PDA

View Full Version : Buying a 1911 .45 ACP this week. Opinions please!


Andrew LB
03-11-2007, 10:24 PM
Ok fellas. I'm going to be buying a .45 this week. I'm a regular shooter who doesn't compete but wants a .45 that i can shoot often at the range that will give me good reliability, features, ergonomics, etc.

I fell in love with the Springfield .45 TRP the other day at my local range. The pistol seems just perfect for what I want. It's just priced a little high for my wallet right now. They had it for sale for $1450. I loved the checkered metal grips front and rear as well as pretty much every feature on the gun except the trigger pull.

I'm also looking into the PX9116LP Lightweight Operator .45 . I cannot find a relative price for it since my shop would have to order one from Springfield but since Gallery of Guns has thr TRP for $1750 and i can get it for $1450.... can someone give me an estimate of what the Lightweight operator would/should cost me?


I plan on doing some custom work to whichever gun I purchase. Trigger job is a must. So is probably a 1 piece guide rod with a different spring. I'll also probably look into perhaps a finish like the matte Black T finish or something similar. I don't like shiny pistols.

I'm leaning towards the Operator because It's much more affordable and has a lot of excellent features compared to the lesser Mil-Spec or GI.


Do any of you guys have experience with either or both of these pistols? What are your opinions of them and the pro's and con's.

Thanks!

So here are the two options.

TRP:

http://www.kalionzes.com/firearms/trp.jpg

Operator:

http://www.kalionzes.com/firearms/Operator.jpg

FatKatMatt
03-11-2007, 10:36 PM
I looked for a price online for the Springfield Lightweight Operator, got an MSRP of $1250 give or take. Savings of $200 versus the TRP. The only thing that differs between them is that the Operator doesn't have "TRP" stamped on the slide and it has a rail; unless there's some really good internals in the TRP or some nifty little gadget I would go with the cheaper gun.

I bet you're having a hard time with this, there are so many 1911 choices out there it's mind numbing. Kimber alone has 56 different variations.

I say go with one of the cheaper Springfields, pimp it out to your every desire, and you'll probably end up saving money in the end. I've handled a G.I., and while it felt solid the sights were crap and I will concur that you shouldn't get one of those.

Unless you want an out of the box custom gun, I must say you should buy a lower end 1911 and customize that. Or get a Kimber, like what I'm doing. I find that the Eclipse model has everything I want and more in a 1911, may be different for you.

slick_711
03-11-2007, 10:46 PM
Hmmm. Well, I'll offer up my opinion. Having shot both (the TRP quite a bit, the Lightweight OP just once); I prefer the TRP. They really are not all that dissimilar. The latter is of course a bit lighter, about 8oz. Doesn't sound like much, and for range use it isn't, but if you ever intended to carry this it is worth considering. It also has the integral rail, which although it gives you some versatility, many hardcore '1911 guys' may frown upon and more importantly it limits your holster options.

The action/trigger/fitting on the two is exceptional with both, I've rather enjoyed shooting the TRP and didn't notice any differences with the other. I really wouldn't think either would need a trigger job, but that's your call when you make your decision.

The major differences to consider are going to be the rail, frontstrap checkering, and maybe the extended magwell. The grips are a minor difference, easily changed out. You seem to have handled one or both, make sure you're comfortable with the checkering and evaluate whether or not you need the rail. Those would be the only two things you'd need to consider in my opinion. Either way you've picked an excellent pistol. I'm nothing but pleased with my SA and have a few other SA 1911 purchases planned out when funds permit lol. :D

slick_711
03-11-2007, 11:07 PM
Hmm. Shop around, those prices are high. I've seen (and sold) railed TRPs for under $1300. Last I checked Kimber Eclipses were ~$110 less. You'd also be hard-pressed to build a custom 1911 and save money over buying a SA or Kimber. You may very well be more happy with it in the long run, but it would hardly be cheaper.

Using myself as an example, I paid $440 for my SA Mil-spec SS. $500 out the door. That was their employee deal pricing, which is under dealer pricing, so if you can find one for that buy it, but it's unlikely. C & S trigger parts +$130. Ed Brown custom Thumb safety +$30. New grips $55. Checkered mainspring housing and pin kit $50. That's where I'm at so far, $765.

However, I'm still looking to change out the sights, ironically enough, to Novak or Bomar low-pro night sights just like the ones on the TRP. That'd be another ~$125 for the sights and at least $100 if not more to have the slide properly cut. Frontstrap checkering? Maybe you don't want it, but it'd cost you minimum $90 an inch to have it done if you do. Shipping charges to and from the smiths that did that work for you?

All that and you still have a pistol that isn't as tightly fit and doesn't have the fitter match barrel and fitted bushing. At the price of the TRP or Lightweight Operator or Kimber <name here>.

Don't get me wrong, a completely custom gun with the parts you want may be worth the money, I'm stoked on mine, and look forward to continuing to customize it. But it's an expensive process, and a slow one if you take time picking your parts and paying for them.

Think about what you want out of the gun, what you want to do with it, and then pick the one that would be best for you. Ultimately it doesn't freakin' matter, you'll buy more than one in the end.

Jeffrock
03-11-2007, 11:07 PM
If you are going to be getting a trigger job done and refinishing you might want to consider just saving up a couple extra bucks and getting a Les Baer or Ed Brown. You know the saying about quality and crying once...

PLINK
03-11-2007, 11:28 PM
I am/ was a big SA fan (3 1911's, 1 XD). After my last purchase I am not so sure anymore for 1911's. I recently purchase a Parked Loaded model with factory night sights. This gun is no where near the quality of my Mil-Spec I bought 3 years ago. What I don't like about my newest addition is there is 1) ejection port side ambi safty rubing on frame which is marking up the finish, 2) extractor is loose in the slide (front, back, side to side), 3) barrel bushing fit to the slide is loose (I did notice this prior to purchase), 4)they did a crappy job on the magwell bevel 5) the Novak sights look like copies (they work though), and 6) the biggest let down is the back strap of the frame was not cut straight and there is a chip of metal missing in the cut line (this pisses me off the most). The good is the trigger is about 4.5 pounds which is crisp with no creep, the barrel to slide fit had no movement in lock up and the gun has 150 trouble free rounds through it with my own loads. Now every thing is fixable except the back strap cut which is cosmetic but I do not feel the quality is that great with SA right now compared to the past. I have looked at others since then and had seen a few other built the same way.

Words of advice: Fully check out the SA pistol you plan on purchasing.

Check:

1)Barrel to slide fit
2)Slide to frame fit
3)Barrel to bushing fit
4)Bushing to slide fit
5)trigger pull
6)over all finish and frame/ slide milling

After this last buy I would never buy a SA online and would do a full inspection in person.

After all that said, I like the TRP model but the 20 lpi front strap checkering is very agressive. I prefer the feel of 30 lpi myself. The magwell is a two piece set up which you could add to almost any 1911 without much trouble (similar to Ed Brown). I like the S&A 1 piece magwell more (cleaner looking). The trigger pull on these are crisp and light. The overall gun is probably better than most Loaded's they sell and it better be for $500 more.

The operator I believe is a Loaded model with a rail. (See my recent Loaded experiance above).

I would look at other brands as well. I passed on a Kimber TLE ($850) for my Loaded and in hind sight I should have got the TLE (internal extractor). The Parked Loaded was $135 less.

Anyway, take this for what is is worth. SA has a great warrenty. But when I buy a new gun I should not have to send it back for sloppy worksmanship after I already waited 10 days to get it. Some will say, "what do you expect for a $715 1911". Well, I expect the same quality if not better than my Mil-Spec, which clearly my current Loaded model is not up to. I did email SA and this is the response I got 1 buisness day later (that's a good response time).

Hi PLINK,

We apologize if the Springfield Armory 1911-A1 isn’t to the quality you expected. You have a lifetime warranty on the firearm though so if there are any warranty related issues with the pistol, we will make sure they are taken care of. Call us at 800-680-6866 to get an RMA number and shipping instructions from a customer service representative. Be sure to ask about shipping reimbursement as well. Springfield Armory is going to make sure you are taken care of. Let me know if you have any additional questions or concerns before you call.

Thank you,

From the guy who has to listen to your crap.


I will put another 500 rounds though it before it goes back to make sure nothing else turns up.

montan
03-11-2007, 11:39 PM
You are on the right track. TRP is the way to go for 1911s. So Cal Sharpshooter has one for $1350. I saw it last week. I know it won't last long before somebody takes it. Kimber is ok, but not quite a Spingfield.

Another option is the TRP, light rail armory kote, everything you want for in a reliable 1911. The armory kote is perfect for you because it is not shinny. Frankly speaking, you don't need to do any trigger job on either one of your options. Good luck.

mike452
03-11-2007, 11:45 PM
I have a TRP Operator w/ full rail. The front grip checkering is a bit too rough. Other than that, it is great!

I just helped my friend get a new SS TRP on gunbrokers for under $1300 shipped. The other model you want might not be CA approved.

ft4olsc
03-11-2007, 11:46 PM
After looking around a lot, I chose the TRP. Shopped around a lot as well and found it --and bought it-- at Martin B. Retting in Culver City for $1139. That was a month ago. At that time I think they had a few more at that price. By the way, I LOVE THIS GUN!

slick_711
03-11-2007, 11:48 PM
Another option is the TRP, light rail armory kote.

A good option indeed, but keep in mind the TRP w/rail has a bull barrel, which is not allowed in IDPA. The standard TRP does not. However, you said it wasn't for competition so I guess it doesn't matter.

Franksremote
03-12-2007, 12:16 AM
Your fellow Calgunner might be able to help out:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=50759

Andrew LB
03-12-2007, 12:42 AM
I have a TRP Operator w/ full rail. The front grip checkering is a bit too rough. Other than that, it is great!

I just helped my friend get a new SS TRP on gunbrokers for under $1300 shipped. The other model you want might not be CA approved.

They stopped shipping the TRP with the rails to California now that they widened the accessory rail. Springfield told the peoples republic of Kalifornia to screw off since they wanted more money and guns to keep/destroy after they test what hasn't really changed a bit.

mike452
03-12-2007, 1:15 AM
They stopped shipping the TRP with the rails to California now that they widened the accessory rail. Springfield told the peoples republic of Kalifornia to screw off since they wanted more money and guns to keep/destroy after they test what hasn't really changed a bit.

I purchased a new TRP Operator with the short rail in January for a friend.
I noticed Springfield changed the model number to PC9105LP.
You can still get new PC9105L from gunbroker.com

The short rail width was the same as my full rail. I'm not sure why they would widen it making all accessories useless.

ghideon
03-12-2007, 5:49 AM
I'd say go with the railed TRP Operator (PC9105L). I picked one up in Feb, could not be happier with my purchase.

1911su16b870
03-12-2007, 7:24 AM
IMO it all comes down to how you are going to use the 1911. If its a range gun and would be used for competition go w/o the rail. If its a daily wearer, go with the lighter one (w/o rail), but carry a small surefire in your support side pocket. If its a home go to gun, get the rail and a M3 or M6. Regardless, you'll need to break it in for the req.d number of rounds which is really fun for you.

JGarrison
03-12-2007, 8:16 AM
http://www.springfield-armory.com/custom.php

Click on the 1911-A1 custom work sheet for a breakdown of all work they do, plus prices.

slick_711
03-12-2007, 8:55 AM
IMO it all comes down to how you are going to use the 1911. If its a range gun and would be used for competition go w/o the rail. If its a daily wearer, go with the lighter one (w/o rail), but carry a small surefire in your support side pocket. If its a home go to gun, get the rail and a M3 or M6.

Why would you carry a flashlight & gun out of the house but then put a flashlight on your gun at home? If you go to your gun in public you had better be damn sure you're going to need it or you could use your CCW. In a situation like that you may as well have a hand possibly available for other tasks.

At home, when you can more easily and more often go to your gun if you 'hear a bump in the night' why wouldn't you use separate tools? What if that bump is your wife/husband/father/son/roommate? Now you've got to point your gun at them in order to determine their identity. If I was your roommate and you pointed a loaded weapon at me you can be sure I'd smack you. Get a flashlight and learn to shoot Harris, or FBI, or the Surefire supported method. More versatility, and arguably safer. Not saying not to feel free to go to your gun at home if something happens, but why not keep it at the low ready while investigating.

1911su16b870
03-12-2007, 11:04 AM
...Now you've got to point your gun at them in order to determine their identity...

Point noted...covering any family member/room-mate is bad. :) This point will have to revert back to the user's individual situation and training. FWIW it is possible to use a rail mounted light to illuminate/identify the threat from low ready and not covering the target. This is especially true with a long gun mounted light. IMO both support side light and firearms mounted light should be practiced in low light conditions.

Super_tactical
03-12-2007, 11:26 AM
If you're thinking of spending $1400...

buy a LES BAER or WILSON!!!

You can find NIB LB TRS for $1600 ... MUCH better example of the 1911 IMO.

www.1911forum.com

JGarrison
03-12-2007, 8:05 PM
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=88&t=421342

$1065 TRP

NwG
03-12-2007, 10:14 PM
If you're thinking of spending $1400...

buy a LES BAER or WILSON!!!

You can find NIB LB TRS for $1600 ... MUCH better example of the 1911 IMO.

www.1911forum.com

+100

I picked up a Les Bear TRS not too long ago and have to say it is in a class above all other 1911's I own or have shot.. I own a Kimber Eclipse Target II (now sporting fixed sights) and have shot many hundreads of rounds through the TRP and other Springfields.. The Bear is far and above better than both the Kimber and the Springfield.. Don't get me wrong, I am still a die-hard Kimber and Springfield fan. Springfields warrenty is hard to beat... But Les Bear's is even better! For not all that much more money IMO you get a much better, hand fitted and built 1911.. Really no need for any mods.. Though refinishing the pretty polished blue is not a bad idea.. It tends to rust and is a little shiny...

If your heart is set on the TRP, there is NOTHING wrong with it at all! Just think you should take a look at what you can get for not all that much more $$$

Kruzr
03-12-2007, 10:18 PM
Springfields warrenty is hard to beat... But Les Bear's is even better!
It's BAER not Bear and a Baer has no warranty at all. Any warranty work is done at Les's discretion. You pay shipping and they aren't particularly fast. The offset is the guns are worth it.

Baers are in a class above production guns.

NwG
03-12-2007, 11:11 PM
Woops! My bad on the spelling!!

True Les has made a point of NOT giveing any written warranty. While this may seem odd there are a few good reasons for it.. I have never read of him not fixing one of his gun other than because of abuse. I had a question about refinishing my TRS and ended up on the phone with Les himself! Kind of odd.. I called and said I had a question about refinishing my TRS.. "Please hold"

"Hello, this is Les. What can I do for you?"

I found that to be pretty cool.. Nice guy he is!

Aluisious
03-12-2007, 11:19 PM
My 2 cents on tactical lights:

Great if you're clearing houses in Fallujah. Point down corridors and corners, see there's a bad guy, dispatch the bad guy.

In my own house, I can see well in the dark and know where I'm going, and know where light switches are.

I really don't feel the need to bolt stuff onto a pistol in order to flash around a little bit of light, especially when I could be pointing it at a room mate or girlfriend or something.

Seems like lights are for clearing unfamiliar structures or for looking tacticool. Besides, I just hate the idea my gun might run out of batteries.

Andrew LB
03-12-2007, 11:39 PM
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=88&t=421342

$1065 TRP


I would prefer new in box for this purchase. Almost all the firearms I own were ones passed down through my family or acquired through family friends of my father and grandfather. My XD is my only "new" firearm. Other than that the most recently made is my S&W Model 66-2 .357 magnum 6" stainless. It was bought new in 1972 by my father when he'd carry it on rare occasion in his briefcase when transporting very valuable merchandise for photo shoots in Los Angeles for companies like Mastercard, and the company that made the blank credit cards. He was definitely packing when i was a kid when he had at our house overnight $500,000 worth of gold South African Cougarands (spelling?). The pistol is now mine and every other firearm I own is pre '72. Many dating back to the turn of the century.


As for that TRP for $1065, i'd rather spend $200 more for a brand new one i have my eyes on right now. :) Thanks though.

My 2 cents on tactical lights:

Great if you're clearing houses in Fallujah. Point down corridors and corners, see there's a badguy, dispatch the bad guy.

In my own house, I can see well in the dark and know where I'm going, and know where light switches are.

I really don't feel the need to bolt stuff onto a pistol in order to flash around a little bit of light, especially when I could be pointing it at a room mate or girlfriend or something.

Seems like lights are for clearing unfamiliar structures or for looking tacticool. Besides, I just hate the idea my gun might run out of batteries.


Yeah.... i've been thinking about that the past few days. I think i'd get the jump on someone far easier in my own home in the pitch dark since i know every inch of the place. A light would be an instant "hey.... i'm right here!!". Plus if i wake up in the middle of the night, i've got great night vision, and can probably see much better than someone who was just outside where we have street lights.

... something to consider further.

NwG
03-13-2007, 12:00 AM
Yeah.... i've been thinking about that the past few days. I think i'd get the jump on someone far easier in my own home in the pitch dark since i know every inch of the place. A light would be an instant "hey.... i'm right here!!". Plus if i wake up in the middle of the night, i've got great night vision, and can probably see much better than someone who was just outside where we have street lights.

... something to consider further.

Unless the person is pokeing at you with a sword or someting it is ALWAYS necessary to ID your target no matter what.. Be it a weapon mounted light (IMO no the best choice IMO), hand held, or your desk lamp.. You never know.. The kooky 98 year old lady nextdoor could be off her meds and have wandered into the wrong house.. While it may not be the most tacticaly sound method to light up a room, it is a part of life.. Really something everyone had to think about!

I would agree with you on the NIB pistol.. It just feels that much better to have something all new and unmolested!! Better yet, try to find one that has not be put out on display for everyone to finger-bang and dry fire for weeks on end!!

Andrew LB
03-13-2007, 2:15 AM
I'd most likely sneak up on whoever is in my house and flick a light switch that will not only illuminate the entire room, but the surprise he'd endure would be enough as soon as he noticed he was looking down the barrel of either my 12ga or my XD w/hydra-shoks.

DrjonesUSA
03-13-2007, 10:10 PM
I now own Four TRPs, and here are my thoughts:


1) Shop around, especially on the "For Sale" forums of various gun boards. I got my Stainless TRP for a little over $1000.00, 100% NIB and unfired. Stainless guns are always more expensive than regular guns, so $1450 for the A-Kote TRP (assuming it's the regular TRP and not the Operator) is ridiculously overpriced.

$1450 sounds close to MSRP, which no one should pay.


2) I don't know what you are used to on a 1911 trigger, but all of my TRPs have had very nice triggers. I wouldn't say they are excellent, except for my two Operators, but they are definitely good enough that I can't justify spending the money on a trigger job.

3) You don't need to replace the recoil spring if you change guide rods.

4) Again, as the owner of three Armory Koted TRPs, I can tell you that it is NOT a shiny finish. It isn't flat black, but it sure as heck doesn't shine. If you really have your heart set on Black-T, I sure won't try to talk you out of it, though. I've never seen a Black-T pistol in person, but it should be darned SWEET! :)

5) Regarding the rail vs. non-rail, I personally think that anything less than a full-length rail looks ugly. If you are going to get a railed gun, get a railed gun and get the Operator with the full-length rail. The extra weight really helps soak up recoil and it just looks sooooooo much cooler.

6) In closing, the TRPs are superb pistols at their price point, which is why I have four of them, and you'll be very happy with it if you decide to get one.

DrjonesUSA
03-13-2007, 10:53 PM
They stopped shipping the TRP with the rails to California now that they widened the accessory rail. Springfield told the peoples republic of Kalifornia to screw off since they wanted more money and guns to keep/destroy after they test what hasn't really changed a bit.


Can you please back up your assertion with fact? Because I think you are totally wrong.

Thanks

DrjonesUSA
03-13-2007, 10:54 PM
I have a TRP Operator w/ full rail. The front grip checkering is a bit too rough.


After a short while you get used to it & wish all of your guns had it.

ghideon
03-14-2007, 3:46 AM
After a short while you get used to it & wish all of your guns had it.

QFT. I thought I'd have a problem with my TRP Operator rubbing my hands raw, but it turned out to be a non-issue. Even after I put the Simonich Gunner Grips on I still didn't have a problem. I need more testing, cause my longest range session with it has only been 100rnds.

DrjonesUSA
03-14-2007, 7:02 AM
QFT. I thought I'd have a problem with my TRP Operator rubbing my hands raw, but it turned out to be a non-issue. Even after I put the Simonich Gunner Grips on I still didn't have a problem. I need more testing, cause my longest range session with it has only been 100rnds.


What does "QFT" mean?

slick_711
03-14-2007, 9:07 AM
What does "QFT" mean?

quoted for truth. similar to saying +1, or in modern spoken english, "I agree." The phrase "I agree" has too many keystrokes to be willingly used on the internet though. :rolleyes:

DrjonesUSA
03-14-2007, 9:21 AM
quoted for truth. similar to saying +1, or in modern spoken english, "I agree." The phrase "I agree" has too many keystrokes to be willingly used on the internet though. :rolleyes:



Ah. I thought it meant "Quit F-ing Talking" which didn't make sense to me because you were agreeing with me.

:D

DrjonesUSA
03-14-2007, 9:23 AM
QFT. I thought I'd have a problem with my TRP Operator rubbing my hands raw, but it turned out to be a non-issue. Even after I put the Simonich Gunner Grips on I still didn't have a problem. I need more testing, cause my longest range session with it has only been 100rnds.


So by the way, how do you like those Gunner grips? I'm considering them for the Operator I just got.

It's currently wearing the Mil-Tac/Davidson grips I took off of my SS TRP, but I think I may like to try the Gunner Grips.

Could you post any pics?

Thanks!

Andrew LB
03-14-2007, 12:03 PM
Unless the person is pokeing at you with a sword or someting it is ALWAYS necessary to ID your target no matter what.. Be it a weapon mounted light (IMO no the best choice IMO), hand held, or your desk lamp.. You never know.. The kooky 98 year old lady nextdoor could be off her meds and have wandered into the wrong house.. While it may not be the most tacticaly sound method to light up a room, it is a part of life.. Really something everyone had to think about!


Considering I live in Kalifornia, I keep doors and windows in my house locked at night. Positive ID of your life being in danger PLUS being able to prove you made every attempt possible to avoid a shooting is from what I hear necessary by many of our 'progressive' judges.

I'm already turning away from getting a pistol that has rails on it. I also just found out the two TRP's i found available locally do not have rails and no new ones will be coming to Kalifornia since they changed their width.



I have a feeling I'm just going to save the cash and buy a "Loaded" .45 from Springfield and have some custom work done to it.

I can still put a Tac-light on my Springfield XD-9mm if needs be.


Btw..... there is another firearm i'm planning to get by summer. I consider it the ULTIMATE in home protection! Click here to see :) (http://www.benelliusa.com/firearms/large/m4PGSynthetic12Ga.jpg)


Can you please back up your assertion with fact? Because I think you are totally wrong.

Thanks


My mistake. They didn't widen the rails. They lengthened them. It's why they changed the model from PC9105L to PC9105LP. And when a manufacturer makes ANY variation to a handgun, they have to re-submit it for approval, pay massive fees, etc. Kalifornia is a lovely state. These fees and requirement to submit guns which are not returned for approval are the reason why we only get 3 models of Ed Browns here out of their current catalog.

mike452
03-14-2007, 12:54 PM
I'm already turning away from getting a pistol that has rails on it. I also just found out the two TRP's i found available locally do not have rails and no new ones will be coming to Kalifornia since they changed their width.

My mistake. They didn't widen the rails. They lengthened them. It's why they changed the model from PC9105L to PC9105LP.


Andrew! You are not getting this. The rail has been shortened. The full rail TRP Operator was PC9105L.
Springfield first released the shortened rail TRP Operator using the same model PC9105L.
Now they changed to PC9105LP.

You can still find the PC9105L Short Rail or Full Rail on the web and they are both legal for CA.

Tell this guy to get you a picture of the box label.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=67538842

Andrew LB
03-14-2007, 1:26 PM
Mike,
Here is what I read on this very site which led me to believe there will no longer be any TRP's coming to Kalifornia. I apologize if I was misinformed. I've only purchased 1 'new' firearm in my life. All the rest have dates ranging from 1973 (my model 66-2 S&W .357mag) all the way back even prior to my US NAVY .45 ACP to a Model 1884 Springfield trapdoor rifle which served in the mexican/American war.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=530753&postcount=5

Good luck on that, from what I understand there will be no more new TRP's coming to California. They changed the light rail from 3/4" to 1" and the gun has to be recertified for sale in the state and they won't do it (can't do it) as it would now need a magazine disconnect. According to one dealer I talked with, SA cancelled all back ordered TRP's even those for LEO's that are exempt from having to buy off of the "Approved list". This was a large number of guns. We will not be seeing any new 1911's being approved for sale in this state because of the silly magazine disconnect requirement on all new semi-autos.

Is it one that is sitting in stock? If so I may go jump in the car and check it out

Springers are becoming harder and harder to find, I just happend to trip over my Ultra Compact at the local turners, turned out that it was technically used as it was owned by the area rep, but the thing was in NIB condition.

So many sweet guns, so little money!

mike452
03-14-2007, 2:50 PM
I wouldn't be so excited if I hadn't purchased one in Jan. There's misinformation everywhere on the net.
Dealers BS people all the time. I stopped going to the Redondo Beach Turners because of it. I didn't know cops carried 1911s.

I don't know why Springfield uses their model numbers on the list. The smart thing to do would be to make it generic as possible. Just like patents.

TRP Operator / light rail / Carbon Steel

Knauga
03-14-2007, 3:54 PM
The issue was with the new TRP light rail. SA isn't making the old style light rail any more with that model number. They told a dealer who has MANY on back order with them (mostly for LEO's) that there will be no future TRPs coming to California and that they were cancelling the back ordered TRP's.

This was the SA rep at the SHOT show explaining this to a dealer who sells primarily to law enforcement agencies. So coming from me this is second hand information that was given to me by the person who received it first hand. Take it for what it is worth.

They use specific model numbers because any changes to the firearm mean that they must recertify that firearm. If they make changes to pistol model A they can change it to A1 and not certify it for sale in California, but still be able to sell version A. It is an incredibly stupid way for California to do this from a gun owner, manufacturer point of view, it is incredibly smart from a gun grabber point of view.

ghideon
03-14-2007, 7:29 PM
So by the way, how do you like those Gunner grips? I'm considering them for the Operator I just got.

It's currently wearing the Mil-Tac/Davidson grips I took off of my SS TRP, but I think I may like to try the Gunner Grips.

Could you post any pics?

Thanks!

I'm at work right now (work nights), but when I get home I'll get you some pics. I have them in green, and I think they look pretty nice. The coyote brown ones look pretty good as well. Someone described them feeling like 'stone,' and that's pretty accurate to me. I don't think they are too rough, but they did include a bit of sand paper if you wanted to smooth them out. I haven't.

ghideon
03-16-2007, 2:25 AM
Here are some pics (at least the few that turned out half-decent). These are "Ranger Green" Gunners grips. The "Coyote Brown" ones are very nice lookin as well.

http://mail.ghideon.com/img/img_2173.jpg
http://mail.ghideon.com/img/img_2160.jpg
http://mail.ghideon.com/img/img_2161.jpg

ghideon
03-16-2007, 2:31 AM
FY - You can have a look at the Coyote Brown grips at:
http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=3729&highlight=coyote+brown

The pistol is a Kimber finished in Nickel-T IIRC, but it'll give you an idea of how the colors fit together (pretty hot in my opinion).

DrjonesUSA
03-16-2007, 7:14 AM
I'm at work right now (work nights), but when I get home I'll get you some pics. I have them in green, and I think they look pretty nice. The coyote brown ones look pretty good as well. Someone described them feeling like 'stone,' and that's pretty accurate to me. I don't think they are too rough, but they did include a bit of sand paper if you wanted to smooth them out. I haven't.

Interesting. Thanks a lot for posting the pics!

Over on 1911forum, most guys seem to say they are some of the roughest & "grippiest" grips around.

Would you agree with that?

I love the 20lpi checkering on my TRPs so much, I wish I could get 20lpi grips as well! :D

mumbleypeg
03-16-2007, 7:29 AM
Gunners grips are great. I have 2 1911's both wear gunners. I have used them with gloves and without, for multi-day courses and IDPA and found them to be positive but not painful.

ghideon
03-16-2007, 8:54 AM
I do not find them uncomfortable either. I am more conscious of the front strap checkering than I am of the grips. Since you like the 20lpi checkering so much, you shouldn't have a problem with the grips.

If I had to carry this pistol concealed, it would have different grips. They would either rub me raw against the skin, or tear up clothing. No problems while shooting tho. They do indeed feel like stone to me. I suppose if the gun had more recoil (or I shot hot loads alot) it might get uncomfortable, but it would have to be a lot of rounds.

DrjonesUSA
03-16-2007, 9:01 AM
Oh, I'm not concerned about them being uncomfortable; I'm concerned about them not being grippy and rough enough for me!

I think I'll give them a try.....