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View Full Version : ? about refinishing Krags


srk3006
01-25-2012, 6:41 PM
my friend has a nice little collection of trapdoors and krags he is thinking of selling, they are all beutiful because he has reblued and refinished them. does this really kill value? advise please

John Browning
01-25-2012, 6:42 PM
Yes, it really kills the value.

mosinnagantm9130
01-25-2012, 6:45 PM
Yes, it really kills the value.

By a lot...

John Browning
01-25-2012, 6:54 PM
By a lot...

Yep, it isn't a punching, or a kicking, it is a killing. By a lot.

dangerranger
01-25-2012, 7:18 PM
Yes and No. If a true collectable was refinished, its value would be conciderably less. But If we were talking about a rack grade beater refinishing it would not hurt its value. The beater would never have collector value anyway, so now you have a nice refinished rifle! not a collectable but a nice rifle to have, hold and shoot! Probably worth more than the beater. DR

John Browning
01-25-2012, 7:23 PM
Yes and No. If a true collectable was refinished, its value would be conciderably less. But If we were talking about a rack grade beater refinishing it would not hurt its value. The beater would never have collector value anyway, so now you have a nice refinished rifle! not a collectable but a nice rifle to have, hold and shoot! Probably worth more than the beater. DR

No way. A rack-grade beater in original military condition will still be worth more than any refinished rifle any day of the week. The least expensive rifles will always be the ones that have been refinished. You'd have to have a non-functional tomato stake original rifle to bring less than you'd get for a home refinish.

If I had to put a number on it, I'd say you lose a good 50% of the value of the rifle by refinishing. I'd happily shell out $1000 for a decent Krag or Trapdoor that hasn't been messed with. You'd have to cut that number in half to get me interested in one that had been reblued and so forth.

mosinnagantm9130
01-25-2012, 7:38 PM
No way. A rack-grade beater in original military condition will still be worth more than any refinished rifle any day of the week. The least expensive rifles will always be the ones that have been refinished. You'd have to have a non-functional tomato stake original rifle to bring less than you'd get for a home refinish.

This.^^

i think most milsurp collectors would agree with me when I say I'd rather have a beat up original rifle than a refinished one.

CEDaytonaRydr
01-26-2012, 11:00 AM
In almost every case, yes; it will kill the value. Now, if it was something pretty rare to begin with, it might kill the value less but it will still hurt. For example, if your friend has a Saddle-ring carbine Krag, it would still get a good price but nowhere near the price it would have got with an unaltered finish.

Before you buy any of those Krags (if you decide to), post some pictures. Some of us have pretty good knowledge about those rifles. We can tell you what you're looking at...

srk3006
01-26-2012, 3:50 PM
my friends feeling is that when you buy a old '57 chevy, the first thing you do is restore it, i appreciate this, and am not disagreeing with you learned rifleman, what i am curious about is the size of audience who might be interested? hard to get rid of? or popular, i will try to get pics from him and post, thanx for input!!

ElvenSoul
01-26-2012, 3:54 PM
He will be able to sell them, but not for anything close to the going value.

TheExpertish
01-26-2012, 4:00 PM
my friends feeling is that when you buy a old '57 chevy, the first thing you do is restore it, i appreciate this, and am not disagreeing with you learned rifleman, what i am curious about is the size of audience who might be interested? hard to get rid of? or popular, i will try to get pics from him and post, thanx for input!!

Refinished, they can carry some value if they're shooters. As collectables the value is pretty much gone. I personally prefer shooters. Everyone is different.

mosinnagantm9130
01-26-2012, 4:45 PM
my friends feeling is that when you buy a old '57 chevy, the first thing you do is restore it, i appreciate this, and am not disagreeing with you learned rifleman, what i am curious about is the size of audience who might be interested? hard to get rid of? or popular, i will try to get pics from him and post, thanx for input!!

Which go for more, mint original 57 chevys, or mint restored 57 chevys?

If the price is right, the audience could be rather large. They're still fine as shooters, but collectability is gone.

John Browning
01-26-2012, 7:08 PM
Which go for more, mint original 57 chevys, or mint restored 57 chevys?

If the price is right, the audience could be rather large. They're still fine as shooters, but collectability is gone.

Further, what is worth more, a Chevy restored to 100% factory correct condition by a pro or a garage job by a hobbiest? Unless your friend is named Doug Turnbull, he can expect less than you'd get for the roughest shootable condition rifle in the same model.

The value as a collector item is 100% gone and unrecoverable.

carnelianbay
01-26-2012, 10:16 PM
If someone wants a shooter or a wall hanger then it's more about function and ascetics than originality and will be priced accordingly (low).

If someone is in the market for a true collectable (and it's been "restored"), unless there is someone truly unique about it such as a documented KRAG Carbine or a documented Custer Era Trapdoor then they’ll walk away.

dangerranger
01-28-2012, 4:26 PM
Which go for more, mint original 57 chevys, or mint restored 57 chevys?

If the price is right, the audience could be rather large. They're still fine as shooters, but collectability is gone.


And there is the differance. we are talking about which would bring more an unrestored but drivable butt ugly 57 Chevy or a restored 57 with new paint and upolstry? those restored cars are gaining value every day. personaly Id take a restored shooter over a rack grade beater, but thats what fits my needs. DR

John Browning
01-28-2012, 5:22 PM
And there is the differance. we are talking about which would bring more an unrestored but drivable butt ugly 57 Chevy or a restored 57 with new paint and upolstry? those restored cars are gaining value every day. personaly Id take a restored shooter over a rack grade beater, but thats what fits my needs. DR

Wrong. Cars are not guns. When you do ANY restoration work to a collectible firearm, it is worth less. You'll never see restored guns appreciate in value because the restoration kills the collector value. The value of a firearm goes like this, from most to least valuable:

1. Original parts, mint shape
2. Original parts, any shape
67. Restored by a home hobby gunsmith

There is no scenario where a restored gun is worth more to the collecting public at large, sans perhaps a Doug Turnbull resto job (4k plus in cost) on a collectible Winchester or Colt.

dangerranger
01-28-2012, 6:33 PM
Wrong. Cars are not guns. When you do ANY restoration work to a collectible firearm, it is worth less. You'll never see restored guns appreciate in value because the restoration kills the collector value. The value of a firearm goes like this, from most to least valuable:

1. Original parts, mint shape
2. Original parts, any shape
67. Restored by a home hobby gunsmith

There is no scenario where a restored gun is worth more to the collecting public at large, sans perhaps a Doug Turnbull resto job (4k plus in cost) on a collectible Winchester or Colt.

There again you are throwing Collectors, and public at large into the same bin. Just so we are on the same page I dont concider a rack grade rifle collectable. its already long past your #1 Original parts, Mint shape. DR

tankerman
01-28-2012, 7:15 PM
If he's looking to sell, I'm interested in a Trapdoor.
Doesn't matter that they've been refinished, and long as it sound. I'm looking for for one to take in the field for hunting.

mosinnagantm9130
01-28-2012, 11:00 PM
There again you are throwing Collectors, and public at large into the same bin. Just so we are on the same page I dont concider a rack grade rifle collectable. its already long past your #1 Original parts, Mint shape. DR

It's to #2, original parts, any shape.

Pretty much any antique, with the exception of some restored cars, follow the same rules for collectability.

bruceflinch
01-29-2012, 10:29 AM
I'd love me an inexpensive & pretty Trapdoor Wall Hanger.