PDA

View Full Version : Deer hunting 410 shotgun


Hunter87
01-07-2012, 8:07 AM
Alot of the areas I hunt are shotgun only, thus I've been thinking about getting a 410 shotgun, nothing expensive but I want to be able shoot slugs accurately. So I was thinking something like a single shot with a rifled barrel. Anyone know if those features are available in a affordable dependable shotgun.

OHOD
01-07-2012, 8:14 AM
http://mcb-homis.com/deer9410/index.htm
Here is a little information for you.


I bought a Mossberg bolt action 20 gauge last year for $80. Haven't used it, but am pretty sure it would make a good slug gun.

newglockster
01-07-2012, 8:15 AM
I don't have any info on a particular shotgun, but I think you would be MUCH better served by going with a 20ga or even a 12ga. A .410 shotgun may not have the needed power to take down a deer humanely. Also, there are probably many more slug and shot options with a 12ga or 20ga.
Just my opinion... YMMV

plumbum
01-07-2012, 9:13 AM
.410 = not for deer

20 gauge = for deer

You could put down a deer with a .410, but the majority of us really shouldn't try...

No one I know of makes a rifled bore in .410, but one of the best choices for an inexpensive dedicated slug gun would be the H&R Tracker II in 20 gauge (http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Shotguns/tracker2.asp) (rifled bore and open sights). If you could track down a used Mossberg or Remington, a slug barrel will often cost more than a break action single barrel (but you then you would have a switch barrel repeater, so that is kinda worth it).

aippi
01-07-2012, 9:23 AM
Not sure all those dead deer will believe your statement about the .410 shotgun.

As a boy hunting with a large hunting party in North Florida we had a deacon from our church that was in his 70's hunt with us. He would be dropped off with his stool, his coffee thermos and his lunch and would get a few yards off the road and sit all day. Guys would come buy and check on him and the party would always go to his location for lunch. Every year that I can remember that he hunted with us he took a deer with that .410

His was a single shot bolt action .410 smooth bore. I can not think of any rifled .410 barrels unless you got a .45 long colt and simply shot .410 slugs, hopefully someone who has one will post in if this would work and how accurate it would be as I am not sure. I don't think it would be an issue as long as you had no rifle ammo in your possion and only .410 slugs. H&R has these single shot rifles with a dealer cost of around $230. Not sure what retail would be in your area.

r3dn3ck
01-07-2012, 10:17 AM
yet again the peanut gallery pops in with anecdotes of no particular utility. Why do people post junk like that? Just to confuse the n00bs?

is the .410 bore lethal to a deer, YES regardless of where you hit it, it'll probably die from the wound. Is it ethical or reasonable for the average joe that would be asking in the first place, no no no.

Get a 20ga or a 12ga and use any of the common rifled slugs available for them. Having personally used a 20ga slug on a deer here in CA... damn that's a big hole but useful range is kinda limited.


The objection to .410 apart from low energy is the combination of smallish bore (for a shotgun) and non-expanding bullets. A .410 with 00-buck might be better at extremely close ranges than one with a slug.

plumbum
01-07-2012, 10:29 AM
That H&R Survivor aippi mentions would be just the trick, definitely something to ask local Game Wardens about. As for .410 slugs, I have used the 3" Brenneke (supposed to be 114 grains, think they are the heviest available) out of both a break barrel and a bolt action, and they seemed to group OK at 30 yards. I never tried to dial them in too much but a 6" group was about all I can remember.

aippi
01-07-2012, 1:21 PM
r3d - no sure what you know about deer or hunting. Seen many killed with a .22 as it is the number one poacher gun in the south. Maybe if you Learn how shoot and you can put meat on the table to.

129401

And no this was not killed with a .410. I just want to show r3d what a white tail looks like, even if it is just a little one.

CSACANNONEER
01-07-2012, 1:28 PM
A .410 is more than enough to drop a 1600 lb cow. A halfway decently placed shot from 50 yards should drop any deer in it's tracks. I took my first buck with a patched roundball. A modern .410 slug is far more efficent.

DannyInSoCal
01-07-2012, 1:42 PM
Come on -

Hunting deer with a .410 slug is NOT ethical.

A 12ga slug will DRT it - Or at least close by.

Unless you're willing to track it for a few miles -

Use the right tool for the job.

Get yourself a 6.8 AR.....

:43:

CSACANNONEER
01-07-2012, 2:19 PM
Come on -

Hunting deer with a .410 slug is NOT ethical.

A 12ga slug will DRT it - Or at least close by.

Unless you're willing to track it for a few miles -

Use the right tool for the job.

Get yourself a 6.8 AR.....

:43:

It's 100% ethical. Just like muzzleloading and archery are ethical. a .410 slug is an oversized 45LC. I doubt you would say that deer hunting with a .45LC or a .44mag was unethical so, why do you think a .410 slug would be?

Personally, I find deer hunting with a semi auto to be unapealling and too many people who hunt with semi autos do because "they can get off a quicker follow up shot". To me, anyone who plans on taking a shot where they will need a quick follow up shot is taking a less than ethical shot in the first place.

r3dn3ck
01-08-2012, 6:11 AM
actually it's an underweight .45lc slug of about half the weight and with a known tendency to fragment. Regardless of what is lethal, anything that lacks the killing power of a modern high power rifle is in my opinion unethical.

I don't care if .22's killed more deer than chronic wasting disease, same with .45lc or .44mag. At least the.45lc/.44mag can be had with a bullet designed for the impact velocities that are in play. The 410 tries to make up for lacking bullet weight with blistering speeds on very soft lead and all it ends up doing is making the bullets fragment and fail to penetrate as deeply as they should or make a sufficient wound channel to promote instant death. .44mag bullets are twice as heavy and it carries twice as much energy. If you're going to pull in side arguments at least have the courtesy to be able to run with it...you're comparing apples and oranges and all you've managed to isolate is that they're both small and round.

Muzzle loading rifles of .50 cal or better using proper modern bullets designed for the velocities at hand are capable of making clean ethical kills... round balls on the other hand were and still are just enough better than an arrow to work but just enough doesn't strike me as right. That doesn't make round ball or arrows ethical, it makes them possible. They're different because of the spelling. I personally think that stick and string is cruel and while I own them and have in the past hunted with them... I probably won't again because of how perfect the shot has to be to be clean and humane.

Some of you yokels really amuse me. You think that just because it's lethal that it's ethical. Why don't you look up the definitions of those words and decide again. It's not bad to be wrong and learn that you can change and grow up. It's bad to be so childish that you can't even admit that you can't defend your argument while staying within it. Your debating skills are fail.

aippi, I apparently know at least a little more than you about ethics... I didn't try to justify a .410 with the argument that poachers are ethical with .22's. Your argument failed when you forgot what you were arguing.

aippi
01-08-2012, 9:35 AM
R3d - Ethic's, what kind of mess are you talking about. Please get a dictionary and look up a word before you use it. You are telling this guy the .410 is not suitible for deer hunting. You are wrong.

Some guys here disagree with you, you resort to name calling. after my first post you commented about the "Peanut Gallery" which is an insult, and now I and anyone who has dissagreeed with you is a "yokel" and son that is a serious insult to a southern boy like me.

As for the point. Yes, .410's kill thousands of deer a year and have more years then you or I have been around. YOU ARE Wrong. Use your head. What are .410 slugs made for?????? Do you thing they are made for shooting quail, rabbits, turkey?

I have been hunting with firearms for over 48 years. I generally take a deer or two each year and oftern fill three tags. I try to fill all my tags with my bow, but if not, then I fill them come gun season. I live in rual Michigan ande I hunt on local farm land and these farmers have "Crop damage Permits" and want them filled. If I had the freezer space I could take 10 or 12 a year. I ask you what is your expirience with killing deer. What states, since the size of deer change from state to state. How many deer have you killed? You may have more then any of us and hunt Africa and Asia and be a Professional hunter, so let us know. I would have a problem with some city boy who has never been in the woods hunting nor never gutted a deer telling me about deer hunting. I am sure that is not the case here so let us know.

Being you can tell the OP that his .410 idea is flawed we want to know your expirience in this matter. Also, no one here has called you any names so stopped that mess right now.
It is OK to pick a little, like I picked at you by showing you my last kill, but the name calling is not cool.

TheExpertish
01-08-2012, 10:13 AM
I agree with JD. It comes down more to preference than anything else. A .410 is a great little round, and it's increase in popularity over the recent years is due to it's versatility.

JagerDog
01-08-2012, 10:37 AM
IMHO, it's capable, but a serious handicap. I certainly wouldn't go buy a .410 for deer hunting. If that's all I had, some good Brenneke slugs would be in order and I'd stick to close/moderate distances.

IMHO, minimum "sought" for deer hunting would be 1000 ft/lb @ the range I'm shooting. Then a proper bullet for said task. I'm not a fan of handguns shooting sub 200 gr bullets for deer, but a .44 mag does OK in the proper hands. Big, heavy, properly constructed bullets have pretty amazing penetration at even moderate speeds/energy. Most folks handgun hunting for big game have a lot of experience/practice. No substitute for either.

vincewarde
01-08-2012, 11:15 AM
In California deer are smaller (at least Blacktails are). This means that:

1) The should, in theory, be a bit easier to kill.

2) They are a bit harder to hit.

So, I guess this means that a .410 might do better on Blacktails than Whitetails, if you can get really close. Personally, I would go with at least a 20ga.

aippi
01-08-2012, 11:29 AM
I completely understand Jagerdog and Vinces pionts. And of course none of ever said .410 was the best choice. The OP asked a ligit question and some guys told him no and some yes. I say, based on his expiriences and skill, yes, the .410 will work for him.

As for can you take the H&R rifle in 45 long colt and shoot .410 slugs through it and will it be accurate? I would love to hear from someone who has one and has done this. Seems like a good solution if it would work as he would have a rifled barrel and rifle sights or could even mount a shotgun scope. Anyone out there who can tell us if this will work????

And of course would your states DNR consider this legal in a shotgun only zone since you only have .410 shells and rifle ammo in your possession.

0331Marine
01-08-2012, 12:04 PM
In my home sate (GA) its illegal to hunt deer with a .410. 20 ga is the minimum to use for deer hunting. I would never use a .410 for deer even if I could.

racky
01-08-2012, 12:05 PM
check this guy out.
http://www.youtube.com/user/virtuovice

he's a knife reviewer that tests every knife he has on freshly killed deer. all his deers are killed with a .410. apparently it's some kind of japanese gun control law craziness. here's his quote:

"I use .410 caliber bolt action slug gun according to Japanese Gun Control Law. Its absolute kill range is 150 yards using my self loaded ammo. I have 8 year hunting experience and after 2 years I will be able to have a high power rifle."

i'd say his videos are testimate to the .410 and a true knife reviewer

JagerDog
01-08-2012, 12:26 PM
http://mcb-homis.com/deer9410/index.htm
Here is a little information for you.



Mirrors my expectation. I'd be curious what his modified 2.5" shell producing over 1000 ft*lbs is. Gotta be way over SAAMI shotshell pressures.

aippi
01-08-2012, 12:53 PM
Thanks for those Video's Racky. Those UMSC knifes bring back memories of the start of a nice collection I had once upon a time.

Fjold
01-08-2012, 1:27 PM
Just because it's .410 diameter doesn't mean that it is equivalent to a 45 long Colt. The 410 slug weighs 95 to 115 grains, is made of soft lead, lacking both penetration and accuracy. Factory loads are loaded to 1800 fps (in magnum loads) so it's adequate for deer to about about 30 - 50 yards. After 50 yards the ballistics of the light slug are so poor that energy (and accuracy) drops off quickly.

aippi
01-08-2012, 2:36 PM
Correct. No one compared it to a 45 long colt. We simply suggested using the H&R 45 Long colt to shot the .410 out of, if that would work. I would also bet you are dead on about the range this thing would be effective at. This is a common range for deer in the woods so your assessment on adequate is spot on. Guys just have to understand the word adequate does not mean best, prefered or anything else.

Yet others are claiming it is not adequate. I say they are wrong. It is adquate, has been doing it for many years and is even prefered by some, not me, but some.

JagerDog
01-08-2012, 2:39 PM
To me, the kicker is, the OP is considering a new purchase This isn't "making due" with something already in inventory.

plumbum
01-08-2012, 6:28 PM
Mirrors my expectation. I'd be curious what his modified 2.5" shell producing over 1000 ft*lbs is. Gotta be way over SAAMI shotshell pressures.

Ditto! And where can I order some?

check this guy out.
http://www.youtube.com/user/virtuovice

he's a knife reviewer that tests every knife he has on freshly killed deer. all his deers are killed with a .410. apparently it's some kind of japanese gun control law craziness. here's his quote:

"I use .410 caliber bolt action slug gun according to Japanese Gun Control Law. Its absolute kill range is 150 yards using my self loaded ammo. I have 8 year hunting experience and after 2 years I will be able to have a high power rifle."

i'd say his videos are testimate to the .410 and a true knife reviewer

I would like to see what setup he has for a rifle/shotgun (heck, I just assumed you couldn't own a gun in Japan!)