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C3ncal559
12-17-2011, 11:19 PM
Thanks for helping,
My gf n I went to the range last weekend and shot my ar. Now she loves to shoot and for some odd reason she wants and ak, so I seen saiga getting convert to an ak.
So I done some research and found a place online a .223 saiga for $299 , I want to keep the .223 caliber because my ar and it would be perfect for her.well back to my question what do I need to do to make this rifle legal? With a pistol grip. And maybe change out the stock and fore grip to dress it up s little but mainly I want the pistol grip for sure.
Thanks

69Mach1
12-17-2011, 11:24 PM
Add a magazine lock and comply with 922r. And what do you mean "for some odd reason she wants an ak"? j/k :)

C3ncal559
12-17-2011, 11:30 PM
I would think a nice ar but she said it be awesome to have an ak? In my head I was like "WTF how the hell u know about an ak" lol what 922r?

jvpark
12-17-2011, 11:39 PM
If your buying a Saiga Sportster and are converting it. Add a bullet button and when you convert make sure the parts you are adding are made in the USA (922r compliance).

C3ncal559
12-17-2011, 11:47 PM
http://classicarms.us/Saiga.htm

The .223 saiga would that work for a ca legal build?

stangmar
12-18-2011, 5:47 AM
classic arms doesn't ship to California.

Go to gunsofamerica.com and have them price match and then sell it to you!

wash
12-18-2011, 6:13 AM
Current production Saigas are not listed rifles so they are indeed CA legal as long as you don't build an "assault weapon".

To make sure you don't do that, look under the banner ads up there ^^^ and find the flowchart link. It's a simple to use document that will determine if a gun is legal in California.

Since you want a pistol grip, you can either get a .22 lr AK or do a fixed magazine center fire build.

A fixed magazine gun is an "assault weapon" if the magazine can hold more than ten rounds or if the overall length is less than 30 inches.

Once you figure out what you want and what's legal, then you get to build it.

RustyMacHine
12-18-2011, 7:03 AM
Current production Saigas are not listed rifles so they are indeed CA legal as long as you don't build an "assault weapon".

To make sure you don't do that, look under the banner ads up there ^^^ and find the flowchart link (http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf). It's a simple to use document that will determine if a gun is legal in California.

Since you want a pistol grip, you can either get a .22 lr AK or do a fixed magazine center fire build.

A fixed magazine gun is an "assault weapon" if the magazine can hold more than ten rounds or if the overall length is less than 30 inches.

Once you figure out what you want and what's legal, then you get to build it.

^^ This--- and check this (when converting a SAIGA or building an AK): 922r calculator (http://jobson.us/922r/) to stay compliant.

I understand why WASH mentioned a .22lr AK, but might as well get a 7.62 or a 5.45 to get the full effect.




.

tujungatoes
12-18-2011, 7:24 AM
what 922r?

The gunwiki appears to be down at the moment, but check out this link(eventually)

http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/BuildAkVerifyCompliance

Here's the basics of 922r as it applies to your situation. The ak in "standard" configuration is banned from importation because it's considered a "non-sporting rifle". The saiga because of it's factory 10 rd mag, sporter stock, lack of pistol grip, no bayo...etc. is legal for import as it conforms to the definition of a sporting rifle.

The gist of the law is that any non-sporting rifle(converted saiga) must have no more than 10 imported parts. Stop looking at the screen like :eek:. Not EVERY tiny part is counted.

On an AK the counted parts are:

Receiver
Barrel
Front trunion
Muzzle attachment
Bolt
Bolt carrier
Gas piston
Trigger
Hammer
Disconnector
Buttstock
Pistol grip
Forearm, handguard
Magazine body
Follower
Floorplate

That's a total of 16. On a standard AK pattern rifle 6 parts must be either replaced or removed. You'll notice a couple things on there that aren't on a stock saiga(pistol grip and muzzle attachment). So for your saiga a minimum of 4 parts will keep you legal.....but you're gonna want to stick a Pistol grip on there right?:D ok then call it 5.

Alright first things first Before you install that pistol grip maglock needs to happen. Don't forget.

Then you're going to install your bullet guide and convert your rifle to take AK mags. BAM! 922r comes and slaps you upside the head. Some people debate when 922r is triggered, but as far as I know this is the tipping point. Do you really wanna f**k around here? I mean I love me some guns, but not enough to risk a vacation at club FED. If you wanna be a test case go right ahead. So now it's time to play the 10 or less game.

Some of the easiest 922r parts to replace are the trigger hammer and sear. That'll get you 3 parts closer to 922r compliance, and it's necessary for the conversion anyway. You were gonna add a grip so might as well go domestic(one less foreign part). Then you ditch the saiga stock for a standard AK style, and if you go US on that there's one less. At this point you're good, and have a rifle that looks like this.:D

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/tujungatoes/Saiga762conv1.jpg

Not too shabby, but if you wanna go the whole nine yards you're going to change the handguards, gas block and add a muzzle brake. The handguards were already in your parts count and the gas block isn't counted, so no worries. The muzzle brake however wasn't. Remember you're already right at the limit of foreign made parts. So if you add the muzzle brake it either needs to be us made, or you need to find another part to change out. The gas piston is a good candidate if you want to use a foreign brake. Now you've got a fully converted, badass, super evil, puppy kickin' AK sure to make any gun grabber piss their pants:43:

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/tujungatoes/25034Saiga308Comped77.jpg

And you've complied with the law 100%

ETA yes I know there's no mag locks in those pics. I just pulled em off google image search.

tonelar
12-18-2011, 7:35 AM
Just put wood furniture on an AR's and call it a day. She won't know the difference.
http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/38572-2/AR15wood_0642.jpg
or
Go featureless with a MMG on your Saiga's build (no muzzle brake).

NorCalK9.com
12-18-2011, 9:41 AM
Just put wood furniture on an AR's and call it a day. She won't know the difference.
http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/38572-2/AR15wood_0642.jpg
or
Go featureless with a MMG on your Saiga's build (no muzzle brake).

Dont do it bud, she'll know! Once you tell her she has to clean it she'll know!
If you wanna skip the conversion just buy an otd ak ready to go for her,
But if your intent on saiga i'd say do it,
Funny story, i'm huge in AK's and my girl tells me 2 days ago she wants an AR.... Lmfao its not gonna happen i'm gonna put a collapsible stock on it and call it an ar74 lol

68Datsun510
12-18-2011, 10:01 AM
Speaking of this 922r stuff, is i bought a Saiga rifle and left it original, would the simple act of using TAPCO magazines be illegal???

Mamluke
12-18-2011, 10:30 AM
for some odd reason she wants an[d] ak

She wants a REAL MAN rifle... does that mean you're coming up SHORT in the other department?! ....

....



JK!


....... :D

You go GIRL!!!!

tujungatoes
12-18-2011, 10:55 AM
Speaking of this 922r stuff, is i bought a Saiga rifle and left it original, would the simple act of using TAPCO magazines be illegal???

You'd have to install a bullet guide to use tapco ak mags in your saiga. At this point it ceases to be original because you've converted it to use "high capacity" magazines. My understanding is at that point you're required to conform to 922r. If you did that and didn't replace parts for compliance, you would indeed be breaking the law. As I stated earlier there are some people who will argue that it's not necessary at that point, but I wouldn't risk it.

C3ncal559
12-18-2011, 3:31 PM
Thanks for all you guys information and help!! This is Lil more complicated then building an legal ar lol . I know about the mag lock like my ar bb , the 10 rd mag and the length , isn't there like an stock,pistol grip, and parts kit to make it 922r compliant? That you can purchase complete?

ns3v3n
12-18-2011, 6:19 PM
where are you located OP, maybe some local guys can help you out.

69Mach1
12-18-2011, 6:22 PM
Thanks for all you guys information and help!! This is Lil more complicated then building an legal ar lol . I know about the mag lock like my ar bb , the 10 rd mag and the length , isn't there like an stock,pistol grip, and parts kit to make it 922r compliant? That you can purchase complete?

http://www.k-var.com/shop/home.php?cat=336

C3ncal559
12-18-2011, 6:57 PM
I'm here in the central valley , Visalia prk arms is going to open soon here

wash
12-18-2011, 7:06 PM
Most Saiga specialist stores like DPH and CSS have package deals for buying Saiga conversion parts.

On the other hand, you should never let someone else determine the legality of your gun. Read the code and determine it for yourself.

Once you know what you need and why you need it, it's easy to pick and choose conversion parts instead of just buying the kit.

I probably won't ever buy a kit like that because usually I have strong ideas about exactly what I want so a kit would have to have everything I want and save some money.

C3ncal559
12-18-2011, 7:35 PM
How much am I looking after I purchase a saiga? Just to make it legal?

SJgunguy24
12-18-2011, 8:01 PM
How much am I looking after I purchase a saiga? Just to make it legal?

Depends on the parts and who does the work and how far they.go with the conversion.
Tapco FCG-30$
Tapco buttstock-20-30$
Grip -10-20$
Mag lock 25-50$
Conversion done by a pro, anywhere from 200 on up. It depends on if they weld up the holes, full refinish or spot finish, and how the trigger guard is done.

wash
12-18-2011, 8:08 PM
Zero unless it's a Saiga shotgun, those need a mag lock regardless of their configuration.

If you are talking about a conversion, it depends.

If you are really handy and buy second hand parts, you might be able to do a conversion for $50. If you want an AK100 series clone, it could cost several hundred or more.

New parts for a decent budget conversion with a mag lock should cost less than $150.

Dprimo
12-23-2011, 10:21 PM
I too am considering doing a budget (albeit functional) saiga conversion to tapco intrafuse t6 furniture and that utg quad rail. However, I have not come across any pre packaged kits that include a fcg, bullet guide, pg, t6 stock, and a bullet button. These kits are appealing to me because i do not have to worry about counting parts, and everything would hopefully come in one order. Any suggestions of places that have the afformentioned kits? (everything but the handguard). Thanks in advance!

0351USMC
12-23-2011, 10:23 PM
I too am considering doing a budget (albeit functional) saiga conversion to tapco intrafuse t6 furniture and that utg quad rail. However, I have not come across any pre packaged kits that include a fcg, bullet guide, pg, t6 stock, and a bullet button. These kits are appealing to me because i do not have to worry about counting parts, and everything would hopefully come in one order. Any suggestions of places that have the afformentioned kits? (everything but the handguard). Thanks in advance!

http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-CONVERSION-KITS-cln-SAIGA-223%2C-5.45%2C-7.62%2C-308/Categories

AlliedArmory
12-23-2011, 10:25 PM
Add a magazine lock and comply with 922r.

Exactly what he said ^

http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/BuildAkVerifyCompliance

Pretty simple operation if you have the tools. Just take your time.

Dprimo
12-23-2011, 10:45 PM
I must be missing something because i dont see what i am looking for at carolina. Help?

Dprimo
12-23-2011, 10:50 PM
To be clear, i am looking for bullet button, bullet guide, pg, and stock all in one package. Does that exist?

wash
12-23-2011, 11:23 PM
We've got go get rid of gun owners that don't want to spend any time worrying about the legality of their gun.

California law is a mine field and people who won't think will wind up making mistakes and get in trouble.

Take the time to learn.

Dprimo
12-24-2011, 9:33 AM
Wash, I appreciate your sentiment. However, I am simply stating that if I can find a kit of parts that will be 992r compliant (it is to my understanding that using the components that I specified will keep me compliant) it would be much more convinient to me in that I will be purchasing one "kit" rather than each individual component. That being said, have any of you seen such a kit?

NorCArl
12-24-2011, 10:16 AM
I have never seen the kit your talking about with a bullet button. At carolina and other places the most you can get in one kit seems to be FCG, retaining plate, plugs, grip, and stock. The bullet guide and bullet button need to be purchased separately. Try dinzagarms.com for the guide, for the button try a solar -tac I've heard is really good.

Dprimo
12-24-2011, 10:47 AM
Thanks!