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View Full Version : Need to upgrade!


tvfreakarms
01-03-2012, 1:57 AM
Currently i have a small centurion safe. It only holds like 3 or 4 rifles. But if it's an AR it will hold even less.

My dilemma is that i'm not sure if i should buy something more on the expensive side (amsec, patriot safe, fortknox etc) or go with a cheaper safe but go for a larger safe that is less pricey compared to the "upper name brand" safes.
I could use the extra size safe and spend a little less than spend more and get a smaller size safe. As long it has a decent fire proof rating.

I figure i have an house alarm (first line of defense) and in case of a break in that would deter most if not all criminals and for what ever reason the house alarm doesn't work, i would assume most of these breaks ins are more of get in and out as quick as possible type situations.

Here are a couple of brand safes i am thinking of getting. But these are more on the pricey side. The amsec BF series has a 11guage body and half inch steel plate for the door. The patriot safe co. has a 10guage steel body and a 4guage steel door.
I know amsec is a big company but has anyone heard of the "patriot safe co."? They are based in socal.

What other safes in the same size (similar in size with the links provided) or larger can you guys recommend that are decent in price but not as expensive as the amsec or the patriot safe co. and has a decent fire proof rating?

I guess if i choose the amsec i could go with a an SF series.

PATRIOT SAFE co (http://www.patriotsafe.com/Protector-24-gun-safe-2-hour-fire-1880-2011-LEO-Special-_p_500.html)

AMSEC BF6032 (http://www.thesafeplace.com/gun-safes/american-security/bf6032.html)

Thanks.

tvfreakarms
01-06-2012, 12:41 AM
Anyone!:confused::confused::confused:

WWDHD?
01-06-2012, 6:39 AM
I like my Sturdy safe very much. It doesn't come standard with fire-lining but its available as an option and its very good; its a ceramic wool similar to what is wrapped around your oven to keep the heat from burning your cabinets in your kitchen. Its pricey but seems like a better idea than sheet rock IMO.
If you have a Liberty now, why not upgrade to a higher model? Liberty is advertising in my local newspaper that they are having an end of year sale. Probably the same thing going on in sacto? I thought the Liberty Franklin series was a very nice looking safe with lots of cool features and almost bought one before I bought my Sturdy 32x24. Good luck.

223andme
01-06-2012, 7:56 PM
It depends on what you want. If you just want a bigger RSC and are O.K. with 12ga. steel and 30 min. of fire board fire protection, just get the most inexpensive one you can find. I would suggest a Winchester at Costco for about $500.
If your looking for top of the line burglary and fire protection, maybe a Brown or Grauffunder at $5000.
I personally agree with WWDHD?, and think Sturdy Safe is an outstanding value. Their standard safes are 7ga bodies and 5/16 in doors, but you can upgrade that to a 5ga body for a minimal amount, ($150-180). If you get fire lining its not cheap, but ceramic wool is far superior to fire board and does not break down during a fire and they add another 14-16ga liner on the inside for more steel. Seems to be the best choice of burglary and fire protection for the money, as long as you don't mind having a relatively plain jane safe with no frills.
Just mho, your mileage may vary. :)

P.S.....Other than that, I have always liked the AmSec BF series. I just wish their walls were made out of thicker steel.

WWDHD?
01-06-2012, 10:23 PM
I've always read that the cool thing about the AMSEC BF is that it has the cement fill between the two steel walls. Besides being a good fire wall the cement will dull any cutting tools blade making it a really slow attack into the safe. Thats really all your buying with more money for a RSC, more time to break in = more time for the creeps to get caught.
If I had more money to spend on a safe I probably would have bought the AMSC BF over the Sturdy but either way the Sturdy works for me.
I know someone with a Liberty President series safe. BIG $$$ but an awesome safe with looks and all the features you'd likely ever need or want. Interesting though that its made of 7ga steel just like my Sturdy.

stangman86gt
01-06-2012, 10:34 PM
I've always read that the cool thing about the AMSEC BF is that it has the cement fill between the two steel walls. Besides being a good fire wall the cement will dull any cutting tools blade making it a really slow attack into the safe.

from what i read that isn't true...the cement fill is just their fire lining and it does nothing for added protection against break in.

to the OP I just received my sturdy safe today...way way way happy with the fit and finish...you can read my first impressions in my thread.

mike

tvfreakarms
01-06-2012, 11:32 PM
Well im not looking for the top of the line but not the cheapest either. Some where in the middle.
I looked at the sturdy and its a little too plain jane. I dont really like how they set up the interior shelves and what not.

As for the BF amsec safes i will have to agree with u that the body should be thicker than 11guage. Thats pretty thin. At least 8. Specially for the price.
I may go with Amsec SF series. The one i was thinking is larger than the bf 6032 but the body is a 12guage steel and 60min fire protection.


It depends on what you want. If you just want a bigger RSC and are O.K. with 12ga. steel and 30 min. of fire board fire protection, just get the most inexpensive one you can find. I would suggest a Winchester at Costco for about $500.
If your looking for top of the line burglary and fire protection, maybe a Brown or Grauffunder at $5000.
I personally agree with WWDHD?, and think Sturdy Safe is an outstanding value. Their standard safes are 7ga bodies and 5/16 in doors, but you can upgrade that to a 5ga body for a minimal amount, ($150-180). If you get fire lining its not cheap, but ceramic wool is far superior to fire board and does not break down during a fire and they add another 14-16ga liner on the inside for more steel. Seems to be the best choice of burglary and fire protection for the money, as long as you don't mind having a relatively plain jane safe with no frills.
Just mho, your mileage may vary. :)

P.S.....Other than that, I have always liked the AmSec BF series. I just wish their walls were made out of thicker steel.

WWDHD?
01-07-2012, 1:18 PM
I'll agree that the Sturdy Safe is way more function than form. I also agree that the standard interior is a bit on the cheesy side. I got the optional interior with half shelves on one side and half rifle racks on the other and its very well made with thick boards and decent carpeting. I put some magnetic base LED lights in there and this set-up works well for my needs.
I don't know of anyone that uses 7ga steel standard (and 5ga available) like Sturdy does. Most RSC's I see are 12ga to maybe 10ga. Lots of metal equals more money.
Don't want to sound like a Sturdy salesperson or anything, but I just don't see much in that $1000 to $2000 price range that compares in value to the Sturdy or a Liberty Franklin series (or higher). Over $2000 I like the AMSEC BF. More than that Then your getting into some really nice stuff (Fort Knox, Brownings,...). Are they a more secure safe? Don't know but all those shinny bolts that pop out from every angle on the door and the automotive quality paint jobs sure look nice.
Whatever you get OP I hope it lasts you a long time and keeps your goodies secure form all the bad guys out there.

tvfreakarms
01-07-2012, 10:42 PM
What are the prices for a sturdy?

Fort knox to me seems way over priced. They don't use any thicker steel compared to like the BF series from amsec. I think you're paying for the bell and whittles which don't help the criminals breaking into your safe.

tvfreakarms
01-07-2012, 11:04 PM
Does the cannon safe doors swing open 180 degrees? And can you take the door off like other brand safes so that when you need to move it, it will be easier and lighter to move the body of the safe around?

tvfreakarms
01-08-2012, 12:02 AM
Have you guys heard of steelwater safes? I found some vids on youtube of a guy attacking his what i assume his own company safe. I thought it was interesting and what wondering what do you guys think if you guys got the time to check it out?
I think its good that someone would do this to show how good their safes are to such different types of attacks.

youtube vid 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwpZ2I_jZv4&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL)

vid 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAyp9UpBvGE&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL)

vid 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaSLvBmDfqc&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL)

vid 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6ewI-Wc5Yg&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL)

vid 5a (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCnsDZ4l2iA&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL)

vid 5b (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKGB9OchebU&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL)

NoSmoke
01-08-2012, 9:29 AM
from what i read that isn't true...the cement fill is just their fire lining and it does nothing for added protection against break in.

to the OP I just received my sturdy safe today...way way way happy with the fit and finish...you can read my first impressions in my thread.

mike

FYI, the cement filler is there to provide heat protection. A lot of safe mfg's use plaster of paris or drywall to provide heat protection to the contents.

Carbide drill bits will easily penetrate those materials.

223andme
01-08-2012, 11:09 AM
Does the cannon safe doors swing open 180 degrees? And can you take the door off like other brand safes so that when you need to move it, it will be easier and lighter to move the body of the safe around?

Cannon safe doors, I believe, can open about 100 degrees, and no, you cannot remove the doors.

Visalia Safes have nice thick steel and doors that open 180 degrees, but you can't remove the door.

All the major gun safe companies offer thick doors and lots of thick chrome bolts, but when a criminal can take a cut-off saw and cut around the outer edge of the front of the safe, the only thing slowing him down is the thickness of the steel wall and how much time he has. Most of the break-ins Iv'e heard about, the criminals don't even bother with the front of the safe, they either take it with them, when not bolted down or enter from the side or back. If they enter from the side or back, thickness of the steel walls can make a difference. Hiding it and not telling people you have one is probably the safest thing you can do.

Most gun safes are rated as an RSC anyways, so you can only expect so much protection. To be a "B" rated safe with 1/4" walls and 1/2" doors, you have to start at Brown, Graffunder, or top of the line AmSec and they start at 5 or 6 grand and go up from there, fast.

Any way you look at it, if a criminal has the time and the tools, they will get in. That can happen to all safes, even TL-30's. You can't go wrong with the top end of any of the safe manufacturers, but I still believe, for the money, you can't beat the security and fire protection of a Sturdy Safe. (The only thing I wish Sturdy had was a fancier interior, that was more like other manufacturers, but that has nothing to do with protection and thats what I care about most). Just my .02 cents. :)

WWDHD?
01-08-2012, 11:53 AM
Visalia Safes and Sun Welding are safes that are made in CA (far as I know). Might want to look into them and see how they compare to Sturdy.

jmaglipay
01-08-2012, 12:28 PM
I bought a bighorn safe model E19d at Costco two months ago online. It might be on sale again. My local Costco also has winchester safes in the store.

stangman86gt
01-08-2012, 3:27 PM
FYI, the cement filler is there to provide heat protection. A lot of safe mfg's use plaster of paris or drywall to provide heat protection to the contents.

Carbide drill bits will easily penetrate those materials.

i know...that's what i said... I think you quoted the wrong person...


and to tvfreakarms

That guy's videos(steel waters) always seem like smoke and mirrors to me. As if I'm watching an infomercial on late night tv...AND IT ONLY IS 3 EASY PAYMENT OF $$$.

if you want to see some real efforts look at sturdy

http://www.youtube.com/user/sturdysafe1/videos

ScottH
01-08-2012, 6:51 PM
Not really related to OP question, but my father purchased a safe from Amsec. He thought he was getting a MADE IN THE USA product, even called and spoke to a representative. She told him the safe he was looking at was made in the USA.

So he gets the safe shipped, had it for a couple months before my mom looks and sees MADE IN CHINA on the side of the safe. So he calls the company and speaks to the rep who told him it was made in America... "Oh, THAT model! Yeah, it's made in China. My mistake." So he asks for someone higher up, he's given a number, leaves a voice mail... and they never called him back. He called and left about 3 voice mails and the company still hasn't contacted him.

I just found out about this and I'm collecting all the info and will submit a complaint to the BBB.

It was the SF Series Gun Safe he was mis-led into buying. The SF series is made in China.

stangman86gt
01-08-2012, 8:49 PM
its a shame that companies have to lie to their customers to make a sale.

223andme
01-08-2012, 10:02 PM
That guy's videos always seem like smoke and mirrors to me. As if I'm watching an infomercial on late night tv...AND IT ONLY IS 3 EASY PAYMENT OF $$$.

http://www.youtube.com/user/sturdysafe1/videos

I learned how to weld in high school and Iv'e installed plenty of concrete anchors over the years. I think the guy does a pretty good job of explaining things to people that don't know anything about the subject. At least he shows you as best he can and lets you decide for yourself. (He's his own salesman, so you have to take it with a grain of salt, but he seems very proud of his work and wants to show it off, which is more than alot of other manufacturers do). I think some of his videos are pretty impressive, especially the ones using the forklifts.

stangman86gt
01-08-2012, 11:18 PM
I learned how to weld in high school and Iv'e installed plenty of concrete anchors over the years. I think the guy does a pretty good job of explaining things to people that don't know anything about the subject. At least he shows you as best he can and lets you decide for yourself. (He's his own salesman, so you have to take it with a grain of salt, but he seems very proud of his work and wants to show it off, which is more than alot of other manufacturers do). I think some of his videos are pretty impressive, especially the ones using the forklifts.

I made it more clear in my original post...i was talking about the steelwater guy was smoke and mirriors not terry.

tvfreakarms
01-09-2012, 2:34 AM
LOL WOW i didn't even think about how the videos look. Your right. He does seem like some late night or early morning infomercial or something. Thanks for the laugh.

I was looking at sturdy but damn the prices are pretty high and plus getting the fire insulator is another $650 bucks. The size i want will come out to over 3k. Not sure if i can afford to do that unfortunately.

I also wished his interior safe was nicer. Comparing to other brands like amsec, liberty, cannon and others, sturdy is just way to boring. I know it doesn't help protect against attacks but still i'm paying him u know. But he does seem to offer nice size steel safes. Plus he's against electronic locks. I read that he only provides 2yr warranty on elocks.


i know...that's what i said... I think you quoted the wrong person...


and to tvfreakarms

That guy's videos(steel waters) always seem like smoke and mirrors to me. As if I'm watching an infomercial on late night tv...AND IT ONLY IS 3 EASY PAYMENT OF $$$.

if you want to see some real efforts look at sturdy

http://www.youtube.com/user/sturdysafe1/videos

tvfreakarms
01-09-2012, 2:36 AM
WHAT???? I was looking into the SF series model. I was going to go with the BF but they are little more pricey. Plus i can go a little bigger with SF model. WOW good to know. That's a shame. You should send something BBB. Plz do.

Not really related to OP question, but my father purchased a safe from Amsec. He thought he was getting a MADE IN THE USA product, even called and spoke to a representative. She told him the safe he was looking at was made in the USA.

So he gets the safe shipped, had it for a couple months before my mom looks and sees MADE IN CHINA on the side of the safe. So he calls the company and speaks to the rep who told him it was made in America... "Oh, THAT model! Yeah, it's made in China. My mistake." So he asks for someone higher up, he's given a number, leaves a voice mail... and they never called him back. He called and left about 3 voice mails and the company still hasn't contacted him.

I just found out about this and I'm collecting all the info and will submit a complaint to the BBB.

It was the SF Series Gun Safe he was mis-led into buying. The SF series is made in China.

tvfreakarms
01-09-2012, 2:38 AM
Now does bighorn or cannon safes outsource their products?

WWDHD?
01-09-2012, 8:51 AM
Bighorn safes are made in China for Rhino safes. I've read some good reviews on them. Some are made of 10ga steel. I have no idea where Cannon safes are made. Reviews I've read on Cannon indicate they're quality and CS has slipped in the last few years.
I think I asked this earlier, but OP why don't you look into another Liberty safe? Lots of other models after the Centurion that you have now. They are good all-around safes: decent security, nice interiors and some fire protection.

tvfreakarms
01-12-2012, 2:55 AM
I think the liberty's are overpriced. I'm thinking of trying out steelwater. Even though that guy sounded like a bad infomercial their safes seems to be some what good. It was nice to seem him trying to destroy his safe.


Bighorn safes are made in China for Rhino safes. I've read some good reviews on them. Some are made of 10ga steel. I have no idea where Cannon safes are made. Reviews I've read on Cannon indicate they're quality and CS has slipped in the last few years.
I think I asked this earlier, but OP why don't you look into another Liberty safe? Lots of other models after the Centurion that you have now. They are good all-around safes: decent security, nice interiors and some fire protection.