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Kauf
12-20-2011, 4:02 PM
Question from my dad that some of you could answer. If he becomes an FFDO (Federal Flight Deck Officer) does that count as a California CCW as well, like the state police recieve in California?

Dr Rockso
12-20-2011, 4:15 PM
I'm fairly sure that FFDOs are not covered under LEOSA since they don't have statutory powers of arrest.

edlegault
12-20-2011, 4:33 PM
I don't think so. I think their firearms must be unloaded and loaded at the flight deck (stupid). Seems like there was a pilot arrested for having a loaded firearm off the flight deck or there was a discharge on the flight deck or something and this subject came up before.

Ubermcoupe
12-20-2011, 4:34 PM
Dont think so:


FFDOs are considered Federal law enforcement officers only for the limited purposes of carrying firearms and using force, including lethal force, to defend the flight deck of an aircraft from air piracy or criminal violence.
FFDOs are not granted or authorized to exercise other law enforcement powers such as the power to make arrests, or seek or execute warrants for arrest, or seizure of evidence, or to otherwise act as Federal law enforcement outside the jurisdiction of aircraft flight decks.
FFDOs are issued credentials and badges to appropriately identify themselves to law enforcement and security personnel, as required in the furtherance of their mission.
FFDOs are issued firearms and other necessary equipment by the Federal Air Marshal Service.
FFDOs are responsible for the readiness and daily security of their firearms, credentials and equipment.
FFDOs are authorized to transport secured firearms in any state for a flight on which they are flying to or from as approved by the Federal Air Marshal Service as necessary for their participation and activities in the program.

http://www.tsa.gov/lawenforcement/programs/ffdo_information.shtm

I am guessing only allowed to carry to/while/from flying ~ similar to an armed guard and carrying. I guess they are only allowed to be “armed” in the cockpit (can someone reference this please?)

Might count for std cap mags and glock blue label purchases though. :thumbsup:

Agent Orange
12-20-2011, 4:38 PM
No.

stix213
12-20-2011, 4:38 PM
I don't think so. I think their firearms must be unloaded and loaded at the flight deck (stupid). Seems like there was a pilot arrested for having a loaded firearm off the flight deck or there was a discharge on the flight deck or something and this subject came up before.

Seems kinda not well thought out to have someone have to load/unload their firearm depending on where they are standing at the moment.

BigDogatPlay
12-20-2011, 4:42 PM
Might count for std cap mags and glock blue label purchases though. :thumbsup:

From the above...

FFDOs are issued firearms and other necessary equipment by the Federal Air Marshal Service.

Unless a friendly LGS was cutting a them a fatty discount based on their status, as they might with LEO or a bro-deal, I think the fact that FFDO are issued their gear pretty much obviates what you theorize.

Far as I know and have read, FFDO status gives no other special exemption. Particularly in California, as relates to purchasing off roster, purchasing large capacity mags or CCW.

dantodd
12-20-2011, 4:51 PM
Seems kinda not well thought out to have someone have to load/unload their firearm depending on where they are standing at the moment.

I believe there were some ND/ADs associated with that issue.

Agent Orange
12-20-2011, 4:51 PM
You wouldn't believe the stupidness. The padlocked holster is just the beginning.

Big O
12-20-2011, 5:01 PM
FFDOs are considered Federal law enforcement officers only for the limited purposes of carrying firearms and using force, including lethal force, to defend the flight deck of an aircraft from air piracy or criminal violence.
FFDOs are not granted or authorized to exercise other law enforcement powers such as the power to make arrests, or seek or execute warrants for arrest, or seizure of evidence, or to otherwise act as Federal law enforcement outside the jurisdiction of aircraft flight decks.
FFDOs are issued credentials and badges to appropriately identify themselves to law enforcement and security personnel, as required in the furtherance of their mission.
FFDOs are issued firearms and other necessary equipment by the Federal Air Marshal Service.
FFDOs are responsible for the readiness and daily security of their firearms, credentials and equipment.
FFDOs are authorized to transport secured firearms in any state for a flight on which they are flying to or from as approved by the Federal Air Marshal Service as necessary for their participation and activities in the program.
I don't think CCW is considered "secured firearm." I think secured means locked and unloaded. Which is why they load up once they're in the cockpit.

Ubermcoupe
12-20-2011, 5:25 PM
Unless a friendly LGS was cutting a them a fatty discount based on their status, as they might with LEO or a bro-deal, I think the fact that FFDO are issued their gear pretty much obviates what you theorize.


Maybe, I don’t know for sure. (which is why I said might)

I don't think CCW is considered "secured firearm." I think secured means locked and unloaded. Which is why they load up once they're in the cockpit.
ok, I agree with you.

I dont think FFDO = LTC. I was merely trying to provide a reference and indicate pertinent information from that reference. :shrug:

jgraham7897
12-20-2011, 6:42 PM
So let me get this right. They would rather have FFDO's shoot somebody than try to arrest somebody on a flight? If FFDO's were allowed to arrest on flights they would be covered under LEOSA.

strega7
12-20-2011, 7:00 PM
An FFDO is one of the pilots strapped into one of the fronts seats of an airliner. If someone breaches the flightdeck door, the FFDO is not going to try and arrest that person. That person is going to get shot dead. There is no arresting in the FFDO program.

jgraham7897
12-20-2011, 7:11 PM
Any member of the flight crew is eligible to apply for the FFDO program.

SA227driver
12-20-2011, 7:51 PM
Actually, getting your FFDO credentials is actually a great case for getting your LTC from your local CLEO. You are traveling with the weapon to and from your house to the airport to the aircraft and you are a deputized federal agent. A great "good cause" reason for needing a LTC. FFDO's bypass the security checkpoints and just show their badge and FFDO credentials at the exit to the TSA agent and never goes through security checkpoint.

On a side note, FFDO's are issued the H&K USP40's with frangible rounds. Great weapon.

Big O
12-20-2011, 8:43 PM
Any member of the flight crew is eligible to apply for the FFDO program.
FFDO = Federal Flight Deck Officer
To be eligible to volunteer for and participate in the Federal Flight Deck Officer program you must:


Have and maintain a current FAA Airman's certificate.
Have and maintain a current Class 1 or Class 2 medical certificates.
Be a U.S. citizen.
Be an eligible flight crew member flying for an eligible passenger or cargo air carrier:

For Passenger Flight Crew Members: You must currently be employed by a passenger air carrier or private charter company operated under 49 CFR part 1544 (i.e. passengers are screened by TSA).
For Cargo Flight Crew Members: You must currently be employed by a cargo air carrier operating aircraft with a gross takeoff weight in excess of 100,000 pounds (45,500 kilograms, or 100,309.8 lbs) and serve as a flight crew member for aircrafts of that weight.
I'm not sure they want flight attendants bumping their guns around on passengers as they squeeze through the aisles. Might be too easy to spot and take away.

Agent Orange
12-21-2011, 9:20 AM
Not to be picky but he was right. The cabin crew is not flight crew.