CADOJ Law Enforcement on Federal Installations

[SDJim]

I was talking with a fellow shooter down here in San Diego the other day about this and he didn’t have an answer.

Calls to various JAG/Security/Provost Marshals Offices didn’t provide much help either.

My question is “What jurisdictional authority does the CADOJ have on Federal Installations?”

The last time I went through a Military Law Enforcement Academy (15+ years ago) any outside agency had to request permission to come onboard, and it had to be for a very specific purpose.

Am I remembering correctly? Sometimes things are a bit fuzzy suffering from CRS among other things.

[dwtt]

CA DOJ has no authority on federal property. Federal laws and the regulations and policies of the federal agency that controls the property controls firearms issues. For example, the state of Nevada issues CCW to residents of NV, but if the commanding officer of Nellis issues an order that civilians cannot bring their firearms onto the base, then they can't. It doesn't have to be military, because civilian agencies like DOE also have policies in their national labs that are independant of CA DOJ.

[Paratus et Vigilans]

The CA DOJ itself has zero LE authority on a federal military base, so far as I am aware, if that's what you're really asking.

If, however, your real question is about enforcing CA AW laws on federal military bases. . . .

I am informed by a reliable, knowledgable source that, at MCB Camp Pendleton, there is a memorandum of understanding between the base and the State of California whereby MP's will enforce California state laws on base.

So, if you have a specific issue in mind, such as a specific activity on a specific federal installation, you'd best check with the federal/military LEO first. Go to the top, don't ask just any MP you run across.

Check with the JAG or the Provost, or maybe with the base commander's office. Don't quit asking if you happen to get an answer you like from someone down the food chain. Get the correct answer, whatever it is.

Then come back here and tell all of us! :)

[HK fan]

Looks like they can go anywhere as long as they believe there is an offense:

830.1 PC


(b) The Attorney General and special agents and investigators of the Department of Justice are peace officers, and those assistant chiefs, deputy chiefs, chiefs, deputy directors, and division directors designated as peace officers by the Attorney General are peace officers. The authority of these peace officers extends to any place in the state where a public offense has been committed or where there is probable cause to believe one has been committed.

Looks like its more restrictive for CHP:
830.2 PC
(a) Any member of the Department of the California Highway Patrol including those members designated under subdivision (a) of Section 2250.1 of the Vehicle Code, provided that the primary duty of the peace officer is the enforcement of any law relating to the use or operation of vehicles upon the highways, or laws pertaining to the provision of police services for the protection of state officers, state properties, and the occupants of state properties, or both, as set forth in the Vehicle Code and Government Code.

[bwiese]

Looks like they can go anywhere as long as they believe there is an offense:

830.1 PC


(b) The Attorney General and special agents and investigators of the Department of Justice are peace officers, and those assistant chiefs, deputy chiefs, chiefs, deputy directors, and division directors designated as peace officers by the Attorney General are peace officers. The authority of these peace officers extends to any place in the state where a public offense has been committed or where there is probable cause to believe one has been committed.

Looks like its more restrictive for CHP:
830.2 PC
(a) Any member of the Department of the California Highway Patrol including those members designated under subdivision (a) of Section 2250.1 of the Vehicle Code, provided that the primary duty of the peace officer is the enforcement of any law relating to the use or operation of vehicles upon the highways, or laws pertaining to the provision of police services for the protection of state officers, state properties, and the occupants of state properties, or both, as set forth in the Vehicle Code and Government Code.

But is a federal installation a 'place in the state'? That's the rub...

[HK fan]

The gambling guys enforce laws on the Indian reservations, and those are sovereign nations.

[n6nvr]

But is a federal installation a 'place in the state'? That's the rub...

Unfortunately the answer to that is YES. Most of the federal land or facility managers allow enforcement of state laws on their "property" All laws, all the time, all over? No, but they can be. Can a Commanding Officer say "NO, not here!" yes he sure can, but can he also say "Yes, come on in, here's my Provost Marshal, he'll work right with you."

[Blackwater OPS]

Unfortunately the answer to that is YES. Most of the federal land or facility managers allow enforcement of state laws on their "property" All laws, all the time, all over? No, but they can be. Can a Commanding Officer say "NO, not here!" yes he sure can, but can he also say "Yes, come on in, here's my Provost Marshal, he'll work right with you."

First off there are different types of federal property (generally 3). The one where the state has the most authority is rented commercial property (ex. a recruiter office in a mall), and the least would be a federal military installation which has been in federal hands since antiquity. Most of the larger posts are of the latter and DOJ has no authority or any right to carry a "dangerous weapon".

When I am securing a gate to one of those posts, generally unless advance permission had been obtained from the CG and PM which I was informed of during guardmount (shift brief), they cannot carry on post. I would simply turn them around, and my NCOs would back me up on that unless there was some serious heat from above (unlikely). In reality I let most any LEO carry on post if I can confirm who they are, but I would apprehend a DOJ agent if a weapon was discovered in his/her vehicle during the search. (not declared at entry). They can explain to the magistrate their interpretation of the law...:cool:

[Wulf]

State authorities have the power that the Federal installations controlling authority allows them to have.

[HowardW56]

State authorities have the power that the Federal installations controlling authority allows them to have.

Absolutely Correct....

There are District Court Judges that will not let anyone possess a gun in their court room except the US Marshal.

The last time I was at the US Courthouse in Salt Lake City, the Chief District Court Judge would not permit anyone in the building, other than the US Marshals and the DEA agents that have an office in the basement, to possess weapons, period…. FBI agents, Immigration, BATF, and everyone else had to check their weapons before passing through the metal detector. The DEA agents were supposed to check their weapons before they went anywhere in the building other than their offices…

[WokMaster1]

No SFPD/DOJ allowed at the Presidio. Only US Parks Police. US Parks Police actually enforce their law outside Presidio gates.

If you are caught with a DUI by US Parks Police, it's not a misdemenor but a felony. I've heard of a few getting popped after having dinner at some of the new restaurants at the Lucas center.

[Blackwater OPS]

In my experience US Park Police are some of the best and most professional LEOs on the job. They are welcome on my post anytime.

[CSACANNONEER]

Post Offices are sometimes on federally owned land and they are definately federal institutions. As far as I know, local LEOs routinely enforce state laws at post offices nation wide. Yet, state CCWs are not reconized on postal property. Why is this? The Postal Service has its own law enforcement branch consisting of Postal Inspectors and Postal Police Officers.

[WokMaster1]

In my experience US Park Police are some of the best and most professional LEOs on the job. They are welcome on my post anytime.

To a lot of people, especially the SF liberals, that means that they are pricks.....ie, they are doing their job! It's fine until they get a ticket or arrested, isn't that right?

[Blackwater OPS]

To a lot of people, especially the SF liberals, that means that they are pricks.....ie, they are doing their job! It's fine until they get a ticket or arrested, isn't that right?

It's more than just doing their jobs, I have some good stories about USPP, if I have have time later I will post one or two.

[Blackwater OPS]

Post Offices are sometimes on federally owned land and they are definately federal institutions. As far as I know, local LEOs routinely enforce state laws at post offices nation wide. Yet, state CCWs are not reconized on postal property. Why is this? The Postal Service has its own law enforcement branch consisting of Postal Inspectors and Postal Police Officers.

Read what I said above about the 3 kinds of federal property... Also, unlike military installations, most post offices do not have police on duty at all times.