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View Full Version : What are the current lock requirements?


ept000
01-06-2012, 8:19 PM
I am the buyer in a PPT right now. The FFL told me that when I pick up the pistol I need to provide a lock. I tell him I want to fill out a safe exemption form (that's what he called it). He says that form doesn't apply to handguns, only long guns. So I tell him I will bring in one of my locks when I pick up the gun. He says that won't work either because the lock must have been purchased within the last 30 days to qualify.

Now I figured he was trying to force me to buy a lock from him but then he says to go to the sheriff's department and get a free one. I'm told it will be legal as long as they write a date on the lock when I pick it up.

The sheriff on duty had never heard of any of this, but gave me a lock anyways, and she wrote the date on it.

So what's the deal? Is any of this true?

Librarian
01-06-2012, 9:01 PM
It's all true - your FFL actually sounds like s/he understands.

See the wiki article section on locks - http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Buying_and_selling_firearms_in_California#Locks.2C _Safes.2C_and_Laws

ept000
01-06-2012, 9:17 PM
Well I'll be darned. Thanks for the link.

five.five-six
01-06-2012, 9:24 PM
the law simply states that you must have purchased a lock within 30 days. there is no mention as to not returning the lock. in practice, all you need is a current receipt from wall-mart for a ca approved lock

ept000
01-06-2012, 9:32 PM
Good point. Thank you.

Black Tiger
01-06-2012, 9:32 PM
I think it just happens when you buy your weapon through FFLs. I purchased my handgun yesterday from Target Masters West (Milpitas, CA) and I just filled out the Affidavit Stating Ownership of a DOJ-Certified Lock Box form. And I need to bring the form and the case on the day I pick up my weapon.

I am the buyer in a PPT right now. The FFL told me that when I pick up the pistol I need to provide a lock. I tell him I want to fill out a safe exemption form (that's what he called it). He says that form doesn't apply to handguns, only long guns. So I tell him I will bring in one of my locks when I pick up the gun. He says that won't work either because the lock must have been purchased within the last 30 days to qualify.

kemasa
01-07-2012, 9:42 AM
You need a receipt for the CA requirement. I don't know that a date written on the lock would qualify, although it might.

The Feds have not published the requirements, which is an issue. The BATF attorney told me that the FFL has to provide the lock or the safe, which is a bit warped reading of the law in my opinion.

So, if you don't have a receipt for the lock you can do the affidavit. The lock is for the Feds and the affidavit is for CA.

The affidavit does not work for the Feds (maybe, since they have not done what they are required to do).

Librarian
01-07-2012, 10:10 AM
The BATF attorney told me that the FFL has to provide the lock or the safe, which is a bit warped reading of the law in my opinion.

That interpretation would require a handgun buyer (who, reasonably, prefers a safe to locks) to buy a new safe with every handgun, rather than buy one safe that can securely accommodate several dozen handguns. Warped, indeed.

ept000
01-07-2012, 10:22 AM
That interpretation would require a handgun buyer (who, reasonably, prefers a safe to locks) to buy a new safe with every handgun, rather than buy one safe that can securely accommodate several dozen handguns. Warped, indeed.

Agreed.

kemasa
01-07-2012, 10:35 AM
That interpretation would require a handgun buyer (who, reasonably, prefers a safe to locks) to buy a new safe with every handgun, rather than buy one safe that can securely accommodate several dozen handguns. Warped, indeed.

It goes beyond that since he said that the FFL has to provide the lock or safe, not the seller, not the buyer.

I suspect that the law is so poorly written and confusing is why they have to published the requirements, as required, instead they are ignoring it. This puts FFLs in a bad situation since they have to deal with the law and a lack of information of what exactly it means.

Dark Sky Solutions
01-16-2012, 9:44 AM
Can someone please give me the actual law that states this? I just did a PPT for a long gun and I traded for a long gun. The shop made both myself and the other party purchase a lock. They said it didn't matter if I had a safe or not. All weapons long gun or handgun are required to provide or buy a lock within 30 days of transfer/purchase of any weapon.

I didn't think this sounded correct but just put up with yet again another $5 charge on top of the PPT fee.

Librarian
01-16-2012, 9:52 AM
Can someone please give me the actual law that states this? I just did a PPT for a long gun and I traded for a long gun. The shop made both myself and the other party purchase a lock. They said it didn't matter if I had a safe or not. All weapons long gun or handgun are required to provide or buy a lock within 30 days of transfer/purchase of any weapon.

I didn't think this sounded correct but just put up with yet again another $5 charge on top of the PPT fee.

See the link in post #2.

The safe affidavit is still good for California. The Feds added a lock requirement for handguns, and BATFE will not accept the CA safe affidavit. But since the Fed law does not address long guns, the safe affidavit is sufficient for them.

ept000
01-16-2012, 9:54 AM
Here is the link that was provided to me.

See the wiki article section on locks - http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Bu...es.2C_and_Laws

Dark Sky Solutions
01-16-2012, 9:58 AM
Librarian,

Thank you for pointing out the obvious!!!!! I should have clicked the link in your post as they are always full of information everyone should know.

Exactly what i was looking for. I am going to argue this point and try to get my $5 on the principal of the situation.


See the link in post #2.

The safe affidavit is still good for California. The Feds added a lock requirement for handguns, and BATFE will not accept the CA safe affidavit. But since the Fed law does not address long guns, the safe affidavit is sufficient for them.

Eddy's Shooting Sports
01-23-2012, 3:00 AM
If the handgun in question has an internal lock, like S&W revolvers and H&K USP's, does that meet the Fed requirement and thus allow the use of a safe affidavit for CA compliance?

tenpercentfirearms
01-23-2012, 9:10 AM
If the handgun in question has an internal lock, like S&W revolvers and H&K USP's, does that meet the Fed requirement and thus allow the use of a safe affidavit for CA compliance?

Yes I believe it would. The Fed's definition of lock(34) The term “secure gun storage or safety device” means—
(A) a device that, when installed on a firearm, is designed to
prevent the firearm from being operated without first
deactivating the device;
(B) a device incorporated into the design of the firearm that is
designed to prevent the operation of the firearm by anyone not
having access to the device; or
(C) a safe, gun safe, gun case, lock box, or other device
that is designed to be or can be used to store a firearm and
that is designed to be unlocked only by means of a key, a
combination, or other similar means.
(B) would certainly seem to apply here. Just don't forget the safe affidavit for CA.

bigcalidave
01-24-2012, 11:38 AM
The CA definition also applies to valid integrated locking devices, but they are specifically listed on the AG website http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/fsdcertlist

If the handgun shipped new with a lock from that list, and its included with the sale, you should be fine. If you are buying a handgun, new or PPT and the handgun includes no lock/ locking device from that list, you do need to get a new one, the FFL was pretty accurate. The sheriff needs to issue a receipt with the lock, its strange that they don't know WHY they have those locks :)

You should only need a safe affidavit when buying a long gun without a lock, both in CA and federal law.

To avoid confusion again :P

Feds say you have to have a lock with a handgun as you leave the store. CA says IF you are going with a lock, it has to meet the standards from the link I provided above, which includes the specific integral safety devices.

Santa Cruz Armory
01-24-2012, 11:48 AM
This crap is exactly why our shop does the lock exchange program. bring us a CA approved lock and we give you a new lock with each purchase.

PlacerTactical
01-24-2012, 12:27 PM
This crap is exactly why our shop does the lock exchange program. bring us a CA approved lock and we give you a new lock with each purchase.

Same here. If customer doesn't have a lock to exchange, I just give them one compliments of the Sheriff Dept. Maybe someday some people will donate some old locks so I can continue to give them out for free when I run out of the Project Child Safe locks.

EBR Works
01-25-2012, 10:50 PM
We did this for the past 6 months, but the local sheriff has run out of the project child safe locks and they told me there would be no more available. :(

Just bought a bunch of DAK locks and will just sell them at cost..

tenpercentfirearms
01-25-2012, 11:29 PM
We did this for the past 6 months, but the local sheriff has run out of the project child safe locks and they told me there would be no more available. :(

Just bought a bunch of DAK locks and will just sell them at cost..

Lock trade in is much better!

ca2azpi
01-27-2012, 3:57 PM
OK, nevermind. I understand that i can use the :

Firearms safety devices are listed by description and/or make and model. A firearm is determined to be compatible with a safety device if it either:

1. Matches the description associated with a safety device as reflected on the report of descriptions and devices.

And the Regal Lock is on the above description and list?

Ubermcoupe
01-27-2012, 4:45 PM
Can I sell myself a lock (with receipt) to use with each HG purchase?

curvejunkie
01-28-2012, 8:44 AM
Am I incorrect in saying that if I had an infinate supply of the Project child safe locks I could just supply one of those with every sale and cover myself?

MaHoTex
01-28-2012, 8:56 AM
Same here. If customer doesn't have a lock to exchange, I just give them one compliments of the Sheriff Dept. Maybe someday some people will donate some old locks so I can continue to give them out for free when I run out of the Project Child Safe locks.

I do this for my LGS. I had a pile of them sitting around so I gave them a handful to help the cause. They were doing nothing but sitting in a box and wasting space anyway.

EBR Works
01-28-2012, 9:10 AM
Am I incorrect in saying that if I had an infinate supply of the Project child safe locks I could just supply one of those with every sale and cover myself?

Yes. Unfortunately, they are not infinite. Our local sheriff has run out....

tenpercentfirearms
01-28-2012, 9:43 AM
Am I incorrect in saying that if I had an infinate supply of the Project child safe locks I could just supply one of those with every sale and cover myself?

I haven't sold a gun lock in like three years.

curvejunkie
01-28-2012, 9:58 AM
I haven't sold a gun lock in like three years.

From looking at locks included in our Sig pistols, they all are fine according to the DOJ site correct? Why would you need to sell one in general?

halifax
01-28-2012, 10:57 AM
Yes. Unfortunately, they are not infinite. Our local sheriff has run out....

According to the woman at my local Sheriff's office who was supplying me with Project Child Safe locks, the USDOJ (Holder?) put the kibosh on the program; so, until further notice, no more free PCS locks.

tenpercentfirearms
01-28-2012, 11:23 AM
From looking at locks included in our Sig pistols, they all are fine according to the DOJ site correct? Why would you need to sell one in general?

I sell very few Sigs. Many manufacturers do not included a CA Approved FSD like Taurus and AR15 lower receivers. So those customers either need a lock, a safe affidavit, or some combination of the two. We don't hassle them about buying a lock, we give them a Project Childsafe 107 China and tell them if they aren't going to use it, bring it back by and re-donate it to the cause on another day.

Jsapata
01-28-2012, 11:35 AM
I sell very few Sigs. Many manufacturers do not included a CA Approved FSD like Taurus and AR15 lower receivers. So those customers either need a lock, a safe affidavit, or some combination of the two. We don't hassle them about buying a lock, we give them a Project Childsafe 107 China and tell them if they aren't going to use it, bring it back by and re-donate it to the cause on another day.
Buying a stripped lower requires a lock? If I buy 2 lowers at once do I need 2 locks?

halifax
01-28-2012, 12:10 PM
Buying a stripped lower requires a lock? If I buy 2 lowers at once do I need 2 locks?

Yes, or a safe and sign a safe affidavit.