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ocean
03-11-2007, 3:54 AM
Alright, Iíve been a lurker and procrastinator long enough. This new weapons ban threat looming on the horizon has prompted me to take action. I need to get whatever I need to get now, before anything goes into effect. Even if it doesnít, I still want to get it done, no more excuses.

Iím a young guy, and my parents were not gun people. I could really use some explanation as to what steps I need to take to purchase my first rifle before any more bans or laws go into effect.
I want to purchase the receiver and anything else I would need now, before a ban, so that I can piece the other ďnon-bannedĒ parts together as time and costs allow.
Iím looking at one of two scenarios (or possibly both):

1. Building a CA compliant M-1a/M-14.

2. Building a CA compliant AR.

Those of you willing to share your advice and time, please feel free to email me:

allthatremains03 at gmail.com

If I am posting this in the wrong area, or am out of line, please let me know.

SLYoteBoy
03-11-2007, 4:02 AM
(anyone step in here if im wrong)

For a ca compliant ar. Going to have to order a stripped lower receiver. Then get a parts kit for it. Next you want to decide , do you want a detachable magazine , or a pistol grip , you cant have both. So you can either get a bullet button , or similar mag lock device , then you can keep your pistol grip. Or go with a u15 stock , a finned grip , etc to have a detachable magazine. So based on that , you would order what kind of stock you want. Then as for the upper , anything you wanted.

Question tho , what if you lost the flash hider? could you then have pistolgrip and detachable mag? or it doesnt matter. I thot I remember reading , if you had 3 of the 5 evil features it was then an assault weapon? not clear on this.

diegojosh
03-11-2007, 4:25 AM
(anyone step in here if im wrong)

For a ca compliant ar. Going to have to order a stripped lower receiver. Then get a parts kit for it. Next you want to decide , do you want a detachable magazine , or a pistol grip , you cant have both. So you can either get a bullet button , or similar mag lock device , then you can keep your pistol grip. Or go with a u15 stock , a finned grip , etc to have a detachable magazine. So based on that , you would order what kind of stock you want. Then as for the upper , anything you wanted.

Question tho , what if you lost the flash hider? could you then have pistolgrip and detachable mag? or it doesnt matter. I thot I remember reading , if you had 3 of the 5 evil features it was then an assault weapon? not clear on this.

from what I know your above statement is correct. The fin grip you are referring to is the monsterman grip. As for your question on the flashhider, that would be a negative...detachable mag equals no evil features at all.

as for you ocean, it would be best for you to read the faq's section on calguns homepage and ask questions after you finish reading that.:)

Lateralus
03-11-2007, 12:53 PM
yea, i was about to jump in. Any semi-auto centerfire rifle with detachable mags may have NO evil features. And as always, more than ten rounds is a big no no.

+1 on reading the faq

Mark_in_Pasadena
03-11-2007, 12:59 PM
. And as always, more than ten rounds is a big no no.


I think you can use high cap mags assuming you purchased them before the ban and you don't have "evil" features....

Matt C
03-11-2007, 1:03 PM
The blind leading the blind... (not you mark)

JPN6336
03-11-2007, 1:06 PM
A detachable magazine is considered an evil feature. You are allowed one evil feature. Therefore if you have no other evil features you can use detachable magazines. It is also legal to possess and use magazines with more than 10 rounds if you owned them before the high-cap magazine ban went into place. However a rifle is an assault weapon if it has a fixed magazine with more than 10 rounds so the only way to use the higher capacity magazines is a build where the detachable magazine is the only evil feature.

USMC_2651_E5
03-11-2007, 1:11 PM
+1...Detachable mag and no "evil" features (pistol grip, flash supressor, telescoping but stock, forward vertical grip, etc.)

Or Fixed mag (10 rounds max) and all the "evil" features you want.

I think what you referenced regarding 3 or more features being illegal was the federal ban which is no longer in effect. That doesn't matter though since Cali still has more restrictive laws in effect.

jli567
03-11-2007, 1:16 PM
is a forward vertical grip an evil feature? so I can't have a u15 with a forward vertical grip?

USMC_2651_E5
03-11-2007, 1:22 PM
Yes, and you can if you fix the mag. But then the U 15 is pretty much worthless.

12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall
also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to
accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action
of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.

JPN6336
03-11-2007, 1:23 PM
12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following: (1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following: (A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon. (B) A thumbhole stock. (C) A folding or telescoping stock. (D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher. (E) A flash suppressor. (F) A forward pistol grip. (2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds. (3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.

Jicko
03-11-2007, 1:35 PM
A detachable magazine is considered an evil feature. You are allowed one evil feature. Therefore if you have no other evil features you can use detachable magazines. It is also legal to possess and use magazines with more than 10 rounds if you owned them before the high-cap magazine ban went into place. However a rifle is an assault weapon if it has a fixed magazine with more than 10 rounds so the only way to use the higher capacity magazines is a build where the detachable magazine is the only evil feature.

NOT CORRECT!

"You are allowed one evil feature." <- if you DO NOT have detachable magazine, you can as much EVIL FEATURES as you want, not only 1!

"A detachable magazine is considered an evil feature" <- the DETACHABLE MAGAZINE is a trigger to whether you can have evil features or NOT

psriley
03-11-2007, 2:00 PM
Yes, and you can if you fix the mag. But then the U 15 is pretty much worthless.

12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall
also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to
accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action
of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.


I don't want to hijack the thread here, but it's relevant to the OP's question, and I'm in the same boat he is (considering building a legal AR). I was asking an FFL the other day if they would transfer and DROS a stripped OLL for me. They advised against it, stating that even with the Prince maglocks and bullet buttons, the lower still has "capacity to accept" a detachable mag. They said the only truly legal way to go is a permanently sealed mag well like a Fab10 or Bushmaster Carbon 15 CA model. They said that just needing a tool to remove the mag does not disable the lower's capacity to accept a removeable mag. I sort of interpret the law the same way, but I'm no expert.

Do the available maglock kits actually disable the lower's "capacity to accept a detachable mag"?

Mark_in_Pasadena
03-11-2007, 2:43 PM
Just to add into the mix, if you use a bullet button and ONLY use 10 round mags that is not considered an "evil" feature, correct?

JPN6336
03-11-2007, 2:52 PM
NOT CORRECT!

"You are allowed one evil feature." <- if you DO NOT have detachable magazine, you can as much EVIL FEATURES as you want, not only 1!

"A detachable magazine is considered an evil feature" <- the DETACHABLE MAGAZINE is a trigger to whether you can have evil features or NOT

You're right, I misstated it.

JPN6336
03-11-2007, 2:59 PM
I don't want to hijack the thread here, but it's relevant to the OP's question, and I'm in the same boat he is (considering building a legal AR). I was asking an FFL the other day if they would transfer and DROS a stripped OLL for me. They advised against it, stating that even with the Prince maglocks and bullet buttons, the lower still has "capacity to accept" a detachable mag. They said the only truly legal way to go is a permanently sealed mag well like a Fab10 or Bushmaster Carbon 15 CA model. They said that just needing a tool to remove the mag does not disable the lower's capacity to accept a removeable mag. I sort of interpret the law the same way, but I'm no expert.

Do the available maglock kits actually disable the lower's "capacity to accept a detachable mag"?

A detachable magazine is one that does not require a tool to remove. For the Prince and bullet button kits, a tool is required therefore it is not a detachable magazine. If there is already a fixed magazine in the one and only magazine well then the laws of the physical universe say that it will not accept another in that same location.

The DOJ tried to change the definition of capacity to accept so that a receiver required a magazine to be welded, riveted or by some other means "permanently altered" in order to no longer have the capacity to accept a detachable magazine. That would have made the current fixed magazine kits illegal but nothing has come of that since the comment period closed.

Of course all of this is interpretation of the law that has not been verified by any legal authority such as a court test case but it follows logically withing the wording of the laws.