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View Full Version : Legal to take a handgun to the range when 18?


Dr. Peter Venkman
03-13-2007, 11:37 AM
I asked this question in another thread concerning posession of a handgun when under 21 where it was posted to the original thread starter how to do it. The thread was kind of a done deal and I got a response, but I just want to make sure so it's clear.

My Dad owns a .45 he bought for me as an X-Mas gift. I am 18. Am I allowed to take his handgun to the range and shoot it? Or do I have to be 21? I know about legal transport and not being able to buy ammo, etc. I am just wondering if I can take it and shoot it.

It's been brand new for two years due to my dad having a lot of work to do and not being able to take me to the range. Now the situation has changed where I can take myself and I'm wondering if I can take the .45 on top of everything else.

It would not make sense to me if I am not allowed to transport a handgun to a range but I can legally posess it via a piece of paper.

x2delight
03-13-2007, 12:14 PM
you can legally transport it to and from the range as long as you have written permission from your dad.

Technical Ted
03-13-2007, 12:20 PM
Also check range policy. Some ranges will not all you to shoot handguns unless your 21 or accompanied by someone 21 or over.

Strange, but true.

Most of the time it's overlooked, but if you make one overt violation of the range rules they might oust you.

Hunter
03-13-2007, 12:45 PM
you can legally transport it to and from the range as long as you have written permission from your dad.

If you are 18 or over, then you are no longer a "minor" and therefore donot need any permission slip from dad. While you cannot buy a handgun under 21, you can legally own and use a handgun without any restrictions. But you still might run into "range policy" that requires one to be 21 to shoot at their facility.

Andrew LB
03-13-2007, 1:04 PM
^^ True. I wasn't able to buy a handgun till I was 21 but I was shooting them @ local ranges when i was 18. I never got any flack from the guys running the range since i was always in there with my dad on alternate weekends and don't do stupid crap that would make them not feel safe around me.

pepsi2451
03-13-2007, 1:12 PM
Just wanted to make sure you know if your 18 your dad could give you the gun and it would be in your name. All you have to do is get your HGSC, fill out a form and send $19 to the DOJ.

randy
03-13-2007, 1:43 PM
You can't buy pistol ammo until you are 21. I think the letter from your father is required also.

pepsi2451
03-13-2007, 2:09 PM
You can't buy pistol ammo until you are 21. I think the letter from your father is required also.

You can't buy ammo, but you can possess it. If the gun was a Christmas gift for him he could send in a form to the DOJ and own the pistol. I don't think he would need any kind of letter if the gun was in his name. I got my first handgun when I was 19. I also bought 9mm and .45 acp ammo before I was 21, they asked if it was for a handgun and I said no.

boogak
03-13-2007, 2:25 PM
not to jack this thread, i have a lil question. when my lil cousin turns 18 can i give him a handgun for a gift?

blkA4alb
03-13-2007, 2:36 PM
not to jack this thread, i have a lil question. when my lil cousin turns 18 can i give him a handgun for a gift?

No, it must go straight up and down the family line. Father/Mother to son/daughter etc. Not brother to brother or any other variation like that.

Japedo
03-13-2007, 3:18 PM
I tried to take my 20 yr old brother once, and was denied. The range said policy was it had to be a parent with him

Dr. Peter Venkman
03-13-2007, 6:44 PM
Thanks guys. Now I just have to convince him of the law and let me take it to the range. I asked him yesterday if he wanted to do the ownership transfer and he said very bluntly, "no". I guess he was too busy watching the Black Donnellys.

pepsi2451
03-14-2007, 10:04 AM
not to jack this thread, i have a lil question. when my lil cousin turns 18 can i give him a handgun for a gift?

No, but you might might be able to give it to a grandparent who gives it to him, you would have to pay the $19 dollar fee twice.

Thanks guys. Now I just have to convince him of the law and let me take it to the range. I asked him yesterday if he wanted to do the ownership transfer and he said very bluntly, "no". I guess he was too busy watching the Black Donnellys.

Make sure he knows how easy it is. He doesn't even have to sign anything. When I did it my dad handed me the gun then I filled out the paper and sent it in, no FFLs or waiting periods.

Employee3
03-14-2007, 11:19 AM
No, but you might might be able to give it to a grandparent who gives it to him, you would have to pay the $19 dollar fee twice.

Boy, anyone else thing gun laws are fun?

Astig Boy
03-14-2007, 12:08 PM
You can't buy pistol ammo until you are 21. I think the letter from your father is required also.

You may be able to find some stores that will sell any ammo to people under 21. But it is against the law to sell any type of "pistol" ammo to anyone under 21. Doesn't matter if it is for a rifle.

Aluisious
03-14-2007, 12:21 PM
You can't buy ammo, but you can possess it. If the gun was a Christmas gift for him he could send in a form to the DOJ and own the pistol. I don't think he would need any kind of letter if the gun was in his name. I got my first handgun when I was 19. I also bought 9mm and .45 acp ammo before I was 21, they asked if it was for a handgun and I said no.

So basically, you lied.

Not a good idea really.

pepsi2451
03-14-2007, 12:54 PM
You may be able to find some stores that will sell any ammo to people under 21. But it is against the law to sell any type of "pistol" ammo to anyone under 21. Doesn't matter if it is for a rifle.

Can you show me the penal code? What does it define "pistol ammo" to be? There are lots of pistols that shoot what is normally considered rifle ammo. You could also have a rifle chambered in 9mm or .45 acp.

Edit:
Found it, looks like it is up to the seller if he reasonably believes you.
CHAPTER 2.6. AMMUNITION
12316. (a)(1) Any person, corporation, or dealer who does either of the following shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for a term not to exceed six months, or by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both the imprisonment and fine:
(A) Sells any ammunition or reloaded ammunition to a person under 18 years of age.
(B) Sells any ammunition or reloaded ammunition designed and intended for use in a handgun to a person under 21 years of age. As used in this subparagraph, "ammunition" means handgun ammunition as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 12323. Where ammunition or reloaded ammunition may be used in both a rifle and a handgun, it may be sold to a person who is at least 18 years of age, but less than 21 years of age, if the vendor reasonably believes that the ammunition is being acquired for use in a rifle and not a handgun.
(2) Proof that a person, corporation, or dealer, or his or her agent or employee, demanded, was shown, and acted in reasonable reliance upon, bona fide evidence of majority and identity shall be a defense to any criminal prosecution under this subdivision. As used in this subdivision, "bona fide evidence of majority and identity" means a document issued by a federal, state, county, or municipal government, or subdivision or agency thereof, including, but not limited to, a motor vehicle operator's license, California state identification card, identification card issued to a member of the armed forces, or other form of identification that bears the name, date of birth, description, and picture of the person.
(b)(1) No person prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm under Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code shall own, possess, or have under his or her custody or control, any ammunition or reloaded ammunition.
(2) For purposes of this subdivision, "ammunition" shall include, but not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a firearm with a deadly consequence.
(3) A violation of this subdivision is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year or in the state prison, by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both the fine and imprisonment.
(c) Unless it is with the written permission of the school district superintendent, his or her designee, or equivalent school authority, no person shall carry ammunition or reloaded ammunition onto school grounds, except sworn law enforcement officers acting within the scope of their duties or persons exempted under subparagraph (A) of paragraph (1) of subdivision (a) of Section 12027. This subdivision shall not apply to a duly appointed peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the federal government who is carrying out official duties while in California, any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in making an arrest or preserving the peace while he or she is actually engaged in assisting the officer, a member of the military forces of this state or of the United States who is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, a person holding a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4, or an armored vehicle guard, who is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, as defined in subdivision (e) of Section 7521 of the Business and Professions Code. A violation of this subdivision is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for a term not to exceed six months, a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or both the imprisonment and fine.
(d)(1) A violation of paragraph (1) of subdivision (b) is justifiable where all of the following conditions are met:
(A) The person found the ammunition or reloaded ammunition or took the ammunition or reloaded ammunition from a person who was committing a crime against him or her.
(B) The person possessed the ammunition or reloaded ammunition no longer than was necessary to deliver or transport the ammunition or reloaded ammunition to a law enforcement agency for that agency's disposition according to law.
(C) The person is prohibited from possessing any ammunition or reloaded ammunition solely because that person is prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm only by virtue of Section 12021.
(2) Upon the trial for violating paragraph (1) of subdivision (b), the trier of fact shall determine whether the defendant is subject to the exemption created by this subdivision.
(3) The defendant has the burden of proving by a preponderance of the evidence that he or she is subject to the exemption provided by this subdivision.


So basically, you lied.

Not a good idea really..

What did I lie about? I never said I shot it out of a handgun.

Hunter
03-14-2007, 1:07 PM
.... But it is against the law to sell any type of "pistol" ammo to anyone under 21. Doesn't matter if it is for a rifle.

This is not true at all. Please read the penal code:


12316. (a) (1) Any person, corporation, or dealer who does either
of the following shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail
for a term not to exceed six months, or by a fine not to exceed one
thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both the imprisonment and fine:
(A) Sells any ammunition or reloaded ammunition to a person under
18 years of age.
(B) Sells any ammunition or reloaded ammunition designed and
intended for use in a handgun to a person under 21 years of age. As
used in this subparagraph, "ammunition" means handgun ammunition as
defined in subdivision (a) of Section 12323. Where ammunition or
reloaded ammunition may be used in both a rifle and a handgun, it may
be sold to a person who is at least 18 years of age, but less than
21 years of age, if the vendor reasonably believes that the
ammunition is being acquired for use in a rifle and not a handgun.

pepsi2451
03-14-2007, 1:11 PM
Damn didn't edit my post in time. lol

Dr. Peter Venkman
03-14-2007, 10:57 PM
My Dad is giving me a hard time about it. He doesn't even want me to take it to the range. If I can get a link to the actual law, that would help. He told me "it doesn't make sense" that all I have to do is fill out the paperwork for it (which I already have) and I can take possesion of it at 18, but I can't buy a handgun until I am 21, or the ammunition to go with it.

Mssr. Eleganté
03-14-2007, 11:36 PM
If I can get a link to the actual law, that would help.

The section of the law you are looking for is PC Section 12078(c)(2)...

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12070.php

12078(c)(2) - Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent transfer of a handgun by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other means by one individual to another if both individuals are members of the same immediate family and both of the following conditions are met:
(A) The person to whom the firearm is transferred shall, within 30 days of taking possession of the firearm, forward by prepaid mail or deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report that includes information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question. The report forms that individuals complete pursuant to this paragraph shall be provided to them by the Department of Justice.
(B) The person taking title to the firearm shall first obtain a basic firearms safety certificate. If taking possession on or after January 1, 2003, the person taking title to the firearm shall first obtain a handgun safety certificate.
(C) The person receiving the firearm is 18 years of age or older.

Dr. Peter Venkman
03-14-2007, 11:52 PM
Thank you.