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SEABUG32
01-03-2012, 6:51 PM
I have a customer (2 party transfer) drosed 2 times and he had nothing in his name(Handgun) So no bill then he disapeared, 4 months ago or more.Forgot about it till I was doing my yearly taxes. Found the gun in the back of the safe.Found the 2 dros and number did not go through. What the hell do I do? Its in his name still in my bound book.Im a Gunsmith so not sure if there is an exemption.Whats the law on this?

kemasa
01-03-2012, 8:30 PM
Sorry, but I am a bit confused. How can it still be in his name in your bound book? The bound book lists where you got the firearm from and who it went to. If you still have it, it would only show where you got it from.

Are you talking about a PPT? Is that what you mean by 2 party transfer? If he did not have the documents, why would you start the DROS?

If it was a PPT, there is a requirement to return the firearm back to the seller or if that can't be done to turn it over to the police.

If you could give more details, then perhaps a better answer would be possible.

SEABUG32
01-08-2012, 8:07 AM
He (the buyer) passed the background check. The first time he didnt pu within 30 days,Drosed again and then during this time he had moved and could not produce a Bill or registration at time of pick up that showed his proof of residence.I told him just go get a DMV print out with new addess and come back.He never came back. Its still in my bound book,But in CA eyes the gun is registered to him.

ArmyMedicMoose
01-08-2012, 8:13 AM
fill out a DOJ correction/cancelation form and fax it to DOJ

halifax
01-08-2012, 8:21 AM
You may have made a mistake by doing the second DROS since after 30 days the dealer "cannot legally deliver the firearm to the purchaser"; therefore, "the dealer shall forthwith...return the firearm to the transferor or seller..."

Cancel the DROS online and return the firearm the the seller although you may have stretched the "forthwith" a bit.

Any monies that may or may not have changed hands between the buyer and seller is not the dealers problem, the Penal Code is.

12082

(a)If the dealer cannot legally deliver the firearm to the purchaser or transferee or the person being loaned the firearm, the dealer shall forthwith, without waiting for the conclusion of the waiting period described in Sections 12071 and 12072, return the firearm to the transferor or seller or the person loaning the firearm. The dealer shall not return the firearm to the seller or transferor or the person loaning the firearm when to do so would constitute a violation of subdivision (a) of Section 12072. If the dealer cannot legally return the firearm to the transferor or seller or the person loaning the firearm, then the dealer shall forthwith deliver the firearm to the sheriff of the county or the chief of police or other head of a municipal police department of any city or city and county who shall then dispose of the firearm in the manner provided by Sections 12028 and 12032.

kemasa
01-08-2012, 8:44 AM
Don't forget:


If the dealer cannot legally return the firearm to the transferor or seller or the person loaning the firearm, then the dealer shall forthwith deliver the firearm to the sheriff of the county or the chief of police or other head of a municipal police department of any city or city and county who shall then dispose of the firearm in the manner provided by Sections 12028 and 12032.


This only applies if it was actually a PPT.

SEABUG32
01-14-2012, 6:45 PM
Yes it was a ppt first one I ever did and the only one so far.Cant get a hold of seller either,so I guess taking to the police chief on monday.thanks for the clairification.Hate to see a good gun go to waste,but better them than me.What kinda info do I bring to the police department and do I still cancel the dros after the time has passed?Months

halifax
01-14-2012, 8:31 PM
Take one last shot a locating the seller. Send a registered letter to the last known address explaining that unless you hear from him it goes to the PD.

Sad situation and, yes, cancel the DROS

monk
01-14-2012, 9:15 PM
This has me curious. Say the dealer has to return the firearm to the seller. Does he need to do a background check, DROS, or have a 10 day wait? I know it says if he can't return it he has to give it to the police but it doesn't say anything about a DROS and all that.

halifax
01-14-2012, 9:26 PM
You're right, it doesn't say anything about that; so, just giving it back shouldn't be illegal.

kemasa
01-15-2012, 7:20 AM
I suspect that if it has been over 30 days, just returning it would be a problem since there is no recent background check. To be safe, I would submit a DROS.

SEABUG32
01-15-2012, 8:57 AM
Update found the seller! Now yes the question is do I Dros? Should I call DOJ to ask without causing big scene? Cancelling the dros today.

kemasa
01-15-2012, 9:18 AM
You could ask, but the person as the DOJ might not know or give a wrong answer and getting the answer in writing can take a long time. Since it has been 4 months, before you return it you should submit the DROS. If the DOJ says that you have to turn it over to the police, then you will have to do that, so you might not want that answer.

explorerdude
01-16-2012, 10:45 AM
So question, how would a Dealer DROS it to the seller? Which tab would be used; pawn/ consign return?? Even if it wasn't a pawn or consignment?

kemasa
01-16-2012, 10:52 AM
Unless you are a secondhand dealer and filled out the paperwork (FDAS), I would not do a pawn/consignment return.

A dealer sale, just like it was shipped in, would work, I would think.

The only other way is to just return it to the seller, but the date might be an issue and putting the wrong date would be more of an issue should it ever get discovered that you did that.

explorerdude
01-16-2012, 10:57 AM
But say it was a PPT how to OP says it is; and hypothetical it is an off roster handgun. As a dealer, we would not be able to DROS it "Dealer Sale". I know from what DOJ has told us before, is that the seller can pick it up within 30 days if the buyer was denied, because when the buyer is denied during a PPT, the seller has a background conducted.

But it would be interesting what the OP can do in this circumstance, seeing as it has passed 30 days.

kemasa
01-16-2012, 11:08 AM
That would be a problem.

Santa Cruz Armory
01-16-2012, 11:53 AM
All kinds of headache in this transaction..... it doesn't sound like it will turn out too good for any parties involved.

Eddy's Shooting Sports
01-23-2012, 1:56 AM
What if the FFL charges legitimate storage fees which never get paid? Can a lien be placed or does it still have to go back to seller or LE?

kemasa
01-23-2012, 4:29 PM
What if the FFL charges legitimate storage fees which never get paid? Can a lien be placed or does it still have to go back to seller or LE?

The law does not allow for such an option in the case of the firearm transfer being denied. You can ask, but there is really no choice in what to do.

Leatherneck
01-23-2012, 9:13 PM
This thread brings up an interesting question for me: what happens when the buyer passes the background check, but during the 10-30 day wait, dies. Can a legal heir, like a son or daughter step in and be DROSed, since the gun is already paid for? Or would it have to go back to the seller and if the heir wanted it, start the process all over?

rob474
01-23-2012, 9:41 PM
wow this could someone a nervous break down crazy ****

ElvenSoul
01-23-2012, 10:11 PM
I feel for you guys having to deal with this stuff :(

kemasa
01-24-2012, 11:06 AM
This thread brings up an interesting question for me: what happens when the buyer passes the background check, but during the 10-30 day wait, dies. Can a legal heir, like a son or daughter step in and be DROSed, since the gun is already paid for? Or would it have to go back to the seller and if the heir wanted it, start the process all over?

The firearm has not been transferred, so it would have to go back to the seller or to the police. What happens after that is up to those involved. The estate would have a claim against the seller. I am not sure if the police would do anything, but again the Estate would have a claim on the firearm or the value of it.

Leatherneck
01-24-2012, 2:38 PM
Thanks Kemasa! As I age and see many of my friends passing away, I can't help but wonder what would happen if I had a purchase in process when I passed, particularly since I am still active in buying and selling firearms. So, now I know. Thanks again!