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Dragon
12-19-2011, 11:03 PM
Thinking of getting 1 . What do u think ? Any good ? worth the money?

Do they use the AR mags? Do they use the same mag release as the AR so the bullit button can be changed out when going to a free state to shoot?

Thank you.

Richard Erichsen
12-20-2011, 5:30 AM
Thinking of getting 1 . What do u think ? Any good ? worth the money?

Do they use the AR mags? Do they use the same mag release as the AR so the bullit button can be changed out when going to a free state to shoot?

Thank you.

You are going to get a lot of different opinions, but I really like them and encouraged a friend to buy one. It was not without problems. The OEM magazines caused failures to feed (follower height, feed lips) and the roughness and a sharp leading edge in the feed ramp area caused him some grief until we replaced all his OEM factory mags with Magpul and steel STANAG type M16 mags. Are they good, solid rifles - Yes. Worth the money - In line with AR15s with similar features. The not so good was the magazines as mentioned and the locking mechanism of the buttstock, which could be improved. From an AR15 perspective, they aren't quite as accurate (but close enough, shooting your rifle from a sandbag rest or bipod all day at the range gets dull, stand up and shoot the thing like a rifle instead of a target gun why don't you!), they are a bit heavy by AR15 standards, with a balance that is more noticeably muzzle heavy (helps with recoil on both counts, ignore the naysayers) reducing or eliminating the need for an obnoxious sounding muzzle brake for fast repeat shots that the neighbors in the next lane left and right of you will appreciate. The action is built a lot like an AK and takes a bit less time to fully clean, runs cooler than a DI style action if you like to put a lot of rounds downrange quickly.

It's not the same rifle as the Swiss military are issued (which use proprietary magazines, different stocks and sights), but it's fairly close and a whole lot cheaper.

R

Dragon
12-20-2011, 8:18 AM
Thank you .

Munny$hot
12-20-2011, 8:51 AM
I've held one and wasn't impressed with its build feel/quality. Maybe it's just me but it seems like sig isn't what they used to be. Although the 516 torture test I was quite impressive.
http://youtu.be/JFZ3yUMH5IA

EvoXRiley
12-20-2011, 10:23 AM
I have the 556 swat version, I love my gun, eveything stated above is true but I have had no issues with the magazines. This gun eats everything you can feed it and keeps going, I say go for it!

Mamluke
12-20-2011, 11:29 AM
You guys know who makes the Sig red dot scope?
Is it made in Germany, the US or China?

http://www.tactical-life.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/sig11.gif

Thanks

proclone1
12-20-2011, 12:02 PM
treat this as scuttlebutt, but I heard that the patrol version because it uses the short gas action, will theoretically not last as long, or might develop problems a lot sooner, than the regular full-length gas piston model. Even if that's true, treat that with a grain of salt, because it probably means the weapon will last only 40 years instead of 45 (wild numbers, but you get the idea).

Otherwise, I really like the Patrol.

MXRider
12-20-2011, 12:10 PM
You guys know who makes the Sig red dot scope?
Is it made in Germany, the US or China?

http://www.tactical-life.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/sig11.gif

Thanks

Chicom garbage.

Kodemonkey
12-20-2011, 12:21 PM
You guys know who makes the Sig red dot scope?
Is it made in Germany, the US or China?

http://www.tactical-life.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/sig11.gif

Thanks

My friend has one and it looks almost identical to my primary arms cheapie.

jchen76@gmail.com
12-20-2011, 1:12 PM
I have to patrol swat with quad rail. Get the newer model with the sig 550 style stock. The adjustable stock it comes with is junk. Replaced it soon after I bought the rifle. Other than that it anything I feed it. No issues with 10 rounder cproducts or 10/20 pmags.

Jyruiz
12-20-2011, 1:21 PM
My friend has one and it looks almost identical to my primary arms cheapie.

Guess we have chicom garbage. :D

Mamluke
12-20-2011, 4:52 PM
I've held one and wasn't impressed with its build feel/quality. Maybe it's just me but it seems like sig isn't what they used to be. Although the 516 torture test I was quite impressive.
http://youtu.be/JFZ3yUMH5IA

+1 ^^^^ this would be the SIG to get, 516 Patrol.
$1349 from Riflegear in Costa Mesa, Ca. Awesome price for a short stroke piston AR IMHO!

Click on image:

http://www.everything-ar15.com/assets/images/ar15/sig-516-patrol-02.jpg (http://youtu.be/JFZ3yUMH5IA?t=5m41s)


..............

EvoXRiley
12-20-2011, 4:57 PM
i have the 2011 Swat and it has the swiss style stock no play at all.

im doing a test on mien to see how well it holds up to all sorts of ammo, and shooting without cleaning.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=510206

Dragon
12-20-2011, 7:18 PM
You guys know who makes the Sig red dot scope?
Is it made in Germany, the US or China?

http://www.tactical-life.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/sig11.gif

Thanks

Bushnell makes a good one . looks just like it . I like mine very much . Nunt'n Fancy says its GTG for the value.

CRTguns
12-20-2011, 7:43 PM
I've held one and wasn't impressed with its build feel/quality. Maybe it's just me but it seems like sig isn't what they used to be. Although the 516 torture test I was quite impressive.
http://youtu.be/JFZ3yUMH5IA

Feel?

Build quality?

You were holding a sig rifle right? not an airsoft? The 556 is the most solid semi-auto I 've ever owned. And I've owned all of them that you can own. Take my word for it. You were holding a differnt gun, or were on strong meds at the time.:rolleyes:

Jyruiz
12-20-2011, 8:07 PM
That is awesome.

+1 ^^^^ this would be the SIG to get, 516 Patrol.
$1349 from Riflegear in Costa Mesa, Ca. Awesome price for a short stroke piston AR IMHO!

Click on image:

http://www.everything-ar15.com/assets/images/ar15/sig-516-patrol-02.jpg (http://youtu.be/JFZ3yUMH5IA?t=5m41s)


..............

Munny$hot
12-20-2011, 8:39 PM
Feel?

Build quality?

You were holding a sig rifle right? not an airsoft? The 556 is the most solid semi-auto I 've ever owned. And I've owned all of them that you can own. Take my word for it. You were holding a differnt gun, or were on strong meds at the time.:rolleyes:

It just didn't have the Sig quality/feel I'm use to. Just like how people like the Polymer sig pistols I'm sure it's a great shooter, but just not my cup of tea. On the other hand the build of a Sig 220 ST or a Glock 19 just feels better IMHO.

Noah3683
12-20-2011, 9:09 PM
It just didn't have the Sig quality/feel I'm use to. Just like how people like the Polymer sig pistols I'm sure it's a great shooter, but just not my cup of tea. On the other hand the build of a Sig 220 ST or a Glock 19 just feels better IMHO.

I don't have much first hand experience with sigs in general, but the 556 I handled felt like an Abrams tank. By far the most solid feeling black rifle I've held.

rdmax
12-20-2011, 11:23 PM
I have the Swat 556 and it feels solid. It is heavy compared to an AR. The gas system is very robust. The only thing cheap was the plastic block used on the swiss stock to index the telescoping stock. Sig replaced it with an alloy one so it is solid now. I have the Sig red dot and it works fine. The battery life is suppose to be much longer than the cheaper ones.

Blownmotor
12-20-2011, 11:31 PM
Are the barrels chrome line on those?

greyhd
12-20-2011, 11:32 PM
I've had a patrol for a few months now. Zero issues so far. Mine came with a fixed A2 style stock which I replaced with a Magpul collapsible. Feeds and fires anything I give it. Its on the heavier side but in a solid feeling way. I don't really like to compare it to an AR, just a fun rifle that's "different" from my buddies.

If you have the coin, why not?

tuna quesadilla
12-20-2011, 11:47 PM
Thinking of getting 1 . What do u think ? Any good ? worth the money?

Do they use the AR mags? Do they use the same mag release as the AR so the bullit button can be changed out when going to a free state to shoot?

Thank you.

What does the 556 do for you that an AR-15 doesn't?

m03
12-21-2011, 12:34 AM
I have to patrol swat with quad rail. Get the newer model with the sig 550 style stock. The adjustable stock it comes with is junk. Replaced it soon after I bought the rifle. Other than that it anything I feed it. No issues with 10 rounder cproducts or 10/20 pmags.

i have the 2011 Swat and it has the swiss style stock no play at all.


If the Swat uses the "Classic" model lower, then you can upgrade to an actual Swiss stock right now for $160. Have to call Sig directly in order to get it though, since it's not listed on their site.

MontClaire
12-21-2011, 1:10 AM
Me and a friend bought 2 of these. I ended up with regular swat and my friend got the shorter patrol swat. Both have an Elcan SpecterDR sights on it plus we bought buis made for sig556 front gas block. regular ones will not work because they're too high. Now this is my second sig556 and it's made much better than the previous version. A lot more solid...though at the same time I must say it's not an HK quality, so don't expect to be accurate. Specially if you run cheap ammo through it will not be as accurate as an AR. On the weight note....patrol is lighter but barely....the recoil is more stronger with the short gas piston. While the regular swat is a bit heavier..it's barely noticable. however, the target re-acquisition is faster because the recoil on regular swat is light and smooth. they both clean fast, and we opted for a curved slide handle because of the scope. Hope it helps.

GM4spd
12-21-2011, 5:09 AM
What does the 556 do for you that an AR-15 doesn't?

Runs on ANY ammo, ANY time,ANY conditions,uses AR mags,and already HAS an ambidextrous safety. Pete



http://www.fototime.com/EF030E6A56A289E/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/CE6B45996CABD19/standard.jpg

Richard Erichsen
12-21-2011, 5:49 AM
What does the 556 do for you that an AR-15 doesn't?

That's probably the wrong question. What does the AR15 do that a Sig 556 couldn't just as easily replace it. ;)

With so many AR15s around, there can be a strong desire to get something that's a bit outside the usual cookie cutter.

R

Richard Erichsen
12-21-2011, 6:19 AM
Are the barrels chrome line on those?

Actually, it's better - nitrocarburized (Melonite QPQ). The Sig 556 I was recommending to my friend was the rifle that got me into researching more about nitrocarburizing. I recall vividly folks poo-poo'd my Galil .308 back in the late 80s because it's barrel wasn't chrome lined, it too was nitrocarburized. The Internet didn't exist for the general public back then and reliable information on this process was hard to come by. Books I found at the library never really made the connection that it was suitable for use in firearms, only that it was often used as an alternative to chrome in certain applications. The sage "old guys" supposedly knew all and considered it a cheap alternative and that it was probably just cheaper than chrome lining for them to produce. I, being young and naive didn't know any better, of course, these were the same guys who referred to my Galil as a "commie-gun" despite the Galil being based on the Finnish Valmet and was built and imported from Israel. Flat out, they were wrong. The process was invented in Europe and took awhile to make it back to the US, where it was primarily used for applications other than firearms.

You get all the benefits of chrome lining, but both inside and outside the barrel. Corrosion resistance, thermal and wear resistance are as good or better than a well applied chrome lining, but this process is applied only to the base metal and is not a plating or coating that is applied on top of it. Because of this, nitrocarburized bores are of a much more consistent diameter throughout. A treated barrel can be quickly tested. If you take a file and it just slides across the surface leaving no visible damage, it's been nitrocarburized. A typical barrel is only 28-32 HRC, the file is 59-61 HRC, a chrome-moly (carbon) steel barrel treats to a surface hardness of 62 HRC while a stainless barrel can reach 72 HRC - as hard or harder than hard chrome plating. The only real downside to the process is that it does take longer to break in the barrel, in some cases longer than a chrome lined barrel. The area of interest in breaking in the barrel is not the lands or grooves, but the chamber throat area where a fine pattern of "teeth" remain from the throat reaming tool. The pattern this leaves cross-cuts the interface between throat/leade and groove/lands - it's rougher than it should be and using the rifle will burnish and polish it smoother.

Don't be afraid of a non-chrome lined barrel. Even a plain barrel with neither chrome nor case hardening treatments like nitrocarburizing will last many thousands of rounds 6000-7000 is realistic on an unlined barrel, 20K for a chrome lined barrel and perhaps the same or even a bit more for a nitrocarburized barrel (I've seen figures as high as 30K, but this is often caliber specific and is probably more reasonable for 30 cal). The point at which a barrel is replaced is when accuracy degrades unacceptably.

For 6000-7000 round endurance of a plain, unlined barrel, that's about $2500 of ammo on average with current pricing. For the nitrocarburized or chrome lined barrels, it's about $7500 worth of ammo. In 10 years, who knows what the going rate might be. Most shooters have more than one rifle, so you may find your actual round count is a lot lower than the 1500 rounds a year my two favorite rifles are averaging right now (some of my other rifles might only get a couple hundred rounds through them in a year). At 250 rounds a year it will be over 25 years before your barrel "might" be due for a replacement, even if it was a plain, unlined type. Sigs don't come plain and for all intents and purposes, the nitrocarburizing is equivalent to, or superior to the chrome lined varieties folks are more familiar with.

R

shy 7th
12-21-2011, 9:20 AM
Runs on ANY ammo, ANY time,ANY conditions,uses AR mags,and already HAS an ambidextrous safety. Pete



http://www.fototime.com/EF030E6A56A289E/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/CE6B45996CABD19/standard.jpg

...and requires zip ties to hold the rails together? ;)

Dragon
12-21-2011, 9:58 PM
What does the 556 do for you that an AR-15 doesn't?

I have enough ARs at the moment. I would like a change.

Richard Erichsen
12-22-2011, 7:30 AM
I have enough ARs at the moment. I would like a change.

That's usually how it goes. In my friends case, I "rescued him" from showing up at the range with the same basic rifle everyone else had. He is still learning the manual of arms for the Sig, but the range instructor taught him on the AR15 as well and he still prefers his Sig 556.

For all the QC problems and build quality/fit and finish details, low quality OEM add ons that have shown up at one time or another, it's still a great platform and with few exceptions a good rifle for the money. No one doubts the benefits of the AR15, but there is room for more than one type of 5.56x45 rifle.

R

emptybottle151
12-22-2011, 5:47 PM
http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n483/emptybottle151/DSCN1852.jpg

Little heavy and a little pricy, other than that its good to go.

Common
12-22-2011, 6:08 PM
here is a good review

http://www.gunblast.com/SIG-556.htm

fmunk
12-22-2011, 6:30 PM
Been there. Won't do it again. Quality control is all over the place. Canted rail. Canted front sight block. Uncommon iron sight height. If you are lucky, you get one that has no issues and takes any ammo. To me, a rifle in this price range should not have these traits come up in discussion. If you want a battle rifle that will eat any ammo, get a DI AR and have money left over for ammo. If it's a piston gun you want, the Ruger SR556E is much better for the money and a little cheaper. If it's the AK-like traits you want, just get an AK.

fmunk
12-22-2011, 6:32 PM
here is a good review

http://www.gunblast.com/SIG-556.htm

That guy likes everything he reviews. They are more like paid ads than reviews.

tuna quesadilla
12-22-2011, 7:11 PM
Runs on ANY ammo, ANY time,ANY conditions,uses AR mags,and already HAS an ambidextrous safety. Pete



http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/opensourcelinuxm/sig556copy.jpg

:rofl2:

But I digress. The Sig 556 is a neat rifle but I can't really see a compelling reason to get one other than "it's different." (hey, if that's your reason, then more power to you)

tuna quesadilla
12-22-2011, 7:12 PM
That guy likes everything he reviews. They are more like paid ads than reviews.

+1. The only thing Gunblast is good for is the plethora of pictures in each review.

m03
12-22-2011, 8:01 PM
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/opensourcelinuxm/sig556copy.jpg

:rofl2:


FWIW, I once had a Chinese AK that wouldn't feed non-FMJ rounds.

Noah3683
12-22-2011, 8:27 PM
Been there. Won't do it again. Quality control is all over the place. Canted rail. Canted front sight block. Uncommon iron sight height. If you are lucky, you get one that has no issues and takes any ammo. To me, a rifle in this price range should not have these traits come up in discussion. If you want a battle rifle that will eat any ammo, get a DI AR and have money left over for ammo. If it's a piston gun you want, the Ruger SR556E is much better for the money and a little cheaper. If it's the AK-like traits you want, just get an AK.That's funny. If an AR will shoot any ammo it's overgassed period. I have seen BCM, DD, Noveske, Colt, Spikes, and LMT all fail on wolf or tula which is virtually the same ammo.

tuna quesadilla
12-22-2011, 8:48 PM
FWIW, I once had a Chinese AK that wouldn't feed non-FMJ rounds.

So?

CRTguns
12-25-2011, 11:56 PM
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/opensourcelinuxm/sig556copy.jpg

:rofl2:

But I digress. The Sig 556 is a neat rifle but I can't really see a compelling reason to get one other than "it's different." (hey, if that's your reason, then more power to you)

all that post proves is that THAT guy's Sig does not like THAT type of ammo. My Sig 556 eats the stuff up like a starving hog.

fmunk
12-25-2011, 11:59 PM
Uh no, all that proves is inconsistency in the production of the Sig556 series. QC is all over the place with this thing, as well as the 556R (7.62x39) and Sig516. Sig USA still doesn't have a handle on making rifles yet. Hell, their pistols aren't doing much better.

m03
12-26-2011, 12:53 AM
So?

Seriously?

The point being, individual rifles can have problems that are not indicative of the design as a whole. Just because I have an AK that can't feed certain types of ammo does not mean that all AKs are ammo-sensitive. In the same way, just because he has a Sig556 that doesn't like Wolf ammo, that doesn't mean that all Sig556 rifles have issues with Wolf ammo (the vast majority do not from what I understand).

Clear enough?

fmunk
12-26-2011, 12:55 AM
And that particular one isn't the only one that has issues. There have been many others if you look at the sig and 556 forums. Point is Sig's QC is all over the place.

Clear enough?

When you spend $1k+ on anything, don't you want it to be 100% right out of the box? or do you want something you have to send back once, twice, maybe thrice? Or do you just give it a free pass simply because it is a recognizable brand?

Conversely, just because some are 100%, doesn't mean all 556s are 100%.

m03
12-26-2011, 12:58 AM
And that particular one isn't the only one that has issues. There have been many others if you look at the sig and 556 forums. Point is Sig's QC is all over the place.

Clear enough?

I wasn't replying to your post, or arguing against your points...look carefully at who I quoted... :facepalm:


When you spend $1k+ on anything, don't you want it to be 100% right out of the box? or do you want something you have to send back once, twice, maybe thrice? Or do you just give it a free pass simply because it is a recognizable brand?

Personally, no. I bought my 551A1 knowing full well that there was the potential for QC issues (there weren't any)...my plan was for a project gun so I really didn't care. I just needed the upper to mate with a stamped Swiss 551 lower which I'm going to be picking up in the next few months. The fact that it has no issues is a bonus. For what it's worth, I have two friend who both have 556 Classics, and both were perfect right out of the box.

I have heard that the QC has improved considerably in the last year, but there are obviously still issues being found out there.

Conversely, just because some are 100%, doesn't mean all 556s are 100%.

Isn't that pretty much the exact same point that I was making in my previous post?

tuna quesadilla
12-26-2011, 1:49 PM
Seriously?

The point being, individual rifles can have problems that are not indicative of the design as a whole. Just because I have an AK that can't feed certain types of ammo does not mean that all AKs are ammo-sensitive. In the same way, just because he has a Sig556 that doesn't like Wolf ammo, that doesn't mean that all Sig556 rifles have issues with Wolf ammo (the vast majority do not from what I understand).

Clear enough?

all that post proves is that THAT guy's Sig does not like THAT type of ammo. My Sig 556 eats the stuff up like a starving hog.



You guys must have missed what GM4spd actually said.

He said that the Sig 556 runs on ALL AMMO, ANY TIME, PERIOD.

I know that there some guns have issues with certain types of ammo. That's why I said "SO?" to you. You're taking me for a moron. :facepalm: The reason I replied the way I did to GM4spd is because, whether he meant it or not, he said that the Sig 556 platform is literally impossible to malfunction. Those are the words that he put into print. I was merely pointing out the common fact that any platform can fail.

And yes, fmunk is correct, the 556 (just like ALL other Sig products nowadays...) is notorious for having QC issues... For that reason alone I'd never put my money down for one.

GM4spd
12-26-2011, 3:09 PM
You guys must have missed what GM4spd actually said.

He said that the Sig 556 runs on ALL AMMO, ANY TIME, PERIOD.

I know that there some guns have issues with certain types of ammo. That's why I said "SO?" to you. You're taking me for a moron. :facepalm: The reason I replied the way I did to GM4spd is because, whether he meant it or not, he said that the Sig 556 platform is literally impossible to malfunction.

I think I said ANY ammo,ANY time,:D but I NEVER said it was impossible to
malfunction---:p I was comparing it to the AR 15 platform(although I did not spell it out) and we KNOW
that's one platform that NEVER fails:rolleyes: I have read about QC issues
with some 556 rifles and SIG problems in general but like one astute poster
already pointed it,the rifle is a good copy of the Swiss rifle and is about
20% of the cost. Also,as I have stated in prior posts I still use AR15/M16 mags
that are about 40 years old and they have not failed to work in my
rifle.If people don't want to buy one for whatever reason---so what?
Who cares? Let them buy what they want---it's still a free
country(I think)

Pete
http://www.fototime.com/EE679A32DF50D56/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/11DD4203AE94A17/standard.jpg

tuna quesadilla
12-26-2011, 3:23 PM
I think I said ANY ammo,ANY time,:D but I NEVER said it was impossible to
malfunction---:p I was comparing it to the AR 15 platform(although I did not spell it out) and we KNOW
that's one platform that NEVER fails:rolleyes: I have read about QC issues
with some 556 rifles and SIG problems in general but like one astute poster
already pointed it,the rifle is a good copy of the Swiss rifle and is about
20% of the cost. Also,as I have stated in prior posts I still use AR15/M16 mags
that are about 40 years old and they have not failed to work in my
rifle.If people don't want to buy one for whatever reason---so what?
Who cares let:rolleyes: them buy what they want---it's still a free
country(I think)

Pete

http://www.fototime.com/B07331BBF16FEC3/standard.jpg

So "ANY ammo, ANY time" only really means "ANY ammo, ANY time" when it's convenient for you? Got it.

Nice rifle. :D

pyro3k2
12-26-2011, 3:53 PM
why is there so many haters on this rifle? it's a great rifle, not a good one but a great one. The rifle has built a reputation that reflects just that. The AR community needs to put the cup of koolaid down and chill the **** out.

Kodemonkey
12-26-2011, 5:20 PM
Guess we have chicom garbage. :D

Seems to work okay for me. But my needs are different from an infantryman in the sandbox. I'm not trusting my life on it. But works fine for me ripping holes in paper.

EvoXRiley
12-26-2011, 7:34 PM
funny thing is the majority of people doubting the rifle havent owned one. just held it at the store.

i own a 2011 one, and my gun works perfect, im just over 1k rounds now of steel and brass, ill mix and match all the time brass and steel IN THE SAME MAG! ZOMG! my gun eats it all day long.


best thing i can advise is to go out and shoot one.

Shawn L
12-26-2011, 7:37 PM
I just pick up my Sig556 patrol swat eariler today and I'm very happy with it so far. I don't care for the sights so I'll need to change them out, but other than that it's a very nice rifle.

RT13
12-26-2011, 11:33 PM
Get one, just make sure it's the latest version with the Swiss stock. I was one of the Sig 556's biggest critic and would never buyone until they correct the problems. And Sig finally has and is why I finally bought one and love it. The stock is better and the bcg problem has been fixed. And the 556 is more of an AK variant not an AR. I too own AR's and wanted something that looked and felt different from an AR. Why get a piston AR that looks like an AR when you can get something different. The Sig 556 is gtg!

ChaneRZ
12-27-2011, 12:27 AM
Sig 556 is really nice. If I had one, I would feed it steel cased compare to brass cased.

thetaxman
12-27-2011, 5:00 AM
Had one for years. At 20,000+ rounds and it's worked just fine. As others have said - a little heavy; eats most ammo; did have some early QC issues.

May be I got a good 'un, but it is accurate, reliable and I've only had to clean it twice. Never even removed the piston system. Try one first and if you get one, replace the charging handle, take down pins, stock and pistol grip.

zombiescanlearn
12-27-2011, 12:19 PM
I love my Sig 556 Swat. Never had a single problem with it. In fact, I have never had a single problem with any Sig rifle or pistol that I have owned (P220, P226 and P239). I have put over thousands of rounds in each of them and not a single hicup -- don't buy cheap Russian ammo, I think I read somewhere that using the Russian stuff will void your warranty. Don't know how Sigs used to be, but I have no problem with the way they are now. At around $1,100-$1,300 I think that's a pretty good deal for a quality AR.