PDA

View Full Version : Is DPMS as bad as I read?


cadjak
03-16-2007, 9:40 PM
I was going to buy a 5.56 upper to go with my beowulf. As I started researching, I read that DPMS quality had taken a major dump. Law enforcement contracts cancelled for poor quality, problems with being out of spec. Should I just stay away from them? Their prices are certainly reasonable.

!@#$
03-16-2007, 9:52 PM
you can find much better for the same or little more cost.
stay away...

Mag_Rat
03-16-2007, 9:56 PM
I never really owned one but I had a DPMS BB gun and it broke in 3 hours.

Solidsnake87
03-16-2007, 10:02 PM
Let me clear things up for you. I don't know where you came across this info but its not the truth. DPMS does not make a COMBAT RIFLE. DPMS makes sporting rifles only!!!! They are nothing like model 1 or other poor quality parts companies. They are not chrome lined and they only come in .223 unless specifically requesting this from the factory. These are designed to be accurate sporting rifles only. Many law enforcement groups are still buying DPMS products, however, most police forces are turning towards purely combat oriented weapons. My DPMS varmint rifle puts them through the same hole (with 55 grain black hills) everytime I pull the trigger at 100 yards. Once again, these are very well made sporting rifles. If you desire a combat rifle go elsewhere.

Prc329
03-16-2007, 11:10 PM
I have a DPMS chambered in 5.56 with a 1-8 twist. When I do my part it can stick to 1" groups. I got very good results with both XM193, hornady 75 grain and Wolf Gold 75 grain. It hates wolf steel case though. Will not feed it.

It is a very solid upper. I have altered it with a different rail and muzzle break but it is a great piece of steel and I would not hesitate to recommend one.

James R.
03-16-2007, 11:43 PM
I have a little DPMS 16" Bull Barrel'd upper on a DoubleStar lower...has been fine for me. Only grips are the gas block was not properly aligned, sent it back and they replaced the whole upper. Other gripe is the gas block rail is not proper M1913 so my Samson front sight won't tighten down properly. I sort of got it on with shims, but it still ain't right.

That having been said I don't regret it at all because the EOTech is my primary sight and using that it's working great so far.

Regards,

James R.

dotchoy
03-17-2007, 7:44 AM
I've got a DPMS Tuber and have never had one single problem with it. I would buy another one!!! And it was half the price of my CMMG upper.

cadjak
03-17-2007, 7:54 AM
I didn't intend my post to be any sort of warning. I am new to AR type rifles and have to rely on the internet for information. What I have found with DPMS is a larger range of opinion than any other maker. All the makers have supporters and detractors, but I was reading some strong negatives about DPMS as well as posts about DPMS quality having improved. Calguns seems to have a group of shooters that are more conversant in AR-speak than I am. I am just asking for user/builder experience with the DPMS brand. I have not ruled out a DPMS upper as an option for me.

veeklog
03-17-2007, 10:09 AM
I didn't intend my post to be any sort of warning. I am new to AR type rifles and have to rely on the internet for information. What I have found with DPMS is a larger range of opinion than any other maker. All the makers have supporters and detractors, but I was reading some strong negatives about DPMS as well as posts about DPMS quality having improved. Calguns seems to have a group of shooters that are more conversant in AR-speak than I am. I am just asking for user/builder experience with the DPMS brand. I have not ruled out a DPMS upper as an option for me.

I've got a DPMS M-4 type upper for my registered AW, and I have had nothing but good things to say about. It shoots everything I put through it, and the barrel came from DPMS chrome-lined (threw it in for free after waiting 6 weeks for delivery). It is also chambered in 5.56 mm, so if you buy a defensive gun, it will be in 5.56mm. I also got a 10% discount for the upper because I am a LEO (military gets the exact same deal!!) and free shipping. I was charged shipping when I got the rifle, but they didn't charge me for the chrome-lined barrel, so I figured it was a fair trade.

As far as being in specs, the bolt key is staked properly, and the their is no problem with the chamber being out of spec. It is a tack driver, and because I wanted to see if it shoot everything I put through it, I put a few hundred rounds of Wolf and had NO problems!! Quality control and finish were excellent, and I will be buying their .308 Panther Carbine upper for my last build.

Don't discount them for problems in the past; their quality control is MUCH BETTER, on par with my Ameetec and RRA uppers. I just recently saw a LMT Upper posted on the ARF forum that had rust in the chamber and the buyer had several problems with the upper; everyone makes mistakes.:eek:. Unfortunately, DPMS MADE a lot of mistakes, and they are paying for those poor quality control issues from the past. But things have gotten better, and they have rectified a lot of them. I'm not a DPMS "homer" but I am very happy with all the products I have purchased from them, including all the LPK kits that are in my OLL's (notice the OLL's are "plural.":D )

ETD1010
03-17-2007, 10:39 AM
Let me clear things up for you. . . . . They are not chrome lined . . .

This is a load of horse dookie. My DPMS 16" upper is wonderfully chrome lined with a 1/7 twist. I do, agree, however, that they are high quality and run smoothly and accurately. My upper has, so far, not seen an issue with the ammo I am feeding it. Wonderful upper if you ask me.

~Eric

edit: it's also chambered in 5.56. . . not .223

m1371
03-17-2007, 10:44 AM
I was going to buy a 5.56 upper to go with my beowulf. As I started researching, I read that DPMS quality had taken a major dump. Law enforcement contracts cancelled for poor quality, problems with being out of spec. Should I just stay away from them? Their prices are certainly reasonable.

I've been using a DPMS built M4 over here in Iraq for over a year with zero issues on my rifle.

Looking at the larger picture, out of a batch of approx 75 M4s we've experienced three "issues".

One was a buffer retaining pin that worked its way loose under fire and managed to bind up the bolt carrier assembly. This was attributed to shoddy operator maintenance as the guy it was issued to had been mucking about with the buttstock assembly and it appeared he didn't cinch down the castle nut on the buffer tube enough nor did he use any thread locker.

The other two issues were both failures to extract, which were both remedied by replacing the extractor springs.

I had heard about the DPMS quality problems but didn't personally have any first-hand experience with their firearms, so I was admittedly a bit hesitant at having one issued to me. After a year + of usage I'm not going to be a 100% DPMS fanatic and start singing their praises, but I can say (based on my first-hand experience now) that I think all the negativity around DPMS products may be overhyped due to the "crap factor" of the internet.

Some people latch onto something they read on the errornet and repeat it as it were gospel without having any personal knowledge of what they're talking about.

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

ETA - Just to clarify my comments above..... I am no longer in the military, just working in Iraq on a gov't contract. The DPMS rifles I am referring to were purchased through a gov't agency and were not provided by the military.

DJDace
03-17-2007, 12:30 PM
Let me clear things up for you. I don't know where you came across this info but its not the truth. DPMS does not make a COMBAT RIFLE. DPMS makes sporting rifles only!!!! They are nothing like model 1 or other poor quality parts companies.

Okay, so you are saying Model 1's stuff isn't good quality, that part I get.

Now, would buying this item;

http://www.model1sales.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=UTA24CL&storeid=1&image=utact24u.gif&CFID=17945994&CFTOKEN=21461432

And not getting the bolt/carrier or charging handle and only the stripper Upper w/ barrel etc be okay and add in the "guts" of the Upper and a railed Forearm be suitable for a 1st time bench gun? By adding a STAG Bolt/Carrier assembly and say a MidWest Industries railed forearm for about $793 total be an acceptable alternative to buying the WHOLE completed Upper from Model 1?

I spoke with Randall at ar15barrels.com and getting a 20" stainless 1:8 twist Upper with low profile gas block YHM 12" lightweight quad-rail and Stag muzzle break is around $755. Same barrel setup with LaRue 13.2" Rail, LaRue gas block and JP Bennie Coolie comp would be about $1025

I'm interested to hear some opinions on this. Thanks.

Mark_in_Pasadena
03-17-2007, 12:33 PM
Pirate did a group buy last year on DPMS uppers, and I've shot over 2K rounds with NOT one single issue. With surplus stuff at 100 yards it's about 1 MOA if not hungover.

From MY experience they put out a great product, but I will say that the POF upper makes me feel funny down low because of their unique bolt system....

Does anyone know if these uppers that were poopy, were they just a bad run, or what happened? Do any DPMS guys post on our forum?

tiger222
03-17-2007, 12:39 PM
I'm new to the DMPS game - got a TAC20 upper in 308 :)

I'm really pleased to have it (though my 1st choice would be an SR25). One disappointing feature is the foward assist function on the upper. There are no notches on the bolt carrier - a glaring over look in engineering imho.

I wrote DPMS and they said there were no notches and the pawl was supposed to push on the area where the thicker part of the carrier begins.

It does work there and there only - so the foward assist only functions in one setting. If the carrier was in any other position - the pawl does nothing or just scratches the carrier!

But then again, I've never had to use the forward assist on any of my AR's. I would of looked to the f/a on the TAC20 simular to the f/a on a precision HK as part of a silent close system.

Prc329
03-17-2007, 1:13 PM
Okay, so you are saying Model 1's stuff isn't good quality, that part I get.

Now, would buying this item;

http://www.model1sales.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=UTA24CL&storeid=1&image=utact24u.gif&CFID=17945994&CFTOKEN=21461432

And not getting the bolt/carrier or charging handle and only the stripper Upper w/ barrel etc be okay and add in the "guts" of the Upper and a railed Forearm be suitable for a 1st time bench gun? By adding a STAG Bolt/Carrier assembly and say a MidWest Industries railed forearm for about $793 total be an acceptable alternative to buying the WHOLE completed Upper from Model 1?

I spoke with Randall at ar15barrels.com and getting a 20" stainless 1:8 twist Upper with low profile gas block YHM 12" lightweight quad-rail and Stag muzzle break is around $755. Same barrel setup with LaRue 13.2" Rail, LaRue gas block and JP Bennie Coolie comp would be about $1025

I'm interested to hear some opinions on this. Thanks.

I'm not sure of the quality of the Model 1 barrels, but I have heard nothing bu good things about Randall. BTW, his barrels are not chrome lined, if you want a chrome lined one. You may also be on a waiting list. I was thinking of buying one of his barrels but he is not taking new barrel orders to catch up with his current orders. Well at least that is what the order form says.

I say build your own. It is not that difficult if you follow the instructions at ar15.net. Use a stainless steel barrel from adco firearms (unless you have to have chrome lined) and get the other parts from were ever you find the best deal. I can vouch for Adco. I have bought 2 of there RRA Wilson barrels, they are stainless steel and I went with a 1-8 twist. They both perform great and look very good. I have both a 16" middy and a 16" carbine.

DJDace
03-17-2007, 1:48 PM
I'm not sure of the quality of the Model 1 barrels, but I have heard nothing bu good things about Randall. BTW, his barrels are not chrome lined, if you want a chrome lined one. You may also be on a waiting list. I was thinking of buying one of his barrels but he is not taking new barrel orders to catch up with his current orders. Well at least that is what the order form says.

I say build your own. It is not that difficult if you follow the instructions at ar15.net. Use a stainless steel barrel from adco firearms (unless you have to have chrome lined) and get the other parts from were ever you find the best deal. I can vouch for Adco. I have bought 2 of there RRA Wilson barrels, they are stainless steel and I went with a 1-8 twist. They both perform great and look very good. I have both a 16" middy and a 16" carbine.

The thing is I know nothing about assembling an Upper. I have been told time and again that putting together the lower is very easy and rewarding, not to mention it gives you insight into the operation of your AR-15.

I wanted to get at least a 20" if not 24" barrelled Upper, preferably fluted and threaded (not bull barrelled). If I can get a barrel like that attached to a stripped Upper I can install the guts myself (I don't imagine putting a bolt and carrier assembly into an empty Upper receiver/Barrel combo would be too tough). I don't think I would have the tools or knowledge needed to successfully mount my own barrel properly to an upper which is why I wanted to buy an Upper with the barrel already installed.

Maybe I should just suck it up and wait until I find a complete Upper I like, I am just worried that could take forever with what I am looking for.

Prc329
03-17-2007, 1:56 PM
20" threaded will not be a problem to get. I may be wrong but for a 24" you will probably have to get it threaded. Rock River Arms makes from really nice varmint uppers but they are really back ordered right now. I can not recommend model 1 sales. i hear more bad then good. I do not own one so I can not say threw personal experience. I can say DPMS and Stag arms uppers are very good. I also own a bushmaster upper (well it has been heavily modded) and it worked very well before and after I altered it.

This is a major purchase so take your time and get it right the first time. Go with quality and have fun shooting. Quality does not mean you have to break the bank either. From everything I have heard and read stay away from Model 1 sales. Again I do not know personally but I keep hearing much more bad then good.

JPN6336
03-17-2007, 2:00 PM
I'm not sure of the quality of the Model 1 barrels, but I have heard nothing bu good things about Randall. BTW, his barrels are not chrome lined, if you want a chrome lined one. You may also be on a waiting list. I was thinking of buying one of his barrels but he is not taking new barrel orders to catch up with his current orders. Well at least that is what the order form says.


Randall is running way behind. I managed to get a hold of him (no easy task) a few weeks ago and he said he was working on orders from last April. My 6.8 project is on hold awaiting a barrel from him so I'm looking into an A2 in the meantime.

Technical Ted
03-17-2007, 2:10 PM
Randall is running way behind. I managed to get a hold of him (no easy task) a few weeks ago and he said he was working on orders from last April. My 6.8 project is on hold awaiting a barrel from him so I'm looking into an A2 in the meantime.
It'll be worth the wait.

JPN6336
03-17-2007, 2:14 PM
It'll be worth the wait.

I have no doubt that it will, I guess my comment boils down to "order from Randall if you already have other AR toys to play with or can afford concurrent projects."

DJDace
03-17-2007, 2:31 PM
Randall is running way behind. I managed to get a hold of him (no easy task) a few weeks ago and he said he was working on orders from last April. My 6.8 project is on hold awaiting a barrel from him so I'm looking into an A2 in the meantime.

See this is what I am concerned about. I WILL take my time and do this project right, but I can't see myself waiting a year for an Upper. If I have to I will buy an Upper that is close to what I want then modify it myself (handguard removal to put on rails etc). I wish I had the ability to build my own Upper, but with headspacing issues etc I am just too worried I will screw it up.

Prc329
03-17-2007, 2:40 PM
If you buy a good barrel (White Oak, Wilson, etc) you will not have to worry about headspacing. If I remember correctly the headspacing is taken care of when the barrel extension is installed.

http://groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/maintenacefaq.msnw

DJDace
03-17-2007, 2:48 PM
If you buy a good barrel (White Oak, Wilson, etc) you will not have to worry about headspacing. If I remember correctly the headspacing is taken care of when the barrel extension is installed.

http://groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/maintenacefaq.msnw

Well if that is the case, screw it, I will go the full 9 yards here and build this puppy part by part custom chosen from the ground up! I am sure if need be there will be some people in my area who would be willing to help me put it together if I get stuck somewhere :)

I am really looking forward to this build, my MagPul PRS Stock just came in today and as soon as my CA State ID arrives I will be heading out to buy my OLL at a local shop.

Thank you for the advice, I'll shop around piece by piece and pick exactly all the parts I want.