IMPORTANT: PPTs in San Diego

[jnojr]

If you are doing a private party transaction in the City of San Diego, you must have already completed the sale before entering the gun store.

I was just told that there's a City ordinance that prohibits private sales inside of an FFLs facility. Once they become aware that the transfer is anything other than a "done deal" (one party examining the firearm, cash exchanging hands, etc.) they gotta refuse the transfer and toss you out.

Meet somewhere else. Look the gun over, agree on a price, pay, etc. Then walk into the FFL and simply ask for the transfer.

I don't know if this is only handguns, or all firearms. And this is a City ordinance, so FFLs outside of the City (East County, North County) do not, to my knowledge, have this restriction.

[CALI-gula]

If you are doing a private party transaction in the City of San Diego, you must have already completed the sale before entering the gun store.

I was just told that there's a City ordinance that prohibits private sales inside of an FFLs facility. Once they become aware that the transfer is anything other than a "done deal" (one party examining the firearm, cash exchanging hands, etc.) they gotta refuse the transfer and toss you out.

Well, that could create an issue for consignment sales, and might that be what they are trying to attack? A consignment sale by a dealer in CA is almost just like a PPT, but the buyer is unknown - however much of the paperwork is similar. The dealer in both cases is just the custodian of the sale, however he might get a percentage in the consignment sale so he does have a financial interest.

So what is the problem? Might this have simply been a dealer disgruntled that people were using his outlet as a meeting/sale point? And he made up this ordinance issue?

If an ordinance, it seems it would fall under a Business and Professions Code or local business zoning law, say something for pawn shops as well, as opposed to anything to do with firearms laws.


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[bwiese]

Please show us the relevant codes dealing with this.

There is a very good, but not unlimited, chance that this could be blocked w/preemption.

[CALI-gula]

Please show us the relevant codes dealing with this.

There is a very good, but not unlimited, chance that this could be blocked w/preemption.


I was thinking the same thing, so long as it is firearms oriented - which is why I was wondering if they were applying something under the Business & Professions Code or business zoning ordinance, which would not have to subscribe to state pre-emption for firearms laws, because it might apply to ALL things, even cars, TVs, antiques, whatever. Such as maybe pawn shop deals can't take place between 2 people on pawn shop grounds (I know, that sounds stupid; just like 70% of all CA laws).

Yes, the actual text of the ordinance is needed.

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[bwiese]

You'd think they'd WANT as many elements of a gun sale to go on at/near a dealer, to promote dealer-mediated transfers and not back-of-the-bar paper-free transfers.

[Directshot]

To think, someone actually gets paid to think up these BS ordinances and get them on the books.

[CALI-gula]

You'd think they'd WANT as many elements of a gun sale to go on at/near a dealer, to promote dealer-mediated transfers and not back-of-the-bar paper-free transfers.


Exactly - which is why after the 1 per 30-Day law and SB15 went into effect, certain people chimed in, and is also the reason Lockyer came out with opinions noting that consignment handguns sales in gun stores is OK and exempt from SB15. He and some legislaters realized they created laws that would encourage or actually prevent people from selling their used handguns through a 4473/DROS process, because CA dealers couldn't stock them and the 1 per 30 day on buyers for all handguns would limit liquidation of personal private assets. And if CA delaers couldn't stock them, those dealers would less likely buy them from walk-ins customers, so... the owner sells his handgun face to face with no paper record.

So Joe would end up selling his handgun to Jim down the street - "Yeah Jim, don't worry about all that paperwork garbage" not knowing Jim is an ex-felon.

Hopwever, I still think that many of these superfluous and added paper processing laws ( 4473 / DROS / HSC / Safety Handling Test / Lock Purchase/ Proof of Residency / Magnetic Strip ID required with matching residency to bill / Fingerprint / extra cost / etc. ) have actually encouraged some people to avoid the going through a dealer and just selling face to face to our ex-felon friend "Jim".

An unintended consequence!


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[Mssr. Eleganté]

If this really is a city ordinance then it must just be a coincidence that it sounds exactly like the kind of BS a gunshop owner would make up on the spot to stop customers from "shopping" for other people's guns in his gunshop.