PDA

View Full Version : OLL Paranoia?


Sander77
03-19-2007, 8:33 PM
Was just browsing through some old posts, and one I've seen a few times is the one where someone expresses concern about being caught red-handed with their pinned-mag OLL and having to explain everything they've ever read about CA AW law to the LEO...

But it made me wonder, with people that feel paranoid about that kind of thing, are they usually worried about being pulled over for some unrelated reason, and having the OLL in the trunk?

Or is it because the DOJ will sometimes go undercover at the local range and take names?

I guess I was just thinking that unless you like to ride the subway with a big black rifle case strapped on your back that says "I LOVE AR-15s", how often would you even be in a situation where you'd get hassled by LE/DOJ?

In other words, if you drive like a sane person back and forth to your OLL-friendly range, it seems pretty remote that there would ever be cause for you to bump into LEO/DOJ.

Sorry, I hope this post doesn't sound like a smart-a** question. I'm really just trying to see where people are coming from when they express those kinds of concerns.

If anyone has a first-hand experience where they got hassled because of their OLL, would they mind sharing it, as well as the outcome?

Thanks

brighamr
03-19-2007, 8:45 PM
I wouldn't call it hasseling, but I was asked about my saiga from a LEO at the farmington range. He just heard it and saw it and wanted to know how much it cost and where he could get one :-) I also let him shoot it a couple times. Other than that, I've driven to ranges, taken it to Utah, taken it to the Sierras and never had a problem. I think people are afraid because of the few test cases that had extenuating circumstances (ie. IIRC, family called the cops on there own blood, reporting a guy being despondent and having multiple AKs). That's my opinion, I'm sure others will follow.

hoffmang
03-19-2007, 8:56 PM
The funniest thing is that I actually have an OLL in my trunk at least half the time I'm driving for various reasons.

Granted I don't have a barrel most of the time, but still - I certainly don't worry about it. I'd welcome the chance to spank a DA.

-Gene

Lateralus
03-19-2007, 11:36 PM
ive never had anyone question the legality of any of my rifles. I welcome the day i do, id love to go law crazy on the law enforcers... lol

triggerhappy
03-20-2007, 9:18 AM
Take names? You realize that they usually get info from lic. plates, right? take your in-laws car (preferably w/o their knowledge, lol). They can record them all, and sift through them later. This is why you should always take a cab to the range:)

anonymous
03-20-2007, 9:35 AM
Or is it because the DOJ will sometimes go undercover at the local range and take names?

Thanks

This is why I always wear a fake mustache/eyeglasses/nose thing and use an alias when I go to the range. You can never be to careful with the DOJ Secret Police.

jester
03-20-2007, 9:40 AM
LOL! This remindes me, one time I signed in at the range as John (wadd)Holmes

tenpercentfirearms
03-20-2007, 9:44 AM
You guys go to a range to shoot? I don't even own guns so how could I even possibly go to a range, let alone carry firearms around in my car.

I repeat, I do not own any guns.

Prc329
03-20-2007, 9:44 AM
I got pulled over once and the LEO asked me if my bag was locked. I think he may have been a little ignorant of the law. That was it.

I think most people are more worried about loosing there $700+ rifles.

bwiese
03-20-2007, 9:49 AM
I'd welcome the chance to spank a DA.


Oooh, TMI, TMI - bad porn visuals.

:)

mark3lb
03-20-2007, 10:06 AM
You guys go to a range to shoot? I don't even own guns so how could I even possibly go to a range, let alone carry firearms around in my car.

I repeat, I do not own any guns.


So you're like a non-smoker who owns a smoke shop?:D

mark3lb
03-20-2007, 10:15 AM
People don't want to get in trouble or go to jail. That's why they worry about OLL rifles...even when they're perfectly legal..unless you add something you shouldn't

Cpl_Peters
03-20-2007, 11:59 AM
people are paranoid because no one knows how a REAL case will go down. Some people remember my post from December in which me and someother board members had a "run in" with the law at a christmas party. All ended well but just because one group of LEOs knows the law, doesnt mean others will see your OLL and not freak out.

un_ave
03-20-2007, 12:49 PM
Hypothetical situation:

say you're at the range...and a law enforcement officer (lets say a rookie :) ) is convinced you OLL is not legal, even though it is, etc. What can they do? Can they confiscate it? Do you have to accompany them to the station?? What's the worst that can happen?

just speculating.....

ta2oed1
03-20-2007, 1:17 PM
Thats a good question. What "CAN" an ignorant LEO do? Have not heard of any real world happenings. Just speculation. Anybody know the letter of the law. What can happen in an ecounter of this sort? Aside from the fact that my OLL is perfectly legal.

hoffmang
03-20-2007, 1:26 PM
Oooh, TMI, TMI - bad porn visuals.

:)

Well, most of the DAs have been female...

-Gene

Charliegone
03-20-2007, 1:26 PM
Well, most of the DAs have been female...

-Gene

...and if she's hot even better!:)

thomye
03-20-2007, 1:56 PM
i'm sorry, what are you guys talking about? i thought this was a Airconditioning and Refridgeration forum.

maybe i'm in the wrong place.

DirtySanchez
03-20-2007, 1:59 PM
http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/defunlaw.htm

brighamr
03-20-2007, 2:03 PM
Thats a good question. What "CAN" an ignorant LEO do? Have not heard of any real world happenings. Just speculation. Anybody know the letter of the law. What can happen in an ecounter of this sort? Aside from the fact that my OLL is perfectly legal.


They CAN confiscate your rifle, causing you to pay fees and wait for upwards of a month to get it back. If they're really retarded, they will take you to jail, and you will pay bail plus court costs.

In all reality though, with the amount of OLLs out there and people taking them to ranges, I would say the chance of even being hassled are mightly slim. If you're smart and bring along some paperwork (the calguns FAQ, DROS, the AB's, etc), it may save a lot of trouble. On the same thought, if you're smart and handle your OLL like you would any other hunting rifle (ie. not doing burst fires, or RAMBO moves) I doubt you'd even get bothered in the first place. *This is just my opinion, I'm no lawyer and wont be held accountable if you do get your OLL confiscated*

ta2oed1
03-20-2007, 2:24 PM
Well spoken.

veeklog
03-20-2007, 2:53 PM
I think what was posted is a pretty good question. I was shooting on a vineyard with many, many acres near Paso Robles this weekend with friends, and half of them were shooting OLL's. I was shooting my work weapons, plus I brought along my registered aw. I was marked up (wearing my agencies markings) so I doubt I wold half been hassled. The caretaker of the vineyard told me everyone shoots on their lands and they are not harrased by law enforcement except by this overzealous California game warden. The problem was that it was private land with closed gates that you must open to enter. It made me wonder why he came on their land, unless it was to check endangered species like the mountain lyon. I was thinking 4th Amendment issues all the way.

I know he would have harrassed us because I was there, but what about the common shooter? I have been educating many people I work with about OLL's, and a lot have built up their own with my help. I feel your paranoia because what would happen when someone doesn't know.

It's the state's responsibility to teach about OLL's, but they would rather avoid the whole issue entirely. Sometime you have to wonder the agenda of politicians, and why they put their own agenda of the public's they serve.

Food for thought.

Astig Boy
03-20-2007, 3:39 PM
This is what happens when you get pulled over and you tell them you have legally locked guns in the car. They pull them out and they will run a check on them. Theres literally hundreds of different rifles out there, they dont care if its a OLL or not...and guess what, most of the time they wont care as long as it is in your name. And once they see everything matches up, your on your merry way. If a officer feels something odd about your particular rifle(regardless if it is a OLL) or if they feel odd that you do have a gun in your trunk(even if it is locked securely and legally), they can confiscate it for the time being. They will ask you to pick it up at there department and you do not have to pay a fine, no storage fees, or ticket. Ask me how I know this. :D

OLL paranoia, I swear guys here really hype it up sometimes...get over it.

ta2oed1
03-20-2007, 3:56 PM
Your right. Sorry waste space on the forum. It is kinda silly when ou think about it, to go to a place filled with knowledge to further educate yourself. Possibly just to help protect your rights. Possibly just out of curiosity.
wont happen again. We've "Gotten over it"

hoffmang
03-20-2007, 9:00 PM
veek:

People who aren't breaking the law with an OLL in their arms when a cop walks up tend to get some respect. Crooks run - citizens say "howdy officer."

Seriously, if "harassed" I would calmly explain Harrot and SB-23. Its pretty easy and I know I'm right. That knowledge comes through when you're having a conversation with a LEO. It doesn't hurt if your confident that your lawyers are better than their DA and remembering that a LEO is there to serve.

-Gene

fairfaxjim
03-20-2007, 11:03 PM
It's the state's responsibility to teach about OLL's, but they would rather avoid the whole issue entirely. Sometime you have to wonder the agenda of politicians, and why they put their own agenda of the public's they serve.

Food for thought.

I find the food for thought is that they are not avoiding the issue at all - the CADOJ has been running a campaign of disinformation with their inaccurate and misleading memos
http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/forms/pdf/AWpolicyrev4.pdf
and attempting submarine legislation through their (still ongoing) regulation process - including ignoring the public comments and proposing new wording without a public hearing. http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/regs/awnotice1106.php?PHPSESSID=1520cb79cfd89ce35d3e818 cd0c46f7b
It's a wonder we don't have all kinds of legal OLL's being busted as illegal AW's given the kind of advice and guidance that the DOJ is providing the LE agencies of our fine republik! I think we can attribute the absence of arrests to the fact that they are doing as good of job disseminating their disinformation (not!) as they are of providing true and accurate information (again not!)

Cpl_Peters
03-20-2007, 11:10 PM
This is what happens when you get pulled over and you tell them you have legally locked guns in the car. They pull them out and they will run a check on them. Theres literally hundreds of different rifles out there, they dont care if its a OLL or not...and guess what, most of the time they wont care as long as it is in your name. And once they see everything matches up, your on your merry way. If a officer feels something odd about your particular rifle(regardless if it is a OLL) or if they feel odd that you do have a gun in your trunk(even if it is locked securely and legally), they can confiscate it for the time being. They will ask you to pick it up at there department and you do not have to pay a fine, no storage fees, or ticket. Ask me how I know this. :D

OLL paranoia, I swear guys here really hype it up sometimes...get over it.


it was my understanding that long guns, including OLLs are not "in" anybody's name and only show up in a law enforcement systems if they were reported stolen.

hoffmang
03-20-2007, 11:17 PM
As long as CA DOJ is following the law, long guns including OLLs create no trace that remains in any public database. The only data that exists is in the bound books of the FFL(s) you purchased them through.

-Gene

mark3lb
03-21-2007, 8:26 AM
The caretaker of the vineyard told me everyone shoots on their lands and they are not harrased by law enforcement except by this overzealous California game warden. The problem was that it was private land with closed gates that you must open to enter. It made me wonder why he came on their land, unless it was to check endangered species like the mountain lyon. I was thinking 4th Amendment issues all the way.



If I was a Game Warden and was driving alone on patrol and see 5-8 guys with AR-15's out in the middle of woods and my back up is 50 miles away, I simply realize it's time to go to lunch and maybe they'll be gone when I get back in that area tomorrow. The State doesn't pay enough to deal with that lol

Astig Boy
03-21-2007, 3:00 PM
it was my understanding that long guns, including OLLs are not "in" anybody's name and only show up in a law enforcement systems if they were reported stolen.

As long as CA DOJ is following the law, long guns including OLLs create no trace that remains in any public database. The only data that exists is in the bound books of the FFL(s) you purchased them through.

-Gene

Thats a big misconception and I hope everyone realizes that. I used to believe that also, until I was checked. There is a database with your rifle and pistol and your name will be attached to it as owner/purchaser...and it did take a long while for them to find that information. I did have a pistol and a rifle that belonged to my brother who was not present with me. They asked me who such and such was and what I was doing with his firearms. "Hes my brother. Is it illegal for him to let me borrow his firearms to go shoot?" Their reply, "No." Even so, they were being courteous and friendly towards me, everything was A OK afterwards and they let me go without incident.

hoffmang
03-21-2007, 3:50 PM
Long guns are not in the central database. Pistols are in the database. The pistol is what they ran to figure out that it didn't belong to you.

OLLs are not and can not be pistols.

-Gene

Astig Boy
03-21-2007, 5:00 PM
Long guns are not in the central database. Pistols are in the database. The pistol is what they ran to figure out that it didn't belong to you.

OLLs are not and can not be pistols.

-Gene

NO, THE RIFLE WAS IN THE DATABASE. The pistol had my brothers old address. And the rifle had his new address. Explain that one. :rolleyes:

hoffmang
03-21-2007, 5:05 PM
One of three things is occuring here:

1. You are confused about the situation.

2. DOJ is violating the law.

3. This wasn't an roadside lookup but an actual full firearms trace over a couple of days or a week.

-Gene

Astig Boy
03-21-2007, 7:29 PM
One of three things is occuring here:

1. You are confused about the situation.

2. DOJ is violating the law.

3. This wasn't an roadside lookup but an actual full firearms trace over a couple of days or a week.

-Gene

It was a road side lookup...took close to an hour with me waiting in the backseat uncuffed. I listened and watched them do the lookup. Why would I make this up. Where do you get your source from? How about you get pulled over and see for yourself. What would I know anyways right?...Im just a unknowledgeable memeber here who has first hand experience! HAHAH

Richieboy
03-21-2007, 10:46 PM
^ Maybe he had the rifle registered in case it were stolen? As far as I know you can register a long gun(just like you register a bicycle) so they can prove its yours if it gets stolen. Ive been told by a few gun shops that its optional but not not required, and the only record for long arms is the individual FFLs records.

Just what I heard though.

hoffmang
03-21-2007, 10:50 PM
Astig,

Your first hand knowledge leads to only two likely outcomes - DOJ is violating the law, or your brother registered his rifle. I've been reading code all night or I'd go find the cite that shows that all non handguns records are supposed to be destroyed after a DROS.

Interested in helping prove the DOJ is breaking the law? If so, you need to ask your brother if the rifle had any paperwork done on it other than a DROS.

-Gene

socalguns
03-22-2007, 5:52 AM
The word is voluntary :)

fairfaxjim
03-22-2007, 9:01 AM
NO, THE RIFLE WAS IN THE DATABASE. The pistol had my brothers old address. And the rifle had his new address. Explain that one. :rolleyes:
Unless your brother had done a voluntary registration of the rifle, it is not in the database. The address thing could simply be that they ran the handgun, got the data, then ran your brother from that and determined that his data and the address on the handgun reg. did not match. That would raise a question mark and may be confusing the issue. Long gun DROS forms don't contain any registerable data. Besides, they are also required to destroy the long gun DROS data after it is completed. Our names and addresses are on so many computer records that is not much of a stretch to see how they could get your brother's name from the handgun and come up with all sorts of other info using that hook without the rifle being involved.