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View Full Version : A little help here? (half rant, half cry for help)


Dingoguns
01-05-2012, 1:03 AM
This story starts with a customer asking me to perform a transfer for a single action revolver he bought off the internet. He informed me that he had picked up a handgun on December 1st, so I advised him of the 1-in-30 rule. I received the pistol from the shipper and we started the DROS on December 23 (giving him a 2 day window in between).

On December 29th at approximately 4:45 PM, I received a call from BOF informing me that they would like to speak to me about the DROS in question regarding a "possible" 1-in-30 violation. I returned the call, but received no answer so I left a voice mail.

On December 30th, again at approximately 4:45 PM, I received a call from the same BOF rep that they would be delaying the DROS until I was able to speak to them. So far, my bad; I missed their 2 phone calls, so fair enough.

Then came the intervening weekend and holiday. I called back on January 2nd even though the banks were closed, and not surprisingly received no response (the state being what it is, I figured they probably got a holiday too).

In the last 2 days, I have called BOF what I estimate would be approximately 20 times, at all hours of the day and evening. I have 6 different numbers for them, and have not received a response from any of the 3 that I could actually leave messages on. 2 of the other numbers inform me that "the mailbox is full", so I am unable to leave a message. The last one I called is from the rep who performed my initial dealer inspection approximately 8 months ago, but it gives me some nonsense about "you do not have to dial a 9" when dialing an interior number. I'm in area code 707, they're in 916. How the heck is that an interior number?

Now I have a customer who is freaking out, and apparently no way to contact BOF in a timely fashion. Maybe he was wrong about the date he picked up the first pistol, maybe he wasn't, but isn't BOF supposed to KNOW this kind of stuff?

How the heck does one get a "possible" 1-in-30 violation? It either is, or it isn't, right? And they have computers and records and all sorts of techie stuff that tell them one way or another, right? How could the rep speaking with ME have any bearing on when this guy picked up the first pistol? I have far less information than they have available; how could I have any effect on this outside of sending in a properly filled out DROS like a good little FFL?

Anyway, I appeal to my fellow FFL's: could anyone possibly give me a number that I can call (PM is fine) where someone from BOF will actually pick up the phone, or at least call me back? If the customer misspoke about the pickup date of the first handgun, fine. I know DOJ is understaffed and all, but do they really not have 5 minutes to call me and say, "Yep, he's violated 1-in-30, it'll have to be cancelled", or simply go ahead and hit the "proceed" button on their computer? Am I the one who's crazy here? :willy_nilly:

I really don't know where to go from here, so any help would be greatly appreciated!

halifax
01-05-2012, 6:37 AM
...
Anyway, I appeal to my fellow FFL's: could anyone possibly give me a number that I can call (PM is fine) where someone from BOF will actually pick up the phone, or at least call me back? If the customer misspoke about the pickup date of the first handgun, fine. I know DOJ is understaffed and all, but do they really not have 5 minutes to call me and say, "Yep, he's violated 1-in-30, it'll have to be cancelled", or simply go ahead and hit the "proceed" button on their computer? Am I the one who's crazy here? :willy_nilly:

I really don't know where to go from here, so any help would be greatly appreciated!

What notice are you getting when you log into the CFIS/DROS? If nothing there is informing you of a delay/cancellation, I wonder if the phone message is really an "official" response.

Sorry, I can't help you with a phone number or contact. I went through the same frustrating crap with my COE renewal.

Dingoguns
01-06-2012, 2:12 AM
Update: I fanally got a response after calling several more times today. Apparently the last DROS this customer did was on 11/30/2011. Okay, problem solved. He was wrong about the date he picked up his last gun, so fair enough.

The DROS was in fact listed as delayed, so that was legitimate. The BOF rep informed me that she had delayed it instead of terminating it on the off chance that the customer had a 03FFL and was therefore exempt from the 1-in-30. Um... I was under the impression that that only applied to C & R handguns. Am I wrong here?

She also informed that BOF is grossly understaffed, and that was why they had not been able to contact me in a timely manner.

For the record, she was actually a very nice lady who was more than willing to answer my questions once I actually got her on the phone.

Now I get to call my customer, and tell him that he was mistaken about the date he picked his handgun up. Anyone care to make bets on who the bad guy is going to end up being here?

Dr Rockso
01-06-2012, 2:21 AM
Um... I was under the impression that that only applied to C & R handguns. Am I wrong here?
An 03FFL+COE does exempt the purchaser from the 1-in-30 requirement, even on modern handguns. The transaction should be run as "30 day multiple purchase exempt" and not "collector". There's a big thread on it somewhere around here.

tenpercentfirearms
01-06-2012, 7:33 AM
Now I get to call my customer, and tell him that he was mistaken about the date he picked his handgun up. Anyone care to make bets on who the bad guy is going to end up being here?

Let me get this straight. He claimed to pick the handgun up on December 1st, but he really started DROS on November 30th? Wow epic fail unless you aren't relaying the story correctly. You should have his firearm and some of his money, so whether he thinks you are right or wrong does not matter. If push comes to shove, you have the leverage. Just be polite and let him know what the DOJ told you. If he thinks that is incredulous and wants to make an issue of it, tell him to get a copy of his last DROS and bring it in and if the CA DOJ made a mistake, you will fight the DOJ over it and take his case up for him. He won't be coming back in with that DROS, I guarantee it (well, now it is probably going to happen).

The BOF rep informed me that she had delayed it instead of terminating it on the off chance that the customer had a 03FFL and was therefore exempt from the 1-in-30. Um... I was under the impression that that only applied to C & R handguns. Am I wrong here?This is good news. That means our thread worked and the BOF is well aware of it! Thanks for sharing that!

Here is the post where I explain all of this. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=6967803&postcount=102

Clearly the DOJ knows it is legit as well now.

Dingoguns
01-09-2012, 9:53 PM
Let me get this straight. He claimed to pick the handgun up on December 1st, but he really started DROS on November 30th? Wow epic fail unless you aren't relaying the story correctly. You should have his firearm and some of his money, so whether he thinks you are right or wrong does not matter. If push comes to shove, you have the leverage. Just be polite and let him know what the DOJ told you. If he thinks that is incredulous and wants to make an issue of it, tell him to get a copy of his last DROS and bring it in and if the CA DOJ made a mistake, you will fight the DOJ over it and take his case up for him. He won't be coming back in with that DROS, I guarantee it (well, now it is probably going to happen).

Yep, his words were he "picked it up" on the 1st (and I have that in writing by email). I took that to mean that he took possession of it on that day... he meant that he paid for it that day. A simple mis-wording, but hopefully you could see why I misunderstood this.

He WILL be paying for the new DROS... he's not terribly happy about it, but I explained to him that I have no way to research when he DROS'd something last; I am totally dependent on him relaying the information properly to me.

This is good news. That means our thread worked and the BOF is well aware of it! Thanks for sharing that!

Here is the post where I explain all of this. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=6967803&postcount=102

Clearly the DOJ knows it is legit as well now.

If nothing else then, I'm glad I made your day! As least something good has come out of this (rather strange) situation. :p

tenpercentfirearms
01-09-2012, 10:37 PM
He WILL be paying for the new DROS... he's not terribly happy about it, but I explained to him that I have no way to research when he DROS'd something last; I am totally dependent on him relaying the information properly to me.This is how it shold be unless you did the math for him and were just plain wrong. If customers don't give you the correct information, they are liable for violating this and losing the $25. Good call.

halifax
01-10-2012, 8:16 AM
Could be he just told you what he thought you wanted to hear and didn't think anyone would bother to check. After all, it's just another one of those stupid CA laws. :rolleyes:

I agree, he needs to pay for the second DROS.

kemasa
01-10-2012, 1:36 PM
You are nice if you only charge the $25 for the DROS as the person should also pay for your time as well.

Dingoguns
01-11-2012, 12:37 AM
You are nice if you only charge the $25 for the DROS as the person should also pay for your time as well.

I believe that this was an honest mistake on his part, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

If I thought that he was attempting to get one over on me somehow by giving me the wrong date the first time, he'd definately be paying me something more for my time.

kemasa
01-11-2012, 8:19 AM
Well, he should have had the paperwork and checked the dates as it was important. While it might have been a mistake, it was his mistake and he could have avoided it.

Dingoguns
01-19-2012, 3:03 AM
FWIW, I'm rather new at this, so in the future I'll be pointedly asking the actual date of the last DROS. It's still on him, but from now on I'll be making it a point to be unequivocally clear.

I've also been meaning to post some sort of signage denoting that in this situation, they will be responsible for both the new DROS and and an additonal fee for my trouble. It's amazing how many business policies you have to create just to cover yourself!

*sigh* Better late than never, I suppose...