, 6:23 PM
If I was a criminal guess where my first stop would be...

icormba
03-22-2007, 6:31 PM
If I was a criminal guess where my first stop would be...

... The Piggly Wiggly? ;) :)

Surveyor
03-22-2007, 6:33 PM
... The Piggly Wiggly? ;) :)

LMFAO!!! That or "Stucky's".

Gringo Bandito
03-22-2007, 6:35 PM
It is utterly amazing what rules those HOA's can come up with. My folks live in a small retirement community up north and were told that they could not leave there garage door open even when someone was in the garage. Needless to say, the owners fought back through a grassroots campaign and won the right to open their garage door. What a joke.

Gringo Bandito
03-22-2007, 6:40 PM
LMFAO!!! That or "Stucky's".


I used to love stopping at Stucky's on trips back to OK. Tell me another place were you can buy the following items in one place.

1. Fix your big rig
2. Buy an Ice cream
3. Get a burger
4. Buy a who farted t-shirt
5. Buy all the fireworks that you can fit in your car.

cartman
03-22-2007, 6:57 PM
I lived in a hoa nieghborhood once. They can be such *****s. They would get all butthurt because I would redo my garden without asking their permission. So naturally I'd redo my garden once a month or so. Even ripped out the whole front lawn to put in bark and rocks. I thought he was gonna **** himself.

hoffmang
03-22-2007, 7:24 PM
I was renting in an HOA and they sent he President to threaten me for having a satellite dish. I asked him if he was done and if I could have his contact information for the US Attorney since Federal law said that the US Attorney would enforce the pre-emption of all local regulations against small dishes.

He very quickly changed his tune to, "well, just make sure you have it at its minimum visibility while being use-able."

Funny that he actually knew the law.

-Gene

pnkssbtz
03-22-2007, 7:45 PM
My father had a run in with his HOA, it went like this:

He moves in, same day he moves in he gets a notice to clean the vines growing on the wall of his house and that the HOA will repaint the wall.

He moves in, clears vines calls HOA for repainting, they tell him they are too busy and call back later.

1 year later, HOA askes for $12,000 one time fee so that if any houses get water damage they can repair water damage.

Neighbor's living room floor is above his bedroom (Town Houses) and the wife likes to do her aerobic excercises at 7am...

My step mom is a stage 3/4 Her2Neu+ Breast Cancer patient and has undergone 36 cycles of treatment. When asked to push back the excercises an hour, neighbor says to "sue him". HOA told him to work it out with his neighbor (Neighbor is member of HOA board....)

Big rains come in SoCal and it turns out that my fathers condo's foundation was not properly shored up against seepage, and his hard wood floor living room floods with water.

So my father remembering the 12k he paid, calls up the HOA and talks to them and they claim that the leakage is caused by him improperly installing a sprinkler system. Except that 1.) He never installed a sprinkler system, and 2.) The sprinkler system outside of his property line has no leaks.

So he calls an inspector and the inspector diggs up around his house and concludes that the foundation isn't sealed against water seepage.

HOA then stop answering his phone call and telling him he has no authority to make any claims since he is not a structural engineer... never mind that the contractor he hired to inspect his home is the same one the HOA uses... They then told my father that he was not eligible to use any of the pooled $12k to fix his house since he didn't qualify for it...


It is our belief that certain members of the HOA board used the pooled $12k from everyone for personal renovation projects (since these HOA board members were noted for having lots of renovations done to their property in the time period after the fee was collected...) and used up the money and didn't have any left and attempted to Cover their a** when they were supposed to pay up.


Considering he was living in spyglass hill in newport beach it was no point in threatening anyone with lawsuits since they HOA could of buried him to death with their money...

Charliegone
03-22-2007, 7:59 PM
Lesson learned? DONT MOVE INTO AN HOA house..:)

hoffmang
03-22-2007, 8:06 PM
I now live in the County.

The last time the locals tried to create "zoning" half the total population of the neighborhood showed up (read more people than households in the area.) The fire department had to ask folks to leave. The proposed regs died a nasty death.

-Gene

tankerman
03-22-2007, 8:41 PM
How much you want to bet it was a bunch of folks from the North East that had moved down there and were doing what they do best, trying to tell everyone else how to live.

Satex
03-22-2007, 8:55 PM
Lesson learned? DONT MOVE INTO AN HOA house..:)

That is a bit difficult especially since local municipalities learned they can double dip with HOAs. What they have been doing here in San Diego for the past decade is only approve new residential communities with HOAs. When they do so, they transfer the maintenance responsibility of the street to the HOA. Then they hit you with Mello Roos for all the “new infrastructure” they need to build.
So, you pay local taxes, you pay Mello Roos, and you pay your HOA to maintain your street.
Its nearly impossible to find a place without HOA here. Sad, very sad!

luvtolean
03-23-2007, 8:25 AM
HOAs probably create billions in law fees annually. My GF has worked at 3 law firms with different specialties, but all of them have had cases against HOAs.

Invariably, people sitting on the boards of the HOA act above the laws. Additions to houses (while disallowing them to anyone not on the board) , fences not to spec, all sorts of seedy ****.

To say I think HOAs are un-American is about as kind to them as I could be.

To say I think they're counter-productive and actually hurt housing values long term normally really pisses people off. But they're wannabe yuppies so I couldn't care less.

I will never move into an area with an HOA due to the fact I know it will cost me lots of money in court proceedings at some point...

tgriffin
03-23-2007, 8:49 AM
What legal right do they have to do this? This is a serious question..... just what can a HOA "legislate" ? Recourse? How about city, county, state, and federal preemption?

Gringo Bandito
03-23-2007, 9:13 AM
What legal right do they have to do this? This is a serious question..... just what can a HOA "legislate" ? Recourse? How about city, county, state, and federal preemption?

They have a ton of room to operate and fighting them can take a lot of cash. I had mentioned that my folks had fought them on a couple of issues related to the garage door being opened during the day. One of the other rules was that you could not park a car in the drive way which forced many home owners to sell their cars and buy something that would fit in the garage. It took my folks and their friends at least two months to have the issue even brought up during a meeting.

The HOA had stated to my folks that it would cost 30K to change any of the "village" rules but my folks and many neighbors went door to door to pass out flyers( the HOA later told them that they could not do that without written approval) about the situation. The flyers produced a huge turnout at the HOA meeting and forced them to change the rules(at no cost) to reflect what the community actually wanted.


If you are going to fight an HOA, fight dirty for the win.

CalNRA
03-23-2007, 9:49 AM
HOAs probably create billions in law fees annually. My GF has worked at 3 law firms with different specialties, but all of them have had cases against HOAs.

Invariably, people sitting on the boards of the HOA act above the laws. Additions to houses (while disallowing them to anyone not on the board) , fences not to spec, all sorts of seedy ****.

To say I think HOAs are un-American is about as kind to them as I could be.

To say I think they're counter-productive and actually hurt housing values long term normally really pisses people off. But they're wannabe yuppies so I couldn't care less.

I will never move into an area with an HOA due to the fact I know it will cost me lots of money in court proceedings at some point...

to borrow from Sheriff Justice,

"it ain't nothing but old fashion communism"

HOA is the ideal tool of the Bradies to create "equal" communities with agendas.

bwiese
03-23-2007, 10:24 AM
Many of us move into HOA communities because they do help retain value. My GF's HOA is a little nazi on the gardening, but the upkeep & uniformity are phonomenal, and prices are still rising there.

I think I agree w/HOAs on keeping garage doors closed. Houses in neighborhoods here w/garage doors open all afternoon seem to be priced $125K less than those where such rules might be enforced.

The trick is to check out who's on the board, etc. - and get on it if there's a vacancy and/or you don't like who's there/will end up there. Busybody seniors are the worst because they have nothing else to do but nitpick.

My townhome HOA really came into use for me. I had some noisy neighbors - all hours phone conversations on the back patio (echoing into my bedroom) plus they were using their patio as a dog run - not too far again from my window (smell + barking + dog throwing metal bowl on concrete at 6AM).

They apparently are too cheap to run A/C so they left patio door open while music was playing. I politely asked them several times to address this with no result, then wrote them a more formal letter. Apparently Junior intercepted it (or does the translation for Pops; they're of Middle-eastern extraction) and calls me. Junior didn't understand that they could be removed from their home for noncompliance, and I told them in no uncertain terms that the above ills threatened my 'quiet enjoyment'. A second letter followed after momentary lapse, then resumption of their behavior.

His response was that I was racist - because I had identified the music in my letter as "Arabic/Middle eastern" (low probability that other neighbors listen to this), and that I had also complained that when I'd asked for the backyard phone chats to not be so voiced, they merely changed language from English.

At that point I lost all hope, sent copies of my prior letters to my HOA, along with photos of the 'dog run', etc.

Problems were alleviated within 4 hours. No resumption has occurred.

If I'd called cops, etc. this likely woulda been way low on radar, and I'm not sure this is police business anyway: I'd rather have contractual enforcement.

That being said, there's no way HOAs will successfully ban guns. NRA already handed HUD their *** in public housing projects and I think that will have some carryover....

Satex
03-23-2007, 12:13 PM
Many of us move into HOA communities because they do help retain value.

I think I agree w/HOAs on keeping garage doors closed. Houses in neighborhoods here w/garage doors open all afternoon seem to be priced $125K less than those where such rules might be enforced.


We will see how long that will last - i.e. long run. You can already hear people who are tiered of the cookie cutter hoods with everything looking the same. What happened to free America? A place where you walk down the street and discover that your next door neighbour has a hobby and people can be creative?

Whats next in your hood, only specific vehicles? Specific color maybe? Or maybe vehicles newer than a specific year (2005 and newer)? How about dress code? After all, we can't have a quality community with people dressing like "common folks".

HOAs are killing themselves. I just hope they die sooner than later.

bwiese
03-23-2007, 12:30 PM
We will see how long that will last - i.e. long run. You can already hear people who are tiered of the cookie cutter hoods with everything looking the same.

They say that, but buy otherwise. With $600+K homes you don't want your neighbor's slob-ism to reflect on your pricing if you need to sell.

I was walking down my street when an RE agent and client were looking over a townhome about a block away from mine. The client saw an exerbike with towel & sweater hanging from it on an overhanging patio and was worried that HOA rules weren't being enforced.

I myself am gonna have to take a look in my neighborhood, a few folks might've put up screen doors - which are tacky given our homes' design, etc.



What happened to free America? A place where you walk down the street and discover that your next door neighbour has a hobby and people can be creative?

Whats next in your hood, only specific vehicles?
Specific color maybe? Or maybe vehicles newer than a specific year (2005 and newer)?

That might be OK with me. I don't want beater cars in our area: a primered lowered Chevelle makes a complex look Section 8. We have regs too so people have to do car work (and only minimal stuff at that) in their garage.

You protect your property pricing by giving an upscale appearance - so I am all for any car on HOA property having to be in good repair (no dents, faded paint, no rust, etc.)

I wash/wax my truck frequently and ArmorAll my tires. My neighbors can/should do the same.



How about dress code? After all, we can't have a quality community with people dressing like "common folks".

I get your point, but "No Birkenstocks" and "no fat guys in bike shorts" are fine with me, along with mandatory shoe shines.

HOAs are killing themselves. I just hope they die sooner than later.

No, they won't die - because a market exists for them. Many people wanna protect their investment when they buy a new home. If you don't like it, you can buy an older home or a home elsewhere.

The HOA protects most owners from the few negligent owner and stops the decent owners from having to take the bad seed to court themselves. If the bad seed doesn't muster up & maintain his property he can be kicked out (i.e., forced not to live there). It's anti-blight.

I do believe some HOAs have gone ballistic at the wrong time, due to poor mgmt. But since HOA meetings are often sparsely attended, quorums hard to achieve, etc. - the owners have only themselves to blame for allowing bad mgmt to happen. (Kinda like a nonvoting gun owner).

Gringo Bandito
03-23-2007, 12:32 PM
HOA's already manage what color homes can be in the community. There was a homeowner that painted there house a shade of blue with white trim and they were forced to paint it back to the standard colors that are in the community. This was even after the board approved the original change.


The garage rule was pretty extreme and was written in such a way that would make you open and close the garage door for each trip out to the car to pick up your groceries.

I would agree that HOAs have there place in establishing/maintaining standards but when you have a gated community with overarching T&C's on top of the 8 "villiages" that have there own T&C's, that makes for a lot of rules.

luvtolean
03-23-2007, 3:52 PM
We will see how long that will last - i.e. long run. You can already hear people who are tiered of the cookie cutter hoods with everything looking the same.

EXACTLY.

The neighborhoods that people are truly proud to be a part of, and go up in value over the long term, just due to the address, are not IME in this state part of an HOA.

Neighborhoods like Willow Glen in SJ are desirable because they don't have HOAs. Various styles of houses have popped up as people have added on to the little cookie cutter post WWII late 40's 2 bedroom houses they started with and went crazy. Yes, occasionally you get a pink one, but normally people do really neat, tasteful stuff. The place has character and even a bit of soul. You may have to deal with the unfortunate new neighbor coming over and introducing themself though.

People become proud to live there, have block parties, even a free little newspaper they handout.

Here in SoCal, I find it the same. Irvine is a little planned out yuppie utopia. Yes, it is clean, and nice in a very antiseptic way. But it's got about as much soul as a McDonald's.

Go into the high end old hoods in Orange County, and they don't have HOAs here either.

My parents are part of an HOA out of state, and they got fined for a freakin' wrought iron decorative bench in the middle of their front yard, which was built into a little walking path with stones and everything.

There is no due process. No fair "hearing". Just a few very over-empowered neighbors.

Satex
03-23-2007, 4:47 PM
My neighbors can/should do the same.
...
I get your point, but "No Birkenstocks" and "no fat guys in bike shorts" are fine with me, along with mandatory shoe shines.


Wow Bill, as one of the most aggressive activist on the forum, you work hard to protect your (our) 2A freedoms. On the other hand, you find it A-OK to remove your neighbor’s freedoms in order to protect the value of your investment. Let me use a line we use on those who want to take our 2A rights away: “How come you selectively choose which freedoms to protect?”

If I was your neighbor, wouldn’t you think that your gun hobby would endanger my property value? Next time an RE comes around with a potential customer introduce yourself as an avid gun owner – see if they ever come back again!
What would be too much regulation? Where do you draw the line at protecting the value of your community? Whites only? College educated only?

In all reality, I don’t care if folks choose to enter into an HOA. I do have a MAJOR problem with the fact that local governments all over have resorted to only approving HOA residential communities – therefore FORCING people to accept covenants unless they are willing to commute 3 hours into the desert.

And yes, I am willing to tolerate the one neighbour that may not keep his house in full cookie cutter mode for living in a place where individualism is allowed, people have active lives and it shows.

Did anyone else notice that it is the most upscale HOA regulated neighborhoods where people never talk to each other?

BTW, I am also a Ham Radio operator, so I don’t like the fact that most HOAs disallow antennas of any kind because they are an “eye sore”. But when natural disasters happen they all come knocking for communications support.

50 Freak
03-23-2007, 5:12 PM
I for one will never ever ever buy a home with a HOA. I will run away even if the price is very attractive.

I hate HOA's with a passion. A man's home is his castle. He can get pee-d on at work all day, but when he gets home thats where he rules. Having someone tell you what color to paint your house, when you can open your garage door or whatever is a bunch of crock in my book.

I heard there was a HOA in Florida that sued one of their own because he was a Vet and wanted to fly the American flag. Sean Hannity (whatever you have to say about him, took 25K out of his own money to bail out the homeowner).

Screw HOA's, they are a just a bunch of busy bodies that have nothing better to do with their time.

HOA's make a neighborhood very unfriendly. In my neighborhood, every house is unique and beautiful. Not any grafetti or dog poop anywhere. Why??? because the neighbors all care about their property and would not allow one of their own to get out of line. We even had Christmas Carolers and every year have a block party. That's community brought out by the residents and not some stupid HOA.

HOA's can all suck my big toe....gggrrrrrr

bobby7321
03-23-2007, 5:50 PM
first thing i told my realtor when i was looking to buy a house

ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT BE IN A HOA.

imagine being a kid growing up in a neighborhood patrolled by retired old ladies with nothing better to do.

grammaton76
03-23-2007, 5:53 PM
Personally, I'd avoid HOAs to the fullest extent of my ability, if I had the money to buy a house.

I don't, so I live in a trailer park with a barely-HOA that doesn't hassle anyone. The only real hassling that goes on, is when the owner of the park (NOT the HOA!) starts getting aggressive periodically about gardening and such in order to try to get grounds to force people to upgrade to newer homes (which do look a lot nicer, but I'm not taking out a loan to replace my trailer while I'm still paying on the old one!)

She figures if she can force people to get rid of the oldest homes, the people left over will all be in newer, nicer homes (or will sell to people who CAN afford such things) and they'll squawk less when/if she ups the space rental.

CalNRA
03-24-2007, 12:40 AM
Many people I know who are anti-gun share a common trait: they live/want to live in gated communities with a heavy HOA presence so they are protected by a private army, so to speak.

I fully agree with the notion that a man's house is his castle and he can do what he wants with it. THe bizarre occurences that we all know of HOAs are killing America as we know it. What are the chance that the HOAs will outlaw guns? at the rate it's going soon enough.

Saying people are lazy for not going to these silly meetings is outragously demanding of everyone. A man's house is his house is his house, like the 2nd Amendment, it shouldn't be up for debate. The protection of individual rights and property rights doesn't stop at having them, but also how to exercise them. Sure we can still OWN guns in california, but use or heck, CARRY it in any manner that your HOA and DA does not like and you are in it like a paper tiger in a ****storm.

Believe it or not, many gun owners don't come from well-to-do backgrounds and are working class people and don't wear shiny shoes and Rolexes Bill. My Dad makes a decent living but remembers his working class rooms. SUre he owns a new car, but we also have a 57 Chevy that has much sentimental value to him sitting there. He refused to buy a house in and sort of HOA area because every last one of them wanted him to get rid of it. He was outraged that in America a bunch of rich commies were talling him that he couldn't keep his beloved green monster(think grave digger's inspiration) on his private property, if he were to buy a house there.

We live in the USA, last time I checked and to tell man what he can do with his hard earned house is beyond un-American. Simple as that.

Wow Bill, as one of the most aggressive activist on the forum, you work hard to protect your (our) 2A freedoms. On the other hand, you find it A-OK to remove your neighbor’s freedoms in order to protect the value of your investment. Let me use a line we use on those who want to take our 2A rights away: “How come you selectively choose which freedoms to protect?”

If I was your neighbor, wouldn’t you think that your gun hobby would endanger my property value? Next time an RE comes around with a potential customer introduce yourself as an avid gun owner – see if they ever come back again!
What would be too much regulation? Where do you draw the line at protecting the value of your community? Whites only? College educated only?

In all reality, I don’t care if folks choose to enter into an HOA. I do have a MAJOR problem with the fact that local governments all over have resorted to only approving HOA residential communities – therefore FORCING people to accept covenants unless they are willing to commute 3 hours into the desert.

And yes, I am willing to tolerate the one neighbour that may not keep his house in full cookie cutter mode for living in a place where individualism is allowed, people have active lives and it shows.

Did anyone else notice that it is the most upscale HOA regulated neighborhoods where people never talk to each other?

BTW, I am also a Ham Radio operator, so I don’t like the fact that most HOAs disallow antennas of any kind because they are an “eye sore”. But when natural disasters happen they all come knocking for communications support.

bwiese
03-24-2007, 2:02 AM
We live in the USA, last time I checked and to tell man what he can do with his hard earned house is beyond un-American. Simple as that.

Absolutely, and it's your free choice whether to buy a home in an HOA or not.

BTW, for those in condo/townhome situations HOAs are unavoidable since they are 'common interest associations'.

Before I bought my townhome I looked into the HOA and who was on the board, and I was satisfied. The management co we have is pretty good: not hyper nitpicky but understands that details are important.

It is unlikely that any propsective HOA bans of guns - that is, private inside activity - will stand, esp given the NRA win over HUD a few years ago. HOAs are more concerned with external appearances.

luvtolean
03-24-2007, 7:34 AM
In a condo situation, I can understand an HOA. But not for single family dwellings.

In most parts of California, you can still choose not to live in an area with an HOA pretty easily. However, BEWARE local codes, I lived in a craphole out in Riverside country that had very strict codes where the HOA enforcement ended up being the city. (and the rules didn't apply to the whole city, only the developments involving the contractor that played golf with, and added onto local politician's houses...stuff across the street from me didn't have the same codes) So now, instead of a ***** neighbor not letting you do things, it's a deputized ***** neighbor, and you have to goto court, in Long Beach, to sort out any problems. I rented a house out there to wait mine being built, and thank God I did. I was able to get my deposit back and leave that place in my vapor trails.

But in other states, TX for example, it is VERY difficult to buy a new house, at least in the areas I'm familiar with, and not buy into an HOA.

With the various problems older houses in TX have, such as being built without strict building codes, and with the serious mold problems they have there, buying a used house is a much less attractive option than in Cali too.