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View Full Version : Covered6 California Rifle Tactical Reload


BBB114
12-19-2011, 1:45 PM
This is what we came up with for our students who are using Bullet Button rifles. Its just another option. We have trained with it and taught classes with it and it works. Check out www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXu051cheZU

Boyan

21SF
12-19-2011, 1:48 PM
Another one huh....

starsnuffer
12-19-2011, 1:58 PM
Good solution, not sure how feasible it is with optics though, could you demonstrate with an eotech or a scope on it?

-W

BBB114
12-19-2011, 7:25 PM
Thanks for the feedback. I did try it with an ACOG on a A2 upper with carryhandle and the only thing you need to do is cant the rifle more to the support side. I'll try to do a video with it as soon as I get some free time.

Also a friend said he could not use his primary index finger to put pressure on the mag because his finger was too short. No problem, just use the middle finger or push against the corner of the mag. Slight pressure is all you need.

I hope this helps all of us in the industry / hobby.

Boyan

Fate
12-20-2011, 8:15 AM
Ok, gonna bust your chops a bit re: "Demonstrate the speed reload in real time"...

Train like you fight. Why would you ever need to go from patrol ready to flipping the safety on, dropping mag, reloading mag and then back on target without doing some other very important steps. Namely, cycling in a live round and removing the safety. If you're doing a speed reload from a patrol ready you are most likely empty. You show an incomplete drill. Granted you were just showing how you use the UBBT, but you really should show ALL the steps ;)

I'm not a huge fan of using a BB/10 round rifle in a tactical situation. Beyond the mag limitations, trying to clear jams/doublefeeds with such a setup will get you killed. But to each their own.

Munny$hot
12-20-2011, 8:33 AM
Bad thing is by looking down you loose contact sight of your target

FourLoko
12-20-2011, 8:39 AM
Bad thing is by looking down you loose contact sight of your target

Yep, same problem with the technique from the other thread.

Takes too much time to look for that stupid hole. Oh well, they're trying.

Thordo
12-20-2011, 8:53 AM
This is what we came up with for our students who are using Bullet Button rifles. Its just another option. We have trained with it and taught classes with it and it works. Check out www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXu051cheZU

Boyan

AWESOME VIDEO!! The more we try, the more we learn!!

I've been in touch with Robert. You're video is posted on our site and you're in our contest. Good luck to you and we're glad you like our stuff!!

Happy Holidays!!

Thordo

HK Dave
12-20-2011, 8:56 AM
This is just sad. :(

TMC
12-20-2011, 9:28 AM
Bad thing is by looking down you loose contact sight of your target

What's your solution and how long does it take?

BBB114
12-20-2011, 9:46 AM
There are two types of speed reloads. One is an "in battery" speed reload which does not require you to chamber a round, since there is already one in the chamber.

The other is an "out of battery" speed reload that requires you to drop the bolt, feeding a live round in an empty chamber.

The demonstration was an in battery speed reload.

With what I have found while using a bullet button, it does take a fraction of a second to glance down to disengage the mag release. Not ideal, but it works.

Again, this was just a demonstration of technique and the options we came up with available for your tool box.

Boyan

vta
12-20-2011, 9:48 AM
the "primary armpit". LOL!!!

HK Dave
12-20-2011, 9:52 AM
There are two types of speed reloads. One is an "in battery" speed reload which does not require you to chamber a round, since there is already one in the chamber.

The other is an "out of battery" speed reload that requires you to drop the bolt, feeding a live round in an empty chamber.

The demonstration was an in battery speed reload.

With what I have found while using a bullet button, it does take a fraction of a second to glance down to disengage the mag release. Not ideal, but it works.

Again, this was just a demonstration of technique and the options we came up with available for your tool box.

Boyan

It cracks me up that people think you can do this without looking at the bullet button.

civilsnake
12-20-2011, 9:56 AM
What's your solution and how long does it take?

Featureless. No time.

0331Marine
12-20-2011, 10:38 AM
What's your solution and how long does it take?

Get the h*ll out of CA and it depends on what part of CA you leave in. I'll let you know how long it takes when I leave in 4 months......:43:

TMC
12-20-2011, 10:43 AM
Nice....

Didn't your mother ever tell you, "if you can't say something nice don't say anything at all"

You know, he could also break the law, buy a different gun, grow a 3rd arm, have someone reload for him while he stays on target, never get into a gun fight or try to defend yourself. Lots of better ideas out there huh?


Featureless. No time.

Get the h*ll out of CA and it depends on what part of CA you leave in. I'll let you know how long it takes when I leave in 4 months......:43:

Standard
12-20-2011, 10:44 AM
I know people don't like using their right hand to reload, but I found it much easier with the UBBT. Place mags on right side of body, remove right hand from weapon (maintaining grip with left hand), grab magazine with right hand, depress mag release with UBBT, insert mag, return firing hand to pistol grip. It's much better than having to move your mag above/below the weapon.

SuperSet
12-20-2011, 11:45 AM
Yes! This is how I did it as well. Load with your strong hand, bullets up in carrier. The downside is that you have to take your hand off fire control.

civilsnake
12-20-2011, 12:37 PM
Nice....

Didn't your mother ever tell you, "if you can't say something nice don't say anything at all"

You know, he could also break the law, buy a different gun, grow a 3rd arm, have someone reload for him while he stays on target, never get into a gun fight or try to defend yourself. Lots of better ideas out there huh?

What's not nice about my post?

If you're worried about how long it takes to use a mag-locked rifle, stop using a mag lock. It costs $30 to go featureless.

Standard
12-20-2011, 1:06 PM
Yes! This is how I did it as well. Load with your strong hand, bullets up in carrier. The downside is that you have to take your hand off fire control.

I think that downside is overrated, especially compared to what was shown in this video. This whole weapon was brought down, then the weak hand was used from the opposite side to activate the mag release.
Losing a grip on the pistol grip isn't a big deal IMO, because you don't fire until both hands are back on the weapon regardless of which hand you load with.
For that matter, a weak hand grip might be even better because most rifles are nose heavy, and that hand can stabilize it better.

a1fabweld
12-20-2011, 2:14 PM
The more I hear about this train how you fight nonsense with a mag lock, the more it makes me want to throw away my black rifles & knock the dust off my Mini-14 & M1A.

Nismo
12-20-2011, 2:27 PM
I do not train or plan on using a BB AR for SHTF but
I still think that the UBBT would be best if mounted in the rear pointed down at a 45 degree angle. Engage from under rather than over the forend.

Cradle the delta ring on top of your wrist and pivot your wrist inward so the UBBT engages into the BB.

Just makes sense as it steadies the gun and you get used to the feel and develop index points for more consistancy.

Just seems logical.

Standard
12-20-2011, 2:46 PM
The more I hear about this train how you fight nonsense with a mag lock, the more it makes me want to throw away my black rifles & knock the dust off my Mini-14 & M1A.

BUT YOU NEVER KNOW WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO GET INTO A GUNFIGHT AND NEED A TAC RELOAD BRO.

dieselpower
12-20-2011, 3:08 PM
whats interesting to me is everyone is still stuck in the box. No one has thought outside of it.

Q- Why are you using your left hand to load the magazine?
A- Because you need to have your primary hand on the rifle incase you need to stop the reload and engage a threat.

Q2- But you are so far out of that zone when using a BB its not going to matter. Why not CARRY YOUR MAGAZINE ON THE RIGHT SIDE? Use you primary hand to both drop the old magazine and insert the fresh one? For a tac-reload just grip the magazine well to support the rifle and stop the near empty magazine from falling to the ground. If you are good you can hold the rifle in your armpit and swap magazines very fast.
A2- because thats not what all the guys are doing. You must use your left hand to reload.

How about some of you gofast guys try that and tell me how it works. I already know what I did.

Once you lost the ability to control the weapon with a single hand, there is no reason to dwell on that training... its over ...its done. You are now standing on your head, jumping up and down barking like a dog, just so you can keep a hand on a pistol grip? Think about it.

Standard
12-20-2011, 3:10 PM
whats interesting to me is everyone is still stuck in the box. No one has thought outside of it.

Q- Why are you using your left hand to load the magazine?
A- Because you need to have your primary hand on the rifle incase you need to stop the reload and engage a threat.

Q2- But you are so far out of that zone when using a BB its not going to matter. Why not CARRY YOUR MAGAZINE ON THE RIGHT SIDE? Use you primary hand to both drop the old magazine and insert the fresh one? For a tac-reload just grip the magazine well to support the rifle and stop the near empty magazine from falling to the ground. If you are good you can hold the rifle in your armpit and swap magazines very fast.
A2- because thats not what all the guys are doing. You must use your left hand to reload.

How about some of you gofast guys try that and tell me how it works. I already know what I did.

Once you lost the ability to control the weapon with a single hand, there is no reason to dwell on that training... its over ...its done. You are now standing on your head, jumping up and down barking like a dog, just so you can keep a hand on a pistol grip? Think about it.

This is basically what I said a few posts up. Mags on the right, reload with right hand. Much faster.

dieselpower
12-20-2011, 3:24 PM
This is basically what I said a few posts up. Mags on the right, reload with right hand. Much faster.

I just watched the video. I didnt read the posts. I think there are many many many more than you and I who thought this one through. Its fairly clear from a speed and "tactical" stand point you must reload with your right hand with a BB. Clearing jams and locking the bolt back require a BAD of some kind with a BB.


edit...yup post # 20... BULLSEYE my friend.

a1fabweld
12-20-2011, 3:28 PM
BUT YOU NEVER KNOW WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO GET INTO A GUNFIGHT AND NEED A TAC RELOAD BRO.

Heaven forbid I ever get into a gunfight (the right thing to do is dial 911 & wait patiently for help to arrive :D), I can assure you the weapon I grab is not going to be a neutered mag locked black rifle.

starsnuffer
12-20-2011, 4:01 PM
whats interesting to me is everyone is still stuck in the box. No one has thought outside of it.

Q- Why are you using your left hand to load the magazine?
A- Because you need to have your primary hand on the rifle incase you need to stop the reload and engage a threat.

Q2- But you are so far out of that zone when using a BB its not going to matter. Why not CARRY YOUR MAGAZINE ON THE RIGHT SIDE? Use you primary hand to both drop the old magazine and insert the fresh one? For a tac-reload just grip the magazine well to support the rifle and stop the near empty magazine from falling to the ground. If you are good you can hold the rifle in your armpit and swap magazines very fast.
A2- because thats not what all the guys are doing. You must use your left hand to reload.

How about some of you gofast guys try that and tell me how it works. I already know what I did.

Once you lost the ability to control the weapon with a single hand, there is no reason to dwell on that training... its over ...its done. You are now standing on your head, jumping up and down barking like a dog, just so you can keep a hand on a pistol grip? Think about it.

It works great. Problem is that when you transition to a normal AR out of state, it's a steeper learning curve to "get back in the groove", not to mention having to reconfigure your gear and such.

It's not a bad idea, but it's not the holy grail you seem to make it out to be either.

-W

dieselpower
12-20-2011, 4:13 PM
It works great. Problem is that when you transition to a normal AR out of state, it's a steeper learning curve to "get back in the groove", not to mention having to reconfigure your gear and such.

It's not a bad idea, but it's not the holy grail you seem to make it out to be either.

-W

you are mucking up your training either way. Whats worse;
1) fumbling around trying to install a magazine when you are in a FIGHT FOR YOUR LIFE

or

2) Unlearning a muscle memory training.

This is where I get on my high horse again. I am not directing this at you. This train as you fight montra and this training BS on Carbine Courses has to stop. Playing Army, Playing SEAL Team 69 on a range isnt selfdefense, its not home defense and its not going to help you one freaking bit in a real life or death situation that you can reasonably assume you will be in. Its play time. You want to speed up your play time and gofast, be cool, then do that. Stop with the traditional training BS because a BB equipped Rifle isnt traditional. Invent a new high speed low drag doorkickers movements designed around the BB when you want to play Army. You will actually get to a point in your training where if that sucky day ever does come where you are TAKING HUMAN LIFE with your rifle, at least you will be using efficient movements based on what is needed.

I can 100% guarantee you are not going to be wearing your plate carrier and magazines when that god awful day comes.

If I am wrong and that day does come and you are wearing your plate carrier with taco magazine pouches, I can bet you are not running a BB and 10 rd magazines either.....

Standard
12-20-2011, 4:43 PM
I just watched the video. I didnt read the posts. I think there are many many many more than you and I who thought this one through. Its fairly clear from a speed and "tactical" stand point you must reload with your right hand with a BB. Clearing jams and locking the bolt back require a BAD of some kind with a BB.


edit...yup post # 20... BULLSEYE my friend.

you are mucking up your training either way. Whats worse;
1) fumbling around trying to install a magazine when you are in a FIGHT FOR YOUR LIFE

or

2) Unlearning a muscle memory training.

This is where I get on my high horse again. I am not directing this at you. This train as you fight montra and this training BS on Carbine Courses has to stop. Playing Army, Playing SEAL Team 69 on a range isnt selfdefense, its not home defense and its not going to help you one freaking bit in a real life or death situation that you can reasonably assume you will be in. Its play time. You want to speed up your play time and gofast, be cool, then do that. Stop with the traditional training BS because a BB equipped Rifle isnt traditional. Invent a new high speed low drag doorkickers movements designed around the BB when you want to play Army. You will actually get to a point in your training where if that sucky day ever does come where you are TAKING HUMAN LIFE with your rifle, at least you will be using efficient movements based on what is needed.

I can 100% guarantee you are not going to be wearing your plate carrier and magazines when that god awful day comes.

If I am wrong and that day does come and you are wearing your plate carrier with taco magazine pouches, I can bet you are not running a BB and 10 rd magazines either.....

We are of one mind sir.