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View Full Version : Wait just a Durn Minute!!


jdberger
03-15-2007, 12:27 AM
Yes.

I know that I'm slow, but I think that I just realized something ....

Since the 1911 doesn't have a mag disconnect, does this mean that it is going to fall off the DOJ approved lists soon? (I mean, within the next 5 years or so).

This applies to all of the Glocks, too, doesn't it?

Glad I'm getting back into wheelguns......

grammaton76
03-15-2007, 12:29 AM
There's nothing to say that all the guns on the list can't be renewed an infinite number of times. Renewal on the list is just a matter of paying a fee, NOT re-testing.

However, the DOJ actually can mandate a re-test of, I believe up to 10% of the handguns on the roster per year. I'm surprised they haven't yet started using this as a means of harrassing certain manufacturers into dropping their guns from the list. I know they really didn't want the Desert Eagle in CA, for instance...

slick_711
03-15-2007, 12:30 AM
No.

Once they're on the list they stay there as long as the manufacturer pays the annual renewal fee. They're "grandfathered" per se.

There will however not be any new 1911s, Glocks, SigSauers or anything else fun to shoot that doesn't have stupid features added to the list.

dfletcher
03-15-2007, 6:51 AM
Will it then be illegal - as in a violation of law - to remove a magazine safety from a newly certified handgun that made the list with those features? If I buy an as now unknown new type 1911, certified by the state & let's say it has a BHP type mag disconnect. We all know what that does to a trigger pull. Will I be violating a law if I remove or deactivate it? Will I be violating the law if I remove or deactivate it and offer for sale in CA?

I'm not talking about civil liability, but rather a violation of criminal law.

royta
03-15-2007, 6:56 AM
Will it then be illegal - as in a violation of law - to remove a magazine safety from a newly certified handgun that made the list with those features? If I buy an as now unknown new type 1911, certified by the state & let's say it has a BHP type mag disconnect. We all know what that does to a trigger pull. Will I be violating a law if I remove or deactivate it? Will I be violating the law if I remove or deactivate it and offer for sale in CA?

I'm not talking about civil liability, but rather a violation of criminal law.

I doubt it's a violation of criminal law. But a jury made up of "it's for the children" type people would hang you out to dry in a civil lawsuit, should you ever have an AD or ND.

CALI-gula
03-15-2007, 11:35 AM
Will it then be illegal - as in a violation of law - to remove a magazine safety from a newly certified handgun that made the list with those features? ... I'm not talking about civil liability, but rather a violation of criminal law.

No, you can customize the gun you purchased to your liking any way you see fit. It's even legal for a gunsmith or dealer to do this type of work on YOUR gun. However, a dealer can NOT customize the gun and sell it to you that way, or offer it for sale. The dealer can only sell new handguns in their DOJ approved state, as listed on the DOJ's Safety Approval list derived from SB-15. You must first buy it, then have the work done (or do the work yourself). There is no criminal law against doing so, AND further, you can sell it in the future as a PPT or consignment in that mode as well (by DOJ opinion, by the way). You do not need to meet the dealer requirements for selling your firearms, as you are allowed to sell a gun by PPT or consignment, not on the DOJ list.

And yes, eventually, manufacturers will not renew a gun if they have no viable interest in profitability from that model. If Glock discontinues making the model 35, there is no point for them to renew it. The Glock 24 is still popular, but don't expect Glock to submit it for testing any time soon, they have set it up again for limited production - and if they do, it will need the Loaded chamber indicator and mag disconnect.

Para Ordnance did not renew most of their models that were on the DOJ list prior to the "PowerXtractor" models as they saw no profit in it. So eventually, yes, in 10 years time, things will no longer be renewed due to manufacturers having no profit in doing so. If they no longer make or sell that model, there is no longer an need to have it on the list.

A large company like Smith & Wesson might renew a discontinued gun as a Public Relations gift to Californians (so you don't turn up your nose a their other guns on tat ARE on the list) but a company like Baer or Brown may not see a need to extend such costly courtesies. They want you to buy the NEW model, where they WILL profit. The down-side for them is, if not OK on the list, they can't sell you that new model either, which may be the vary reason why some of these models absent of the Loaded Chamber Indicator/Mag Disconnect could stick around a while longer.

One day, they will just disregard CA, as CA won't be the largest buying market for firearms anymore, which is our own doing. (Except for certain AR and AK receivers and rifles! :D )



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