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View Full Version : I hope this is legal (finally)!


NorCArl
12-20-2011, 7:32 PM
So I think I finished my Saiga build for a while... I've been dancing around with the compliance issues lately and I think I finally covered all the bases- Tell me how you think I did:
First the U.S. made parts issue-
Tapco T6 Collapsible Stock Set- (1 US part )
Tapco 10/20 mag - (3 US Parts)
AND Just in case I also have a Tapco U.S. gas piston that could be installed fairly easily.
As far as the evil features I have a forward folding UTG grip as well as the rear Tapco grip, but I also have the bullet button installed on there, and my import parts total is 10,so I think I'm good.
Other Parts include the UTG quad rail, a 3x9 cqb scope, a little bipod that I never use, and a bullet guide from Dinzag.

http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i426/robalark/PC200317.jpg

And here she is with some of my other "tacticool" weapons:

http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i426/robalark/PC200319.jpg

Saiga 7.62x39, GSG 522 SD, Beretta PX4 .40, Rock Island 1911 .45

nrakid88
12-20-2011, 7:44 PM
I honestly think you will be able to shoot that thing better with irons. You will get a MUCH better cheek weld.

NorCArl
12-20-2011, 7:48 PM
I agree, impossible cheek weld plus the scope and mount add a ton of weight to an already beefy rifle... I'd like to change it over to rear aperture from krebs custom but cant afford it while the wife knows I have these parts around.

nrakid88
12-20-2011, 8:16 PM
Keep the standard rear sight, you can adjust it to like 1000 yards, not so with the krebs custom. You could lose a little weight by ditching that top rail on the gas tube. Also you can just drill holes in the original saiga forearm, screw in a MOE rail section, and use that forward grip.

But this is coming from someone who LOVES bone stock AK's. I'd love to shoot yours, its just not my cup of tea. Congrats, 7.62 AK's are fun as hell to shoot.

SDRider858
12-20-2011, 8:26 PM
Congrats on the build!

IMHO you should do the conversion the right away and move the FCG forward. You will like it 1000000x more, trust me. The LOP looks like it would be uncomfortable unless you had long arms.

IrishPirate
12-20-2011, 8:28 PM
At least the Chico mall will be safe now....


I'm not 100% sure, but i don't think that magazines count when you're counting up your US made parts.....I'd be happy to learn that i'm wrong though!!! Looks like a fun build, you should have even more fun shooting all the trash left behind at the clay pits.

Post a range report when you get a chance :thumbsup:

sharkforce
12-20-2011, 9:52 PM
:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm:

That has to be the worst conversion I have seen so far. Tacticool is fine but using that tapco stock is just lazy. continuing on to the front, why are you using the UTG quad rail. its not even a US part and adds zero functionality to the way you have it setup. why did you go with that giant bullet button, why not go with a solar tac???

zfields
12-20-2011, 9:58 PM
I give it a couple months before you come to your senses and do a real pistol grip conversion. Its 1000% worth it for a much better trigger.

Fot
12-20-2011, 10:21 PM
Looks legal to me both federal and cali. Just don't use the stock mag.

http://jobson.us/922r/ Here is a good worksheet for 922.

Rifle looks good, but would look better converted.

MrPlink
12-20-2011, 11:12 PM
Keep the standard rear sight, you can adjust it to like 1000 yards, not so with the krebs custom. .

and we all know AKs def shoot that far :cool:

FiveSeven
12-20-2011, 11:50 PM
To much cheap stuff slapped on that rifle.
$ave and do something decent if you like modified AK/Saiga.

loosewreck
12-21-2011, 12:12 AM
Guys, take it easy on the new guy.

To me it looks heavy.

Not my cup of tea, but if you like it that's all that counts.

Later down, maybe consider a rail mounted TRS25 or Primary Arms Micro, stubby VFG and some ladder covers. This might lighten, as well as clean it up.

ChaneRZ
12-21-2011, 1:15 AM
Too much tacticool for me. It is your build so you must like it.:cool:

ZX-10R
12-21-2011, 6:07 AM
I honestly think you will be able to shoot that thing better with irons. You will get a MUCH better cheek weld.

No he won't. If he wants groups at distances over 100yrds he will need optics. One thing to shoot it is another to shoot groups consistently.

Good job OP. I would have rather kept the stock stock on that though.

NorCArl
12-21-2011, 7:21 AM
Wow, thx for the feedback everyone- Now to address some comments:
The reason I have the 'cheap' stuff is that I am a married college student who loves to shoot, what I have is what I was able to get for free or cheap from local ads and shows... not a lot of room for spending in my accessory budget and unlike some other people I am content to get the results I want regardless of country of origin... The reason it is unconverted is because I do like the longer LOP and have no problem with the rube goldberg trigger, also again no $$$ for the upgrade. As far as optics/irons i go back and forth constantly, I dont feel the need to keep my stuff in one configuration forever, so the quad rail lets me change flashlights/lasers/grips at will. It also weighs almost exactly the same as the stock foregrip so no prob there. BTW thanks to those of you who understand 'to each his own' and dont expect us all to throw 1000 bucks on a 300 dollar rifle. (5-7)

chead
12-21-2011, 8:17 AM
Looks like a reasonable budget conversion to me. I think you'd probably be happier moving the trigger group forward, but it's your gun. Wrap something around that stock as a riser :)

ns3v3n
12-21-2011, 8:35 AM
Glad you're happy with your build op, but your rails alone would cover your internal parts if you were going to move the trigger group forward. And the Trigger is way better.

0351USMC
12-21-2011, 8:38 AM
:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm:

That has to be the worst conversion I have seen so far. Tacticool is fine but using that tapco stock is just lazy. continuing on to the front, why are you using the UTG quad rail. its not even a US part and adds zero functionality to the way you have it setup. why did you go with that giant bullet button, why not go with a solar tac???

He cant use solar tac,,because rear trigger&guard location(unmodified saiga)

FeuerFrei
12-21-2011, 8:43 AM
Wow, thx for the feedback everyone- Now to address some comments:
The reason I have the 'cheap' stuff is that I am a married college student who loves to shoot, what I have is what I was able to get for free or cheap from local ads and shows... not a lot of room for spending in my accessory budget and unlike some other people I am content to get the results I want regardless of country of origin... The reason it is unconverted is because I do like the longer LOP and have no problem with the rube goldberg trigger, also again no $$$ for the upgrade. As far as optics/irons i go back and forth constantly, I dont feel the need to keep my stuff in one configuration forever, so the quad rail lets me change flashlights/lasers/grips at will. It also weighs almost exactly the same as the stock foregrip so no prob there. BTW thanks to those of you who understand 'to each his own' and dont expect us all to throw 1000 bucks on a 300 dollar rifle. (5-7)

Good first version of your rifle.
I say first version because once the mods start they will not stop. There's always something else you can do that will improve on what you have.
Good budget rifle.

cannon
12-21-2011, 8:57 AM
OP, Hate your rifle. :D

Just teasing you. You have a very durable and reliable rifle and I'm glad you are having fun with it.

As you change it around and shoot it you will find the perfect set up for you. Have fun and enjoy the process.

chead
12-21-2011, 9:08 AM
Could we please not hate on a guy because he's on a budget? That is a perfectly functional rifle. If he can see through the optic and bullets come out, good.

FiveSeven
12-21-2011, 9:17 AM
Wow, thx for the feedback everyone- Now to address some comments:
The reason I have the 'cheap' stuff is that I am a married college student who loves to shoot, what I have is what I was able to get for free or cheap from local ads and shows... not a lot of room for spending in my accessory budget and unlike some other people I am content to get the results I want regardless of country of origin... The reason it is unconverted is because I do like the longer LOP and have no problem with the rube goldberg trigger, also again no $$$ for the upgrade. As far as optics/irons i go back and forth constantly, I dont feel the need to keep my stuff in one configuration forever, so the quad rail lets me change flashlights/lasers/grips at will. It also weighs almost exactly the same as the stock foregrip so no prob there. BTW thanks to those of you who understand 'to each his own' and dont expect us all to throw 1000 bucks on a 300 dollar rifle. (5-7)

Sorry that my opinion offends you.
It's just that, my opinion if you like your rifle than that is all that matters.
I surely don't expect everyone to like my modifications.
IMO if you mod AK and use optics, the most important thing is proper cheek weld and ergonomics, balance and weight being last.

pyro3k2
12-21-2011, 9:55 AM
good start!

I am going to make a prediction that even without harassment from the super cool internet AK community that within 1k rounds you are going to finish the conversion on it. In the mean time figure out what you like and what you want and go from there. But most importantly have fun :)

NorCArl
12-21-2011, 12:45 PM
A little update... on the friendly (and some unfriendly) advice of a few senior members I tried some new setups today: call me crazy but Im one of those guys who doesn't believe in the perfect setup, and whose gun projects are NEVER done. I decided to try getting rid of the quad rail, attaching a rail to the stock forearm, went to iron sights and took to the local range. MUCH better cheek weld but usable distance for these eyeballs is < 100 yds. only. Weight is about the same but ergos seem better IMO. Any other suggestions (besides the conversion) are welcome... I'm always looking for ideas. Hey NRAkid88- check out what I whipped up on your forearm suggestion...
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i426/robalark/PC210320.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i426/robalark/PC210321.jpg
Also mini range report on the GSG 522 SD: got that sightmark as an early xmas gift, dialed in @ 100 yds. hitting a rubber top hat EVERY time w/ federal bulk ammo- MY NEW FAVORITE RIFLE! Empties the clip inside a nickel sized hole @ 25 ft!

FeuerFrei
12-21-2011, 1:09 PM
See that! Version 2.0 already.
Keep shooting it and find the sweet spot for looks and functionality.
Carry on.

ChaneRZ
12-21-2011, 1:47 PM
I like this look better.

stix213
12-21-2011, 3:16 PM
Good job on getting a Saiga. You will like it better if you do a proper pistol grip conversion though. I didn't think so before, but I ended up doing it and have been very happy with my setup. You really see the improvement in balance after its done. Good thing is you can make it a future project. the youtube videos are all you need.

Here's my two Saiga rifles:

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3682/saigas.jpg

imarangemaster
12-21-2011, 3:41 PM
Contrary to what my brothers on the Saiga12 forum say, I think the unrestored Saiga with the Tapco T-6 grip/stock is a decent pice of kit. Sure a restored Saiga has a better trigger, but the T-6 is viable, especially for a new shooter that is not already used to the balance of the regular AK. The Druganov style stock is also a decent option on an unrestored Saiga.

69powerwagon
12-21-2011, 4:26 PM
I like the 2nd version. Good way to attach the front grip, not too much rail to get in the way. If you want a good iron sight I'd get a Krebs. It helps me a lot for ease of target acquisition and decreases reacquisition time. It is what I run for my backup on my rpk, and solo on the romak. And you can buy the Krebs calibrated out to 1,000 if you want (you know for all those ak "sniper" shots you make when the 800 simply won't do.)

Fot
12-21-2011, 5:43 PM
I wouldn't put pics up with the stock mag inserted..

zfields
12-21-2011, 5:46 PM
I wouldn't put pics up with the stock mag inserted..

he has tapco mags in all his pics.

jonc
12-21-2011, 5:47 PM
Nice build

NorCArl
12-21-2011, 7:06 PM
Contrary to what my brothers on the Saiga12 forum say, I think the unrestored Saiga with the Tapco T-6 grip/stock is a decent pice of kit. Sure a restored Saiga has a better trigger, but the T-6 is viable, especially for a new shooter that is not already used to the balance of the regular AK. The Druganov style stock is also a decent option on an unrestored Saiga.

This is true, I've never fired a converted Saiga or traditional AK... I'm the only one of my friends into shooting and dont get to fire anyone else's toys too often so this setup seems plenty natural to me. I do have a drillpress and various tools, just no experience, cash or cahones to do the conversion myself.

Mamluke
12-21-2011, 7:41 PM
Personally not a fan of the 'tacticool' look of rifles, AK's in particular!

A picture of a Syrian army defector (foreground) with a tacticool AK variant of some sort & another (background) with a classic looking AK:

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2011-12/66926527.jpg
(Sezayi Erken, AFP/Getty Images / December 22, 2011)
............

..........

Rob454
12-21-2011, 8:41 PM
Meh i would take off the pistol grip /stock combo and do the actual trigger conversion. Rifle looks funny with the pistol grip so far away from the mag. Just looks slapped together/somehow unfinished or the pistol grip /stock combo just looks like it was a afterthought IMO.

Cali-Shooter
12-21-2011, 8:43 PM
Good job on getting a Saiga. You will like it better if you do a proper pistol grip conversion though. I didn't think so before, but I ended up doing it and have been very happy with my setup. You really see the improvement in balance after its done. Good thing is you can make it a future project. the youtube videos are all you need.

Here's my two Saiga rifles:

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3682/saigas.jpg

Beautiful Saiga .308, and that converted Saiga 762 is a looker as well.

IrishPirate
12-21-2011, 9:02 PM
Wow, thx for the feedback everyone- Now to address some comments:
The reason I have the 'cheap' stuff is that I am a married college student who loves to shoot, what I have is what I was able to get for free or cheap from local ads and shows... not a lot of room for spending in my accessory budget and unlike some other people I am content to get the results I want regardless of country of origin... The reason it is unconverted is because I do like the longer LOP and have no problem with the rube goldberg trigger, also again no $$$ for the upgrade. As far as optics/irons i go back and forth constantly, I dont feel the need to keep my stuff in one configuration forever, so the quad rail lets me change flashlights/lasers/grips at will. It also weighs almost exactly the same as the stock foregrip so no prob there. BTW thanks to those of you who understand 'to each his own' and dont expect us all to throw 1000 bucks on a 300 dollar rifle. (5-7)

"Don't let the bastards grind you down".....do what you want. These are the same guys who would never touch a Hi-Point because for some reason it's beneath them. Personally, i have a hard time not laughing when people refer to Saiga's as AK's...that's just me. It's your rifle, it's your money, DO WHAT MAKES YOU HAPPY!! From one married college student to another, your build was fine. Way too tacticool for my taste, but if you're into something, go for it. I get all warm and fuzzy inside when people laugh at my Hi-Point at the range, then spend 20 minutes trying to fix their Kimber while I'm sending round after round down range with no problems. :D

A little update... on the friendly (and some unfriendly) advice of a few senior members I tried some new setups today: call me crazy but Im one of those guys who doesn't believe in the perfect setup, and whose gun projects are NEVER done. I decided to try getting rid of the quad rail, attaching a rail to the stock forearm, went to iron sights and took to the local range. MUCH better cheek weld but usable distance for these eyeballs is < 100 yds. only. Weight is about the same but ergos seem better IMO. Any other suggestions (besides the conversion) are welcome... I'm always looking for ideas. Hey NRAkid88- check out what I whipped up on your forearm suggestion...

Also mini range report on the GSG 522 SD: got that sightmark as an early xmas gift, dialed in @ 100 yds. hitting a rubber top hat EVERY time w/ federal bulk ammo- MY NEW FAVORITE RIFLE! Empties the clip inside a nickel sized hole @ 25 ft!

Honestly, i liked the first one better.....again, not a big tacticool guy (don't hate it either though) but the first one just looked cooler to me

I want one of those GSG .22's SOOOOOO bad!!! they look like way too much fun!!!!!

where do you go shooting at? I head up to Chico every once in a while, maybe we can get together and wiferifleswap :D

AKSOG
12-21-2011, 10:55 PM
+1 on the trigger upgrade. It makes a world of a difference.

NorCArl
12-22-2011, 8:01 AM
I want one of those GSG .22's SOOOOOO bad!!! they look like way too much fun!!!!! where do you go shooting at? I head up to Chico every once in a while, maybe we can get together and wiferifleswap :D

The GSG is honestly one of the most fun guns I have ever used. The version I bought was about 300 bucks and weighs 5.5 lbs. Not a Tackdriver, per se, but it gets em in there, and talk about fast- with my reflex sight and the light weight its super easy to acquire targets. My new thing is shooting golf balls at 50 yds! BTW being in Chico its either squirrel hunting in my orchard, or the Cohasset Dump or the Rabe Road range in Oroville. Send me a PM when your coming up, I got lots of wives, er guns to swap.

GSG 522 SD, RIA 1911 .45, Beretta PX4 .40, Mossberg 4x4 7mag, Hi point .380, Remington 870, Saiga 7.62x39, Ruger P89DC, Ruger 10/22, Ruger MKIII, Yugo SKS.

nrakid88
01-01-2012, 5:42 PM
Not bad man, I am sure that is helping save a little weight, and get better balance. Plus those quad rails feel rough on my hands.

You know, if you do do the full conversion, you can get Nato length buttstocks that will compensate for your American sized limbs. Then you have a better trigger, better balanced gun, and it will be a little more reliable.

Besides for that, My only concern with this rifle is the lack of a Bayonet lug. Call me CRAZY, because I am, but I have bayonet lugs even on my .22 lr tactical trainer. I just like that my guns are still deadly even when I am out of lead. You may need to buy a gas block with the bayo lugs, in a 47 or 74 style, and go to a build party to swap it out. And if you are going to do that, might as well change the gas tube to a standard one with a shield, and get a muzzle device (again, 47 or 74 based on your preference, but if you go with the 74 zig zag break, you need the front sight to have a bayonet lug so the bayonet can be mounted.)

Then, if you are going to do all of that work, you might as well by a bullet guide and rivet, and rivet that sucker in so you can use REAL AK mags, blocked off to ten rounds, or 30 to 75 in a legal area.

I know, it probably all sounds like a lot of time, work, and money... but if your project is never truly done (as most of my guns aren't) those are all worthy mods to turn your firearm into about all it can be. Plus, you could get it all done at a build party, in one day, if you have knowedgable hosts.

Good luck man, just try not to spend too much, don't want to end up with an ex-wife, expensive rifle, and be in college... could hurt your academics haha.

smittty
01-01-2012, 6:38 PM
Shoot it and see how it feels. That's how you learn! With all the tinkering you are doing it seems that you would really enjoy building an AR.

Is it just me or is the barrel on your GSG bent?




http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i426/robalark/PC200319.jpg

Saiga 7.62x39, GSG 522 SD, Beretta PX4 .40, Rock Island 1911 .45

Knife Edge
01-01-2012, 6:49 PM
So I think I finished my Saiga build for a while... I've been dancing around with the compliance issues lately and I think I finally covered all the bases- Tell me how you think I did:
First the U.S. made parts issue-
Tapco T6 Collapsible Stock Set- (1 US part )
Tapco 10/20 mag - (3 US Parts)
AND Just in case I also have a Tapco U.S. gas piston that could be installed fairly easily.
As far as the evil features I have a forward folding UTG grip as well as the rear Tapco grip, but I also have the bullet button installed on there, and my import parts total is 10,so I think I'm good.
Other Parts include the UTG quad rail, a 3x9 cqb scope, a little bipod that I never use, and a bullet guide from Dinzag.

http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i426/robalark/PC200317.jpg

And here she is with some of my other "tacticool" weapons:

http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i426/robalark/PC200319.jpg

Saiga 7.62x39, GSG 522 SD, Beretta PX4 .40, Rock Island 1911 .45

Sometimes a chin weld will do!

dc2integra
01-01-2012, 8:11 PM
Nice saiga.

NorCArl
01-01-2012, 8:17 PM
Since this post I have started the conversion process on the Saiga. Got all the furniture relocated, receiver drilled and painted, plus the barrel shroud removed (threaded barrel!) and bullet guide installed, now just waiting on the trigger group and muzzle brake. Will post pics and range report later this week-
Smitty- I don't really see what you're seeing about a bent barrel, but the barrel is actually contained within that monster of a shroud or "suppressor" hanging off the front of the thing. Its not bent though anyway, took it out today and gave my wife a lesson in standing 50 yd golf ball shooting!

NorCArl
01-01-2012, 8:30 PM
Just another thought- I also realized today that I impulse bought an "AK recoil buffer" online after enjoying a little too much champagne at the New Years Festivities late last night. I researched it this morning and it seems like many people think that this particular part is a waste of money. I tried to cancel the order but it was too late. Im sure this subject has been tackled in other threads but should I even bother with this or will it be more trouble than it's worth? It was only 8 bucks so if its not going to hurt anything Ill give it a shot...

Quickdraw Mcgraw
01-02-2012, 2:47 PM
NorCARL hope ya got a tapco trigger group...my g2 is awsome. Next time ya get a couple extra bucks check out the ultimak rail/Bushnell TRS25 combo...SUPER SWEET AN LIGHTWEIGHT! Let us know how the build goes!

NorCArl
01-02-2012, 7:43 PM
Actually I'm rockin a UTG (ugh I know) quad rail out front with a magpul AFG below and a cheapo Tasco red dot on top- also got a 3x9 CQB mounted on a scope rail side mount that I throw on occasionally for fancy parties and bar mitvahs;)

NorCArl
01-02-2012, 7:44 PM
Scratch that, its sightmark

hefedehefe
01-04-2012, 10:05 AM
Good job on getting a Saiga. You will like it better if you do a proper pistol grip conversion though. I didn't think so before, but I ended up doing it and have been very happy with my setup. You really see the improvement in balance after its done. Good thing is you can make it a future project. the youtube videos are all you need.

Here's my two Saiga rifles:

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3682/saigas.jpg

What is that around the pistol grip? Will it fit around a hogue grip? Where can I get one?

hefedehefe
01-04-2012, 10:06 AM
Oh and check this out. I would love to see what they look like on

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...ducts_id/49740

NorCArl
01-04-2012, 11:15 AM
Oh and check this out. I would love to see what they look like on

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...ducts_id/49740

dead link

hefedehefe
01-04-2012, 11:51 AM
dead link

Here is one

http://www.jetguns.com/caa-cakc-ak47-col-stock-stmp-rec-black-p-19654.html

NorCArl
01-04-2012, 8:01 PM
It seems to me like this particular stock would be better suited to a mp5/clone or some other compact submachine gun type future weapon... maybe a raygun? Seriously though, I like how the cheek riser kinda mimics the angle of the ak receiver, but in general too many curves for such an industrial looking rifle IMHO.

StupidMoFo
01-05-2012, 8:07 AM
What is that around the pistol grip? Will it fit around a hogue grip? Where can I get one?

It's a solar tactical gripwrap I believe and here's the link to a hogue grip model. http://solartactical.com/AK47-HOGUE-KYDEX-SLIP-ON-GRIP-647.htm

defcon
01-05-2012, 8:30 AM
i liked the tacticool AK man! great job.

i have a converted tacticool Saiga 12 myself.
i just find the traditional AK boring to look at.

NorCArl
01-05-2012, 1:05 PM
i liked the tacticool AK man! great job.

i have a converted tacticool Saiga 12 myself.
i just find the traditional AK boring to look at.

Me too, every malnourished Jihadist with a death wish and his mother has a mil-spec wood furniture ak. When it comes to cars I also like rat rods more than OEM restorations, so there:p