PDA

View Full Version : Consignment Sales Issues


gr8dragon88
01-02-2012, 12:10 PM
Turner's has been one of my favorite places to shop for firearms, ammo, etc... However, there are some issues/improvements that I'd like to see addressed soon:

1. Consignments hold/no hold: Turner's used to hold consignments over the phone and depending on who's in charge/spoke with, this can be between hours to days. Lately, I've been told by many stores they cannot hold consignments anymore. Yet, some stores are still doing it which added more confusions. For example, recently I called a store 50 miles away to confirm the item was still available and was told by a manager "not to worry, it should be here" when I told him how far I am from the store. After spending hours in LA traffic and waited another 30 min. at the store since they can't talk unless you have a number and it's your turn, I'm told the item was sold...:-(

(BTW - the item is still listed on the web site weeks after it's supposedly sold.)


2. 30+ days hold: Turner's make customers pay in full for consignments at the time of sales (if you're lucky to get what you came for), yet they will hold it for 30 days before allowing the DROS. This means up to 40 days and 3 round trips to the store to complete the purchase/paperwork and depending how far the store is located, it could be quite expensive. For contrast, I've purchased consignments from other dealers who only require a down payment until it's picked up.

3. DROS: Turner's doesn't allow customers to submit "soft" DROS, which they used to. This is one more of their conservative processes that make informed customers unhappy since it's not illegal and are being done by many other dealers, who allows the DROS paperwork to be completed and submit before the 30 days hold expired so I don't have to make 3 round trips and wait 40+ days.

So Turner's, what say you??

socalbowhunter
01-03-2012, 1:40 AM
I don't work for Turners, but I have quite a bit of knowledge of their procedures. Please allow me to answer your questions/complaints to the best of my ability.

1. Customer who put a gun on consignment don't want the store to pull their gun with a "promise" that someone is coming down to buy it. What if the salesman puts it on hold for you for 3 days and you never show up. And sometime in that 3 day period, someone comes into the store looking for that exact gun but it's in the back waiting for you? Then the guns sits around and doesn't get sold and the person who is selling it on consignment waits even longer to get paid.
2. Pretty much the same as #1. If you put a deposit down and then don't come in once the 30 days has passed, the transaction can't be completed and the seller can't get their money. A consignment means that the store is displaying the gun and the owner doesn't get paid until the gun leaves the store with the new owner.
3. If you DROS a handgun during the 30 day hold, what happens when the gun comes back as stolen? The reason that stores have to wait 30 days to sell a used or consignment gun is so that the firearm information can be sent to the local PD to run a check on the legality of said firearm. If it comes back stolen, you are already in DROS, which means you lose money and get pissed off at Turners for no reason other than you're impatient.

freonr22
01-03-2012, 1:44 AM
Silly question..why does the pd get involved?whywouldntthe doj ATF bof do that?

Ed_Hazard
01-03-2012, 1:57 AM
Silly question..why does the pd get involved?whywouldntthe doj ATF bof do that?

Regardless of which LEA actually does the check, it's on a 30day hold like in pawn shops to make sure it has a clean bill of health.

How would you like to go in buy a consinment/used gun and then be informed you have to surrender it because it comes back as stolen?

As far as the numbeer of trips invoolved well theirin lies the rub. You have to ask yourself if the juice is worth the squeeze. ;)

gr8dragon88
01-03-2012, 8:39 AM
These are all good responses/feedback and I was aware of the risks of submitting a DROS before the 30 days hold expired.

I also have some ideas on how Turner's could change their consignment policy/process to make them better but wanted to see what their responses are to my questions.

Turner's Outdoorsman
01-03-2012, 3:15 PM
Turner's has been one of my favorite places to shop for firearms, ammo, etc... However, there are some issues/improvements that I'd like to see addressed soon:

1. Consignments hold/no hold: Turner's used to hold consignments over the phone and depending on who's in charge/spoke with, this can be between hours to days. Lately, I've been told by many stores they cannot hold consignments anymore. Yet, some stores are still doing it which added more confusions. For example, recently I called a store 50 miles away to confirm the item was still available and was told by a manager "not to worry, it should be here" when I told him how far I am from the store... I'm told the item was sold...

(BTW - the item is still listed on the web site weeks after it's supposedly sold.)


We are no longer holding consignments but someone obviously dropped the ball twice in the situation you describe- they shouldn't have held the gun perhaps, but once they committed to doing so, they needed to actually hold it for you. Yes, they need to be on the same page and yes, they need to keep their online rack up to date as well.

BTW, we quit holding them for customers based on customer feedback here on CGN and via e-mail and phone. Folks were tying up guns with no payment and then backing out, while folks who wanted to buy those guns were pushed aside while the "holder" made their decision. As noted by other CGN folks that also impacts the consignee.



2. 30+ days hold: Turner's make customers pay in full for consignments at the time of sales .. yet they will hold it for 30 days before allowing the DROS. This means up to 40 days and 3 round trips to the store to complete the purchase/paperwork and depending how far the store is located, it could be quite expensive. For contrast, I've purchased consignments from other dealers who only require a down payment until it's picked up.



On used or new guns, we've started allowing DROS at time of partial payment, again, based on some good feedback from CGN members. On consignments, though, we ask for payment in full as a service/courtesy to our consignees in order to find them a committed buyer ASAP.



3. DROS: Turner's doesn't allow customers to submit "soft" DROS, which they used to. This is one more of their conservative processes that make informed customers unhappy since it's not illegal and are being done by many other dealers, who allows the DROS paperwork to be completed and submit before the 30 days hold expired so I don't have to make 3 round trips and wait 40+ days.



We will actually DROS a paid-in-full consignment at 20 days, so that you can pick it up right at the end of the 30-day hold. DROS'ing it earlier only shortens the buyers DROS pick-up window. And you're correct, we don't use the DROS worksheet to DROS 30 days in advance; it may not be illegal but it's not something we'll do.

gr8dragon88
01-04-2012, 12:26 AM
We are no longer holding consignments but someone obviously dropped the ball twice in the situation you describe- they shouldn't have held the gun perhaps, but once they committed to doing so, they needed to actually hold it for you. Yes, they need to be on the same page and yes, they need to keep their online rack up to date as well.

BTW, we quit holding them for customers based on customer feedback here on CGN and via e-mail and phone. Folks were tying up guns with no payment and then backing out, while folks who wanted to buy those guns were pushed aside while the "holder" made their decision. As noted by other CGN folks that also impacts the consignee.


On used or new guns, we've started allowing DROS at time of partial payment, again, based on some good feedback from CGN members. On consignments, though, we ask for payment in full as a service/courtesy to our consignees in order to find them a committed buyer ASAP.


We will actually DROS a paid-in-full consignment at 20 days, so that you can pick it up right at the end of the 30-day hold. DROS'ing it earlier only shortens the buyers DROS pick-up window. And you're correct, we don't use the DROS worksheet to DROS 30 days in advance; it may not be illegal but it's not something we'll do.

How about allowing your existing customers to place a hold for 2 hours over the phone or web with their driver license/account # and have a 3 strikes rule for no show?

If someone backs out of a signed deal, don't they owe $50 or 30% of the total amount?

This should weed out the non serious buyers from holding stuff since they have some skin in the game and you know who they are from your system. It would also expand the potential serious buyers pool from other locations since they know the item is going to be there.

Regarding the "soft" DROS, I was referring to the ability to complete the 4473/worksheet at the time of purchase and have it submitted at a later date without having to return to the store. I was able to have this done by 2 Turner's locations before and at other FFLs.

I was not aware of Turner's allowing DROS to start on partial new/used and 20 days hold for full payment consignment sales so that's good news. Hopefully this has been communicated to all stores.

Garand1911
01-04-2012, 12:58 PM
Hell NO to consignment holds -- the first one with cash in hand WINS!

phone hold and 3 strikes is very difficult to keep track of, and enforce, across a dozen stores.
if i show up for a gun and its being held, then i become the number 2 or 3 interested persons in the gun, i have to wait HOURS(?) for the first guy to decide yea or nay, then turners has to call me and i drive back down there? That is huge pain in the rear, what if i want the gun but cant come down for 2 days, do they hold it or not?

it becomes a huge logistical nightmare for turners to create a "fair system", which is really only fair to the person that holds the gun first, not anyone else or turners.

Magnum Johnson
01-04-2012, 6:52 PM
How about allowing your existing customers to place a hold for 2 hours over the phone or web with their driver license/account # and have a 3 strikes rule for no show?

If someone backs out of a signed deal, don't they owe $50 or 30% of the total amount?

This should weed out the non serious buyers from holding stuff since they have some skin in the game and you know who they are from your system. It would also expand the potential serious buyers pool from other locations since they know the item is going to be there.

Regarding the "soft" DROS, I was referring to the ability to complete the 4473/worksheet at the time of purchase and have it submitted at a later date without having to return to the store. I was able to have this done by 2 Turner's locations before and at other FFLs.

I was not aware of Turner's allowing DROS to start on partial new/used and 20 days hold for full payment consignment sales so that's good news. Hopefully this has been communicated to all stores.


Filling out a form 4473 does not start a DROS it would just save you the 2 mins needed to fill out the form when you came into the dealer to start the DROS.

gr8dragon88
01-05-2012, 8:15 AM
Filling out a form 4473 does not start a DROS it would just save you the 2 mins needed to fill out the form when you came into the dealer to start the DROS.

that's correct. unless you live 50 miles away from the store and have to wait 30 mins. to 1 hour to get help once you there, then another 30 mins. to 1 hour for the clerks to do their work.

Magnum Johnson
01-05-2012, 8:41 AM
that's correct. unless you live 50 miles away from the store and have to wait 30 mins. to 1 hour to get help once you there, then another 30 mins. to 1 hour for the clerks to do their work.


Distance and wait time does not change the function of a federal form.

gr8dragon88
01-05-2012, 9:49 PM
Distance and wait time does not change the function of a federal form.

how is filling out the 4473 at the time of sales and submitting it later change the function of the Fed form? please specify where in US code, CA penal code or even city code to backup your statement.

gr8dragon88
01-05-2012, 11:52 PM
We will actually DROS a paid-in-full consignment at 20 days, so that you can pick it up right at the end of the 30-day hold.

I went to a local Turner's tonight 1/5/12 and ended up getting a consignment. Paid for it in full but won't be able to start the DROS until 2/2/12. If I start the DROS on 2/2, the earliest pick up is 2/12 and the seller probably won't get the money until late February.

The clerk said they have not been told to allow the DROS a paid-in-full consignment at 20 days policy.

Magnum Johnson
01-06-2012, 12:38 AM
how is filling out the 4473 at the time of sales and submitting it later change the function of the Fed form? please specify where in US code, CA penal code or even city code to backup your statement.

Penal, I doubt it, anal is how I would describe the feds and their 4473 form.

A 4437 form is not "submitted" and as per FEDERAL law it needs to be filled out every time a gun is "delivered" by a dealer in any state. Your confusing the 4473 and the CA DROS process as well as assuming that filling out a 4473 starts your wait.

Turner's Outdoorsman
01-06-2012, 10:47 AM
Hell NO to consignment holds -- the first one with cash in hand WINS!

... which is really only fair to the person that holds the gun first, not anyone else or turners.

Agreed; again based on collective CGN feedback, consignments are first in person, first sold....

Turner's Outdoorsman
01-06-2012, 10:48 AM
...

The clerk said they have not been told to allow the DROS a paid-in-full consignment at 20 days policy.

PM sent.

Turner's Outdoorsman
01-06-2012, 10:59 AM
....Regarding the "soft" DROS, I was referring to the ability to complete the 4473/worksheet at the time of purchase and have it submitted at a later date without having to return to the store....



We do not use the DROS worksheet except where it was advised for use by DOJ when we started electronic DROS's so many years ago.

We know that some newer dealers will apply those "soft DROS's" to some pretty interesting utility, we will continue to utilize them as we always have.

Turner's Outdoorsman
01-06-2012, 11:05 AM
Penal, I doubt it, anal is how I would describe the feds and their 4473 form.



:D



A 4437 form is not "submitted" and as per FEDERAL law it needs to be filled out every time a gun is "delivered" by a dealer in any state. Your confusing the 4473 and the CA DROS process as well as assuming that filling out a 4473 starts your wait.

We fill out the first sections of the 4473 at the time we initiate DROS. In those case where we have reason to use the DROS worksheet, we will have the first sections of the 4473 completed at that same time.

Joey_H
01-06-2012, 3:41 PM
Here's my method for Turner's consignment guns, its simple and it works. I call the store a couple of minutes before they close. "Do you still have this particular gun??" If they say yes I'm at the Turner's promptly the next morning before they open. As soon as that door is unlocked I shove aside old folks and the infirm and scuttle my way to the used gun display and say, "I want that one!!". "Here's my license, car registration, HSC card, DNA sample, letter from my Mom, etc."
I too have driven to some of the far-away Turner's only to get beat out by someone else that was closer. I guess it's part of the game. That's when I initiated my plan above. :D

gr8dragon88
01-08-2012, 11:57 PM
Here's my method for Turner's consignment guns, its simple and it works. I call the store a couple of minutes before they close. "Do you still have this particular gun??" If they say yes I'm at the Turner's promptly the next morning before they open. As soon as that door is unlocked I shove aside old folks and the infirm and scuttle my way to the used gun display and say, "I want that one!!". "Here's my license, car registration, HSC card, DNA sample, letter from my Mom, etc."
I too have driven to some of the far-away Turner's only to get beat out by someone else that was closer. I guess it's part of the game. That's when I initiated my plan above. :D

not sure if Turner's wants to be like Walmart... ;-)

I've been impress how well most people behave at gun shows/stores.

gr8dragon88
01-09-2012, 12:45 AM
Penal, I doubt it, anal is how I would describe the feds and their 4473 form.

A 4437 form is not "submitted" and as per FEDERAL law it needs to be filled out every time a gun is "delivered" by a dealer in any state. Your confusing the 4473 and the CA DROS process as well as assuming that filling out a 4473 starts your wait.

I agree with you there. However, Turner's policy is to have buyers fill out/sign section A of the 4473 and begin the CA DROS submission at the same time, even though it's not required by Federal and state laws to do so, which for most people that equates to one process.

It's sad that there's so much misinformation out there about firearms laws among the "experts", on top of the constant bad mouthing from the press, calling everything (from a hunting rifle to a .22 rimfire rifle) assault weapons, and the general public's lack of knowledge that make it harder than it should be to purchase/own firearms.