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View Full Version : 8mm VS 7.62X54R


SKSer45
01-21-2012, 9:25 PM
oK so me and my FFL buddy have been going back and fourth on this. He is 7.62X54R especially with the Mosin and PKM. He is saying its in the same family of the .30-06, stopping power etc...I agree with him but...I think the 8mm still reigns supreme.

I think 8mm has the edge due to its size, strength, and serious knock down power especially with the MG-42 and 98k mauser. I mean when you got hit with that thing it was like getting hit with a train.

In honestly...I wouldn't want to get hit with either one of them and they are both heavy hitters.

Discuss.

gotshotgun?
01-21-2012, 9:46 PM
Yea I think you answered your question there, both rounds are seriously powerful as man stoppers. When these rounds were thought up, the mantality was you needed to take out your enemy with 1 hit because you only had 3-5 before a reload. Marksmanship was supreme and the infantry soldier had no problem lugging a 45 + inch rifle weighing 10 pounds.

SKSer45
01-21-2012, 9:56 PM
Yea I think you answered your question there, both rounds are seriously powerful as man stoppers. When these rounds were thought up, the mantality was you needed to take out your enemy with 1 hit because you only had 3-5 before a reload. Marksmanship was supreme and the infantry soldier had no problem lugging a 45 + inch rifle weighing 10 pounds.

Thank you! yes both are just as hard and will do major damage with one shot. Either way going down :)

Helpful_Cub
01-21-2012, 9:57 PM
Both will drop just about anything. You could argue the ballistics are slightly different, but that's kind of a small thing since they're both old rounds compared to modern ammo. The biggest difference I notice is this:

8mm Mauser - $0.258 per round
7.62mmx54r - $0.187 per round

smle-man
01-22-2012, 12:00 AM
The two rounds are essentially the same for any practical range.

rojocorsa
01-22-2012, 1:12 AM
The only detractor (kinda, is the rim of the x54R).

I'd always guess that a rimless 7.62 Russian would be pretty much like a super hot .308.

23 Blast
01-22-2012, 6:12 AM
Not sure of the actual ballistic data on each are, but all of those turn of the century infantry rifle cartridges, (8mm Mauser, 7.62x54, .303 British, 30-06, etc) were designed during a time when infantry doctrine envisioned long-range volley fire at distances up to 1000m. That's why you'll see those ladder sights on some of these old rifles when, in actual combat, they were rarely used to take shots of greater than 200m. So power and accuracy on all these old rounds are very high. If getting hit with a 8mm Mauser was like getting hit with a train, getting hit with a 7.62x54 was like getting hit with a Russian train. The result would be markedly similar.

FWIW, I've been told by several sources that the 8mm is very similar ballistically to the 30-06.

r3dn3ck
01-22-2012, 6:56 AM
Perhaps I can help with some anecdote: Judging by just the visible damage I'd say that anything in a full-power rifle is about the same from the victim's point of view.

The 7.62x54 left the same amount of bloodshot goo behind the skin of the entry wound on 150lbs class blacktail as the ought-6 and 7x57mauser and .308. What was different was the 7mm Rem Mag... that left 5x the bloodshot goo (but that shot was at < 50 feet) and the .243 which seemed destructive beyond its size (from > 300 yards) and the .444 marlin which was overly powerful for that critter size and wasted a lot of meat even with a neck shot.

So, from my purely anecdotal evidence: Any full size high power rifle that delivers 2500lbs of energy or better is pretty near the others. Belted magnums are much more powerful and if we want to call anything the king of power it'd be those rounds with enough recoil to make them uncomfortable to shoot much. You wanna talk train wrecks though, get up to big bore like .444 and .45-70. those are train wrecks. Everything else is much more elegantly lethal... big bore just blows stuff up.

Sailormilan2
01-22-2012, 7:32 AM
If you are talking about Military issue ammo, the 8mm reigns supreme. German WW2 ammo was 196 gr FMJ-BT bullet, which retained its velocity and energy much better down range than the USGI 152 gr FMJ-FB M2 Ball and 165 gr FMJ-FB M2 AP. Even though the USGI rounds start at a higher muzzle velocity.

Pete1979
01-22-2012, 8:44 AM
I have an example of each, 6.5mm, 7mm, 8mm mauser, .303, .308, 30-06, 7.62x54. If someone is willing to add 6.5 and 7.7 jap, french MAS and italian Carcano, we should drag them to a range and set up a test for velocity (chrono), bullet drop, penetration and wound channel.

r3dn3ck
01-22-2012, 8:48 AM
why include the mas? it's not like it ever fired a shot in anger ..... juss playin. i love to kid the french even if the kidding is a little mean and historically inaccurate. What would be actually shot with them though? The meat i've seen hit reacted differently than say gelatin as there were lots more bones in play.

Pete1979
01-22-2012, 9:11 AM
I was thinking a stack of old phone books but I'm open to suggestion. we'll need a 7.5 swiss as well.

Dark Mod
01-22-2012, 9:27 AM
8MM Mauser: 180 grain - 2728 fps / 2974 ft. lbs. (Stars & Stripes, Barnes-X)
7.62x54r: 180 grain - 2575 fps / 2651 ft. lbs (chuck hawkes, hornady)

I figured i put this to rest with some actual numbers. They are pretty much the same, although the 8mm has a slight lead. The numbers were a little further apart with lighter bullets, but you get the idea. I doubt anyone would notice a 300 ft lbs difference, but its there.

rojocorsa
01-22-2012, 9:51 AM
I was thinking a stack of old phone books but I'm open to suggestion. we'll need a 7.5 swiss as well.

They keep saying 7.5x55 is very very close to .308 ballistics.

Hell I think you can even load it with .308" bullets. (Not sure though)

bloodhawke83
01-22-2012, 10:09 AM
no one is using 8mm anymore, most switched to 7.63x51 nato or 7.62x54r. 8mm surplus will dry up soon enough.

Syntax Error
01-22-2012, 10:45 AM
From a design perspective, 8x57 is superior because it's rimless, so it makes it more conducive towards stacking in a magazine that doesn't have a ridiculous taper.

SKSer45
01-22-2012, 10:57 AM
I got the swiss ammo!