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View Full Version : Did I screw up? Non Chromed barrel?


billym
03-10-2007, 3:43 PM
I just realized the upper I bought today is a heavy barrel and is not chrome lined. It is a Stag 4H upper and the catalog says "heavy barrel" not chrome lined.
I asked the gal at CWS if it was chrome lined and she said it was.
I like everything else about this upper. Should I worry about the barrel?

Mark_in_Pasadena
03-10-2007, 3:47 PM
OK let me get this straight, either Mitchell or her daughter said the barrel was chrome lined and it isn't? If so I would just let them know, they're cool as hell and you shouldn't have a problem replacing it.

With regards to it not being chromed, the only issue is making sure you clean it and don't leave it in the rain....:D

MonsterMan
03-10-2007, 3:47 PM
It will probably serve you fine. All my other rifles aren't chrome lined and they are great.

I think the majority around here like the chromed lined barrels because they are easier to clean, don't rust as easy, and they last a long time. But if you take good care of your rifles and keep them clean, it shouldn't be a problem.

I have an upper that isn't chrome lined and I like it.

I am sure others will chime in with their opinions on the matter.

NRAhighpowershooter
03-10-2007, 3:50 PM
the non-chrome lined barrel will last you about 7-8K rounds..... chrome lined about 18K +

billym
03-10-2007, 3:51 PM
OK let me get this straight, either Mitchell or her daughter said the barrel was chrome lined and it isn't? If so I would just let them know, they're cool as hell and you shouldn't have a problem replacing it.

With regards to it not being chromed, the only issue is making sure you clean it and don't leave it in the rain....:D

It was a short woman about 45 with reddish hair.

I love everything else about the upper and it looks like Stag does not sell a 20" upper with a chrome lined barrel. I don't want a 16" barrel for my first build.

dondo
03-10-2007, 3:57 PM
I do not think that the 4H is chrome lined. You can howeve return it and get the CMMG 20" upper that CWS sells. It is chrome lined, gov. contour and mil spec coolness 1:7 twist...if it really matters. Its cheaper than the 4h too. All this information is also...free.

RossRinSD
03-10-2007, 4:11 PM
I alwayz value your opinion... but,
the non-chrome lined barrel will last you about 7-8K rounds..... chrome lined about 18K +

7-8k rounds doesn't seem like very much. Don't some guys shoot 500-1k rounds in a weekend???

JPN6336
03-10-2007, 4:13 PM
I do not think that the 4H is chrome lined. You can howeve return it and get the CMMG 20" upper that CWS sells. It is chrome lined, gov. contour and mil spec coolness 1:7 twist...if it really matters. Its cheaper than the 4h too. All this information is also...free.

The CMMG is a flattop while the 4H is an A2. Most likely this accounts for the price difference.

billym
03-10-2007, 4:17 PM
I definitely want to keep the removeable handle feature of the H4.

How difficult is it to change the barrel when it is worn out? If it is not too hard I might just upgrade it when I wear this one out.

Mark_in_Pasadena
03-10-2007, 4:22 PM
I definitely want to keep the removeable handle feature of the H4.

How difficult is it to change the barrel when it is worn out? If it is not too hard I might just upgrade it when I wear this one out.

Good question, and I don't have the answer to that, all I know is that if I was going to replace my barrel it would be with a Noveske... From what I've read, they are one of the best barrels on the market, and the price tag shows it....:eek:

bwiese
03-10-2007, 4:23 PM
[quote]How difficult is it to change the barrel when it is worn out? If it is not too hard I might just upgrade it when I wear this one out.

Some people do it themselves, and a local smith can do it for ~$50.

Given that it's a Stag I don't think they'll have rough or over-tight chambers. It'll shoot well.

billym
03-10-2007, 5:02 PM
Thanks everyone. Thanks Bill.
I think I will keep it and in time buy a new barrel. Maybe by them I will be willing to do it by myself. Otherwise I will gladly pay a gunsmith for their services.

Is the 8000 round range the true expected life of the H4 stock barrel?
Why would it be so low? What causes it to wear out? Just want to keep learnin'.

Bill

blacklisted
03-10-2007, 5:18 PM
I alwayz value your opinion... but,


7-8k rounds doesn't seem like very much. Don't some guys shoot 500-1k rounds in a weekend???

He's probably referring to acceptable accuracy, but I'm just guessing.

bwiese
03-10-2007, 5:20 PM
Thanks everyone. Thanks Bill.
I think I will keep it and in time buy a new barrel. Maybe by them I will be willing to do it by myself. Otherwise I will gladly pay a gunsmith for their services.

Is the 8000 round range the true expected life of the H4 stock barrel?
Why would it be so low? What causes it to wear out? Just want to keep learnin'.


Chrome lining is much harder even than the best barrel steels (4150, which I think your bbl is made of). It also has high 'lubricity' (i.e, bullet slides easier due to lower friction).

Barrels wear out first at the front end of the chamber (chamber erosion), after which accuracy decreases. This typically is around 8K rounds for this type of rifle, though the bbl is likely still fairly usable for several thousand rounds after that: it's just that the accuracy has a somewhat noticeable change here. However, those perceptions may be reduced if you're using cheaper/less accurate ammo.

5.56/223 uses fast bullets, generally with a faster twist (esp 1-in-7" twist), which wears bbls more quickly.

Chrome lined chambers/bores are much harder/slicker and heat resistant. They can be useable to 30K rounds (15K under hard hot rapid fire conditions).

NRAhighpowershooter
03-10-2007, 5:20 PM
He's probably referring to acceptable accuracy, but I'm just guessing.

basically..... on a quality barrel you will see accuracy degration at 600yds around 5-6K. For close in work under 100yd plinking... the barrel will last you
9K - 10K rnds....

Technical Ted
03-10-2007, 5:28 PM
Chrome lined chambers/bores are much harder/slicker and heat resistant. They can be useable to 30K rounds (15K under hard hot rapid fire conditions).
Where'd you get those numbers? More like 10-12k is the average for a semi-auto AR15 chrome lined barrel.

RossRinSD
03-10-2007, 5:36 PM
I've been looking at a Rocker River Arms uppers. I was thinking about popping the extra $40 for a chrome lined one. Now I'm definately doing it, especially if doubles the life of the gun.

xenophobe
03-10-2007, 6:16 PM
For close in work under 100yd plinking... the barrel will last you
9K - 10K rnds....

Under 300y, you will probably not notice a drop in accuracy for at least 10k, and possibly more.

Many of the rifles issued at basic were original M16s and M16A1's from the sixties with original barrels. Most of them shot just fine for qualifications and I could guarantee they saw way past 10k rounds counts.

NRAhighpowershooter
03-10-2007, 7:30 PM
Just for poops and grins.. on one of my M1A's that started off with a new in wrap TRW barrel it saw 18K rounds in 6 yrs of HP shooting. it now has a TE of 2 and muzzle wear still reading 0.5 and it will still hold the 10 ring on a SR target at 200yds... Chrome lined barrels DO last! :cool:

bwiese
03-10-2007, 10:59 PM
Where'd you get those numbers? More like 10-12k is the average for a semi-auto AR15 chrome lined barrel.

In more rapid fire use (with fair barrel heating) yes - with full house rounds.

But I've heard several times that the degradation for ordinary plinking fire without barrel overheating doesnt appreciably open up until somewhat past 20+K for commercial ammo. The 1 in 9" twist bbls last a tad longer too than the faster twists.

Also, most folks are not running full-house M193 or M855 n these and are using milder WWB or UMC or Fed Amer Eagle or even Wolf. And casual shooters are not gonna notice the small delta in accuracy on a not-perceived-as-match barrel.

Prc329
03-11-2007, 12:14 AM
bwiese,

Stainless steel barrel, 1-8 twist running Xm198. What would the expected life be about?

anonymous
03-11-2007, 7:32 AM
Your forgetting another factor. Probably the reason the 20" heavy barrel is the only Stag model that is not chrome lined is because it is well documented and studied that chrome lining reduces accuracy.

PIRATE14
03-11-2007, 9:31 AM
We've talked to Stag about this and they don't want to chrome line it because they want a 1 MOA gun. If you really want a chrome lined barrel, just bring it back and we'll get you a Rock River.

Thanks for your business.

Sorry about the mistake.

bwiese
03-11-2007, 11:12 AM
Your forgetting another factor. Probably the reason the 20" heavy barrel is the only Stag model that is not chrome lined is because it is well documented and studied that chrome lining reduces accuracy.

No that is untrue, and a twisting of data. It's more a reflection of the acceptance vs reject rate.

Chrome lining does not reduce accuracy per se: a higher percentage of barrels could be rejected. Given there's 25%-33% rejection for the barrel chroming process anyway, they're gonna recover as many barrels as possible to sell. It's better to say the chrome-lining process creates some good and some so-so barrels, and that all of these get sold. Chromed bores cannot be touched up, corrected w/finish reamers, etc.

There are several bolt guns - including the FN Special Police Rifle (kinda like a Remington 700PSS) - that have chrome-lined barrels. These are same-hole tack-driver guns. Many of the new varmint guns shooting the new WSSM calibers also have chrome-lined barrels to stop chamber erosion, and these are very accurate guns too.

Custom bbl makers and bottom-feeder AR vendors don't like to paint chrome lining in a favorable light because the former don't have the resources to pay for it along with all the rejected bbls, and the latter don't wanna spend $35 more for a chromed bbl because their cheap-arsed customer base won't spring for it.

billym
03-11-2007, 12:10 PM
We've talked to Stag about this and they don't want to chrome line it because they want a 1 MOA gun. If you really want a chrome lined barrel, just bring it back and we'll get you a Rock River.

Thanks for your business.

Sorry about the mistake.

I went back to the Cow Palace and spoke to Hector at CWS. He was real cool and took the time to answer my questions. After talking it through I am sticking with the Stag for this project but now I feel better about my purchase.

THANKS TO CWS THEY REALLY OFFERED ME GREAT CUSTOMER SERVICE!