what are the laws on silencers? would they cross into airsoft?

[unsped]

i like some airsoft stuff, and for some airsoft stuff, like the mk23 they make silencers that do work to some degree (foam lined).

the question is, if you own these alongside regular firearms im assuming there is a chance for confusion and legal hassle?

[SC_00_05]

I had a silencer for my paintball gun and IIRC, I believe the ATF determined them to be considered real suppressors. I never heard anything about them wanting to confiscate the items or wanting us to turn them in but the stores did stop selling them. I'm not exactly sure though, of their actual legality (the paintball suppressor is long gone now, to JBTs reading this).

[xenophobe]

A sound suppressor is a sound suppressor whether it's for an airsoft, paintball gun, or bb gun. If you have an airsoft suppressor that will fit a firearm, that's a felony. And it might even be one without a firearm....

[1911_sfca]

Make sure to dispose of all your empty 2L soda bottles right when they are empty.. otherwise you have a silencer on your hands..

[unsped]

you would think intent would be required... dunno

[bwiese]

you would think intent would be required... dunno

You would think wrongly.

Intent is NOT required, esp if it's anything like an airsoft replica that might readily fit a regular firearm. And if a cop runs into it he's gonna think the worst and if it had any audio reduction capabilities, your f**cked at both Fed and state levels.

And yes, a 2L Coke jug is a no-no if you have a thread adapter.

[CalNRA]

better dispose of all the extra PVC pipes that my dad has not used up for his sprinkler system. some douche bag ATF guy might just grab the roll of duct tape from the garage and say, "see, a silencer".

[guimus]

don't even think about bringing home any potatoes from the grocery store...

[SunshineGlocker]

Pillows, 2l bottles, potatoes, etc, can all be used as silencers. They're all legal until the possessor takes some action that shows intent to use it to decrease the sound of a firearm. If you have a thread adapter for your 2L bottle, then it's a silencer. If you taped up a pillow in a way that would make it suitable for attaching to a gun, it's a silencer. If you have a potato in one hand and a gun in the other hand, and there isn't some good reason for having those two things in your hands at the same time, and somehow that got witnessed, and there was something to indicate that the potato might be used to silence the gun, then maybe, just maybe, some prosecutor could argue that the otherwise-legal potato is a silencer. If someone were on his way to committing a murder, and had a gun and a potato with him, it could be reasonable to prosecute for possession of the potato, if the intent to murder with the gun and use the potato as a silencer could be proven. Maybe. I sure would not want to have a video of myself shooting through a potato posted on Youtube (NB: I've never shot through a potato or a pillow or any of those things).

I'm pretty sure that basically all BB gun, airsoft and paintball silencers are treated as firearms silencers (ie, illegal in CA) because they all use the same technology. I assume that an airsoft silencer would be destroyed if it were actually used on a firearm, but it would probably decrease the amount of sound for at least one shot, so it's a silencer.

I would stay well out of any gray areas on this one. I wouldn't own anything that seems like it might muffle a shot or be attachable to the end of a barrel.

What's silly is that silencers are hardly regulated in much of the world. They're perfectly normal things in much of Europe, etc.

[Forestboy]

What's silly is that silencers are hardly regulated in much of the world. They're perfectly normal things in much of Europe, etc.


Yeah but they LOOK scary.....

[jlmurphy]

Silencers, or moderators were imported permanently attached to the barrels of some English air rifles ( where they are legal), in the 90's. Generally any sound moderator that can be used to reduce the report of a firearm is illegal. The fact that they were impossible to remove from the air rifle without destruction was what made them importable.

[Technical Ted]

IIRC airsoft suppressors use metric threadings different from those typically found on real firearms. The materials used are also suspect since the purpose for which they are manufactured--airsoft--produces much lower muzzle blast pressures and temperature.

[AJAX22]

Airsoft suppressos are typically 14mil left handed threads IIRC, the same threading as the standard barrel on an AK or other comblock rifles.

They also make quick detach versions which work with a standard flash suppressor, some of the older versions do actually have styrefoam baffels and machined aluminum components which would hold up to .22 use.

That's why they don't have those around anymore.

If you're a firearms enthusiest you really shouldn't play with airsoft toys that would be illigal if you have features which would be illigal on a real firearm. many of them contain parts that can be considered (designed or redesigned) to become illigal on regular firearms.

It doesn't matter that it may explode if you use it, if it quiets the shot by 1db for one round then you could be SOL if you get too much attention.

[saki302]

I believe the rule for air rifles and pistols is the suppressors (sound modulators!) are legal IF permanently attached- that usually means pinned, or welded. There's a local air gun outfit (MAC1) which sells modulated CO2 pistols, and there is an american company that makes a cool assault looking air rifle which uses a paintball CO2 can, and has a modulated barrel (don't recall the name, but I've seen it).
I would bet the same rules would apply to airsoft and paint ball guns.

The airsoft cans I've seen are just thin aluminum with foam internals- I would bet $20 it would explode on the first shot, even with a .22. They aren't designed to contain pressure at all.

-Dave

[unsped]

now what about the piggy brake? alot of people like them because its less noise at the firing line for them and spectactors ... sounds like noise reduction to me even if its directional.

the same thing could probably be said about any flash hider or muzzle brake, for example an a2 hider has a larger inside diameter than the barrel and has slots drilled in, this would dissipate to some extent the expansion of gases and have an effect on the sound.

i agree though, probably best to stay away from the airsoft stuff.

[SunshineGlocker]

Yeah, it seems to me that I would want to stay far far away from all such things if I own real guns (which I do). As they say, you can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride. I wouldn't want to have any opportunity to have to argue such fine points that we are discussing in this thread. I don't (and wouldn't) own anything that could be attached to the end of a barrel, whether it's an airsoft barrel or anything else.

[bwiese]

now what about the piggy brake? alot of people like them because its less noise at the firing line for them and spectactors ... sounds like noise reduction to me even if its directional.

I'm pretty sure ATF has already looked into Noveske brakes. The total output is still the same, and is just more concentrated in a given direction. It does not perform any frequency shift of the sound into less-perceptible spectral areas either.

Most muzzle brakes do the inverse of what the Noveskes do - put the loudnes back toward the firing line.




i agree though, probably best to stay away from the airsoft stuff.

For any of a variety of reasons - aside from legality, it's just joke stuff for the kiddies.

The irony would be to be busted for having an Airsoft part instead of something righteous. Kinda like getting mugged/jacked for a fake Rolex.

That being said I am really really really not sure of the wisdom of having "too cool for school" features on your rifles, esp OLLs. Fake silences and hicap-looking 10rd magazines are just one more area to add doubt and possibly require, in the mind of a cop in a traffic stop, the minimum a seizure of the gun for further investigation.

You already have a fight to let cops know what Harrott is and to let them know how exactly SB23 is structured - given the DOJ has abandoned LEO training, POST doesn't cover AW stuff anymore, and the DOJ AW guide ("coloring book") is woefully out of date.

You got the legal gun, coolness is defined by how well you shoot it, not the foolish useless glue-ons.

Putting Airsoft stuff - be it fake silencers or illegal Red chinese patent/trademark-violating ACOG or Aimpoint scope clones - is just, um, "juinor league".

[SunshineGlocker]

That too. Guns and toys don't mix. I've used real high-quality silencers on real guns and they're great. Dressing up a real gun with toy parts... I'm too old for that. I'm not even old. And putting on parts that create any possibility of a crime or even the appearance of a crime... there are so many other ways to spend our lives.

[ChuckG]

Clueless and researching as I ran into this thread..

Does state law prohibit ownership of a suppressor if you were to get the proper NFA paperwork for one? I almost know the answer will be no, but still I'm wondering what the answer is. Anyone??

ETA: this would be on an OLL ...

ETA II: OK I found the answer which is NO.. but this leads me to another question. I intend to leave the state one day. I have an AR upper for which the manufacturer makes a proprietary suppressor, and I would like to pick one up before they are no longer available. As a California resident, could my company be approved for the proper NFA paperwork and purchase said suppressor, but then have it delivered directly to a storage facility in another state? Same with 30 round magazines... can I buy these and have them shipped elsewhere where they are legal to keep?

[Knauga]

Make sure to dispose of all your empty 2L soda bottles right when they are empty.. otherwise you have a silencer on your hands..

I prefer the one litre big mouth bottles like Pepsi uses... oh wait, did I say that outloud :D

[xenophobe]

I believe the rule for air rifles and pistols is the suppressors (sound modulators!) are legal IF permanently attached- that usually means pinned, or welded.

I think you're correct on this, because Air Force Airguns does offer the Talon SS which is a suppressed version of their air rifle that is legal in California.

http://www.airforceairguns.com/talonss.html

As a California resident, could my company be approved for the proper NFA paperwork and purchase said suppressor, but then have it delivered directly to a storage facility in another state?

No. The only way to purchase a suppressor in California is if you are a approved ATF licensed 07 manufacturer and receive CLEO signoff. If you are incorporated, the CLEO signature is waived.

You may have a resident of another state purchase one in their name, and then have it transferred to you once you move out.

Or, if you own a home and are a dual resident of another state, you may own and keep NFA items at that location.

Same with 30 round magazines... can I buy these and have them shipped elsewhere where they are legal to keep?

You can buy them and have them shipped out of state, but you cannot have them shipped into California.

[ChuckG]

Thanks.. I need to move.