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Retriever Believer
01-26-2012, 4:38 PM
Someone I know (person A) bought a pistol a couple of years ago from the original purchaser (person B) of the gun. The gun was not "drosed" through an FFL. Now person A wants to sell the pistol legally to a third person. Will he have any problem since the gun was never registered in his ( person A's) name? Will there be any fall-back on the original purchaser ( person B) since he sold it without going through an FFL?

I apologize if this question has been asked and answered before.

Thank you.

ke6guj
01-26-2012, 4:55 PM
Someone I know (person A) bought a pistol a couple of years ago from the original purchaser (person B) of the gun. The gun was not "drosed" through an FFL. Now person A wants to sell the pistol legally to a third person. Will he have any problem since the gun was never registered in his ( person A's) name?
no.
Will there be any fall-back on the original purchaser ( person B) since he sold it without going through an FFL?
.no.

for the most part CADOJ knows that unpapered transfers happen and they can't really stop them. They just want the new transfer to be done legally through an FFL.

If they gave person A a hard time when he tried to legally PPT to buyer C, then Person A would then just do another paperless transfer and it would forever a unpapered gun. they don't want that.

Jeepers
01-26-2012, 5:04 PM
anyone know what the S.O.L. is on a "paperless" transfer ?

Librarian
01-26-2012, 5:31 PM
anyone know what the S.O.L. is on a "paperless" transfer ?

It's a misdemeanor - 3 years, IIRC. But worrying about a statute of limitations requires a crime first, and we strongly discourage folks from committing crimes in the first place.

Jeepers
01-26-2012, 5:34 PM
It's a misdemeanor - 3 years, IIRC. But worrying about a statute of limitations requires a crime first, and we strongly discourage folks from committing crimes in the first place.not worried myself but the OP said it was done "couple of years ago"

Mssr. Eleganté
01-27-2012, 11:50 AM
anyone know what the S.O.L. is on a "paperless" transfer ?

Some illegal paperless transfers are misdemeanors with a one year SOL. Some illegal paperless transfers are felonies with a three year SOL. Figuring out if an illegal paperless transfer is a felony or a misdemeanor is so complicated that I gave up trying to figure it out.

Eagerquest
04-02-2017, 9:28 AM
I noticed that the original thread question/answer was posted in 2012. Is this still valid information for 2017? Thanks.

ArmsUnlimited
04-04-2017, 8:01 AM
It is still valid information.

So long as the gun is not reported stolen there will be no issues on a PPT

rauldelga
04-04-2017, 1:58 PM
Does this apply to off roster hand guns as well? Example, friend moved into the state and illegally imported his handguns (didn't know the laws..just brought them over a few years ago). Should he decide to sell through an FFL PPT, i'd imagine he would get in trouble for bringing the firearms into California?

Librarian
04-04-2017, 3:02 PM
Does this apply to off roster hand guns as well? Example, friend moved into the state and illegally imported his handguns (didn't know the laws..just brought them over a few years ago). Should he decide to sell through an FFL PPT, i'd imagine he would get in trouble for bringing the firearms into California?

No, probably not.

Should register them when you get here, but see the wiki article on registration - http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php?title=Firearms_Registration

After about a hundred years of required registration - roughly 2091 for handguns, 2114 for long guns - it might be reasonable to expect guns to be registered.

He actually can register them 'late' without penalty.

TJW
04-04-2017, 7:17 PM
Does this apply to off roster hand guns as well? Example, friend moved into the state and illegally imported his handguns (didn't know the laws..just brought them over a few years ago). Should he decide to sell through an FFL PPT, i'd imagine he would get in trouble for bringing the firearms into California?



Nope

TJW
04-04-2017, 7:18 PM
It is still valid information.

So long as the gun is not reported stolen there will be no issues on a PPT

Yup

Cokebottle
04-04-2017, 7:39 PM
It is still valid information.

So long as the gun is not reported stolen there will be no issues on a PPT
This is the only concern.

If Party "B" finds out that "A" sold the gun and wanted first crack at it, since the transfer was not documented, he COULD potentially report it stolen, then Party "A" and the new owner have a problem.

While I certainly prefer and support free-state FTF transfers, the DROS does afford some protection that you don't normally have with a private property sale.

CSACANNONEER
04-04-2017, 7:44 PM
not worried myself but the OP said it was done "couple of years ago"

Well, just 3 1/2 years ago, paperless transfers of C&R long guns were perfectly legal in CA. So, maybe "a couple" was 3-5 years ago?????

ArmsUnlimited
04-09-2017, 12:37 AM
There is NO legal requirement to register guns when you move into CA, keyword is "voluntary" registration. (do not bring assault weapons into CA)

edgerly779
04-09-2017, 12:41 AM
^^^ Wrong must register.

kemasa
04-09-2017, 9:33 AM
There is NO legal requirement to register guns when you move into CA, keyword is "voluntary" registration. (do not bring assault weapons into CA)

Please see CA PC 27560, which is not a suggestion.

While there are other options other than registering the firearms, so you statement is technically correct, the other options mean that the person no longer has the firearms.

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=27560&lawCode=PEN



Penal Code - PEN
PART 6. CONTROL OF DEADLY WEAPONS [16000 - 34370]
( Part 6 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

TITLE 4. FIREARMS [23500 - 34370]
( Title 4 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

DIVISION 6. SALE, LEASE, OR TRANSFER OF FIREARMS [26500 - 28490]
( Division 6 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

CHAPTER 4. Crimes Relating to Sale, Lease, or Transfer of Firearms [27500 - 28000]
( Chapter 4 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )


ARTICLE 1. Crimes Relating to Sale, Lease, or Transfer of Firearms [27500 - 27590]
( Article 1 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )


27560.

(a) Within 60 days of bringing a handgun, and commencing January 1, 2014, any firearm, into this state, a personal firearm importer shall do one of the following:

(1) Forward by prepaid mail or deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report prescribed by the department including information concerning that individual and a description of the firearm in question.

(2) Sell or transfer the firearm in accordance with the provisions of Section 27545 or in accordance with the provisions of an exemption from Section 27545.

(3) Sell or transfer the firearm to a dealer licensed pursuant to Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2.

(4) Sell or transfer the firearm to a sheriff or police department.

(b) If all of the following requirements are satisfied, the personal firearm importer shall have complied with the provisions of this section:

(1) The personal firearm importer sells or transfers the firearm pursuant to Section 27545.

(2) The sale or transfer cannot be completed by the dealer to the purchaser or transferee.

(3) The firearm can be returned to the personal firearm importer.

(c) (1) The provisions of this section are cumulative and shall not be construed as restricting the application of any other law.

(2) However, an act or omission punishable in different ways by this article and different provisions of the Penal Code shall not be punished under more than one provision.

(d) The department shall conduct a public education and notification program regarding this section to ensure a high degree of publicity of the provisions of this section.

(e) As part of the public education and notification program described in this section, the department shall do all of the following:

(1) Work in conjunction with the Department of Motor Vehicles to ensure that any person who is subject to this section is advised of the provisions of this section, and provided with blank copies of the report described in paragraph (1) of subdivision (a), at the time when that person applies for a California driver’s license or registers a motor vehicle in accordance with the Vehicle Code.

(2) Make the reports referred to in paragraph (1) of subdivision (a) available to dealers licensed pursuant to Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2.

(3) Make the reports referred to in paragraph (1) of subdivision (a) available to law enforcement agencies.

(4) Make persons subject to the provisions of this section aware of all of the following:

(A) The report referred to in paragraph (1) of subdivision (a) may be completed at either a law enforcement agency or the licensed premises of a dealer licensed pursuant to Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2.

(B) It is advisable to do so for the sake of accuracy and completeness of the report.

(C) Before transporting a firearm to a law enforcement agency to comply with subdivision (a), the person should give notice to the law enforcement agency that the person is doing so.

(D) In any event, the handgun should be transported unloaded and in a locked container and a firearm that is not a handgun should be transported unloaded.

(f) Any costs incurred by the department to implement this section shall be absorbed by the department within its existing budget and the fees in the Dealers’ Record of Sale Special Account allocated for implementation of subdivisions (d) and (e) of this section pursuant to Section 28235.
(Amended by Stats. 2011, Ch. 745, Sec. 27. Effective January 1, 2012.)

ArmsUnlimited
04-09-2017, 4:10 PM
There is no legal consequence for not registering. There is no law requiring registration. As shown above by Kemasa


^^^ Wrong must register.

Cokebottle
04-09-2017, 4:19 PM
There is NO legal requirement to register guns when you move into CA, keyword is "voluntary" registration. (do not bring assault weapons into CA)
There WAS no legal requirement to register long guns when you moved into CA. That has not been the case since 2014.

All guns brought into California by new residents must be registered.

All guns brought into California by a current resident who (somehow) legally acquired them out of state must be shipped in through an FFL, and the roster applies.

kemasa
04-09-2017, 4:28 PM
There is no legal consequence for not registering. There is no law requiring registration. As shown above by Kemasa

Huh? Why do you think that a person could violate the CA PC and that there would be no legal consequences? Now, it is not likely that the person would get caught, but if they do ...

rock3ralex
04-10-2017, 2:48 PM
I have sold a long gun last year that was purchased long before long gun registration happened and didn't have any issues. Should be the same for handguns.

ArmsUnlimited
04-10-2017, 3:27 PM
Show me where it says and what it says happens to a person moving INTO California from another state with handguns that he/she fails to register

Burbur
04-10-2017, 11:53 PM
Show me where it says and what it says happens to a person moving INTO California from another state with handguns that he/she fails to register

In plain English, CA PC 27560(a) offers 4 options that must occur within 60 days of bringing a personally owned firearm into California

(1) Register it
(2) PPT it
(3) Sell it to a dealer
(4) Sell (or give it) to the police

Kemasa kindly posted the text of the law above.

Furthermore:
First offense on failure to report is a misdemeanor. PC 27590(a)
(a) Except as provided in subdivision (b), (c), or (e), a violation of this article is a misdemeanor.

Second, third and subsequent convictions are feolnies. PC 27590(b)2
(b) If any of the following circumstances apply, a violation of this article is punishable by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170 for two, three, or four years.
(2) If the defendant has a prior conviction of violating the provisions, other than Section 27535, Section 27560 involving a firearm that is not a handgun, or Section 27565 involving a firearm that is not a handgun, of this article or former Section 12100 of this code, as Section 12100 read at any time from when it was enacted by Section 3 of Chapter 1386 of the Statutes of 1988 to when it was repealed by Section 18 of Chapter 23 of the Statutes of 1994, or Section 8101 of the Welfare and Institutions Code. -

But, there is no penalty for reporting past the 60 day time period. PC 27570

And it appears there is a three year statute of limitation, as is standard with misdemeanors that don't have special circumstances

ArmsUnlimited
04-11-2017, 7:03 AM
Well there is your answer to the original question of the thread.

You provided 4 options, per PC, for "unregistered" guns brought into California, #2 being PPT it.

Cokebottle
04-11-2017, 6:48 PM
Well there is your answer to the original question of the thread.

You provided 4 options, per PC, for "unregistered" guns brought into California, #2 being PPT it.
That is exactly what Kemasa said originally.
Yes, there are options to registering, but none involve keeping the gun.

PPTing it is not keeping it... Which is what the OP is asking, and yes, it is perfectly legal.

ArmsUnlimited
04-12-2017, 10:31 PM
Notice in their URL how it says volreg (short for voluntary registration)

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/volreg.pdf

Registration for handguns that you've legally owned/acquired before 1991 is not required.

Registration for handguns for those who moved into CA with them before 1 Jan 1998 is not required.

Registration for handguns for those who moved into CA on/after Jan 1 1998 is required within 60 days of moving into the state.

NO proof of registration is required to be presented at time of PPT, any dealer (and we have heard of at least one in the SoCal area) who tells you otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about

kemasa
04-13-2017, 10:25 AM
Voluntary is not quite accurate.

I am not sure of why any FFL would demand proof, especially when you consider that the firearm could have been acquired prior to any required registration, plus it is none of their business. I suspect it is more of a stunt to not do a PPT.