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View Full Version : Opinions wanted: Kel Tec SU16 or OLL AR


RobG
03-10-2007, 1:44 PM
I want a fun shooter with good accuracy but, I also don't want to raise eyebrows every time I hit a range.

The KT would be a CA model with a short fore end and the OLL would be something with a 16 or 18 barrel with a "varmint" style set-up rather than an A4 style. Scoped with ?? at this time.

Price difference will be in the 3-400 range I am guessing.

All opinions are appreciated.

bwiese
03-10-2007, 2:37 PM
You will not raise eyebrows at the range with an OLL rifle.

An OLL AR-type rifle can be accessorized in a zillion different ways, and with a decent barrel will be more accurate.

hoffmang
03-10-2007, 2:47 PM
I own both and for range and home defense use, I prefer various OLLs.

I will end up using my SU-16 as a trunk gun however.

-Gene

E Pluribus Unum
03-10-2007, 2:52 PM
Thats like asking:

What would you rather have? Food or water?

Get them both....

jumbopanda
03-10-2007, 3:00 PM
AR all the way. Not only is it a better .223 rifle, you can also get uppers in various calibers.

Heavy_Grinder
03-10-2007, 3:04 PM
Thats like asking:

What would you rather have? Food or water?

Get them both....

I concur. Acquired my tec16 before I ever knew about the whole oll thing. I loved it then and I still love it now. Reading this post reminds me that I still have a bare naked CMMG oll that needs to be filled in.

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l232/Arch_Royal/SU16andCmmgOLL2.jpg
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l232/Arch_Royal/SU16andCmmgOLL1.jpg
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l232/Arch_Royal/2.jpgFor your amusement

Teletiger7
03-10-2007, 3:10 PM
Whered you get that Kobra scope? How much was it?

I concur. Acquired my tec16 before I ever knew about the whole oll thing. I loved it then and I still love it now. Reading this post reminds me that I still have a bare naked CMMG oll that needs to be filled in.

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l232/Arch_Royal/SU16andCmmgOLL2.jpg
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l232/Arch_Royal/SU16andCmmgOLL1.jpg
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l232/Arch_Royal/2.jpgFor your amusement

SemiAutoSam
03-10-2007, 3:18 PM
OK now remember before any of you flame me here he asked for opinions.

SO to be totally honest my opinion of the SU16 is that its a Cheap POS.

Maybe the better model for it would have been POS16.

In this caliber rifle I like the Colt AR15 or the Stoner weapon system from the 60's.

I'm use to a quality weapon and have always owned quality weapons hence you can see that since I own quality rifles this SU16 item would fall into the category of a Mini14 or something else that would be sub par to the OLL Rifle.

If the rifle hasn't been used by a military its generally not worth my time.

As example the FN FAL, The HK91, The SIG, The M16, Have all been military rifles I seriously doubt that the SU16 would ever be used by any military.

Even a 3rd world country would not waste their $$$ on a SU16 rifle.

hoffmang
03-10-2007, 3:42 PM
Sam,

Maybe you could insert he word "cheap" instead of "junk." This is not a high dollar high quality rifle. It is a decent quality rifle that shoots well for the price. It really should be compared to a backpack .22 and not to an AR-15.

-Gene

Toolbox X
03-10-2007, 4:29 PM
I have an SU-16.

Personally I prefer rifles that don't have failure to extract problems at least twice per magazine.

Kel-Tec didn't bother to chrome line the chamber of the SU-16. So if you want to experience the weapon miseries of being a soldier in the jungles of Vietnam with a first issue M16 that didn't have a chrome lined chamber, the SU-16 is for you.

The SU-16's POS-ness is one of the reasons I designed the U-15.

-Grant

Jicko
03-10-2007, 5:00 PM
I want a fun shooter with good accuracy but, I also don't want to raise eyebrows every time I hit a range.

The KT would be a CA model with a short fore end and the OLL would be something with a 16 or 18 barrel with a "varmint" style set-up rather than an A4 style. Scoped with ?? at this time.

Price difference will be in the 3-400 range I am guessing.

All opinions are appreciated.

Do you even have to ASK this question!? Duh! :D

WokMaster1
03-10-2007, 5:29 PM
I have an SU-16.

Personally I prefer rifles that don't have failure to extract problems at least twice per magazine.

Kel-Tec didn't bother to chrome line the chamber of the SU-16. So if you want to experience the weapon miseries of being a soldier in the jungles of Vietnam with a first issue M16 that didn't have a chrome lined chamber, the SU-16 is for you.

The SU-16's POS-ness is one of the reasons I designed the U-15.

-Grant

Grant, that is a really touching story. I am telling you with tears in my eyes, I'll take that SU-16 off your hands,.....$300;)

Love your U-15 stock, can't wait to get home & install it.:D

LECTRIKHED
03-10-2007, 6:04 PM
I'd go with a Kel-Tec. I had a run in a while ago with LEO officers while shooting on a friends private property. Idiot neighbor that just moved in freaked out. Anyways, everything worked out, they inspected our guns and said we were ok. I had my Kel-Tec with me. I think things would have gone differently if I had an OLL. I know I would have eventually won, but I'm glad I didn't have to deal with that headache. Plus the keltec can be easily brought up to speed and all the issues fixed with some new parts (kel tec gives them to you for free).

1911_Mitch
03-10-2007, 7:35 PM
I like my Kel Tec SU16CA for the following reasons:
Lightweight
Folds
Holds a 30 rnd AR mag in the stock
Detachable AR mags
did I mention lightweight

I like my ARs better for the following reasons:
can accessorize till my credit bleeds
Chaning uppers takes 30 seconds
More accurate
More durable
More reliable?> my SU has never had a failure, my ARs are still in testing
its blacker (read more evil) even if it does shoot the same ammo from the same detachable magazines, and is just as easy to hold:p
I can spray bullets from the hip without reloading:eek: :D

Go with the AR at this point.:cool:

Toolbox X
03-10-2007, 10:13 PM
Grant, that is a really touching story. I am telling you with tears in my eyes, I'll take that SU-16 off your hands,.....$300;)

Love your U-15 stock, can't wait to get home & install it.:D

$300 - SOLD!!! PM me and she's yours. I can really use the safe space.

-Grant

WokMaster1
03-10-2007, 11:18 PM
$300 - SOLD!!! PM me and she's yours. I can really use the safe space.

-Grant

PM sent!

thefinger
03-10-2007, 11:44 PM
AR15.

the SU16 is ugly and feels like the Nerf gun I had when I was 10.

RobG
03-11-2007, 8:05 AM
That wasn't much of a contest. I did get a chance to see the KT locally and gotta say feels flimsy and cheaply made, definitely not worth the 630.00 asking price.

Thanks for all the opinions.

Q
03-11-2007, 8:22 AM
this is how I would rate the ca legal (approved) list for 223 in ar or su16.
best to worst.
1. ca legal factory pinned vulcan v-15
2. ca legal factory flush magwell bushmaster carbon 15
3. fab 10
4. kel tec su-16s
5. evan's welded magwell on banned colts
:)

zippo
03-11-2007, 8:50 AM
I just sold all my ar part and still have high cap mag. I plan to get kel-tel because is can use what part I have (mag).
and I do not plan to shoot like 1' at 200 yard just fun shooting that all I want, kel-tel seen to fit my plan.
is all up to U that what U want , want to be a markman get AR just fun shooting get SU-16 .
that is my idea
zippo

diegojosh
03-11-2007, 9:02 AM
I just sold all my ar part and still have high cap mag. I plan to get kel-tel because is can use what part I have (mag).
and I do not plan to shoot like 1' at 200 yard just fun shooting that all I want, kel-tel seen to fit my plan.
is all up to U that what U want , want to be a markman get AR just fun shooting get SU-16 .
that is my idea
zippo

you sold your AR for a SU-16?!:eek: :eek:

DV8
03-11-2007, 9:13 AM
You guys are funny, vietnam, battle rifle blah blah blah :rolleyes: Since when are you ever going to take your rifle into battle or to vietnam? Are you Chuck Norris?

I'm not saying the SU is on par with the AR because its not. It was great before all this OLL stuff happened because you could use you old AR mags and it was another alternative to the mini.

If you're paranoid get the SU and use those regular cap mags you stashed away before the ban. If not, get the AR and experience what the rest of free America has. If you want cheap and reliable get a Saiga/AK :)

tenpercentfirearms
03-11-2007, 9:25 AM
My SU16 never fed correctly. I was always having malfunctions. As soon as the OLL blew up, I sold it and never looked back. That same ammo that was jamming in my SU16 now shoots out of my OLLs no problem.

Richie Rich
03-11-2007, 9:43 AM
In ARFcom fashion I have to say.

GET BOTH!!!

I did

I must be one of the lucky ones, I have about 5-600 rounds thru my SU16CA and other then the very first round not firing, no problems since.

Not using the factory mags..

maxicon
03-11-2007, 11:27 AM
I have both, and for a range gun, you can't beat the AR if you don't mind the extra money. You can also have different uppers that swap in no time for different uses, as well as a near-infinite number of accessories (costing a near-infinite amount of $$).

There's nothing wrong with the SU16 - it's essentially the Mini 14 for the 21st century - and it has some advantages over a typical AR in cost, weight, compactness, and simplicity. If I wanted a trunk gun or something to pack out in times of need, the SU16 has the upper hand there.

For an accurate range gun, though, the AR's a clear winner.

sorensen440
03-11-2007, 6:54 PM
I want a fun shooter with good accuracy but, I also don't want to raise eyebrows every time I hit a range.

The KT would be a CA model with a short fore end and the OLL would be something with a 16 or 18 barrel with a "varmint" style set-up rather than an A4 style. Scoped with ?? at this time.

Price difference will be in the 3-400 range I am guessing.

All opinions are appreciated.

if you plan on scoping it I deffinatly recomend against the su-16
(defeats the point of what I consider to be a great backpack gun)

shark92651
03-11-2007, 7:43 PM
I bought an SU-16CA before I found out about OLL's. I also had FTE issues with my Kel-Tec, but I replaced the extractor with a bushmaster extractor assembly (around $15) and I haven't experienced any issues since. If you don't want (or can't afford) to own both, I would recommend an OLL. I want every gun owner in California to own an OLL. The more common they are the less likely we will hear about the occasional confiscation, the dropping of charges, the eventual return of the rifle, etc...

Rivet
03-11-2007, 7:48 PM
No vote for XRC? The best of both worlds in my opinion.:D

CA SHOOTER
03-11-2007, 8:15 PM
Like a couple others have said get both :D .
Here are mine ...
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g273/JamesDub131/DSC00818.jpg

C.G.
03-11-2007, 11:28 PM
Yup, get both.

sorensen440
03-11-2007, 11:36 PM
I agree on the both
Ive had a su for about 7 months now and yesterday I paid for my first oll

GI_JOE
03-11-2007, 11:57 PM
If you have the cash, buy both. I did. Buy the OLL AR first though.

1911su16b870
03-12-2007, 8:36 AM
+1 for owning one of each.

I've had my SU16b for over 14 months with nothing bad to report. Even took a cabine course with it no problems. Shot alot of the PMC green 223, which is really dirty stuff, but the SU16 is very easy to break down and clean out.

+1 for buying a OLL and building your SB23 compliant AR as time and funds allow.

proraptor
03-12-2007, 10:15 AM
No contest build an AR

redneckshootist
03-12-2007, 10:30 AM
+1 for both, I bought a SU-16 last year and in january I bought three OLL and am almost done building them.
the SU-16 never gave me problems so I must be one of the lucky ones

3GunFunShooter
03-12-2007, 2:35 PM
+1 on both.
Bought my Kel-Tec SU16 CA 3 weeks before the OLL hit.
Finally fired it. 75 rounds and no problems.
At 100 yard, was hitting a 10" steel plate.
So far so good.
As mentioned, makes a good truck/trunk/backpack gun.
Better half likes it too, lighter.
I also have an OLL and Mini 14.
Yes the OLL is a better gun and the Mini will run forever, but
I like the compactness of the KEL-TEC Got the railed forend on it.

mltrading
03-12-2007, 4:06 PM
The choice is clear.

shooterx10
03-13-2007, 10:12 AM
If the Kel-Tec SU-16 was:

1. ALL metal receiver
2. no brass extraction issues
3. little if any plastic
4. used metal mags instead of the cheap plastic
5. more barrel options (HBAR, Bull, carbine, etc.)

for the same price as it is sold now, I'd probably have at least two in the safe. :D

But then again, looking at the rest of Kel-Tec's stuff, I wouldn't hold my breathe for an all metal version any time soon.

Still waiting for the Beretta RX-4! ;)

HUTCH 7.62
03-13-2007, 6:09 PM
I love and own both. it just depends on how much money you want to pay. remember they will be both banned in a few years by Komrade Hillary Clinton but the AR-15 will most likley the first to go in Kommieforniastand.

Clodbuster
03-14-2007, 1:07 PM
Hmm... sounds like my excuse for never buying a Glock...

A standard GI 30 rounder will fit in the space used by the 2 keltec mags.

Clod

If the Kel-Tec SU-16 was:

1. ALL metal receiver
2. no brass extraction issues
3. little if any plastic
4. used metal mags instead of the cheap plastic
5. more barrel options (HBAR, Bull, carbine, etc.)

for the same price as it is sold now, I'd probably have at least two in the safe. :D

But then again, looking at the rest of Kel-Tec's stuff, I wouldn't hold my breathe for an all metal version any time soon.

Still waiting for the Beretta RX-4! ;)

sthornwall
03-14-2007, 1:11 PM
I say go for the CA-15 first and then follow-up with the Kel-Tec. Why not both, eventually. Besides there are so many more mods you can do with an AR-15 type rifle, more fun to have in my opinion. I like to be artistic with my builds, I love getting the 'wow' factor from people when they see my rifles for the first time.

grammaton76
03-14-2007, 5:50 PM
I have the SU-16CA and a "few" AR's.

I don't fire the SU that often, but it's less picky about ammo than my AR's and it does work pretty nicely.

Also fits just fine underneath the rear passenger seats of a Nissan Pathfinder...

Geoffkoop
03-14-2007, 8:47 PM
AR's look cooler :)

Stanky626
03-14-2007, 9:34 PM
I own both: an SU-16CA and a DSA OLL and DPMS upper AR. I purchased the SU first thinking the AR was too risky. But, I like to live dangerously, so I ended up building an AR, too. Now, I barely take the SU out. The AR is truly a treat to shoot. I locked the mag, so the AR is my only pistol grip long gun. I just received my monsterman grip in the mail, so I may give it a try in the near future. But, I may very well leave the mag locked.

Overall, the AR feels more solid than my SU and is much more accurrate. Plus, my AR was built for about $830 and my SU was purchased for $560 + tax. For $270 more, I'd go with the AR. I've been thinking about selling my SU and buying a new O/U shotgun.

This is just my 2 pennies. Hope this helps.
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r146/stanky626/Rifles.jpg