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View Full Version : A C&R becomes a non-C&R -- log it out??


littlejake
01-22-2012, 7:42 PM
Suppose one has a C&R long gun in their collection and properly logged into their A&D book.

Now, suppose one decides to make a major modification such as a sporterized stock.

There is much discussion about original configuration. If one makes a modification that takes a rifle out of C&R status, does one log it as a disposition to their personal collection in their A&D book???

(We log C&R's into our A&D book, that were acquired while not licensed, into our A&D book as from private collection when we make a disposition while licensed -- and out to the receiving party.)

TheExpertish
01-22-2012, 8:24 PM
If it's something as simple as changing the stock back to original configuration I would not. Also, just because you sporterize or change stocks doesn't mean the gun still isn't over 50 years old, so keep that in mind.

morrcarr67
01-22-2012, 8:52 PM
A&D = Acquisition & Disposition

You only log out a firearm when you "Dispose" of it.

Modifying it to the point of removing it from C&R status is not a disposal.

TheExpertish
01-22-2012, 9:24 PM
A&D = Acquisition & Disposition

You only log out a firearm when you "Dispose" of it.

Modifying it to the point of removing it from C&R status is not a disposal.

Hmmm, well some would say that Bubba = Trash = Disposal. :43:

littlejake
01-23-2012, 6:32 AM
Hmmm, well some would say that Bubba = Trash = Disposal. :43:

That was my way of thinking about it. Hypothetical question though.

a1c
01-23-2012, 8:26 AM
That was my way of thinking about it. Hypothetical question though.

If the legal part of the firearm that is still legally considered as such - the serialized one, in most cases the receiver - is not disposed of, then you still have it. You could sell off everything else, but still have the legal firearm in your possession. Sell or give away that part, and then you can log it out.

littlejake
01-23-2012, 9:02 AM
Seems like we come back to the question that has been a topic many times. Is a receiver a C&R item? i.e. -- can one transfer it like a C&R firearm.

Some say yes, some say no. I see the letter of memorandum that ATF published concerning original configuration as saying that ATF does not consider a receiver an item transferable under a C&R license.

So, if you strip a C&R rifle down to the receiver (whether or not you dispose of the other parts seems irrelevant) how do you answer a question in an audit "why is a receiver in your A&D book?"

morrcarr67
01-23-2012, 9:20 AM
Seems like we come back to the question that has been a topic many times. Is a receiver a C&R item? i.e. -- can one transfer it like a C&R firearm.

Some say yes, some say no. I see the letter of memorandum that ATF published concerning original configuration as saying that ATF does not consider a receiver an item transferable under a C&R license.

So, if you strip a C&R rifle down to the receiver (whether or not you dispose of the other parts seems irrelevant) how do you answer a question in an audit "why is a receiver in your A&D book?"

You're really over thinking this.

If you Acquired a firearm while licensed you must log it in to your bound book.

If you modify it to a point that would remove it from C&R status but you still own it you must keep it "logged in".

The only time you "log it out" is when you dispose of it.

If you Dispose of a firearm that you have modified to a point that it no longer meets the definition of a C&R you must Dispose of it in a manner that complies with all local, state and federal regulations. You would need to "log it out" at this time with the correct info.

If you Acquire a complete firearm while licensed and remove and sell all the parts thus leaving only the frame/receiver that is OK. Once you own a firearm you are legally able to make ANY modifications to it as long as you don't violate any local, state or federal laws. So, if you're asked about it you just tell them the truth: I bought it as a complete firearm and stripped all the parts off of it. If you Dispose of a frame/receiver it no longer meets the definition of a C&R and you must Dispose of it in a manner that complies with all local, state and federal regulations. You would need to "log it out" at this time with the correct info.

littlejake
01-23-2012, 9:41 AM
You're really over thinking this.

If you Acquired a firearm while licensed you must log it in to your bound book.

If you modify it to a point that would remove it from C&R status but you still own it you must keep it "logged in".

The only time you "log it out" is when you dispose of it.

If you Dispose of a firearm that you have modified to a point that it no longer meets the definition of a C&R you must Dispose of it in a manner that complies with all local, state and federal regulations. You would need to "log it out" at this time with the correct info.

If you Acquire a complete firearm while licensed and remove and sell all the parts thus leaving only the frame/receiver that is OK. Once you own a firearm you are legally able to make ANY modifications to it as long as you don't violate any local, state or federal laws. So, if you're asked about it you just tell them the truth: I bought it as a complete firearm and stripped all the parts off of it. If you Dispose of a frame/receiver it no longer meets the definition of a C&R and you must Dispose of it in a manner that complies with all local, state and federal regulations. You would need to "log it out" at this time with the correct info.

That makes sense to me.