PDA

View Full Version : Magazines for appleseed


milotrain
01-03-2012, 9:59 AM
I'm going to try an attend the Piru shoot in Jan and if not then the Corona shoot later. Currently I only have one 5 round mag for my CZ452 so i clearly should buy some more. I hate the 10 rounders but figure it might be worth buying two for the last two stages of fire as 2+2+3+3 and 3+3+4 don't really work out in 5 round mags very well. While I'm at it should I make sure to have a few five round mags around? I'm fairly quick with this bolt gun even in an offhand position so I'm not so concerned about mag changes or working the action.

SilentPea
01-03-2012, 10:37 AM
I run a savage bolt action -- I have 1 5 rounder and 2 10s.

At the Piru shoot, Dano(one of the main Shoot bosses) usually tells bolt gunners to run 5+5 rounds (regardless if you have the capability for 2+8).

On Stage 2, it provides you with one less NPOA change than 2+8.

I personally choose to run mine as 2/10 + 8/10 for the timed stages (55s and 65s). My rifle doesn't always drop the magazine free completely and it's much easier to grab the 10 round magazines from the well. On the slow fire prone (5 minutes, 2+2+2+3) I usually run a single feed block, as it doesn't get in the way of my sling/support hand as much as the magazines. Even single loading rounds, I usually only take about 2 minutes to finish the last stage.

Feel free to PM me with any questions you have. I'm going to be volunteering at the January Piru shoot.


EDIT -- realized I didn't answer your questions very well... YES, it is worth it to have at least ONE 10 round magazine. My personal suggestion is to have at least 2-5rounders and 2-10 rounders. More is always better though.

milotrain
01-03-2012, 10:53 AM
You answered it very well actually! I like information that makes me answer my own questions better than direct answers anyway :oji:

I really hate that 10 rounder as it sticks out the bottom of the gun (CZ452) the 5 round is flush to the stock. But I need at least another five round mag so I'll get a 10 round even if I only use it for appleseeds. Thanks for the help, hopefully I'll see you out there.

Milo

EDIT: Just ordered a 10 round and two more 5 rounders. Going to make a single shot ramp sometime this week.

as_rocketman
01-03-2012, 9:47 PM
With a bolt action, we'll typically allow you to prep magazines with 5 and 5 instead of 2 and 8. The course of fire was originally designed for the M1903 Springfield, charged with 5-round stripper clips.

Always better to have a few spares around, though. Mags can go bad, fill with muck, get lost, get loaned, etc. I recommend having enough to prep 40 rounds plus one more if you can afford to.

milotrain
01-05-2012, 3:29 PM
Am I correct in the course of fire?

100 Yards 10 shots on one target in 2 min
200 Yards 10 shots on two targets 2+8 (or 5+5) in 55 seconds
300 Yards 10 shots on three targets 3+3+4 in 65 seconds
400 Yards 10 shots on four targets 2+2+3+3 in 5 min

My inclination, if it's acceptable to shoot it this way is run the mags as follows:
100 Yards 5 in A 5 in B
200 Yards 5 in A 5 in B or 2 in A 8 in B
300 Yards 3 in A 3 in B 4 in C
400 Yards 4 in A 3 in B 3 in C or load these as singles.

(can you tell I really hate that 10 rounder?) I can load these magazines pretty fast and as long as there is 30 seconds between each course of fire I'm not concerned about prepping in time. If it's shorter then I'll get faster. :D

ironpete
01-05-2012, 4:09 PM
Hey milotrain,

We'll be using the scaled targets (at 25 meters) to simulate the ranges (100, 200, 300 and 400).

The 100 yard target is shot from standing (2 minutes)
For the 200 yard target you are given the command then drop to a sitting position, load then fire on two targets (55 seconds)
For the 300 yard target you are given the command then drop to a prone position, load then fire on three targets (65 seconds)
For the 400 yard target you are given 5 minutes to hit 4 targets from the prone position.

While it is always good to have a plan I would say just shoot it first and let your experience dictate how you want to run it.

If you have any questions let me know.

-Peter

milotrain
01-05-2012, 4:12 PM
Do you mean to say my plan is going to totally go to sh*t when the thing actually happens? I resemble that implication!!! Wait...

Yeah, I guess I'm just getting excited, although I tend to do this about everything. Don't waste time when it costs money, read up beforehand and have a plan. Of course the plan is going to go all to hell, that's what a plan is for. :D

Rock6.3
01-05-2012, 4:12 PM
Your magazine loadout is 10 (any way you want to get there) for the 100 and 400 yard targets.
8 and 2 for 200 and 300 yard targets.

You have plenty of time between courses of fire to prepare your magazines.

as_rocketman
01-05-2012, 5:04 PM
Do you mean to say my plan is going to totally go to sh*t when the thing actually happens? I resemble that implication!!! Wait...

Yeah, I guess I'm just getting excited, although I tend to do this about everything. Don't waste time when it costs money, read up beforehand and have a plan. Of course the plan is going to go all to hell, that's what a plan is for. :D

Mr. Pete is on target, as usual... You're preparing and that's great, but you are probably overthinking it a little. So long as you've got "enough," you'll be fine.

The course of fire isn't supposed to be a puzzle, a way for everyone to figure out how to game it best. Save the point-shaving for later. We deliberately don't make it super-convenient because that way it exercises particular skills.

For example, one drill we often do is to prepare two magazines with 2 rounds and 3 rounds, then shoot at two targets, 3 rounds in the first and 2 in the second. The reason we do this is see if your point of aim shifts on the first target before and after the magazine change. Sure, you could load the mag with 3 rounds first and it's more convenient, but you'd be missing out on the point of the exercise.

Anyway, you'll get the hang of it, no worries.

I can shoot the timed stages using an M1917, with many seconds to spare. You'll do fine with your CZ. It's a popular rifle.

milotrain
01-11-2012, 9:37 PM
I think I might have to wait this one out and go to the Feb appleseed at Angeles.

ironpete
01-12-2012, 7:56 AM
So far we have 7 students signed up and a bunch of us are camping at the range.

I was looking forward to meeting you but I know life takes unexpected turns...we'll be there in Feb also.

-Peter

milotrain
01-12-2012, 1:01 PM
I was looking forward to it as well. Some car trouble lost me a day. Are you going to be at angeles in Feb or do you just go to Piru? Angeles is a hop skip and jump from my house so it makes it a bit easier for me to go.

I just got to the range last night for a quick sighting in session with the new techsights on my CZ. Windage is perfect, elevation isn't quite right. Also tested the new magazines for feeding and all OK. Sling swivels just showed up today. I'd like to spend a little more time with the gun in it's present setup. It'd be great if I could do Saturday at Piru and Sunday next month but that's not in the spirit of the thing and I don't like to do things in a way they were unintended.

ironpete
01-12-2012, 4:17 PM
I may not be there but I'm just one guy. Appleseed is a nationwide project and we have great volunteers everywhere! We have a shoot at Angeles on Feb 18-19.

A typical Appleseed covers all instruction on Saturday. Sunday is a quick review then practice practice practice. We'll work with whatever we have. If you can only attend Sunday then go. In certain places people can't go on Sunday so we broke up instruction over two weekends. If you pay for a full weekend but need to schedule it on different weekends, we'll accommodate you as best we can.

As always I would say just go. It definitely helps if you've zeroed your rifles but we also teach you our method. You'll know better how to set up your rifles (slings, etc) once we get you down on the ground practicing.

Oh yeah, we also have a special deal that helps with variable schedules, the Rifleman Opportunity Card (ROC). If you pay for a full weekend and join the RWVA ($20) we will waive our registration/instructional fee for an entire year or until you can hit an expert score on an Army Qualification Test (AQT). Normal range fees apply but I've had people get the ROC and just sign up for a bunch of Sundays. In addition the ROC has other benefits but you can ask your Shoot Boss about them.

-Peter

I was looking forward to it as well. Some car trouble lost me a day. Are you going to be at angeles in Feb or do you just go to Piru? Angeles is a hop skip and jump from my house so it makes it a bit easier for me to go.

I just got to the range last night for a quick sighting in session with the new techsights on my CZ. Windage is perfect, elevation isn't quite right. Also tested the new magazines for feeding and all OK. Sling swivels just showed up today. I'd like to spend a little more time with the gun in it's present setup. It'd be great if I could do Saturday at Piru and Sunday next month but that's not in the spirit of the thing and I don't like to do things in a way they were unintended.