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1911su16b870
03-20-2007, 9:31 AM
How do you guys have your truck gun setup and what long arm do you take?

-hanko
03-20-2007, 3:49 PM
How do you guys have your truck gun setup and what long arm do you take?
FAL Para, folded, on the back seat. Officer .45 in the console.:D

-hanko

triggerhappy
03-20-2007, 4:00 PM
I like the way you roll, hanko!

tgriffin
03-20-2007, 4:01 PM
FAL Para, folded, on the back seat. Officer .45 in the console.:D

-hanko

Do what you got to do brother, but if I remember correctly, the center console is considered "glove compartment"

1911su16b870
03-20-2007, 4:02 PM
FWIW, I have a folded SU16b, two 10 round mags stowed in the stock, with the total enclosure trigger lock on it. All inside a nylon bag.

smogcity
03-20-2007, 4:09 PM
FWIW, I have a folded SU16b, two 10 round mags stowed in the stock, with the total enclosure trigger lock on it. All inside a nylon bag.


I thought that having a round/mag touching the long gun (even if its not in the magwell) is a Kali no-no...Same with shells in the side saddle of an unloaded shotgun in the trunk..

Am i off base on this?:confused:

WokMaster1
03-20-2007, 4:22 PM
Fully loaded AK on the dashboard, Uzi taped onto the side mirror, pointing forward. Glock with a 300 round hydraulic powered magazine strapped across my seat belt. And my son has a GE mini 22 gatling on the rear passenger window.:D

j/k

NRAhighpowershooter
03-20-2007, 4:51 PM
my truck gun is either my first Garand (service grade) or my SKS

Garand ($400) SKS ($99)

grammaton76
03-20-2007, 4:58 PM
SU-16CA when necessary, with a USGI 30rd mag. It fits underneath the passenger seats in my Pathfinder.

Unfortunately, I couldn't get my PAR-1 with the side-folding stock to fit in there. :(

1911su16b870
03-20-2007, 6:00 PM
Fully loaded AK on the dashboard, Uzi taped onto the side mirror, pointing forward. Glock with a 300 round hydraulic powered magazine strapped across my seat belt. And my son has a GE mini 22 gatling on the rear passenger window.:D

j/k

I like the way you roll :D

1911su16b870
03-20-2007, 6:14 PM
I thought that having a round/mag touching the long gun (even if its not in the magwell) is a Kali no-no...Same with shells in the side saddle of an unloaded shotgun in the trunk..

Am i off base on this?:confused:

First, I'm not a lawyer, but this case is interesting in the fact that the CA courts found the definition of loaded to be the common usage one, ie cartridge in the action of the firearm...others on this board are more capable in illuminating this topic than I...

http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/Peo...ark-(1996).pdf

FreedomIsNotFree
03-20-2007, 6:32 PM
First, I'm not a lawyer, but this case is interesting in the fact that the CA courts found the definition of loaded to be the common usage one, ie cartridge in the action of the firearm...others on this board are more capable in illuminating this topic than I...

http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/Peo...ark-(1996).pdf

That link is not working....

Here is the case for those that are interested. I love reading cases, but I know some of us aren't really "into" these long reads.

Here is the important part with regards to when a firearm is deemed "loaded".

People v. Clark (1996) 45 Cal.App.4th 1147 , 53 Cal.Rptr.2d 99
http://login.findlaw.com/scripts/callaw?dest=ca/caapp4th/45/1147.html&search=loaded


Discussion

I. Whether Shotgun was Loaded
[1a] Clark was convicted of possessing methamphetamine "while armed with a loaded, operable firearm" in violation of Health and Safety Code section 11370.1, subdivision (a) (italics added). He contends the court erred in instructing the jury on what the term "loaded" means and argues the shotgun here, as a matter of law, was not loaded. He objected to the court's definition of the term loaded and made a motion for acquittal on the Health and Safety Code section 11370.1, subdivision (a) count because, as a matter of law, the shotgun was not loaded.

The shotgun here is a single-shot shotgun. When the police seized the shotgun, it did not have a shell in the firing chamber. There were, however, three shells located in a covered compartment at the rear of the shotgun's stock. It is not possible to fire a shell from that location; a shell would have to be removed from the compartment and placed by hand in the chamber before it could be fired. A sheriff's deputy testified the shells were located in a "storage area."

Health and Safety Code section 11370.1 does not contain a definition of the term "loaded." The trial court relied on the definition of "loaded" contained in Penal Code section 12031. Penal Code section 12031 punishes the carrying of a loaded firearm in public or in a vehicle. Subdivision (g) of Penal Code section 12031 provides: "A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell, consisting of a case which holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm; except that a muzzle-loader firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder." (Italics added.)

Using this definition, the court told the jury "A shotgun is deemed to be 'loaded' when there is an unexpended shell ... in, or attached in any manner to, the shotgun."

The Attorney General argues the court's instruction was correct and the shotgun here was "loaded" within the meaning of Health and Safety Code section 11370.1, subdivision (a) because the shotgun shells, located in a storage compartment in the rear of the stock, were "attached" to the shotgun. [45 Cal.App.4th 1153]

We find this argument unpersuasive. We first observe, that in general, the language of a statute is to be given "its usual, ordinary import." (Quintano v. Mercury Casualty Co. (1995) 11 Cal.4th 1049 , 1055 [48 Cal.Rptr.2d 1, 907 P.2d 1057]; Lungren v. Deukmejian (1988) 45 Cal.3d 727 , 735 [248 Cal.Rptr. 115, 755 P.2d 299].)

FreedomIsNotFree
03-20-2007, 6:51 PM
WOW!!!

I never took proper notice of one of the paragraphs in this decision...

"Finally, we note that at most the Attorney General has raised a potential ambiguity in the use of the term "loaded." [3] As Clark correctly observes, ambiguities in statutes are to be construed in favor of the defendant; " ' "[t]he defendant is entitled to the benefit of every reasonable doubt, whether it arise out of a question of fact, or as to the true interpretation of words or the construction of language used in a statute. [Citation.]" ' " (People v. Garfield (1985) 40 Cal.3d 192 , 200 [219 Cal.Rptr. 196, 707 P.2d 258].) [1c] Thus, to the extent an ambiguity exists between whether the Legislature intended the term "loaded" to be used in its ordinary sense (i.e., a shell placed in a position ready to be fired) or to be used in an unusual sense (i.e., including a shell placed in a storage compartment from which it cannot be fired), we adopt the construction more favorable to Clark, i.e., that the term was intended to be used in its ordinary sense and that the shotgun here was not loaded."

This looks like a great citation for our mag locks. I would argue that the same "ambiguity" exists with what is considered detachable.

stuckin
03-20-2007, 6:58 PM
xd 45 in between the seats and a yugo folder with 30 round next to the passenger seat. extra 30 and 13 round mags in glove box and in between seats

stuck

1911su16b870
03-20-2007, 7:21 PM
+1 FreedomIsNotFree, Thanks for fixing the link with the correct citation.

savageevo
03-20-2007, 7:28 PM
for those who has a trunk rifle that you take to and from shooting ranges, do you take it out every night if parked outside. seems to be cumbersome if you have kids , groceries, briefcase, toolbox, and trash that you have to take out of the car on a daily basis.

stuckin
03-20-2007, 7:57 PM
if i am not in my truck my guns are not. unless i am out and about. but i never leave them in overnight. dont want them to fall into the wrong hands. i also leave them with the chamber empty. i have 3 small kids. they are not old enough of stronge enough to get the slide back to chamber a round. if the kids get in the front with me when we are stoped i pop the mag out and put them away to be extra safe. can never be to safe with kids around

stuck

hoffmang
03-20-2007, 8:40 PM
Here is the correct other link to People v. Clark:
http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/People-v-Clark-(1996).pdf

I'm still deciding between a monsterman AR or my SU-16.

-Gene

AJAX22
03-20-2007, 8:48 PM
I've been giving serious thought to a KNOXX setup on a mossberg 500, that way I can have a mag fed shotgun that lives in the trunk.

when I get my CCW (someday) I'm keeping a G17 with a 33 round mag in the map pocket in my door, for 'duck' huntin.

An AR can live in the trunk when I get my projects finished.

xdimitrix
03-20-2007, 9:03 PM
I remember reading over the firearms penal codes and thought it mentioned you aren't allowed to just carry any gun around in your car, unless it's being transported for a specific purpose (shooting range, whatever). Is this true? (yes I realize you can just make up a reason but it's nice to know the exact law)

hoffmang
03-20-2007, 9:25 PM
xdi,

You are remembering the registered AW and Handgun restrictions on transport. There are no such restrictions on rifles or shotguns.

-Gene

TacFan
03-20-2007, 10:04 PM
xdi,

You are remembering the registered AW and Handgun restrictions on transport. There are no such restrictions on rifles or shotguns.

-Gene

But what would you say if you got pulled over by the cop who spoted the rifle :eek:

hoffmang
03-20-2007, 10:14 PM
1. My rifle is/will be in my trunk. If he's in my trunk then he's either performing an illegal search or I have some evidence of some other crime floating around - both quite unlikely in my day to day.

2. To the extent that he finds a rifle in my trunk w/ loaded magazines in the same trunk, I'd simply remind him that there are no restrictions on carrying an unloaded long gun in California.

3. To the extent he complains about my OLL, I'd explain Harrot and SB-23.

If he's still a PIA and tries to arrest me, I'd tend to remind him of the potential liability he has for false arrest and mention my criminal defense attorney's name and my firearms defense lawyers name and then state that I have nothing further to say until either one of them show up.

You do realize that we're not getting past #1 very often, right?

-Gene

Cpl_Peters
03-20-2007, 11:00 PM
so side saddle = loaded?

hoffmang
03-20-2007, 11:07 PM
Under Clark the answer looks to be no to "side saddle = loaded."

http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/People-v-Clark-(1996).pdf

However, I'm tempted to keep it simple by having my loaded magazines next to a rifle instead of on it.

-Gene

Super_tactical
03-21-2007, 12:01 AM
I'm a little comfused. I always thought that the rifle ammo had to be locked.

Legally, can I have my OLL on the back seat and a loaded mag sitting next to it on the seat....no container?

hoffmang
03-21-2007, 12:02 AM
Legally, yes. Practically... most LEOs would cause you trouble but you wouldn't be convictable.

-Gene

WokMaster1
03-21-2007, 12:17 AM
1. My rifle is/will be in my trunk. If he's in my trunk then he's either performing an illegal search or I have some evidence of some other crime floating around - both quite unlikely in my day to day.

2. To the extent that he finds a rifle in my trunk w/ loaded magazines in the same trunk, I'd simply remind him that there are no restrictions on carrying an unloaded long gun in California.

3. To the extent he complains about my OLL, I'd explain Harrot and SB-23.

If he's still a PIA and tries to arrest me, I'd tend to remind him of the potential liability he has for false arrest and mention my criminal defense attorney's name and my firearms defense lawyers name and then state that I have nothing further to say until either one of them show up.

You do realize that we're not getting past #1 very often, right?

-Gene

So who's your criminal defense lawyer? PM me & what's up with the red pill manufacturing?

hoffmang
03-21-2007, 12:27 AM
I use a pair for different aspects should I need it:
http://nablaw.com/
http://www.dklawoffice.com/

I'm a nightmare for a DA on firearms issues. Know the law, follow it, be patient if inconvenienced, and have the fortitude to be able to defend yourself if necessary.

Red pills are a movie reference.

-Gene

phobos512
03-21-2007, 2:42 PM
xd 45 in between the seats and a yugo folder with 30 round next to the passenger seat. extra 30 and 13 round mags in glove box and in between seats

stuck

Sir I hope for your sake that you are not a resident of California or that if you are you are an LEO because if not, you just admitted to the illegal importation of a standard capacity magazine. Seeing as the XD came about after that ban in CA, that's a no no. Bad subject! Bad!

And that's not even getting into the fact that you have weapons concealed. Would not want to be you getting pulled over, that's all I can say.

Moby
03-21-2007, 3:43 PM
Sir I hope for your sake that you are not a resident of California or that if you are you are an LEO because if not, you just admitted to the illegal importation of a standard capacity magazine. Seeing as the XD came about after that ban in CA, that's a no no. Bad subject! Bad!
And that's not even getting into the fact that you have weapons concealed. Would not want to be you getting pulled over, that's all I can say.

I know I'm new here, but there's nothing wrong with an XD-45. They are readily available in 10 rounders and they're on the DOJ list.

grammaton76
03-21-2007, 3:45 PM
Seeing as the XD came about after that ban in CA, that's a no no. Bad subject! Bad!

1. He could be a cop.
2. Are you sure the XD's magazines can't be interchanged with other weapons? I can use, for instance, my lawfully owned Para P-14 mags in my very post-2000 Para P-14 Limited.

wutzu
03-21-2007, 4:22 PM
Sir I hope for your sake that you are not a resident of California or that if you are you are an LEO because if not, you just admitted to the illegal importation of a standard capacity magazine. Seeing as the XD came about after that ban in CA, that's a no no. Bad subject! Bad!

And that's not even getting into the fact that you have weapons concealed. Would not want to be you getting pulled over, that's all I can say.

He could have bought them. That would be perfectly legal (not as legal for the guy selling, but that's not the point) This has been discussed to death.

bruss01
03-21-2007, 5:08 PM
xd 45 in between the seats and a yugo folder with 30 round next to the passenger seat. extra 30 and 13 round mags in glove box and in between seats

stuck


He could have bought them. That would be perfectly legal (not as legal for the guy selling, but that's not the point) This has been discussed to death.

The XD came out after the ban. XD mags are not interchangeable with non-XD firearms (to the best of my knowledge). The guy mentions he has 13 round magazines, can we safely infer these are not for the Yugo underfolder?

Sure, he could have bought them... like in Nevada or any other state without a hi-cap ban. And brought them into California... Oops, didn't we mention that part was illegal? Unless he was a cop?

There's no way you can posess a hi-cap XD magazine and pretend you bought it before the ban. At least not to any cop who knows that the XD is a recenly developed firearm. People with Glocks can do that... or at least try and not be laughed at. To try that with an XD would be, er, well... stupid. Even less bright, bragging about it in a public internet forum. That amounts to a felony confession. Not to mention that that XD had better be in a locked container, or there's another violation right there. And we're assuming the Yugo is a registered assault weapon... Yes? If not that is a whole nuther kettle of fish right there.

Hope the guy was just joking around a bit or someone outside CA. For his sake.

!@#$
03-21-2007, 5:17 PM
before it was the xd it was the hs2000 and was for sale before 2000. the 45acp was not but many 9mm and i think 40s&w hs2000s with full cap mags are in california.

ravenbkp
03-21-2007, 5:19 PM
No prohibition on purchase here only the seller commits a crime? unless they try ta get ya for accessory to the sale?

CalNRA
03-21-2007, 5:22 PM
before it was the xd it was the hs2000 and was for sale before 2000. the 45acp was not but many 9mm and i think 40s&w hs2000s with full cap mags are in california.

yep, the HS 2000 was for sale in the US in 1999. there were versions of the magazine with as much as 16 rounds capacity.

xYourLocalAR15x
03-21-2007, 5:54 PM
I know I'm new here, but there's nothing wrong with an XD-45. They are readily available in 10 rounders and they're on the DOJ list.

he's talking about the Mags

xdimitrix
03-21-2007, 5:55 PM
post 2000, I heard a story about a guy who ordered an XD from turners and got the "LE" model. The employees did not know what LE was and sold him the gun. Well LE means law enforcement, and the gun came with two 12 round mags. Are you guys saying its legal for him to own the mags, and only Turner's committed a crime?

Quiet
03-21-2007, 6:00 PM
yep, the HS 2000 was for sale in the US in 1999. there were versions of the magazine with as much as 16 rounds capacity.

The HS2000 was only available in 9x19mm at the time. The .40 S&W, .45 GAP & .45 ACP versions only came about after Springfield Armory got involved and renamed it the XD.

Therefore, it it highly unlikely the poster had hi-cap .45 mags for his XD prior to the CA hi-cap mag ban. So, if he has them, he most likely broke several laws in order to obtain them in CA.

CalNRA
03-21-2007, 6:04 PM
The HS2000 was only available in 9x19mm at the time. The .40 S&W, .45 GAP & .45 ACP versions only came about after Springfield Armory got involved and renamed it the XD.

Therefore, it it highly unlikely the poster had hi-cap .45 mags for his XD prior to the CA hi-cap mag ban. So, if he has them, he most likely broke several laws in order to obtain them in CA.

correct.

my arguement only works for 9mm luger caliber

1911su16b870
03-21-2007, 6:10 PM
...Are you guys saying its legal for him to own the mags, and only Turner's committed a crime?

If this really happened, the guy got lucky, can legally retain the magazines and Turner's did sell high capacity magazines in conflict of CA law.

IMO the guy will have trouble making a LEO/or jury believe him if it ever comes up...

ibbryn
03-22-2007, 11:19 AM
Can someone comment on a truck gun (unloaded, behind seat, ammo not attached to the weapon in any way) in locations such as: Post office parking lot; School parking lot; most importantly - driving PAST a school but not entering school property?

I seem to remember some kind of gun-free zone around schools that could have affected even residents living next door to a school.

bruss01
03-22-2007, 11:23 AM
post 2000, I heard a story about a guy who ordered an XD from turners and got the "LE" model. The employees did not know what LE was and sold him the gun. Well LE means law enforcement, and the gun came with two 12 round mags. Are you guys saying its legal for him to own the mags, and only Turner's committed a crime?

My understanding of the law is that in order to be legal, you must have posessed the hi-cap magazine IN CALIFORNIA prior to the ban. It is not just a seller's offense. If you are in posession of a hi-cap magazine, and you did not have it in your posession IN CALIFORNIA prior to the ban, then you are in violation of the law. You cannot sell or transfer a hi-cap magazine within the state after the ban. You CAN sell it to someone outside the state. If that's incorrect then somebody show me where. Until then I stand by that opinion.

brando
03-22-2007, 12:07 PM
The magazine issue is sort of tricky though. It's obviously a post-ban magazine if it's stamped "Military/LEO only." But what if it's not stamped? CA DOJ has to prove that you acquired the magazine after the ban and unless there's a financial trail, I'd think that's difficult. I ended up with all kinds of mags when I first got out of the Army. They aren't stamped. Some of them I was just given, others I bought. How does the DOJ say they are post-ban? They could say "well, you didn't get your M1A until 2001, so you had no reason to have M14 mags," but the reality is I had a handful of M14 mags in my collection (though most had rusted bodies). Hell, I've still got a bunch of my old MP5 mags and I'll never own a weapon that can shoot them.

It's a tricky burden-of-proof question I think.

ibbryn
03-22-2007, 12:26 PM
It's a tricky burden-of-proof question I think.

Yes, but it's only really tricky if you talk since you have the right to purchase dated, post ban replacement parts for your mag.

You can have all the mags you want, even ones that were produced after the ban and no one can prove you don't legally possess them unless you tell them you don't legally possess them (unless the mags were for a weapon that was not in production pre ban).

brando
03-22-2007, 12:33 PM
Yup, the replacement parts issue sort of confounded this whole issue. It makes perfect sense. For example, those rusted M14 mags I have, I might as well replace the bodies if I want to put them to use. That makes perfect sense, but it also creates a situation where it's even more difficult to enforce the law. So essentially, the high-cap ban is most enforceable at the point of sale.

socalsteve
03-22-2007, 1:36 PM
Hmmm, I no longer have a truck gun or a truck for that matter but, once upon a time I did and kept an old H&R single barrel 12 gauge with the barrel cut off to 18 1/4 inches under the front seat with 3 shells in the ashtray for quick access.

You could put this shotgun going across the transmission hump and slide it so it just went under the seat on the older Nissan P/U's.

When you sat down it held it in place real well. It didn't fall or slide out when exiting the truck either.

brando
03-22-2007, 1:48 PM
Don't all firearms have to be in a locked container when transporting? Or is that just handguns and AWs?

ibbryn
03-22-2007, 2:07 PM
Brando, you are correct, just handguns and AWs need be in locked container.

Unloaded rifle or shotgun are GTG in the cab, concealed or not. That's the point of the CA truck gun.

I am just trying to work out any exceptions to that law, like driving through the school zone.

I'm thinking of a cheap mil surplus like an FR-8, .308, unloaded, chained to the cab of my truck.

-hanko
03-22-2007, 2:09 PM
Do what you got to do brother, but if I remember correctly, the center console is considered "glove compartment"
I'm legal to carry concealed.

-hanko

bruss01
03-23-2007, 7:23 AM
Yes, but it's only really tricky if you talk since you have the right to purchase dated, post ban replacement parts for your mag.

You can have all the mags you want, even ones that were produced after the ban and no one can prove you don't legally possess them unless you tell them you don't legally possess them (unless the mags were for a weapon that was not in production pre ban).

That's the key phrase, right there. XD45 magazines were not available prior to the ban, so posession of one over 10 round capacity is a de facto admission of guilt since you MUST have acquired it after the ban (unless you have a time machine). It doesn't take much of a case to make 2+2 add up to 4.

bruss01
03-23-2007, 7:29 AM
Another issue with the CA truck gun is the "1000 feet from a school" issue. You say "I never go near a school" but are you SURE? It's pretty amazing, I find schools all the time that are only a block or two from streets on which I normally drive. There's little evidence that there's a school nearby, plausibly within 1000 feet. You could be breaking the law accidentally, get pulled over for a tail light out and if you're within 1000 feet of a school you didn't know was there... uh-oh. Ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law, just try using that to get out of your next traffic ticket. Take a look at a map of local schools (public and private) if you can find one. They're freakin' everywhere. It's hard to get across town and NOT get within 1000 feet of one.

If I'm not mistaken, the loophole is if you have the gun LOCKED in a rack (long gun) or in a container (long gun or handgun). If it's locked up as specified, then the 1000 feet rule doesn't apply. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

1911su16b870
03-23-2007, 9:04 AM
Another issue with the CA truck gun is the "1000 feet from a school" issue...

Rant on...
That law erks me to no end. Columbine was under that law. Any teacher or administrator in any school should have the right to ccw. Teachers and administrators in CA have to do annual criminal checks so they're not felons. Gun free zones just invite any crackpot to come to any school and have his way...they don't have 24/7 LEOs on campus! There is one instance of a school administrator who parked his car >1000 ft away and during a shooting at his school, ran to his car, got his firearm, came back and stopped the carnage at his school.
Rant off...

ibbryn
03-23-2007, 10:22 AM
If I'm not mistaken, the loophole is if you have the gun LOCKED in a rack (long gun) or in a container (long gun or handgun). If it's locked up as specified, then the 1000 feet rule doesn't apply. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Ok, so this is the loophole I'm looking for. Anyone know the actual law on this?

My proposed truck gun would be locked, hidden and/or secured so I'm good with this. I realize this prevents rapid access but I'm also good with this. The proposed truck gun is for more of an active shooter situation rather than a car jacker. Anyone I want to shoot immediately will have to be happy getting run over instead.
:D

hoffmang
03-23-2007, 11:54 AM
Locked in the trunk should steer you clear:
http://www.ucop.edu/ucophome/coordrev/policy/8-16-99gun.html

-Gene

tgriffin
03-23-2007, 1:21 PM
Ok, so this is the loophole I'm looking for. Anyone know the actual law on this?

My proposed truck gun would be locked, hidden and/or secured so I'm good with this. I realize this prevents rapid access but I'm also good with this. The proposed truck gun is for more of an active shooter situation rather than a car jacker. Anyone I want to shoot immediately will have to be happy getting run over instead.
:D

Get a police car style hidden switch electric actuated lock. Roof mount or behind the seat mount.

gose
03-23-2007, 3:11 PM
If this really happened, the guy got lucky, can legally retain the magazines and Turner's did sell high capacity magazines in conflict of CA law.
IMO the guy will have trouble making a LEO/or jury believe him if it ever comes up...

Hmm, I feel kinda silly now for telling my dealer that he probably shouldn't let me take possession of the high-caps that came with one of the guns I bought...
No, he didn't notice and I was just about to walk out the door with it when _I_ noticed that the box said "high caps" on it.
So yes, it has happened before, the only difference is that I told about it and got 10 rounders instead :(

When transporting my guns I keep them in locked boxes in the trunk, no matter what they are.

ibbryn
03-23-2007, 3:17 PM
No, he didn't notice and I was just about to walk out the door with it when _I_ noticed that the box said "high caps" on it.
So yes, it has happened before, the only difference is that I told about it and got 10 rounders instead :(
.


The children of California thank you for your honesty.

tgriffin
03-23-2007, 3:39 PM
The children of California thank you for your honesty.

ROFLMAO... I shouldnt be laughing but that was a good one.

gose
03-23-2007, 3:47 PM
ROFLMAO... I shouldnt be laughing but that was a good one.

Oh well, I'll just go and kill a kitten instead... :D

tman
03-23-2007, 4:03 PM
Just want to clear a few things up.

Handgun

Would this be legal in a car?:

Handgun in a softcase like this one: http://acecase.com/files/thumbnails/pistol_case-a1b.jpg

The case is locked with the unloaded handgun inside, sitting on the floor of the car, or anywhere else concealed with a loaded magazine in the pant pocket or somewhere else in the car within reach.


Rifle/Shotgun

Unloaded sitting on the backseat or passenger seat. Ammo within grasp or in glovebox.



If the answer is yes to either, it would be legal, is this at anytime? Or only when going to the range, gunsmith, etc?


Also, can anyone point me to the actual law itself?


Thanks a lot.

FreedomIsNotFree
03-23-2007, 4:10 PM
Just want to clear a few things up.

Handgun

Would this be legal in a car?:

Handgun in a softcase like this one: http://acecase.com/files/thumbnails/pistol_case-a1b.jpg

The case is locked with the unloaded handgun inside, sitting on the floor of the car, or anywhere else concealed with a loaded magazine in the pant pocket or somewhere else in the car within reach.


Rifle/Shotgun

Unloaded sitting on the backseat or passenger seat. Ammo within grasp or in glovebox.



If the answer is yes to either, it would be legal, is this at anytime? Or only when going to the range, gunsmith, etc?


Also, can anyone point me to the actual law itself?


Thanks a lot.

Here is the sections you should be VERY familiar with PRIOR to transporting ANY gun....

CA Penal Code section 12020-12040
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=69164923100+0+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve

I could tell you what I think, but that would just be MY opinion. If you read the law yourself, then you will understand it so much better.

luvtolean
03-23-2007, 4:16 PM
However, I'm tempted to keep it simple by having my loaded magazines next to a rifle instead of on it.

So there is no ambiguity, on the occasion I want a car gun, this is how it rides. Loaded mags, not attached.

This is also why I keep my SU-16CA. Much easier to fold down and tossed into a "non-gun bag".

24_minutes_to_1000
03-23-2007, 8:11 PM
My SU-16 fits into a gym bag very nicely, and as I'm always going to a range I have it with me constantly.

tman
03-23-2007, 8:38 PM
Here is the sections you should be VERY familiar with PRIOR to transporting ANY gun....

CA Penal Code section 12020-12040
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=69164923100+0+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve

I could tell you what I think, but that would just be MY opinion. If you read the law yourself, then you will understand it so much better.
Well, what is your opinion?

I think it may be legal.

Anyone else have an opinion?

1911_Mitch
03-23-2007, 8:39 PM
[QUOTE=gose;547421]Hmm, I feel kinda silly now for telling my dealer that he probably shouldn't let me take possession of the high-caps that came with one of the guns I bought...
No, he didn't notice and I was just about to walk out the door with it when _I_ noticed that the box............................................... ......QUOTE]

:eek:

Contained a 25 round 6.8 Magazine :eek: !!!...............

I brought this to his attention and promptly handed it to the FFL for exchange. :mad:

I have a few pre-bans from my early years :cool: and wouldn't want a new caliber highcap (unavailable before the ban) to messy things up.

1911_Mitch
03-23-2007, 8:59 PM
One more thing....

Unless you live in a rural area, you probably drive through (IMO) an average of 2-3 school zones on a normal 30 minute commute to work.

Regarding the School Zone, when I took my CCW class, I specifically asked the instructor, who happened to be an Assistant District Attorney for the County of issuance - and an "avid" hunter, about this and he did say that.....

Within 1000 feet of a school zone, even long guns AND ammo had to be locked up. He indicated this was something in the Federal law that they can dig up to charge you with something other than what you got into your predicament.

I have never personally delved into the law to verify this, but consider this to be where the DA in my county is approaching the issue of firearms (What is it that scares the sheep so much?) I tend to be more careful about firearms transport et al., in my local due to this.

I like the idea of a "car longun" (beacuse we don't all drive trucks), but have personally decided its practicality is extremely limited and likely to get you into more trouble than it could get you out of. More likely to get rusted than anything else. Slightly likely to get stolen. And very unlikely to ever be needed. And remeber - if you pull that thing out - YOU are the active shooter!

I'd rather have a pistol concealed on person at all times (except when I sleep, and then the other weapons, lights, gizmos, and phones are within arms reach).

ketec_owner
03-23-2007, 11:56 PM
Phased plasma rifle in 40-watt range

:)

Mike Searson
03-24-2007, 11:03 AM
Hmmm, I no longer have a truck gun or a truck for that matter but, once upon a time I did and kept an old H&R single barrel 12 gauge with the barrel cut off to 18 1/4 inches under the front seat with 3 shells in the ashtray for quick access.

When I lived in California, I used an EAA Bounty Hunter as a truck gun similar to this: 2 rounds in the ash tray, 2 rounds in the side door pouch, and a box or two in the cab.

It wasn't a very expensive gun, it looked like an antique hunting gun, and it was fast handling as well as lethal at close range.

The H&R single shot might even be a better alternative.

Now I use whatever I damn please as a truck gun.

:cool:

stator
03-24-2007, 11:59 AM
First, I'm not a lawyer, but this case is interesting in the fact that the CA courts found the definition of loaded to be the common usage one, ie cartridge in the action of the firearm...others on this board are more capable in illuminating this topic than I...

http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/Peo...ark-(1996).pdf

AB334 changes this by adding definition to PC 12023. Go read it, everyone.

kmk
04-07-2007, 10:58 AM
i'm a contractor in Oakland .,.,.,in and out of the worst neighborhoods.,.,.,i've driven down streets with crack heads clinging to my bumper.,.,soo brandishing a weapon is a common occurance for me.,.,.i keep a FEG PA-63 in the truck .,.,.it's small , hi powered and cheap.,.,.if it needs to be tossed in the bay , so be it!

gunrun45
04-07-2007, 1:37 PM
i'm a contractor in Oakland .,.,.,in and out of the worst neighborhoods.,.,.,i've driven down streets with crack heads clinging to my bumper.,.,soo brandishing a weapon is a common occurance for me.,.,.i keep a FEG PA-63 in the truck .,.,.it's small , hi powered and cheap.,.,.if it needs to be tossed in the bay , so be it!

Well hell, at least you're honest:D

Me, I carry my keltek 16 with 3- 30 rounders and the 2 10 rounders in a small AW type case. Looks like a guitar case actually! It wears my Surefire 200 light (that also finds duty on my H&K USP 40c), there aftermarket forend, tirtum front sight, clonepoint sight with a real swans receiver base and a smith muzzle break. I know, I spent more for the base than I did on the clonepoint. Oh well...

KDOFisch
04-07-2007, 1:42 PM
Don't forget:

The 12 gauge auto-loader.
The 45 long slide with laser sighting.
The Uzi 9mm.

:D

Deez are Italian, you can go pump...or auto.

E Pluribus Unum
04-07-2007, 3:12 PM
AB334 changes this by adding definition to PC 12023. Go read it, everyone.

AB 334 changes the definition of loaded to "For purposes of Section 12023, a firearm shall be deemed to be "loaded" whenever both the firearm and the unexpended ammunition capable of being discharged from the firearm are in the immediate possession of the same person."

I assume that is what you are talking about. It is the only reference in AB 334 that I can see for changing the definition of "loaded". If there is another please tell me.

In the begining it says "For the purposes of Section 12023".

12023. (a) Every person who carries a loaded firearm with the intent to commit a felony is guilty of armed criminal action.


So, if you plan to rob a bank with an unloaded firearm while bullets are in your pocket it would still be considered loaded. If you are not committing a felony than the old definition applies.

Librarian
04-07-2007, 8:19 PM
AB334 changes this by adding definition to PC 12023. Go read it, everyone.

That's the way the law is already, it's not a change made by AB 334.

Additions in the bill to current law appear in italics in the HTML version labeled 'introduced'; deletions are in 'strikeout'.