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Yehosha
12-31-2011, 10:34 AM
In multiple threads I see people saying they've heard people have problems with electronic safe locks, or that they are saving money to get a safe without an electric lock. Are they really that bad? I don't want a, "I've heard they are" answer. I want someone with first hand experience to weigh in on this, or someone who has read an article or report with stats or results on the failures. No theories on why they should be avoided either.

I'm considering getting this (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?prodid=11625662&whse=BC&topnav=&cm_sp=RichRelevance-_-categorypageHorizontalTop-_-PopularProductsInCategory&cm_vc=categorypageHorizontalTop|PopularProductsInC ategory) safe, but only if electronic locks are reliable.

dls
12-31-2011, 10:45 AM
The quality Sargent and greenleaf ones are suppose to be real good, the ones the come on the Chinese safes,not so good.

Yehosha
12-31-2011, 10:48 AM
The quality Sargent and greenleaf ones are suppose to be real good, the ones the come on the Chinese safes,not so good.
You have first hand experience with this, or you're just assuming because it's Chinese it's bad?

NoHeavyHitter
12-31-2011, 10:51 AM
No electronic locks for me...

If some hostile nation ever pops an EMP blast over the U.S. (to knock out electronics) the last place I want my guns is somewhere I'll have to fight to get into.

cranemech
12-31-2011, 10:58 AM
Here are a couple items I found


http://en.allexperts.com/q/Locksmithing-3110/2011/1/cannon-safe-electronic-lock.htm

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Locksmithing-3110/2011/1/S-G-Electronic-Lock.htm

dls
12-31-2011, 10:59 AM
You have first hand experience with this, or you're just assuming because it's Chinese it's bad?

Only what I've read here and other places when I was researching my safe purchase,seems the ones with problems are not the S&G locks. maybe some Chinese safes come with higher quality S&G locks too, I don't know.

I choose to have an S&G dial lock installed on my safe,based on the sticky on this site.

"Zanotti of Zanotti Armor tells us "10% of the safes I sell have digital locks, but they represent 90% of the problems down the road. Anything electronic is prone to failure at some point."

Mike's Custom
12-31-2011, 11:14 AM
I have 2 safes with the S&G electronic locks. One lock is the older style and it failed. THe safe had to be drilled and opened by a Liberty guy. hte problem with the lock was with the lock/unlock mech. It runs on a worn drive and the little are was made of plastic. the plastic sheared off and so it would not unlock. It was all taken care of ny the factory and a new lock installed. The NEW S&G locks used on the Liberty safes have a manual unlocking ring on the outside of the lock that lifts the locker. Since it is mechanical and part of the electronics it is a much better design. The electronic key pad is the part that fails on the cheaper locks but with the S&G if you have a failure ot someone beats it with a hammer trying to get in, al you have to do is remove the face and plug in a new keypad and enter your code and it will open.

Bottom line is, I will have a electronic lock on my guns safes from now on as they are much easier and faster to get into. Once you have one you will never go back. BTW, electronic locks can be installed on most safes in place of the dial one so if you want to keep your safe and upgrade you can do it.

LBDamned
12-31-2011, 12:09 PM
generally anything electronic has the propensity to fail more than mechanical/analog.

I've read several articles regarding dial being recommended over electronic (no first hand expert experience however)...

here's one of several I have read: http://www.6mmbr.com/gunsafes.html#locks
it can be found in the stickied section of the CGN section we are in: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=135167

For quick access, I'd personally use electronic - however, I dont intend to keep firearms I need quickly in a safe... so dial is my preference (not to say I won't get an electronic lock if the price is right though).

Equis
12-31-2011, 12:14 PM
Ahhh crap, and I just got an electronic safe from Home Depot. Anyone know if sentry safes have issues, mine is the newer 60% bigger bolt version so not a lot of info on google yet.

incredablehefey
12-31-2011, 12:29 PM
I have had 2 safes with electronic pads on them, one was cheep and i could use a taser to unlock it, the other is much better quality and i prefer it to mechanical locks. My dad has 2 safes with mechanical locks and it takes him about 2 minutes to open them, due to his eye sight.

Librarian
12-31-2011, 12:48 PM
Mine has a commercial-quality electronic.

I can't see dials well enough, and I've never been able to be that accurate spinning a dial - almost always miss. For me, it's get into the safe with an electronic, or spend ten minutes at trying to get in with a mechnical/dial.

See also the sticky on basic safe info in this forum - links to evaluations of electronic/mechnical.

GMG
12-31-2011, 12:54 PM
I've had my Amsec safe with the electronic key pad for 4 years..........no issues.

Saym14
12-31-2011, 1:01 PM
Ihave had a Cannon with electronic lock for two year. open it almost daily or multiple times a day. zero problems. dials can get spun and not work also they are not without fault.

Old4eyes
12-31-2011, 1:06 PM
I had not thought about an EMP taking out the electronic lock, but I did not use that as an excuse to do a mechanical lock. I just thought the electronic locks were probably going to be cheesy.

Sturdy Safe offers the electronic locks as an option, but they recommend the mechanical. Scroll down a little on this link and you'll see their offering/opinion of electronic locks:
http://www.sturdysafe.com/model3627-6.htm

Now, if you want to make an electronic lock that's even worse to open than a mechanical S&G I give you the X09: ttp://www.kaba-mas.com/a.php?page=x-09_main
That lock is a real pain to open. I have them at work, they got out of mechanical locks for security reasons (Federal Govt mandated the change, I think kickbacks were probably the root cause).
Oh, by the way, the X09 lock costs more than some people pay for their safes.

I can get my S&G mechanical opened in about 15-20 seconds if I don't screw up.

xibunkrlilkidsx
12-31-2011, 1:10 PM
As a locksmith.

We typically use LaGard 4200 lock with either the basic or hybrid keypads. On Amsec safes we will install a ESL-10 since that is what the mfg uses. A lot of it is based on how much someone wants to pay for it.

The only problem is S&G is that you have to have a programming code, at least ont he ones ive had customers bring in typically commercial applications, in order to change the code, and if you forget that code, well your SOL on changing the combo. TO my knowledge, and this is from a rep who looked at us like we were nuts for wanting to be able to do this, there is no way to factory reset the lock once you change the programming code.

We have also used SECU RAM locks. i really like the LCD models because it amkes programming much easier for people who arent used to using the keypad for changing codes, time lock outs, etc. We did have ONE that was factory deffective where the solenoid would open with enough pressure on the bolt, i was able to wiggle the safe handle and open it. But, the factory did send us a replacement overnight.

tziggs
12-31-2011, 2:21 PM
So, how easy is it to replace a cheap electronic lock with a higher quality electronic lock?

Also, is there any possiblity of replacing an electonic mechanism with a dial (manual) lock?

NoHeavyHitter
12-31-2011, 6:54 PM
For the record, I have mechanical S&G locks on two vaults. Both locks are also keyed, so that once open via the combination - it can be opened and closed using a simple key in the lock dial. When I'm away, I unlock the key and scramble the combo.

Just say'in - mechanical locks aren't necessarily slow (all the time).

jimbos44
12-31-2011, 8:35 PM
winchester safe at TSC uses La Gard

xibunkrlilkidsx
01-01-2012, 8:58 PM
So, how easy is it to replace a cheap electronic lock with a higher quality electronic lock?

Also, is there any possiblity of replacing an electonic mechanism with a dial (manual) lock?

it all depends on the mounting spacing. Most locks will use two screws that are like 3" apart for mounting the key pad on the outside. Some companies put these locks on that do not have the same mounting pattern as what most locks we use.

You can go either mech to elec or back. it just matters on if the lock u have uses the standard screw profile as everyone else.

For the record, I have mechanical S&G locks on two vaults. Both locks are also keyed, so that once open via the combination - it can be opened and closed using a simple key in the lock dial. When I'm away, I unlock the key and scramble the combo.

Just say'in - mechanical locks aren't necessarily slow (all the time).

i do something similar with my safe if im going in and out fo the house all day ill dial in the 1st 2 numbers and leave the dial close to my last number so its just a quick flick tot he number and open.

mcisniper
01-02-2012, 7:48 AM
I friend of mine has a Cannon Time Capsule with an electronic lock. Nothing but issues with it. It is so bad he doesn't lock it or else it is months before it will open up; hence the Time Capsule. He can open reliability if he tips it over at 45 degrees and he stands on one leg while his GF stands on the other foot and slowly rocks the safe while entering the code and then it will open on every third try.... (j/k)

His issues prevented me from buying a Cannon and an electronic lock. I got a dial lock on my Ranger.

Michael

shoupdawg
01-02-2012, 8:27 AM
I have a Honeywell safe with an electronic lock. I took a pistol home defense course and during the lecture portion, the Instructor advised against a manual locking safe. He said if you ever had to open it in a hurry, with your adrenaline pumping and your fingers shaking, you would have a hard time. He suggested an electronic lock. So I have that, but it actually comes with a key that you can use to open the safe if I get EMP'ed or the batteries in the safe dies.

I also have another safe that is electronic and key combo. You have to key in a code and then use a key to open it. However, if the battery dies on that one, I'm stuck because the key will not defeat it if the code isn't keyed in first.

five.five-six
01-02-2012, 8:35 AM
I can tell you from experience, this is true. the cure is practice He said if you ever had to open it in a hurry, with your adrenaline pumping and your fingers shaking, you would have a hard time.

there is no way to practice around EMP. Besides, my "go to guns" are not necessarily kept in the safe
No electronic locks for me...

If some hostile nation ever pops an EMP blast over the U.S. (to knock out electronics) the last place I want my guns is somewhere I'll have to fight to get into.

tvfreakarms
01-02-2012, 3:42 PM
I have a mechanical dial. Ill have the first two numbers dialed. All u have to do is dial in the third number. Ot takes me less than 5 sec. Only down side if u were in a hurry to get into ur safe and if its dark well...i say keep a pistol out in case of an emergency. As long u dont have kids. Or put it some where hi up.

JaeOne3345
01-02-2012, 6:43 PM
I have a Honeywell safe with an electronic lock. I took a pistol home defense course and during the lecture portion, the Instructor advised against a manual locking safe. He said if you ever had to open it in a hurry, with your adrenaline pumping and your fingers shaking, you would have a hard time. He suggested an electronic lock. So I have that, but it actually comes with a key that you can use to open the safe if I get EMP'ed or the batteries in the safe dies.

I also have another safe that is electronic and key combo. You have to key in a code and then use a key to open it. However, if the battery dies on that one, I'm stuck because the key will not defeat it if the code isn't keyed in first.

Seems to me that you would keep at least one gun in easy reach while you are home, therefore negating the need to "quickly" get into the safe.

NoSmoke
01-02-2012, 7:42 PM
I've been a locksmith for over 30 years. In my years of experience, I trust the electronic locks, especially the LaGard Basic. This lock is a swing-bolt style and is not a motor driven lock like the S&G (Sargent & Greenleaf). Many of the S&G's e-locks fail because the motor driven drive spindle jams, preventing the lock bolt from retracting even when the correct numbers are entered. I would not have an S&G e-lock on any of my safes. The LaGard Basic has a tiny solenoid that moves a locking dog out of the way so the lock bolt can retract. I've run these for many years and have yet to see one fail. They were designed right here in the USA and built here as well for many years. Many failures with electronic locks are from owners trying to change their own combinations or just forgetting the numbers right after they complete a comb. change. Yes, I trust these e-locks over the mechanicall 3-tumbler rotary dial safe locks. There is a computerized electronic dialer that can dial open the mechanical safe locks with ease. Not so with the e-locks. Just my experiences over the years... If you need more info, PM me.

NoSmoke
01-02-2012, 7:48 PM
I have a Honeywell safe with an electronic lock. I took a pistol home defense course and during the lecture portion, the Instructor advised against a manual locking safe. He said if you ever had to open it in a hurry, with your adrenaline pumping and your fingers shaking, you would have a hard time. He suggested an electronic lock. So I have that, but it actually comes with a key that you can use to open the safe if I get EMP'ed or the batteries in the safe dies.

I also have another safe that is electronic and key combo. You have to key in a code and then use a key to open it. However, if the battery dies on that one, I'm stuck because the key will not defeat it if the code isn't keyed in first.

Quality design dictates that the batteries on electronic locks are not in the safe, but under the keypad. If the batteries die, you simply lift the keypad off, change the batteries, reinstall the keypad, then open the safe. Very simple. The lock memory should be be non-volatile meaning that it retains its combination in the event the batteries die.

NoSmoke
01-02-2012, 7:52 PM
For the record, I have mechanical S&G locks on two vaults. Both locks are also keyed, so that once open via the combination - it can be opened and closed using a simple key in the lock dial. When I'm away, I unlock the key and scramble the combo.

Just say'in - mechanical locks aren't necessarily slow (all the time).

What you are referring to is a key-locking dial, which can be defeated very easily. I would not rely on that key lock to secure my safe. The key locking dial comes from the banking industry where double custody procedures are in place, one person has the key, another has the combination.

I can press 6 digits on my electronic safe lock keypad faster than you can insert the key and turn the dial. E-locks are faster and more secure if you buy the right one.

NoSmoke
01-02-2012, 7:54 PM
generally anything electronic has the propensity to fail more than mechanical/analog.

I've read several articles regarding dial being recommended over electronic (no first hand expert experience however)...

here's one of several I have read: http://www.6mmbr.com/gunsafes.html#locks
it can be found in the stickied section of the CGN section we are in: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=135167

For quick access, I'd personally use electronic - however, I dont intend to keep firearms I need quickly in a safe... so dial is my preference (not to say I won't get an electronic lock if the price is right though).

I disagree. Some good quality electronic locks only have 1 or 2 moving parts. Most mechanical 3-tumbler locks have over 30 moving parts. And, with wear, they do fail.

NoSmoke
01-02-2012, 8:01 PM
In multiple threads I see people saying they've heard people have problems with electronic safe locks, or that they are saving money to get a safe without an electric lock. Are they really that bad? I don't want a, "I've heard they are" answer. I want someone with first hand experience to weigh in on this, or someone who has read an article or report with stats or results on the failures. No theories on why they should be avoided either.

I'm considering getting this (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?prodid=11625662&whse=BC&topnav=&cm_sp=RichRelevance-_-categorypageHorizontalTop-_-PopularProductsInCategory&cm_vc=categorypageHorizontalTop%7CPopularProductsI nCategory) safe, but only if electronic locks are reliable.

That's not a bad safe, especially for the money. Replace the e-lock that comes on it with a LaGard Basic electronic combination lock & keypad and you'll have a great setup. Super reliable too.

1nickatnite1
01-02-2012, 8:39 PM
In multiple threads I see people saying they've heard people have problems with electronic safe locks, or that they are saving money to get a safe without an electric lock. Are they really that bad? I don't want a, "I've heard they are" answer. I want someone with first hand experience to weigh in on this, or someone who has read an article or report with stats or results on the failures. No theories on why they should be avoided either.

I'm considering getting this (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?prodid=11625662&whse=BC&topnav=&cm_sp=RichRelevance-_-categorypageHorizontalTop-_-PopularProductsInCategory&cm_vc=categorypageHorizontalTop|PopularProductsInC ategory) safe, but only if electronic locks are reliable.

I bought the same safe a couple of months ago. I have the electronic lock and when i type in my code, i need to turn the handle in the opposite direction first before opening it or else it doesn't open. Not sure if its suppose to be like that or not but its more of an annoyance than anything else. If i were to do it again, i would still get the electronic lock just because its so much more convenient.

FYI - Bighorn will swap out the electronic lock for a combo one for free, just let them know when you order.

xibunkrlilkidsx
01-08-2012, 9:05 PM
I bought the same safe a couple of months ago. I have the electronic lock and when i type in my code, i need to turn the handle in the opposite direction first before opening it or else it doesn't open. Not sure if its suppose to be like that or not but its more of an annoyance than anything else. If i were to do it again, i would still get the electronic lock just because its so much more convenient.

FYI - Bighorn will swap out the electronic lock for a combo one for free, just let them know when you order.

what is probably happening is that there is little clearence between the bolt on the lock and the bolt work. so what is happening is that the bolt work is putting pressure on the bolt in the lock and not letting the lock retract the solenoid.

xibunkrlilkidsx
01-08-2012, 9:06 PM
I've been a locksmith for over 30 years. In my years of experience, I trust the electronic locks, especially the LaGard Basic. This lock is a swing-bolt style and is not a motor driven lock like the S&G (Sargent & Greenleaf). Many of the S&G's e-locks fail because the motor driven drive spindle jams, preventing the lock bolt from retracting even when the correct numbers are entered. I would not have an S&G e-lock on any of my safes. The LaGard Basic has a tiny solenoid that moves a locking dog out of the way so the lock bolt can retract. I've run these for many years and have yet to see one fail. They were designed right here in the USA and built here as well for many years. Many failures with electronic locks are from owners trying to change their own combinations or just forgetting the numbers right after they complete a comb. change. Yes, I trust these e-locks over the mechanicall 3-tumbler rotary dial safe locks. There is a computerized electronic dialer that can dial open the mechanical safe locks with ease. Not so with the e-locks. Just my experiences over the years... If you need more info, PM me.

the only failures we have had with the La Gard is typically caused by user pushing to hard on the buttons and ruining the touch membrane, but to be fair this happens from time to time with all locks.

Santa Cruz Armory
01-08-2012, 10:21 PM
Is it easy to convert a dial to a LaGard basic? Where do you find the electronic locks and what is the price range?

I have a dial I'd like to swap out for a reliable elec.

NoSmoke
01-09-2012, 7:01 AM
Is it easy to convert a dial to a LaGard basic? Where do you find the electronic locks and what is the price range?

I have a dial I'd like to swap out for a reliable elec.

You'll have to remove the mechanical lock and dial assy. The important thing is to hold back the re-lock device while doing so and then put it back into position once you've installed the electronic lock. If you're not comfortable doing so, you might want to hire a locksmith or safe technician to do the swap for you. You can call around to various lock shops and tell them what you want done and ask them for their best price. Its a fairly easy job so they should give you a fair price. Here in Orange County, I would do it for $50 or so. But I'm retired and no longer have any overhead.

If you're somewhat mechanically inclined, its fairly easy. Here's a great deal on the LaGard Basic II 4200 electronic lock and the 3715 keypad.

http://www.amazon.com/LaGard-Basic-Electronic-Safe-Lock/dp/B001Q8OCD6

Here's a set of installation instructions:

http://www.kaba-mas.com/LG_install_operations/717.088RevD_web.pdf

You probably won't find a better price anywhere on the electronic lock.
You can search using "LaGard Basic".

Dave

NoSmoke
01-09-2012, 7:20 AM
Here's a little larger gun safe at a good price for those of you that are looking....

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11642193&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&eCat=BC|114|3373&N=4042061&Mo=26&No=6&ViewAll=998&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=3373&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-US&Sp=C&topnav= (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11642193&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&eCat=BC%7C114%7C3373&N=4042061&Mo=26&No=6&ViewAll=998&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=3373&Ns=P_Price%7C1%7C%7CP_SignDesc1&lang=en-US&Sp=C&topnav=)

rsilvers
09-10-2014, 6:04 PM
I would only use electronic on something where you store home defense guns, but a dial is fun if you are not in a hurry, want a lower price, and want more reliability.

Sturdy will make a door with both locks on it as a $340 option. Then you can use the dial as a backup if the electronic fails.

Smith makes a 5 inch long mechanical key as a $175 option in case the main lock fails.

sk8804
09-10-2014, 7:28 PM
I open safes for a living. And the only e lock I would put on my own safe would be amsec ESL 10s and or 20s. S&g e locks have a rapid failure rate. Lagards are decent I'd rather use that than an s&g electronic. Knock offs are junk. Securam included. The ESL locks I have used are great. The most I have had to do is replace a keypad on commercial applications after a few years since the numbers wear off. Never drilled one yet. They just keep going. I am a huge fan of s&g group 2 dials though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

dls
09-10-2014, 8:01 PM
Some of the better manual dial locks also have a "day use key" . First Dial in your combo then insert the key,turn the lock about 15 deg,lock the dial with your key. Now you have quick key access.

Although I think your HD guns shouldn't be in your main storage safe anyway.

Breadfan
09-10-2014, 8:12 PM
tag

sonofeugene
09-10-2014, 8:14 PM
I would never get a safe that's electronic only. I'd always want an alternate and reliable backup method of opening the safe.

Zartan
09-12-2014, 5:44 PM
My Sturdy has a LAgard/Kaba Mas redundant Electronic/Dial and I love it.

ElDub1950
09-12-2014, 5:47 PM
No electronic locks for me...

If some hostile nation ever pops an EMP blast over the U.S. (to knock out electronics) the last place I want my guns is somewhere I'll have to fight to get into.

Or the X Class solar flare due to hit us tomorrow, is big enough to fry the lock .. the keypad is on the outside.

Meety Peety
09-12-2014, 9:18 PM
My Champion safe has a LaGard lock, AmSec safe has a ESL lock. Both are decent electronic locks and I have not had any failure. That being said, they both feel cheap and cheesy compared to the S&G locks that I've fondled. In fact, I fully plan on ordering an S&G lock from West Coast when my AmSec lock's warranty falls off, if not sooner.

Ultimately, anything can fail and if you spend the time to really research it, you will find horror stories about every lock system. At the end of the day, you just need to determine what it is that YOU want. I chose convenience, and I personally do not believe that my extremely low odds of having a lock fail are worth the hassle of using a mechanical. If my locks do eventually fail, I guess I'll take an "I told ya so" and a lock smith bill. I am not worried about an EMP because realistically, no one gets that high of a kill streak these days anyway.

If you like nice things, I think you'd be better off with the S&G. You can honestly feel a difference in quality when using it.

teg33
09-12-2014, 9:20 PM
Any electronic device are subject to Murphy law

Meety Peety
09-12-2014, 9:23 PM
Wait a minute why was this thread necro'd? I'm sure OP has long since picked a safe/lock combo by now..

hermosabeach
09-12-2014, 9:25 PM
They are reliable, just not as reliable as a mechanical lock.

I just had a schlage electric lock fail today.
Without the bypass key, I would not have gotten in...




Convient - yes

Easier to hack- yes

More prone to issues than mechanical locks - yes

bsg
09-12-2014, 9:56 PM
mechanical/manual combination lock for me; personal preference.

LBDamned
09-13-2014, 12:05 AM
Wait a minute why was this thread necro'd? I'm sure OP has long since picked a safe/lock combo by now..
to change his mind...

don't ask which one he decided on... the reason is the same ;)

:D

Safeguy805
12-17-2014, 3:42 PM
I open safes for a living. And the only e lock I would put on my own safe would be amsec ESL 10s and or 20s. S&g e locks have a rapid failure rate. Lagards are decent I'd rather use that than an s&g electronic. Knock offs are junk. Securam included. The ESL locks I have used are great. The most I have had to do is replace a keypad on commercial applications after a few years since the numbers wear off. Never drilled one yet. They just keep going. I am a huge fan of s&g group 2 dials though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My name is Jeremy Brookes. I am Director of Sales & Marketing at SecuRam Systems Inc. since 2012. Prior to this position I was Vice President of S&G (Sargent & Greenleaf) for 10 years.

I would be happy to answer any questions about our products, if anyone is having concerns about our locks or electronic locks in general.

Our product performance rating is the best in the industry at an unbelievable 99.7%. This value is considerably better than reports of other safe lock manufacturers - in some cases many multiples better.

sk8804 is obviously not a supporter of SecuRam safe locks as he seems to wear out his drill rig on our products. Perhaps before he drills another, he could try to simply replace the entrypad and enter the existing code - this fixes 99% of issues with a damaged SecuRam lock. No need to put a hole in another safe or safe lock. Or better yet SK8804 call me, I would be happy to help you. My phone number is 805-988-8088.

Victor Cachat
12-17-2014, 4:31 PM
The locks used in the HF small safes have a key lock under a piece of plastic for a back up.

One of my relatives found out the hard way that the circuit board can fail.
That's why they use the keys.

I changed my mechanical lock because my eyes don't need to see a keypad to use it.

I just wish you could turn the effing beep off.
It tells an intruder you are awake and getting your gun.

jdben92883
12-17-2014, 6:51 PM
My brother in law's $500 Costco safe's electronic lock failed. Manufacture (forgot which one) said he was out-of-luck and would need a locksmith to break into it. He didn't want to screw with it and just pried it open and threw it away.

In multiple threads I see people saying they've heard people have problems with electronic safe locks, or that they are saving money to get a safe without an electric lock. Are they really that bad? I don't want a, "I've heard they are" answer. I want someone with first hand experience to weigh in on this, or someone who has read an article or report with stats or results on the failures. No theories on why they should be avoided either.

I'm considering getting this (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?prodid=11625662&whse=BC&topnav=&cm_sp=RichRelevance-_-categorypageHorizontalTop-_-PopularProductsInCategory&cm_vc=categorypageHorizontalTop|PopularProductsInC ategory) safe, but only if electronic locks are reliable.