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02supervic
03-12-2007, 3:57 AM
As a Federal LEO I can walk into a gun shop and buy/carry high caps for my pistols. Does the same apply for AR rifles or does the AW laws preclude everything?

tenpercentfirearms
03-12-2007, 5:22 AM
You can buy whatever you want as long as you have your ID and it is for "duty use".

homerm14
03-12-2007, 8:07 AM
You can buy whatever you want as long as you have your ID and it is for "duty use".

I'm not sure about the "duty use" part. As far as I know you can buy hi caps for an off duty wepon as well. If I am incorrect please let me know.

SigShooter
03-12-2007, 8:20 AM
I think it depends on the retailer. I believe that LEO are only supposed to be able to buy standard capacity magazines for duty weapons, but a lot of retailers will let them walk out with whatever after verifying their ID.

I could be wrong as I am going off of information from personally known LEO's, and we all know that they are a fount of information when it comes to law ;)

Mute
03-12-2007, 8:26 AM
AFAIK they only need LEO ID and not some formal letterhead letter written by the buyer's department, so I don't know how they can determine that it's for duty use.

homerm14
03-12-2007, 8:43 AM
I think it depends on the retailer. I believe that LEO are only supposed to be able to buy standard capacity magazines for duty use, but a lot of retailers will let them walk out with whatever after verifying their ID.

I could be wrong as I am going off of information from personally known LEO's, and we all know that they are a fount of information when it comes to law ;)

I am an LEO and I have purchased "standard capacity" magazines with my police ID. I have only purchased mags for duty use, however no one has ever asked me what they were for. I will admit I don't know every law on the book which is why I said correct me if I'm wrong. When I go back to work I'll look it up. I suppose the issue would be what if I carry my duty weapon off duty? Should I not use the "standard capacity" magazines? That would make no sense at all, but what do I know a lot of laws make no sense.

SigShooter
03-12-2007, 9:01 AM
I am an LEO and I have purchased "standard capacity" magazines with my police ID. I have only purchased mags for duty use, however no one has ever asked me what they were for. I will admit I don't know every law on the book which is why I said correct me if I'm wrong. When I go back to work I'll look it up. I suppose the issue would be what if I carry my duty weapon off duty? Should I not use the "standard capacity" magazines? That would make no sense at all, but what do I know a lot of laws make no sense.

I should edit my post. By duty use, I really meant their duty weapon. I know a lot of LEOs that carry their duty weapon while off duty.

And like I said I could be wrong as well. The laws regarding standard capacity magazines are about as clear as the laws regarding "assault weapons" and they are all about as clear as mud.

To top it all off, I've known a few LEOs that have ordered 20 & 30 round AR mags online expecting to have to fax a letter from their department (which they had already) only to receive their mags in the mail just a few days later. No questions asked, no verification of their LEO status made.

ask80
03-12-2007, 9:02 AM
as a LEO, you can buy any hi cap mag with your ID. it doesn't have to be for duty use. you can buy 100rnd drums, ak mags, 33rnd glock mags, etc. i've gone into LEO stores and ordered hi cap ar and m1a mags. no question asked. no letterhead needed anymore.

Dump1567
03-12-2007, 9:54 AM
If your in So. Cal, check out Pro-Force in Brea.
http://www.proforceonline.com/page2.htm

You need I.D. just to get in. Once your in, they'll sell you any hi-cap you want (pistol or rifle).

They also have Surefire Lights at Surefire LEO prices.

tenpercentfirearms
03-12-2007, 10:12 AM
as a LEO, you can buy any hi cap mag with your ID. it doesn't have to be for duty use. you can buy 100rnd drums, ak mags, 33rnd glock mags, etc. i've gone into LEO stores and ordered hi cap ar and m1a mags. no question asked. no letterhead needed anymore.

I just talked to the DOJ on the phone about this. They have to be for duty use. I honestly don't care what you do or don't use for duty use, so I will sell you whatever you want as long as you have your ID. However, if the DOJ comes around and starts asking questions, it will be on you, not me.

So I will order you and give you any magazine you want as long as you have your department ID. Who you have to answer to for "duty use" is on you and most people don't worry about it. However, the DOJ has stated they occassionally audit and sometimes make this an issue. Make your decisions accordingly.

MrLogan
03-12-2007, 11:58 AM
What's the policy on military members purchasing standard capacity mags? :confused:

tenpercentfirearms
03-12-2007, 1:44 PM
I didn't see anything in the penal code for military unless you are an agency.

Dump1567
03-12-2007, 1:49 PM
I just talked to the DOJ on the phone about this. They have to be for duty use. I honestly don't care what you do or don't use for duty use, so I will sell you whatever you want as long as you have your ID. However, if the DOJ comes around and starts asking questions, it will be on you, not me.

So I will order you and give you any magazine you want as long as you have your department ID. Who you have to answer to for "duty use" is on you and most people don't worry about it. However, the DOJ has stated they occassionally audit and sometimes make this an issue. Make your decisions accordingly.

From CPC 12020

(20) The sale to, lending to, transfer to, purchase by, receipt of, or importation into this state of, a large capacity magazine by a sworn peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties.

This section really doesn't state the mags are only for duty use.

In my quick search of 12020, I didn't see anything about Military use?

ask80
03-12-2007, 2:18 PM
military , not allowed

1911_sfca
03-12-2007, 2:27 PM
As was just posted, PC 12020(b)20 exempts sworns peace officers who are authorized to carry on duty from high-cap magazine limitations.

However, be careful: as relates to the OP's question, if you are talking about an OLL with fixed mag, you could not put anything over 10 rounds in, or you would still be violating 12276.1(a)2. There is no exemption from 12276.1 for peace officers. So WATCH OUT!

homerm14
03-12-2007, 2:35 PM
From CPC 12020

(20) The sale to, lending to, transfer to, purchase by, receipt of, or importation into this state of, a large capacity magazine by a sworn peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties.

This section really doesn't state the mags are only for duty use.

In my quick search of 12020, I didn't see anything about Military use?

(19) The sale of, giving of, lending of, importation into this state of, or purchase of, any large-capacity magazine to or by any federal, state, county, city and county, or city agency that is charged with the enforcement of any law, for use by agency employees in the discharge of their official duties whether on or off duty, and where the use is authorized by the agency and is within the course and scope of their duties.
(20) The sale to, lending to, transfer to, purchase by, receipt of, or importation into this state of, a large capacity magazine by a sworn peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties.
I'm not seeing it.

SkyStorm82
03-12-2007, 4:07 PM
(19) The sale of, giving of, lending of, importation into this state of, or purchase of, any large-capacity magazine to or by any federal, state, county, city and county, or city agency that is charged with the enforcement of any law, for use by agency employees in the discharge of their official duties whether on or off duty, and where the use is authorized by the agency and is within the course and scope of their duties.
(20) The sale to, lending to, transfer to, purchase by, receipt of, or importation into this state of, a large capacity magazine by a sworn peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties.
I'm not seeing it.

So....does that mean they can't be bought for privately owned weapons that have nothing to do with the job?

Dump1567
03-12-2007, 6:47 PM
19 is talking about agencies. 20 is talking about individual LEO's.

I don't read anything into it. If your an LEO who can carry a firearm, your exempt.

Here's what the DOJ said in Nov. of 2001 in the Assault Weapon ID Guide on page 75.
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/awguide.pdf

Peace officers (distinct from law enforcement agencies) who are authorized to carry firearms in the course and scope or their duties are exempted. This exemption includes the sale to, lending to, purchase of, purchase by, receipt of, or importation into the state of large capacity magazines. For record keeping purposes, a peace officer who purchases large capacity magazines from a firearms dealer is required to provide that firearms dealer with a copy of his or her peace officer photo identification.

homerm14
03-12-2007, 7:27 PM
19 is talking about agencies. 20 is talking about individual LEO's.

I don't read anything into it. If your an LEO who can carry a firearm, your exempt.

Here's what the DOJ said in Nov. of 2001 in the Assault Weapon ID Guide on page 75.
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/awguide.pdf

I agree

ask80
03-12-2007, 8:27 PM
well according to the proforce, one of the salestaff said if you're LEO, you can pretty much buy any standard cap even if not for duty weapon. and it doesn't say in the PC that it has to be for duty use. i don't know how strict DOJ is in enforcing or if there's department policies. I guess if DOJ catches you buying hi cap AK mags, what can they do?

gunrun45
03-12-2007, 11:01 PM
You used to need letter head when the Fed ban was in effect to be in compliance with the Fed regs.
Now that the Fed ban has left us (thank god!) you only need your ID.
Full cap mags for LEO's are ussually purchased in CA licensed high cap dealers or imported into CA by the Officer. I usually find great deals out of state and have them shipped to my department.

When you purchase in CA from CA dealers they usually just photocopy your ID and have some kind of list of hte mags you buy. Never been an issue for me and there must be some reason the dealers carry high cap 10/22 mags. I'm sure its not for "duty use" unless you have an invassion of rabid squirles in your area ;)

markymark
03-12-2007, 11:15 PM
LEOs are always on duty as far as I'm concerned (and hope).

gunrun45
03-12-2007, 11:29 PM
LEOs are always on duty as far as I'm concerned (and hope).

Glad somebody feels this way.
Most of us are always on duty. I know I am. Drives my wife nuts ;)

kobra
03-13-2007, 12:57 AM
The FFL dealer I purchased my Hi-caps magazine has a high-capacity magazine permit. Can LE personnel purchase hi-cap magazine from dealers that don't have this permit? Just don't want to do anything illegal.

02supervic
03-13-2007, 1:54 AM
Glad somebody feels this way.
Most of us are always on duty. I know I am. Drives my wife nuts ;)

Same here. She knows to wait for me to pick where I want to sit in a resturant ect. But anyway back on topic, if I put a high cap in an AR with the bullet button its illegal(right?). If I had a pre 99 rifle I could buy/use high caps legally. Does that about sum it up? :confused:

ts
03-13-2007, 2:25 AM
I don't get why these standard cap. mag threads go on for so long. You didn't import, manufacture, sell, or give them. So even if you weren't allowed to have them, if you can buy them legally - then there is no way you can be in hot water. It is not illegal to possess or use them.

nothing4u
03-13-2007, 2:30 AM
There is no hi-cap mag exemption for military members. Only for "Assault Weapons" if you are an out of state resident and stationed in Commiefornia. For those California residents and in the military, what you can do is claim residency in another state when you are there for training and meet residency requirements there, buy the gun there and when u get stationed in California bring them back. Once you get discharged you're suppose remove the guns from California. And if you want to claim California residency again, put that on your DD214 when you discharge. The state of California cannot deny you any residency benefits if you put an California address on your DD214.

TrailerparkTrash
03-13-2007, 4:23 AM
I just talked to the DOJ on the phone about this. They have to be for duty use. I honestly don't care what you do or don't use for duty use, so I will sell you whatever you want as long as you have your ID. However, if the DOJ comes around and starts asking questions, it will be on you, not me.

So I will order you and give you any magazine you want as long as you have your department ID. Who you have to answer to for "duty use" is on you and most people don't worry about it. However, the DOJ has stated they occassionally audit and sometimes make this an issue. Make your decisions accordingly.

Who did you talk to at the DOJ? Was it some secretary or a janitor? The law states: (12020) (b) (20)

"The sale to, lending to, transfer to, purchase by, receipt of, or importation into this state of, a large capacity magazine by a sworn peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties."

It specifically states that cops listed under 12020(b)(20) are exempt from the magazine ban. Also it states, "......who is authorized to carry "A" firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties."

They key word is "A firearm." As long as a cop has authority to carry "a" firearm, he/she can purchase hi-caps all day long for on or off duty. For hunting, plinking, personal protection, or whatever. The hicaps don't have to be used for "official duties." Remember, some technically labled "peace officers" can't carry firearms while on duty. Example: L.A. County probation officers while on duty. ONly off duty can they carry a gun. So, technically, the could not buy hicaps under the law.

Dumb laws. I feel so much safer.

battlehatch
03-13-2007, 7:49 AM
Can we stop referring to standard capacity mags as "hicaps"? We really should be calling them restricted capacity or liberal-mags. When I lived in Vegas, you could spot a Californian in a gun shop from a mile away. Especially when they ask for "hi cap" mags. That's a dead giveaway that "you ain't from around these parts"...

As for LEO purchases, I asked my friend who's a cop about that and he said most places will sell you whatever you want once you've verified LEO status. He said there are instances where you will want a purchase order or some paperwork to get certain items. He didn't clarify, he just smiled.

ask80
03-13-2007, 8:47 AM
i asked these 2 questions before with no answers

1. can a LEO goto NV orAZ and purchase standard mags and bring them in?
2. can a relative of a LEO who lives out of state order the mags and have it shipped to them. then the relative ship to the LEO in CA? lots of places online are strict

Dump1567
03-13-2007, 9:04 AM
i asked these 2 questions before with no answers

1. can a LEO goto NV orAZ and purchase standard mags and bring them in?

Yes, Importation is allowed.

2. can a relative of a LEO who lives out of state order the mags and have it shipped to them. then the relative ship to the LEO in CA? lots of places online are strict

Technically that's Importation. The DOJ will tell you it needs to go to a Large Cap dealer who you would have to go pick them up from.

Who would know? (Or care?)



******

DANGERCLOSE
03-13-2007, 3:17 PM
i have checked with some businesses out of state and they only require a copy of your id. i usually stamp the photo copy with a "copy" stamp so i dont violate any dept policy, i know how the federales are. i am looking at getting the 10-pack m1a 20 rounders from gunbroker. good to go.

Oswald2001
03-13-2007, 4:07 PM
Just a "Heads up!".


FWIW, watch out for M1A/M14 mags sold on Gunbroker.

Most of them are fakes.

If you want the real deal M14 mags, this guy sells them the cheapest I have seen.

http://www.44mag.com/products.asp?dept=1318

The ones sold by 44mag are Checkmates. Checkmate is the only current manufacturer of M14 mags used by the US military and has been for about the last 17 years.

SkyStorm82
03-13-2007, 4:44 PM
Just a "Heads up!".


FWIW, watch out for M1A/M14 mags sold on Gunbroker.

Most of them are fakes.

If you want the real deal M14 mags, this guy sells them the cheapest I have seen.

http://www.44mag.com/products.asp?dept=1318

The ones sold by 44mag are Checkmates. Checkmate is the only current manufacturer of M14 mags used by the US military and has been for about the last 17 years.

Any idea if 44mag will ship to CA though?

Oswald2001
03-13-2007, 5:28 PM
Here is one strategy.

44mag sells rebuild kits which contain all the parts needed for a complete magazine.

http://www.44mag.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CM20P

They are sold as LEGAL REPLACEMENT PARTS ONLY and are not intended to be used to build 'new' magazines as that would be illegal for civilians in Kalifornistan.

1.) Could a Kalifornistan LEO legally build a 'new' magazine from these? If so, that's one option.

2.) I would call 44mag and ask if they can/will legally send pre-assembled mags to a LEO either at his home or to his department. (1-800-339-2373)

Dump1567
03-13-2007, 5:36 PM
Here is one strategy.

44mag sells rebuild kits which contain all the parts needed for a complete magazine.

http://www.44mag.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CM20P

They are sold as LEGAL REPLACEMENT PARTS ONLY and are not intended to be used to build 'new' magazines as that would be illegal for civilians in Kalifornistan.

1.) Could a Kalifornistan LEO legally build a 'new' magazine from these? If so, that's one option.

2.) I would call 44mag and ask if they can/will legally send mags to a LEO either at his home or to his department. (1-800-339-2373)

CPC 12020
(30)(A) The manufacture of a large-capacity magazine for any federal, state, county, city and county, or city agency that is charged with the enforcement of any law, for use by agency employees in the discharge of their official duties whether on or off duty, and where the use is authorized by the agency and is within the course and scope of their duties.
(B) The manufacture of a large-capacity magazine for use by a sworn peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties.

Same deal.:)

Some of you really need to read the Penal Code more. All kinds of neat info. in there.;)

DANGERCLOSE
03-13-2007, 8:17 PM
44mag was the guy i talked to about the m1a mags, i did my homework. can i get an A+. right now i am just waiting for some sales to go thru, then i have the funds to get them. this guy has a pretty good deal on a lot of stuff. i will be doing business with him for sure.

veeklog
03-13-2007, 9:23 PM
Same here. She knows to wait for me to pick where I want to sit in a resturant ect. But anyway back on topic, if I put a high cap in an AR with the bullet button its illegal(right?). If I had a pre 99 rifle I could buy/use high caps legally. Does that about sum it up? :confused:

Hey, my cell rings 24/7, so I guess I am working, right? It always drove my ex-girlfriend crazy when the phone rang and then went back to a regular conversation after talking with whoever on the phone.

On a side not, I need to buy hi-caps for my duty rifle. Brownell's has the best deal for them, and we get a LEO discount. I usually have all parts that I buy shipped to my agency, so I wanted to know if I can purchase the mags from Brownell's and have them sent to my agency. I don't want to pay $30 USD for each mag, when I can pay half for them from Brownells

tenpercentfirearms
03-13-2007, 10:28 PM
I have high cap C Products mags for $12. Just send me your ID.

dicast
03-14-2007, 12:39 AM
I have high cap C Products mags for $12. Just send me your ID.

how do you want us to send our ID? you dont mean the real ID right?;) fax? email? or better yet give us the instruction how to get a few of those hi cap.

veeklog
03-14-2007, 6:18 AM
I have high cap C Products mags for $12. Just send me your ID.

Where do you want me to send the copy of my ID? Do you want a fax or scan it or e-mail it you.

Thanks Wes. Do appreciate it

ask80
03-14-2007, 7:12 AM
what other hi caps do you have? any beretta 92 15 rnd mags?

veeklog
03-14-2007, 6:08 PM
I have high cap C Products mags for $12. Just send me your ID.

Wes:

I sent you an e-mail to your work address at Ten Percent. Let me know where to send a copy of my ID?

MrLogan
03-14-2007, 7:08 PM
They're not high cap mags, they are STANDARD capacity mags. :rolleyes: :D

CaptMike
03-14-2007, 9:37 PM
Who did you talk to at the DOJ? Was it some secretary or a janitor? The law states: (12020) (b) (20)

"The sale to, lending to, transfer to, purchase by, receipt of, or importation into this state of, a large capacity magazine by a sworn peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties."

It specifically states that cops listed under 12020(b)(20) are exempt from the magazine ban. Also it states, "......who is authorized to carry "A" firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties."

They key word is "A firearm." As long as a cop has authority to carry "a" firearm, he/she can purchase hi-caps all day long for on or off duty. For hunting, plinking, personal protection, or whatever. The hicaps don't have to be used for "official duties." Remember, some technically labled "peace officers" can't carry firearms while on duty. Example: L.A. County probation officers while on duty. ONly off duty can they carry a gun. So, technically, the could not buy hicaps under the law.
Dumb laws. I feel so much safer.

This is mostly correct, There are now 50 Deputy Probation Officers (more coming soon :) ) that are now authorized to carry firearms. We have a new Chief that is the best thing that ever happened to our department. Those 50 will have the legal ability to buy the high caps.

Stay safe