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IrishPirate
01-24-2012, 12:29 PM
Been thinking for a while now about getting an 01FFL and running a business from my house. But....

Is there anything different about the process if I ONLY wanted to specialize in internet transfers and special orders? I would not have any stock of guns whatsoever, i would only facilitate transfers and special orders.

-i know i need to get a business license and they may not allow me to sell guns from my home
-i understand the financial costs of just getting the "OK" from the gov't to sell guns
-i understand that having people know where i live and that i sell guns from my house could be a bad thing


what i don't know is if this is possible to do without jumping through any extra hoops besides the licensing? Are there any problems that i'm not anticipating??

rbetts
01-24-2012, 5:31 PM
ATF requires inventory in order to get your FFL. You'd need to sell stuff as well. Biggest hurdle is your city.

Librarian
01-24-2012, 5:55 PM
Read the stickies at the top of the forum - lots of info about hoops.

Rigmarole
01-24-2012, 8:53 PM
ATF requires inventory in order to get your FFL. You'd need to sell stuff as well. Biggest hurdle is your city.

There is no ATF requirement to have inventory as an FFL:


(C1) Who can get a license?
ATF will approve the application if the applicant:

• Is 21 years or more of age;

• Is not prohibited from shipping, transporting, receiving or possessing firearms or ammunition;

• Has not willfully violated the GCA or its regulations;

• Has not willfully failed to disclose material information or willfully made false statements concerning material facts in connection with his application;

• Has premises for conducting business or collecting; and

• The applicant certifies that:

(1) the business to be conducted under the license is not prohibited by State or local law in the place where the licensed premises is located;

(2) within 30 days after the application is approved the business will comply with the requirements of State and local law applicable to the conduct of the business;

(3) the business will not be conducted under the license until the requirements of State and local law applicable to the business have been met;

(4) the applicant has sent or delivered a form to the chief law enforcement officer where the premises is located notifying the officer that the applicant intends to apply for a license; and

(5) secure gun storage or safety devices will be available at any place in which firearms are sold under the license to persons who are not licensees (“secure gun storage or safety device” is defined in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(34)).

[18 U.S.C. 923(d)(1), 27 CFR 478.47(b)]


You have to be able to comply with all of the zoning requirements for home-based businesses in your area (the ATF will check) along with all state and local laws.

We are a home-based FFL in Reno, NV and I can imagine that we had less hoops to jump through compared to most areas in CA. At the same time, I wish you the best of luck.

Oh... and don't quit your day job if/when you do get your FFL at home. :thumbsup:

kemasa
01-24-2012, 9:58 PM
The list of requirements is not quite accurate since you are required to run a business, not just getting an 01 FFL for personal collecting. There is no requirement for an inventory as you say.

Each city is different in terms of how easy it is and it can change over time.

IrishPirate
01-25-2012, 7:57 AM
Read the stickies at the top of the forum - lots of info about hoops.

that's where i went first, but i didn't see anything about my situation.

I definitely wont be quitting my day job, and no, this isn't to expand my collection, i already know that an 01FFL is a license to sell guns, not collect them. I'm trying to figure out how much of a hassle it will be to be able to do internet orders and transfers for people because my plan is to only charge $40 for internet orders so that people can actually afford to buy things online.

You guys might think that's stupid, but i have my reasons for it.

Also, does the ATF have stricter requirements on Safe's for FFL's or is it the same as for the safe affidavit when you buy a gun??

tenpercentfirearms
01-25-2012, 8:58 AM
that's where i went first, but i didn't see anything about my situation.

I definitely wont be quitting my day job, and no, this isn't to expand my collection, i already know that an 01FFL is a license to sell guns, not collect them. I'm trying to figure out how much of a hassle it will be to be able to do internet orders and transfers for people because my plan is to only charge $40 for internet orders so that people can actually afford to buy things online.

You guys might think that's stupid, but i have my reasons for it.

Because you enjoy staying busy and donating your time. I too used to think I was going to get all of this business because I would work for cheap. When I got all of this business for working for cheap, I realized I actually enjoyed my free time more.

You aren't going to make much money in the gun business. Really the only reason I stick with it is because of all of the little benefits of owning a gun shop. Other than that, there are much more profitable businesses to be in with much, much less paperwork.

IrishPirate
01-25-2012, 10:32 AM
Because you enjoy staying busy and donating your time. I too used to think I was going to get all of this business because I would work for cheap. When I got all of this business for working for cheap, I realized I actually enjoyed my free time more.

You aren't going to make much money in the gun business. Really the only reason I stick with it is because of all of the little benefits of owning a gun shop. Other than that, there are much more profitable businesses to be in with much, much less paperwork.

cliche' as it might sound, i'm not in it for the money. It really would be for the perks of being able to help family/friends get guns for cheap, tax write offs, and make ordering guns online easier for people in my area. Fam/friends would probably get things right at cost, including transfers, and calgunners or acquaintances would get a good deal....like cost + 5%-10% on orders, and transfers at or below what DOJ allows FFL's to charge. Only downside for others is they'd have to work with my schedule since this would be a side "business". I'm not trying to set anything up for success....just enough to make it worth my while and help some people out.

I know if i focused on making money, it would screw me over because i don't have the capital to invest in a business with the intention of growth. I might not even have the time to do this for anyone other than family. My wife is an ETL with Target so i know she would be able to help me forecast what we'd need to make in order to gain back the investment of licenses, etc.

it might just be a feel good dream, but it's something i'd like to make happen if it turns out that it's doable.

TheExpertish
01-25-2012, 1:13 PM
Call your city planning office first and see what their zoning allows. That will give you your yay or nay.

crazychinaman
01-25-2012, 2:41 PM
certain cities say no if kids are in the house.Also some cities required a seperate room for the safe and for all transactions seperate from the house/.

tenpercentfirearms
01-25-2012, 2:45 PM
Only downside for others is they'd have to work with my schedule since this would be a side "business". I'm not trying to set anything up for success....just enough to make it worth my while and help some people out.

Any kitchen table guys want to chime in on their experience with developing a customer base and keeping them in line with your schedule?

IrishPirate
01-25-2012, 3:05 PM
I know the city is the first and probably biggest hurdle, but i want to have my ducks in a row, or at least know what order they should be in, so that if Roseville says OK, i can move on without too much waiting.


Could HOA regulations stop the city/DOJ/ATF issuing me the licenses i need??

tenpercentfirearms
01-25-2012, 8:24 PM
Could HOA regulations stop the city/DOJ/ATF issuing me the licenses i need??

It could. Even if it can't what are the consequences for violating HOA?

IrishPirate
01-25-2012, 8:47 PM
It could. Even if it can't what are the consequences for violating HOA?

I can't remember the exact language, but I know there's provisions in our CC&R's pertaining to home businesses. I'm pretty sure my HOA just wont let you advertise on/outside your house, but they can't really stop you from doing whatever you want inside your own home. I wouldn't tell them I'm running a business, but if the city did its own digging and read something wrong/found some BS provision in the CC&R's, would that be enough to deny me a license???

Hopefully I'll be out of this house by the time I'm ready to get an 01FFL, and my new house WILL NOT have an HOA!!!!

gatesbox
01-25-2012, 8:59 PM
I don't know if this helps but you are more or less describing the business that Roger Baker runs known as Rogers Relics..... He and his wife work out of their home (garage actually) by appointment and only do transfers. I had to use them once because my go to FFL would not accept receipt of two single action pistols direct from the non licensee seller.

Nice guy, might be worth giving a call or sending an email after you do some more research...

h0use
01-25-2012, 9:16 PM
what if your using it for gunsmithing. and dont want type7 ffl. will type1 work for gunsmithing?

efillc
01-26-2012, 5:41 AM
Any kitchen table guys want to chime in on their experience with developing a customer base and keeping them in line with your schedule?
Developing a customer base isn't difficult, especially if you're doing cheap transfers. If you put your info into sites like Bud's, GunBroker, etc as a transfer FFL with low rates, you will get found quickly.

OTOH keeping customers in line with your schedule is another matter. We've had people knocking on the door at 7 a.m. and calls as late as 11 p.m.

efillc
01-26-2012, 5:42 AM
what if your using it for gunsmithing. and dont want type7 ffl. will type1 work for gunsmithing?
A Type 01 will work for gunsmithing. Just make sure you don't cross the (poorly-defined, ever-moving) line into Type 07 territory.

echoarms
01-26-2012, 9:34 AM
Developing a customer base isn't difficult, especially if you're doing cheap transfers. If you put your info into sites like Bud's, GunBroker, etc as a transfer FFL with low rates, you will get found quickly.

OTOH keeping customers in line with your schedule is another matter. We've had people knocking on the door at 7 a.m. and calls as late as 11 p.m.
How do you get listed as a transfer FFL?

D4ZORT
01-26-2012, 9:41 AM
Also finding a merchant (credit card) who allows you to sell guns is another issue. I called around and many said no go if you sell firearms.

efillc
01-26-2012, 10:26 AM
How do you get listed as a transfer FFL?

http://www.gunbroker.com/FFL/FFLSignUp.aspx

http://www.fflfinder.com/

For Bud's we had to email over our FFL and fill out another form to get signed up.

IrishPirate
01-26-2012, 2:17 PM
I don't know if this helps but you are more or less describing the business that Roger Baker runs known as Rogers Relics..... He and his wife work out of their home (garage actually) by appointment and only do transfers. I had to use them once because my go to FFL would not accept receipt of two single action pistols direct from the non licensee seller.

Nice guy, might be worth giving a call or sending an email after you do some more research...

thank you, i will look into that and try to get a hold of them :thumbsup:

Developing a customer base isn't difficult, especially if you're doing cheap transfers. If you put your info into sites like Bud's, GunBroker, etc as a transfer FFL with low rates, you will get found quickly.

OTOH keeping customers in line with your schedule is another matter. We've had people knocking on the door at 7 a.m. and calls as late as 11 p.m.

I thought about that, and i think i'd have to add a 2nd/3rd phone line that can be turned on/off when i'm not open for business. Not really sure how to avoid the random customer showing up at my house, but that's something i would DEFINITELY figure out before hand!!

Also finding a merchant (credit card) who allows you to sell guns is another issue. I called around and many said no go if you sell firearms.

everyone i've talked to has said that credit card companies will give a machine to anyone with a business license since they charge them money to have them. so even if they aren't making sales, they're paying to have the machine. I could probably get around it by going cash/money order only for a while, but a CC machine could end up being a good investment if it turns out that i have more business than expected. we'll just have to see.

Santa Cruz Armory
01-26-2012, 2:21 PM
Because you enjoy staying busy and donating your time. I too used to think I was going to get all of this business because I would work for cheap. When I got all of this business for working for cheap, I realized I actually enjoyed my free time more.

You aren't going to make much money in the gun business. Really the only reason I stick with it is because of all of the little benefits of owning a gun shop. Other than that, there are much more profitable businesses to be in with much, much less paperwork.

Truer words were never spoken...

ke6guj
01-26-2012, 2:29 PM
everyone i've talked to has said that credit card companies will give a machine to anyone with a business license since they charge them money to have them. so even if they aren't making sales, they're paying to have the machine. I could probably get around it by going cash/money order only for a while, but a CC machine could end up being a good investment if it turns out that i have more business than expected. we'll just have to see.

they tell you that now, but many gun shops have had their merchant accounts terminated because they sell guns.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2008/01/citifirst-data-anti-gun-policies-stir-controversy-calls-for-boycott/
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-632882.html

TheExpertish
01-26-2012, 2:49 PM
I know the city is the first and probably biggest hurdle, but i want to have my ducks in a row, or at least know what order they should be in, so that if Roseville says OK, i can move on without too much waiting.


Could HOA regulations stop the city/DOJ/ATF issuing me the licenses i need??
Read your HOA, but mostly they don't have any say in what you can and cannot do with a business that is permissible in that city.
Also finding a merchant (credit card) who allows you to sell guns is another issue. I called around and many said no go if you sell firearms.
It can be, but there are plenty out there who do. Also, most don't know what the hell they are talking about.

Rigmarole
01-27-2012, 10:13 PM
The ATF will check to make sure you are not violating any legal prohibitions that would prevent you from conducting business at your location. For our home-based FFL, they did look to make sure we didn't have an HOA that would have prohibited a home-based business.

After doing some research, we have found that the safest way to go with credit card processing is through Payment Alliance. They are actually the NRA and NSSF endorsed merchant processor. With anyone else, you may be taking a risk.

Getting listed as a transfer dealer is easy once you have your 01 FFL. We get most of our transfers that aren't referrals or repeat customers from Gunbroker.

Also, five minutes of looking into the Roseville city business license rules tells me that you are already going to have some problems. The ATF requires that you conduct your business at your licensed premises (and allows it at gun shows as well). Roseville will not allow you to operate a home-based business where customers come to the house without a seperate "Administrative Permit" which involves a public hearing. What will your neighbors have to say about you opening a gun business in the neighborhood?

Start here and dig deeper on your own:

http://www.roseville.ca.us/ed/business_assistance/how_to_guides.asp#home

It still may be possible, but it looks like you have some hurdles ahead. Good luck.

IrishPirate
01-29-2012, 4:19 PM
The ATF will check to make sure you are not violating any legal prohibitions that would prevent you from conducting business at your location. For our home-based FFL, they did look to make sure we didn't have an HOA that would have prohibited a home-based business.

After doing some research, we have found that the safest way to go with credit card processing is through Payment Alliance. They are actually the NRA and NSSF endorsed merchant processor. With anyone else, you may be taking a risk.

Getting listed as a transfer dealer is easy once you have your 01 FFL. We get most of our transfers that aren't referrals or repeat customers from Gunbroker.

Also, five minutes of looking into the Roseville city business license rules tells me that you are already going to have some problems. The ATF requires that you conduct your business at your licensed premises (and allows it at gun shows as well). Roseville will not allow you to operate a home-based business where customers come to the house without a seperate "Administrative Permit" which involves a public hearing. What will your neighbors have to say about you opening a gun business in the neighborhood?

Start here and dig deeper on your own:

http://www.roseville.ca.us/ed/business_assistance/how_to_guides.asp#home

It still may be possible, but it looks like you have some hurdles ahead. Good luck.

looks like the administrative permit wouldn't be impossible to obtain, but what bothers me is this:
Limitation on Use
Home Occupations shall be permitted in a dwelling, so long as the maximum cumulative impact of all such businesses shall not exceed the limits set forth in this Section for a single Home Occupation. The following uses or activities are prohibited as Home Occupations:


Fire arms and ammunition sales;
Kennel services;
Retail or wholesale sales with transfer of products to the buyer at the residential site. The operation of a Home Occupation shall not necessitate the rendering of services, merchandise sales, or distribution of merchandise to customers or clients on the premises, with the exception of private instruction;
Vehicle or vehicle body, repair or painting; or
Any use or activity that affects the character of the surrounding residential neighborhood by generating more noise, odors, vehicles, storage, or traffic than would be normally expected in a residential zone.


it looks like Roseville wont let you conduct any FFL business from your home, but perhaps the key word there is "sales". Do transfers count as sales?? I would think no since it's not something from your inventory, but if the sale happened in my house, then i guess it would be a grey area...

I definitely don't think that it would work out very well in my current house, but if i move I'll keep all this in mind. Or perhaps i'll try to find a REALLY small store front

GoingQuiet
01-29-2012, 9:59 PM
ATF requires inventory in order to get your FFL. You'd need to sell stuff as well. Biggest hurdle is your city.

I don't think this is the case. ATF requires you to run a business, it does not stipulate that you have to have inventory.

I can tell you when I started out, I had nothing.

Rudolf the Red
01-30-2012, 8:21 PM
I went to gun shows with a few guns for sale, talked my *** off and gave out hundreds of business cards. All my business is from those cards and referrals. I have a couple customers a month after 3.5 years. I have one customer that has resulted in four new customers just from his mouth. Together, they have bought 11 guns so far. Just from one business card last March. I am moving soon and may have to give up my business. Finding a landlord favorable to an FFL is not easy.

Rigmarole
01-30-2012, 10:46 PM
looks like the administrative permit wouldn't be impossible to obtain, but what bothers me is this:


it looks like Roseville wont let you conduct any FFL business from your home, but perhaps the key word there is "sales". Do transfers count as sales?? I would think no since it's not something from your inventory, but if the sale happened in my house, then i guess it would be a grey area...

I definitely don't think that it would work out very well in my current house, but if i move I'll keep all this in mind. Or perhaps i'll try to find a REALLY small store front

It sounds like you are out of luck. I don't think the ATF is going to look at those local rules and still issue you a license.

D4ZORT
01-30-2012, 11:26 PM
It's a great question. I don't know how any of the home base FFL do it from the house and have "walk-in" traffic in a residential area? 99.9% of the cities don't allow this. Someone care to share how they do the transfers with people coming over?

halifax
01-31-2012, 5:08 AM
It's a great question. I don't know how any of the home base FFL do it from the house and have "walk-in" traffic in a residential area? 99.9% of the cities don't allow this. Someone care to share how they do the transfers with people coming over?

For the most part, it's not a steady stream of unexpected customers like a B&M store. One or two people a day, maybe, for me and I know when they are coming because we have been in communication. From the outside, it looks less suspicious than the crackhouse down the street. :eek:

Rigmarole
02-01-2012, 2:21 PM
It's a great question. I don't know how any of the home base FFL do it from the house and have "walk-in" traffic in a residential area? 99.9% of the cities don't allow this. Someone care to share how they do the transfers with people coming over?

This works just like the grandma down the street giving piano lessons out of her home. She sees one client at a time and they come in by appointment only. It is the same thing with transfers.

Most cities also have rules restricting business signage, on street parking, delivery trucks larger than a standard delivery van, etc. for home-based businesses.

bebe67
02-02-2012, 2:54 PM
THIS IS THE LETTER I SHOT OFF TO THE CITY TODAY AND I REMOVED NAMES TO PROTECT MYSELF,

Dear Mr. Patlan,

I am writing in response to a phone conversation with one of The City City Hall employee on 02/1/2011 regarding my city permit that I filed for a home office business for the sale of firearms. This is my business model for more clarity. Please review California Penal Code 12070 and 12071 http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12070.php and how these Articles apply to my virtual (internet) business. These two sections fit my business model perfectly and verifies my intentions to run a virtual internet business utilizing a Federal Firearms License. As both codes state an individual or group may not conduct business without a Federal Firearms License. I have applied for my Certificate of Eligibility with the California Department of Justice Bureau of Firearms. I currently hold a Federal Firearms License 03 which is a collector of Curio and Relics Federal Firearms License and not able to deal with this Federal Firearms license and this is why I am applying for a dealer’s license to establish a business and provide for my family. A City Business License is the most important part of this process because without the city permit, The State of California will not allow a person to deal in firearms. Once I receive the business license I can proceed with applying for the dealer’s license and once approved I will be in full compliance and accuracy of Articles 12070 and 12071 and any other additional requirements set forth by the Federal Government and State of California as required by all FFL holders and California Certificate of Eligibility holders.

A first step in conducting our internet business is establishing my business name Armory with The City and my intent to operate an internet business. This is critical because part of the application process for a Federal Firearms License according to the ATF “TO RECEIVE A LICENSE AS A DEALER, IMPORTER, OR MANUFACTURER OF FIREARMS, YOU MUST INTEND TO ENGAGE IN A FIREARMS BUSINESS.” I fully intend to engage in the Internet business and participate in local Gun Shows utilizing my Federal Firearms License, Certificate of Eligibility from the State of California and Business License for Gun Shows all within compliance of Articles 12070 and 12071.

12070. (a) No person shall sell, lease, or transfer firearms unless he or she has been issued a license pursuant to section 12071. Any person violating this section is guilty of a misdemeanor.
12071. (a)(1) As used in this chapter, the term “license,” “person licensed pursuant to section 12071,” or regulatory or business license, or licenses required by local government. (C) A valid seller’s permit issued by the State Board of Equalization. (D) A Certificate of Eligibility issued by the Department of Justice pursuant to paragraph (4). (E) A license issued in the format prescribed by paragraph (6). (F) Is among those recorded in the centralized list specified in subdivision (e). (2) The duly constituted licensing authority of a city, county , or a city and county shall accept applications for, and may grant licenses permitting, licensees to sell firearms at retail within the city, county or city and county. The duly constituted licensing authority shall inform applicants who are denied licenses of the reason for the denial in writing. (3) No license shall be granted to any applicant who fails to provide a copy of his or her valid firearms license, valid sellers permit issued by the State Board of Equalization, and the certificate of eligibility described above.
Mr. Patlan your hesitancy in issuing my permit seems to be focused on the fact that I am the first to have applied for this type of license in The City . The requirement for the city permit to state retail sales of firearms from my home address is required to receive my Federal Firearms License but the United States Code also provides definitions, and exceptions, that will allow me to obtain my FFL, without ever conducting retail sales, physically at my residence located at Just like I stated on my city permit application (Online Sales).

The Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms issuance of my FFL license is wholly separate and apart from my Home Business Permit. I also wanted to note, that I will comply 100% with the requirements of The City , to obtain my business license permit.
As an FFL license holder is permitted to conduct business away from his or her licensed location at gun shows within the state where FFL license is held.
As I mentioned I will be conducting business online and at gun shows and The United States Code provides, and the ATF views the gun show as an extension of my business location. Please see exert below from the federal regulations issued by the ATF governing the FFL license holder. Federal Regulations, ATF part 478-Commerce in Firearms and Ammunition.
Section 478.100 Conduct of business away from licensed premises. (a) (1) A licensee may conduct business temporarily at gun show or event as defined in paragraph (b) if the gun show or event is located in the same State specified on the license: Provided that such business shall not be conducted from any motorized or towed vehicle. The premises of the gun show or event which the licensee conducts business shall be considered part of the licensed premises. (emphasis added) Accordingly, no separate fee or license is required for the gun show or event locations.
However, licensees shall comply with comply with the provisions of section 478.91 relating to posting of licenses (or copy thereof) while conducting business at the gun show or event.
Additionally, if you review the ATF’s legal definition of a “dealer” below, or FFL Licensee, you will find no mention of, or requirement of retail sales or required retail space or commercially zoned business to obtain or maintain an FFL License. Please see exert below from the federal regulations issued by the ATF governing the FFL license holder, Gun Control Act 18 U.S.C.

Chapter 44
Dealer. Any person engaged in the business of selling firearms at wholesale or retail; any person engaged in the business of repairing firearms or of making or fitting special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms; or any person who is a pawnbroker.
The term shall include any person who engages in such business or occupation on a part time basis.
The term “dealer” is defined at 18 U.S.C. section 921.(a)(11)(A) to include any person engaged in the business of selling firearms at wholesale or retail. The term “engaged” in the business” as applied to a dealer in firearms means a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms. A dealer can be “engaged in the business” without taking title to the firearm that are sold.
I hope this letter better clarifies your concerns and my business model is to sell firearms at gun shows, and online plus I would be able to supply our police department with weapons at a wholesale cost and savings to the citizens of . My legal counsel and I thoroughly reviewed the Federal ATF laws governing FFL dealers, and also thoroughly reviewed state laws and we are confident my business fully adheres to the requirements of The City of , federal and state laws. This is the same information I will provide to ATF during my on site interview, after which they will make their decision, as it relates to my application for a FFL.
These same issues have appeared from time to time, and have been resolved according to the sections of the United States Code that I have provided.
Thanks again for allowing me this opportunity to clarify my business model, and business operations, as well as, provide you the current law, as it relates to this matter. I would respectfully request that my Business License permit specifying “Retail sales of Firearms” be approved, so I can move on to the next application process, at your earliest convenience.

Very truly yours,

IrishPirate
02-02-2012, 4:59 PM
^^wow, looks like you covered your bases pretty well. What city are you in?

bebe67
02-02-2012, 6:05 PM
Your welcome to use it just put your info in.

bebe67
02-06-2012, 3:05 PM
Just got a call from zoning and my permit for retail sales of firearms was approved for my home base business. AJUA!!!!!!

halifax
02-06-2012, 3:55 PM
Just got a call from zoning and my permit for retail sales of firearms was approved for my home base business. AJUA!!!!!!

Biggest hurdle overcome. Best wishes and happy dealing.

:clap:

bebe67
02-06-2012, 4:17 PM
Agreed, you would figure the FFL would be the most difficult license to get but not in our state!! Now to decide if I want an FFL 01 or 07. Any info on the pro's and con's on the 07 would be appreciated and I know it cost less but are there additional fee's for being a manufacturer.

metalstorm999
02-06-2012, 5:58 PM
Agreed, you would figure the FFL would be the most difficult license to get but not in our state!! Now to decide if I want an FFL 01 or 07. Any info on the pro's and con's on the 07 would be appreciated and I know it cost less but are there additional fee's for being a manufacturer.

Congrats on the first step, I just went through the same issues with my city, and they finally came to an agreement that ATF regulations regarding sales/transfers of firearms superceded their home occupational permit conditions, so I'm gtg now.Anyways I tried for an 07 and my IOI told me no because the city won't allow manufacturing from the residence so he rescended my application for the 07 and resubmitted a new 01 for me when we had our interview. So what I'm getting at is, might not want to ruffle any more feathers over at the city by applying for a 07 (cause ATF will discuss the matter with them before your interview) I'm sticking with an 01 for now until I get a B&M shop then I'll go for an 07. Anyways best of luck to you and the business!

bebe67
02-06-2012, 8:47 PM
Thanks so true I guess I could always order the kits, sell it to them and they can give it back for gunsmithing.

bebe67
02-08-2012, 9:14 PM
Got my DBA and Sellers permit today, inching closer and closer..

kenko
02-09-2012, 3:41 PM
Nice to see your progress. This is something I have been thinking bout as well.

bebe67
02-09-2012, 9:13 PM
Mailed out my FFL application today and now the 60 days wait begins. I think my COE is going to take the longest out of all this crazy process, Only in California!!!!

PWPSK1
02-09-2012, 10:16 PM
Also finding a merchant (credit card) who allows you to sell guns is another issue. I called around and many said no go if you sell firearms.


Go through NRA Business Alliance---they have a credit card processor that knows you are a firearms retailer and will set you up with an account. They also have a very reasonably priced affiliation with an insurance company to make sure your firearms business is covered for commercial general liability, etc.

I would also caution any potential "home" FFL's as I am one: once you build a customer base (through good prices and excellent customer service) expect to spend much more time than you possibly imagined doing this. Between tons of paperwork, ordering guns/supplies, answering customer phone calls and emails and meeting with customers+keeping a day job, you will have little to no time left. Financially, unless you want to do this as a tax shelter, you will find the business doesn't truly pay for itself, let alone turn a profit, until you have customers coming in regularly. If you can do it, great, just be ready for this to be a bigger commitment than you might think.

GunSafari
02-09-2012, 10:42 PM
our COE's came back pretty quick less then 60 days and our ATF meeting was about 35 days after we mailed out the 01 application. then again probably not many applicants in LA city

the city's zoning/planning department mostly due to tony cardena's city council office (who is running for congress) have been the biggest laggers for us...

echoarms
02-09-2012, 11:49 PM
I had my interview and received my license a week later. I was surprised as I was under the impression my inspector had to contact my landlord still. I'm still waiting on my COE renewal. Would they send the license if there were open issues?

bebe67
02-10-2012, 12:16 PM
I thank GOD that my wife makes good money and I am a stay at home dad. I have a card processing with Intuit because I sell lots of stuff on Ebay, Craigslist but never asked them about firearms. I will leave it alone and if they catch it and don't like oh well I will go through NRA. I went ahead and applied for the FFL 7 because I want to build AR's and have set up for all my weapons stored off site and my home is basically an office.

IrishPirate
02-10-2012, 2:28 PM
Why do you need to get the COE and then FFL....why isn't the COE just rolled into the FFL process???


oh wait, sorry...forgot that would leave the Bureaucrats with nothing to do. Nevermind, carry on!!

Santa Cruz Armory
02-21-2012, 11:04 PM
I would also caution any potential "home" FFL's as I am one: once you build a customer base (through good prices and excellent customer service) expect to spend much more time than you possibly imagined doing this. Between tons of paperwork, ordering guns/supplies, answering customer phone calls and emails and meeting with customers+keeping a day job, you will have little to no time left. Financially, unless you want to do this as a tax shelter, you will find the business doesn't truly pay for itself, let alone turn a profit, until you have customers coming in regularly. If you can do it, great, just be ready for this to be a bigger commitment than you might think.

You hit the nail squarely on the head my friend!!

Rudolf the Red
02-25-2012, 9:08 PM
I would also caution any potential "home" FFL's as I am one: once you build a customer base (through good prices and excellent customer service) expect to spend much more time than you possibly imagined doing this. Between tons of paperwork, ordering guns/supplies, answering customer phone calls and emails and meeting with customers+keeping a day job, you will have little to no time left. Financially, unless you want to do this as a tax shelter, you will find the business doesn't truly pay for itself, let alone turn a profit, until you have customers coming in regularly. If you can do it, great, just be ready for this to be a bigger commitment than you might think.

I could rush through my sales but since we are in my garage, I feel at home and talk alot. Customers come back and bring friends and coworkers. I make a bit of money on gunbroker by looking for great deals and flipping the guns at gun shows. Here is an example and the exact reason I love having an FFL and HC Magazine Permit. I bought a Sig P226 with two barrels and 17 magazines online for $700. I sold the gun, two barrels, and 5 10 round mags for $600 at the Red Bluff gun show. I sold the 12 HC mags online for just over $300. I made $200. All I had to do was one handgun DROS, list two items on gunbroker, box up 6 mags twice, and ship them. It's not my first rodeo so it all goes quick. I am happy with that deal. The gun and 5 mags came in, the evil mags went out, and I made a buck. I really hope I can keep my business when I move. I like it.

efillc
02-26-2012, 6:43 AM
I would also caution any potential "home" FFL's as I am one: once you build a customer base (through good prices and excellent customer service) expect to spend much more time than you possibly imagined doing this. Between tons of paperwork, ordering guns/supplies, answering customer phone calls and emails and meeting with customers+keeping a day job, you will have little to no time left. Financially, unless you want to do this as a tax shelter, you will find the business doesn't truly pay for itself, let alone turn a profit, until you have customers coming in regularly. If you can do it, great, just be ready for this to be a bigger commitment than you might think.
Truer words never said! But by the same token we have met some of the best folks around, made some wonderful friends, and a few are even kind enough to show up occasionally with food - typically pizza, but we've also gotten steaks, Girl Scout cookies, and extra produce from gardens. :D