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jteamdelo
12-17-2011, 10:15 PM
So I am really looking into getting my next weapon and Im leaning towards the SCAR 17s, I want a 308 semi auto rifle and this one just seems like the best one for me. So Im still looking to learn more about this rifle what are some of the Pros and Cons that you guys know of???
Thanks in advance

osis32
12-17-2011, 10:22 PM
Lots of pros. Only cons are costs and possibly reciprocating charging handle. Oh and charging handle clearance with optics. If you have the money get one.

jteamdelo
12-17-2011, 10:32 PM
Why is the reciprocating charging handle bad???

Lagduf
12-17-2011, 10:34 PM
Cost and availability of magazines is currently something you should be aware of as a possible "con."

operator13
12-17-2011, 10:36 PM
Cons: magazine availability, and depending on what optic you decide to mount, the charging handle may or may not pose and issue (although they have angled charging handles now).

Pros: everything else.

I'm not going to say ammo is a con, because if you have enough for a SCAR 17, you have enough to feed it.

jteamdelo
12-17-2011, 10:39 PM
Well its going to take me a while to save for it, and also my Dad just got his FFL so he gets guns at cost which is nice, and why is the charging handle an issue with the optics???

ir0nclash86
12-17-2011, 10:40 PM
That angled charging handle is no bueno. The stock CH is much better.

Lagduf
12-17-2011, 10:41 PM
Well its going to take me a while to save for it, and also my Dad just got his FFL so he gets guns at cost which is nice, and why is the charging handle an issue with the optics???

With certain optic mounts it's possible when charging the weapon for your knuckles to come in to contact with the bottom of the mount (like a QD lever or twist nut.) It can scrape your knuckles pretty good I guess.

This is based on what I've read, have not experienced this as I have not had the good fortune to shoot a SCAR.

osis32
12-17-2011, 10:46 PM
If you're not careful the reciprocating charging handle can break you finger or thumb.

operator13
12-17-2011, 10:54 PM
yC3EmQwv8hk

Quiet
12-18-2011, 6:52 AM
My $0.02...

Pros = lightweight, very reliable, accurate
Cons = price, magazine availability/price, making it CA legal

Since I shoot AKs more than ARs, I'm use to a reciprocating charging handle, so it does not bother me or make much of a difference.

cutty01
12-18-2011, 8:19 AM
Here is a nice video comparing the SCAR 17 with another popular .308/7.62 semi auto - the LMT MWS. It goes over some of the pros and cons of the each. I own the LMT and am very happy with it.

yVE--2U5gxM

BHPFan
12-18-2011, 8:38 AM
My $0.02...

Pros = lightweight, very reliable, accurate
Cons = price, magazine availability/price, making it CA legal

Since I shoot AKs more than ARs, I'm use to a reciprocating charging handle, so it does not bother me or make much of a difference.

That just about sums it up.

The cons are pretty much the reasons I won't own a SCAR while living in the People's Republik of Kalifornia especially making it CA legal.

If I were living in a more gun-friendlier state, the SCAR 17 will definitely one of the toys that I will get.

Go Navy
12-18-2011, 9:01 AM
The charging handle issue is just a matter of making alittle adjustment to how you place your support hand, and how you manipulate the bolt handle. Also, the handle is easily reversible to the opposite side, by the user, with just a field strip. If you read the FN boards, you find that both lefties and righties run it on both sides.....just a matter of personal preference.

Careful selection of an optic or scope mount can avoid most of the problem mentioned here, that is clearance of one's hand when manually cycling the bolt with an optic mount in place. For instance, I have an American Defense QD mount on mine. I left the bolt handle on the left side, and put the mount with its QD levers on the right side. No big deal.

I have the angled charging handle, which is an aftermarket part. I like it. Easy to install. If I don't like it after awhile, I'll go back to the factory bolt handle.

If memory serves, both the M1, M1 Carbine, M14, and Ruger Mini-14 have reciprocating bolt handles......? Not sure about the FN FAL.

On the SCAR, when would you actually use the bolt handle? To clear a failure to feed, or as a forward assist (not likely). Or maybe to chamber the first round of the first mag of the day? It locks back on an empty mag. The bolt release is identical to an AR-15 and in the same location. You can release the bolt on a fresh mag by pulling it back slightly and releasing it as an alternative to the bolt release button. I guess I'm saying you don't use the bolt handle much but it is there if you need it.

As to the Taxifornia issues, my SCAR 16S is Pelosifornia legal and has only two required mods so it won't offend liberals: the folding stock is pinned and won't fold (a reversible mod if I ever move to a free state), and a bullet button (also a reversible mod if you go over the wall to freedom).

Go Navy
12-18-2011, 9:09 AM
I forgot to add: While mine's a 16S, and not a 17S, operationally they are virtually identical. I just would urge you to get one; you'll love it and won't regret it. I have no regrets. Mine has never, ever malfunctioned. Because these rifles are piston driven, plus the way they're designed, they run cool and clean. For piston rifles, they're relatively light weight, too.

It doesn't really need any extras because it is so well equipped as standard. I personally did not like the standard PWS muzzle brake.....I found it to be too loud. I removed it and sold it. I put a thread protector on the muzzle until I make up my mind what I want to install there. The rifle shoots fine without the brake. But the rifle is still Pelosifornia legal, length wise, with just the thread protector. It just doesn't look as cool but I don't care about that.

starsnuffer
12-18-2011, 10:48 AM
The only real question to ask is what your intended use is. It is a battle rifle with a pencil barrel profile. It can be quite accurate, but was not really designed to be a precision rifle in it's 17s clothes. If you're cool with that, it's a great rifle. If you're going to be bench rest shooting it, you might be disappointed.

-W

Cato
12-18-2011, 10:52 AM
The big negative for me is that it isn't battle proven.

Quiet
12-18-2011, 11:09 AM
The cons are pretty much the reasons I won't own a SCAR while living in the People's Republik of Kalifornia especially making it CA legal.

If I were living in a more gun-friendlier state, the SCAR 17 will definitely one of the toys that I will get.

:iagree:

I'm with you on it not being worth it to have in CA.

The big negative for me is that it isn't battle proven.
:rolleyes:
The Mk 17 Mod 0 (SCAR-H) has been in use with US SOCOM for the last 2-3 years and the Mk 20 Mod 0 (SCAR-H SSR) went into use this year.

The SCAR system (Mk 16 Mod 0, Mk 17 Mod 0 & Mk 20 Mod 0) has not seen decades of use on the battlefield, but it is currently being used on the battlefield (Afghanistan & Iraq) with no negative comments about it's reliability and accuracy from those using them.

starsnuffer
12-18-2011, 11:09 AM
The big negative for me is that it isn't battle proven.

;/

OK.

louscamaro91
12-18-2011, 11:26 AM
Couple of negatives.

Parts support isn't there and not affordable.
I have enough spare parts for my AR's to build 3 more.
I'm not a fan of the plastics lower housing, the stock feels flimsy.
Mags are outrageous.

cmace22
12-18-2011, 11:44 AM
The biggest con for me would be the proprietary mags. This of course is only a negative if you cant afford several of them. Its the same for handgun magazines, they are proprietary (for the most part). Just get yourself a few (10+) backups and your problems are solved.

ir0nclash86
12-18-2011, 12:02 PM
The biggest con for me would be the proprietary mags. This of course is only a negative if you cant afford several of them. Its the same for handgun magazines, they are proprietary (for the most part). Just get yourself a few (10+) backups and your problems are solved.

Easier said than done. Mags are impossible to find let alone people who are willing to ship them to Cali.

battleship
12-18-2011, 12:06 PM
Cons- magazines not available FNH say they are trying to sort this out starting in January 2012 hopefully that will include the Cali 10 round mag.
I believe PMAG's designed for the SCAR 17 are in development.

Your friends will want to shoot it allot.

Pros, low recoil,
Very light in weight compared to an AR10, LWRC REPR for example.
looks good in your collection.

cmace22
12-18-2011, 12:28 PM
Easier said than done. Mags are impossible to find let alone people who are willing to ship them to Cali.

I agree.

MrPlink
12-18-2011, 3:31 PM
The big negative for me is that it isn't battle proven.

not at all, this guy just decided to grow a beard and buy some really cool sun glasses so he could show all his buddies in Tora Bora his new toy.
http://images-kitup.military.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/SCAR-with-SEAL-in-Afghanist.jpg

but as others have said, biggest down side right now really is the mag situation, I cant help but see that changing fairly soon though. They might not ever be "cheap" but at least available.

Check out the stock too, people seem to either love it or hate it

MUKAK
12-18-2011, 4:01 PM
yC3EmQwv8hk

haha i wanted a scar 308 till i saw this video... ill stick to my Gas Piston AR for now

Cato
12-18-2011, 4:25 PM
not at all, this guy just decided to grow a beard and buy some really cool sun glasses so he could show all his buddies in Tora Bora his new toy.
http://images-kitup.military.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/SCAR-with-SEAL-in-Afghanist.jpg


OK, if you can get past how sexy you find this guy, then he might tell you about a rattle in the stock, the very limited number of cheek weld positions, defective stock pins, and who knows what else in this newly developed weapon. If in a decade or two and a couple wars, the SCAR is still around, then it might be called "battle proven."

Josh3239
12-18-2011, 4:32 PM
I'm surprised so many people are down for the SCAR 17s. I suppose I can play devil's advocate. I am not doubting it is an excellent combat rifle nor that it isn't cool. In fact it no doubt a real cool gun. But the thing is, a good .308 bolt rifle will always be more accurate if you put as much money into it as the cost of the SCAR 17. If your after a .308 battle rifle, for price you could get yourself an FAL, M1A, and an AR10 and still probably have some left over cash. It is really overpriced for a .308 rifle. Can it do something that an FAL, AR10 or an M1A cannot do? Nothing that I am aware of.

A couple of people said it is combat proven without problems. Those people haven't looked hard enough. Don't take my or anyone else's word for it, look it up yourself. The SCARs have had limited field use and it has been successful, however there have been problems.

If you want it and it is in your budget, you should get it. I'd love to own one but for me personally I have a hardtime justifying (or finding) that much money for a regular .308 rifle, particularly one that is nothing especially unique. I'd personally rather take the money and get an AR10 with a couple of mags, ammo and a nice scope. Just my $0.02

MrPlink
12-18-2011, 5:11 PM
OK, if you can get past how sexy you find this guy, then he might tell you about a rattle in the stock, the very limited number of cheek weld positions, defective stock pins, and who knows what else in this newly developed weapon. If in a decade or two and a couple wars, the SCAR is still around, then it might be called "battle proven."

yeah you are right, he hated it so much and its such a POS the Navy just announced that is buying more Mk17, Mk20, AND Mk16 because they felt the SUCK meter could be turned up a few notches for DEVGRU

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/12/15/navy-to-buy-additional-fn-scar-mk-13-mk-16-mk-17-and-mk-20/

If only they had listened to Cato instead, they could have saved themselves a lot of $$$

starsnuffer
12-18-2011, 6:30 PM
If your after a .308 battle rifle, for price you could get yourself an FAL, M1A, and an AR10 and still probably have some left over cash. It is really overpriced for a .308 rifle. Can it do something that an FAL, AR10 or an M1A cannot do? Nothing that I am aware of.

Weight is everything. A FAL is heavy, due to the design of the tilting carrier, the receiver has to be made out of high grade steel. Same thing with an AR10, and most definitely an M1A (which also needs black magic and a whole lot of luck to get to be accurate enough for marksman work).

The SCAR isn't perfect. Hell the operators who were given them didnt' even want them, they wanted HK's, but you know there are a lot of complaints about the HK's too.

That's why I asked the user what he waned to use it for. If humping it around with 3-4MOA accuracy in mind is in the equation, it is THE battle rifle to go with. If bench shooting is the order of the day, there are better options.

-W

cmace22
12-18-2011, 6:55 PM
yeah you are right, he hated it so much and its such a POS the Navy just announced that is buying more Mk17, Mk20, AND Mk16 because they felt the SUCK meter could be turned up a few notches for DEVGRU

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/12/15/navy-to-buy-additional-fn-scar-mk-13-mk-16-mk-17-and-mk-20/

If only they had listened to Cato instead, they could have saved themselves a lot of $$$

Once Cato declares it "Battle proven" Ill buy one :)

After all, its only been on the battle field for 6+ years now! Maybe the fact the military keeps buying them means they just break often....

fusionstar
12-18-2011, 7:21 PM
Reliable, good shooting, fairly accurate and light.

Trigger can be better, cut the price in half.

Is it worth it? Anything is worth something.

HonkingAntelope
12-18-2011, 7:28 PM
The charging handle issue is just a matter of making alittle adjustment to how you place your support hand, and how you manipulate the bolt handle. Also, the handle is easily reversible to the opposite side, by the user, with just a field strip. If you read the FN boards, you find that both lefties and righties run it on both sides.....just a matter of personal preference.

Careful selection of an optic or scope mount can avoid most of the problem mentioned here, that is clearance of one's hand when manually cycling the bolt with an optic mount in place. For instance, I have an American Defense QD mount on mine. I left the bolt handle on the left side, and put the mount with its QD levers on the right side. No big deal.

I have the angled charging handle, which is an aftermarket part. I like it. Easy to install. If I don't like it after awhile, I'll go back to the factory bolt handle.

If memory serves, both the M1, M1 Carbine, M14, and Ruger Mini-14 have reciprocating bolt handles......? Not sure about the FN FAL.

On the SCAR, when would you actually use the bolt handle? To clear a failure to feed, or as a forward assist (not likely). Or maybe to chamber the first round of the first mag of the day? It locks back on an empty mag. The bolt release is identical to an AR-15 and in the same location. You can release the bolt on a fresh mag by pulling it back slightly and releasing it as an alternative to the bolt release button. I guess I'm saying you don't use the bolt handle much but it is there if you need it.

As to the Taxifornia issues, my SCAR 16S is Pelosifornia legal and has only two required mods so it won't offend liberals: the folding stock is pinned and won't fold (a reversible mod if I ever move to a free state), and a bullet button (also a reversible mod if you go over the wall to freedom).

I forgot to add: While mine's a 16S, and not a 17S, operationally they are virtually identical. I just would urge you to get one; you'll love it and won't regret it. I have no regrets. Mine has never, ever malfunctioned. Because these rifles are piston driven, plus the way they're designed, they run cool and clean. For piston rifles, they're relatively light weight, too.

It doesn't really need any extras because it is so well equipped as standard. I personally did not like the standard PWS muzzle brake.....I found it to be too loud. I removed it and sold it. I put a thread protector on the muzzle until I make up my mind what I want to install there. The rifle shoots fine without the brake. But the rifle is still Pelosifornia legal, length wise, with just the thread protector. It just doesn't look as cool but I don't care about that.

That's an awful lot of excuses for a naked rifle in the $2K+ price range. CA legal situation and 5.56 vs 7.62 NATO issues notwithstanding, a lot of us civvies with mid-range budgets have pretty much the same question as the military: What do rifles like SCAR or ACR offer to justify the cost of purchase or switch from AR-15 or another semi-auto rifle platform?

IMO, there's nothing wrong with showing off your toy budget at the range by buying an expensive and exotic semi-auto rifle. It's just that pricier doesn't always mean better.

romeo26
12-18-2011, 8:36 PM
i have one and i like it. talked to calegalmags and they said that they will try to carry them when the mag situation improves.

MrPlink
12-18-2011, 9:21 PM
What do rifles like SCAR or ACR offer to justify the cost of purchase or switch from AR-15 or another semi-auto rifle platform?



I take it you are not familiar with the platform at all.
There are a billion threads on it here and elsewhere.
Do some homework, and even better yet, get your hands on one and shoot, then you should be able to answer your own question.

thmpr
12-18-2011, 9:33 PM
I can't wait to get my hands on a FDE and a Black version... Need one of each!

MrPlink
12-19-2011, 1:06 AM
I can't wait to get my hands on a FDE and a Black version... Need one of each!

thats the professional way.
I could use a OD or multicam one too :43:

JPB
12-19-2011, 10:38 AM
Pros, low recoil,
Very light in weight compared to an AR10, LWRC REPR for example.
looks good in your collection.


Weight is everything. A FAL is heavy, due to the design of the tilting carrier, the receiver has to be made out of high grade steel. Same thing with an AR10, and most definitely an M1A (which also needs black magic and a whole lot of luck to get to be accurate enough for marksman work).

-W

The infantry weight 16" Armalite AR10 is lighter than the SCAR 17S.

Quiet
12-19-2011, 4:36 PM
Pics of some more cool kids playing with SCARs in the sandbox.
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/6612/3911376276371792837.jpghttp://img163.imageshack.us/img163/9285/scarsqplp0.jpg
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/6853/270724.jpg

MrPlink
12-19-2011, 8:02 PM
The infantry weight 16" Armalite AR10 is lighter than the SCAR 17S.

BARELY, and that is with a std plastic handguard. Put on a floated quad rail and its a different story. Not to mention IIRC Armalite lists accuracy of that rifle as 2plus MOA, which the scar easily beats.

K_Weez
12-19-2011, 9:18 PM
Pics of some more cool kids playing with SCARs in the sandbox.
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/6612/3911376276371792837.jpg


ya...

RIP SrA Mark A. Forester

JPB
12-19-2011, 9:37 PM
BARELY, and that is with a std plastic handguard. Put on a floated quad rail and its a different story. Not to mention IIRC Armalite lists accuracy of that rifle as 2plus MOA, which the scar easily beats.

The topic at hand was weight. Lots of "SCAR 17s is lighter than the AR10" being thrown around here. Simply isn't true. Let the facts be facts.

While the listed accuracy is 2 MOA, it's well known that the Armalite will do much better. If The SCAR is more accurate, it's not by much. FN hasn't even posted an accuracy spec that I know of. Also the one could argue that the Armalite receivers are built from much more durable materials (forged aluminum vs. plastic and extruded aluminum).

I have both rifles so it's not like I really care to argue all the trade offs. Each has it's pros and cons. Both are great, but the AR10 is lighter. Also, the SCAR isn't the end all, be all that some think that it is. I actually shoot my FAL better than either of them!

Mightypoptart
12-19-2011, 10:46 PM
From what I've heard:

Pros:

-Looks cool
-Low recoil for a .308
-Feels good

Cons:

-Hard to find, as well as its parts (money, money, money)
-Insanely expensive
-Plastic, chintzy stock
-Heavy trigger
-In Kalifornia, the stock is pinned, although this isn't permanent as is the BB.

But I still would like one myself, but that's not gonna happen for me anytime soon, and maybe even never in my life. And afterlife. :p

kozumasbullitt
12-19-2011, 11:11 PM
If you have the money buy a scar17, if you don't then buy an AR10.

MrPlink
12-20-2011, 12:32 AM
If you have the money buy a scar17, if you don't then buy an AR10.

Id rather go with a FAL or G3 patter myself

docsmileyface
12-20-2011, 8:40 AM
Pros for the SCAR

Lightweight, even with an Elcan it weighs less than my brother in law's LMT MWS

Most of the carbon is deposited forward of the front sight -- the inside of the gun just needs a wipe down, no scrubbing and picking and q-tipping for four hours like an AR

Cons

Recoil really isn't that light if you pull the PWS off. Its manageable but its sort of a light gun for the round its shooting and you need to really lock it into yourself when you fire it

magazines are hard to find/expensive if you don't know where to look

glocklover
12-20-2011, 9:31 AM
Not quite, to make that statement, you may want to be barrel specific,
from armalite's site:

--Match grade rifles are guaranteed to have accuracy better than 1 minute of angle.
--Carbines with 16 inch long stainless barrels will shoot better than 1.5 minutes of angle.
--Chromed standard grade barrels will shoot within 2 minutes of angle.
A minute of angle (MOA) is approximately 1 inch per 100 yards of range


BARELY, and that is with a std plastic handguard. Put on a floated quad rail and its a different story. Not to mention IIRC Armalite lists accuracy of that rifle as 2plus MOA, which the scar easily beats.

jteamdelo
12-26-2011, 11:23 PM
Thanks you guys for all the info, hopefully I can save up all the moneys I need for this awesome gun!!!

rightwingmaniac
12-27-2011, 1:32 PM
From what I've heard:

Pros:

-Looks cool
-Low recoil for a .308
-Feels good

Cons:

-Hard to find, as well as its parts (money, money, money)
-Insanely expensive
-Plastic, chintzy stock
-Heavy trigger
-In Kalifornia, the stock is pinned, although this isn't permanent as is the BB.

But I still would like one myself, but that's not gonna happen for me anytime soon, and maybe even never in my life. And afterlife. :p

what do you mean the bb is permenent. Its not like the bb on an ar 15 where you could take it off if you leave this commie state?

kozumasbullitt
12-27-2011, 4:59 PM
what do you mean the bb is permenent. Its not like the bb on an ar 15 where you could take it off if you leave this commie state?

The BB can be reversed and the stock can be blocked (not pinned). Neither are permanent and take minutes to install/uninstall.