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View Full Version : Type 07 FFL, FAET, and ITAR


echoarms
01-26-2012, 5:02 PM
I understand that I need an 07 FFL to even paint a gun to sell it. I understand that there is a 50 gun exemption for the FAET. I understand that ITAR registration is $2250 and pretty much necessary to manufacture guns. My question is this:

Does ATF's definition of manufacturing apply to FAET or ITAR? Do they have their own definitions that make a little more sense? For example, if I wanted to buy Glocks, switch the barrels out, and resell them, would I need to pay FAET or register with ITAR?

Table Rock Arms
01-26-2012, 6:58 PM
I understand that I need an 07 FFL to even paint a gun to sell it. I understand that there is a 50 gun exemption for the FAET. I understand that ITAR registration is $2250 and pretty much necessary to manufacture guns. My question is this:

Does ATF's definition of manufacturing apply to FAET or ITAR? Do they have their own definitions that make a little more sense? For example, if I wanted to buy Glocks, switch the barrels out, and resell them, would I need to pay FAET or register with ITAR?

You can do that with an 01 FFL. There was a ruling on this from ATF a while back. If you go to the link below you can find it about 1/4 the way down the page.

Ryan

Munk
01-26-2012, 8:21 PM
You can do that with an 01 FFL. There was a ruling on this from ATF a while back. If you go to the link below you can find it about 1/4 the way down the page.

Ryan

ATF basically said you can do "manufacturing" operations infrequently with your 01 FFL; but that once you hit 50, you're in the "business" of manufacturing and need the other license.

This is based on my reading of their memos... i spend several hours reading them the other day, some of them were very relevant to my interest in getting a T/C Encore. My bare frame that i'd like to order is an "other" right now. To turn it into a pistol, it needs to be assembled into one. For a dealer to do this, they need to "manufacture" it, by assembling it. An 01FFL can do this up to 49 times in a year. An 07 can always do it. If I buy a frame that's already considered a pistol, adding the barrel would NOT be manufacturing, and wouldn't hit on the 49 count per year.

efillc
01-26-2012, 8:24 PM
Gunsmithing vs Manufacturing, per the ATF:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/manufacturers.html#dealer-gunsmithing

ATF-TTB (Tax & Trade Bureau) is responsible for collecting FAET. So yes, they do define "manufacturing".

Department of State writes the International Trafficking in Arms Regulations (ITAR), and DHS/ICE is responsible for investigating violations. DoS uses the ATF's definition of manufacturer.

efillc
01-26-2012, 8:29 PM
ATF basically said you can do "manufacturing" operations infrequently with your 01 FFL; but that once you hit 50, you're in the "business" of manufacturing and need the other license.
False. The 50-gun exemption for whether or not a licensed manufacture has to pay FAET has absolutely nothing to do with whether you have engaged in enough manufacturing activity to require a license.

#6 at the link I posted above reads:
A company acquires one receiver, assembles one firearm, and sells the firearm.

The company is not manufacturing firearms as a regular course of trade or business and is not engaged in the business of manufacturing firearms. This company does not need to be licensed as a manufacturer.

echoarms
01-26-2012, 8:57 PM
You can do that with an 01 FFL. There was a ruling on this from ATF a while back. If you go to the link below you can find it about 1/4 the way down the page.

Ryan
I missed the link. Can you repost?

Munk
01-27-2012, 12:43 AM
False. The 50-gun exemption for whether or not a licensed manufacture has to pay FAET has absolutely nothing to do with whether you have engaged in enough manufacturing activity to require a license.

#6 at the link I posted above reads:

Thanks for the correction.

Table Rock Arms
01-27-2012, 11:20 AM
I missed the link. Can you repost?

Sorry, think I forgot to put the link in. It's 2009-2.

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/

Table Rock Arms
01-27-2012, 11:44 AM
ATF basically said you can do "manufacturing" operations infrequently with your 01 FFL; but that once you hit 50, you're in the "business" of manufacturing and need the other license.

This is based on my reading of their memos... i spend several hours reading them the other day, some of them were very relevant to my interest in getting a T/C Encore. My bare frame that i'd like to order is an "other" right now. To turn it into a pistol, it needs to be assembled into one. For a dealer to do this, they need to "manufacture" it, by assembling it. An 01FFL can do this up to 49 times in a year. An 07 can always do it. If I buy a frame that's already considered a pistol, adding the barrel would NOT be manufacturing, and wouldn't hit on the 49 count per year.

ATF said that swapping out drop in parts is not manufacturing and that you do not need a manufacturing license to do so. Swapping out a barrel in a glock which was asked in the OP is not considered manufacturing.

An 01 can do manufacturing infrequently at the request of a customer. For example the customer brings his gun that he already owns in to a shop and asks them to perform something on the gun that is considered manufacturing. If a shop buys a gun and then performs the work and then offers it to the customer that is considered manufacturing and requires an 07 even if they do less than 50 per year. An 01 FFL could not buy 49 frames and build them into complete guns and offer them for sale.

EBR Works
01-27-2012, 1:58 PM
ATF said that swapping out drop in parts is not manufacturing and that you do not need a manufacturing license to do so. Swapping out a barrel in a glock which was asked in the OP is not considered manufacturing.

An 01 can do manufacturing infrequently at the request of a customer. For example the customer brings his gun that he already owns in to a shop and asks them to perform something on the gun that is considered manufacturing. If a shop buys a gun and then performs the work and then offers it to the customer that is considered manufacturing and requires an 07 even if they do less than 50 per year. An 01 FFL could not buy 49 frames and build them into complete guns and offer them for sale.

I think the highlighted portion would be considered gunsmithing, not manufacturing, since the client already owns the firearm.

echoarms
01-27-2012, 3:35 PM
ATF said that swapping out drop in parts is not manufacturing and that you do not need a manufacturing license to do so. Swapping out a barrel in a glock which was asked in the OP is not considered manufacturing.

An 01 can do manufacturing infrequently at the request of a customer. For example the customer brings his gun that he already owns in to a shop and asks them to perform something on the gun that is considered manufacturing. If a shop buys a gun and then performs the work and then offers it to the customer that is considered manufacturing and requires an 07 even if they do less than 50 per year. An 01 FFL could not buy 49 frames and build them into complete guns and offer them for sale.
Swapping barrels at the request of a customer is not manufacturing, but buying 20 Glocks, swapping all the barrels and then reselling them would be unfortunately.

efillc
01-27-2012, 5:53 PM
Swapping barrels at the request of a customer is not manufacturing, but buying 20 Glocks, swapping all the barrels and then reselling them would be unfortunately.
Why are you swapping the barrels?

ke6guj
01-27-2012, 5:59 PM
Why are you swapping the barrels?
probably to create a dimensionally-compliant Single-shot pistol, SSE.

echoarms
01-27-2012, 8:34 PM
Why are you swapping the barrels?
Because I think there is a good size market that would want a Glock without a factory barrel, they are known to create problems with lead bullets.