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View Full Version : 2012 PLANS - SHOULD EXTRA AMMO = CARBINE COURSE???


Flying Bones
12-17-2011, 9:57 PM
I just bought an extra round or two...and it's got me thinking, 2012 is the year i'm going to put some money into my skills. Primarily because of the opportunity to learn, but also, it sounds like a blast.

I'm finishing up my featureless build thanks to Exile's Hammerhead and a PWS-TTO from DSG Arms, so i'll be good to go in the weapon department (even though I am eyeing an upgrade to 16" Noveske upper) (oh ya, and I want to get a red dot too, undecided on Aimpoint T-1 vs. EOTech XPS).

MY QUESTIONS:
1. Besides a Rifle, Ammo, and Mags, what else needs to be on my short list to be well prepared to get the most out of a carbine course.
2. Anyone have experience with any Sacramento area classes that were awesome learning opportunities?

BRANDON7766
12-17-2011, 10:13 PM
There are two schools down in Modesto that come recommended, I took a ccw with valleydefense.com. Good class, they also do carbine. There is also another school affiliated with Sierra arms but I can't recall the name.

HK Dave
12-17-2011, 10:18 PM
Some kind of speed rig for carrying mags and perhaps a dump pouch?

FatalKitty
12-17-2011, 10:20 PM
I just bought an extra round or two...and it's got me thinking, 2012 is the year i'm going to put some money into my skills. Primarily because of the opportunity to learn, but also, it sounds like a blast.

I'm finishing up my featureless build thanks to Exile's Hammerhead and a PWS-TTO from DSG Arms, so i'll be good to go in the weapon department (even though I am eyeing an upgrade to 16" Noveske upper) (oh ya, and I want to get a red dot too, undecided on Aimpoint T-1 vs. EOTech XPS).

MY QUESTIONS:
1. Besides a Rifle, Ammo, and Mags, what else needs to be on my short list to be well prepared to get the most out of a carbine course.
2. Anyone have experience with any Sacramento area classes that were awesome learning opportunities?

check out gofast1.com
that's where I intended to be taking classes from now on.
they also have an equipment list.

as for suggestions on gear - what I suggest is below
lots of mags (as many as you can afford, have them loaded)
a GOOD comfortable sling - any hot range course you will have your weapon slung 75% of the time - better be dang comfy (my sling wasn't the first course I went to... made some adjustments at lunch but after the course I found a new sling)
light chest rig or belt rig - I have the maxpedition mini chest rig... super light and comfortable, also doesn't get in the way when you have to shake down your shirt to get some hot brass out from your neighbor like a full tactical vest will (learned hard way)
suggestion on optics - MOA - something with a precise small MOA dot is best.. AIMPOINT is my suggestion if you must get one of the fancy expensive name brand ones. I've run iron sights in both courses I've attended.
GLOVES - if you will be changing mags, especially if your mags are in a puch like a condor or tac tailor or any other pouch... you will tear up your cuticles reaching into them to grab mags without gloves.
electronic ear protection - something like howard or peltor... hear range commands and instructors while on the firing line.

that's all i have

glock7
12-17-2011, 11:37 PM
Tools, such as Punches, screwdrivers, pliers, ar wrench. Lube, cleaning stuff. Extra parts such as gas rings, bcg or bolt. Parts kits or extra rifle. Extra optic or buis just to have. I've seen these parts go down in classes. Good luck to you and have fun.

zombiescanlearn
12-18-2011, 12:26 AM
Get the bullet button tool that goes on the magazines, you'll need to have one to reload. A chest rig to hold your mags, or if you want a good workout, get a plate carrier and put some steel plates in them. A duty belt with a holster for your secondary weapon. Sun block, water.

Flying Bones
12-18-2011, 1:54 PM
Course Options:
I like the looks of Gray Ops but i'm open to other suggestions, bang for your buck, I can put down the $$ up front for more time on the range if needed.

Gear:
Rig- Need something practical considering i'm a civi and not heading to the sandbox anytime soon. If you can't cover it with a jacket, it's pretty much useless to me.
Dump Pouch - Need something
Sight - T1 from TierOne most likely
Earpro - Working on an upgrade to Howard Leight for Christmas Present
Gloves - Have Mechanix, may upgrade but they work
Sling - Got a few, one comfortable padded VTAC/MS2 Custom Hybrid
Mags - Have a bundle
Weapon Tools - Got 'em
Weapon Spares - Backup quality, but got 'em
Featureless - So no BB.

Looks like choosing the course and choosing my rig are going to be the hardest decisions. I can run 2 classes through Gray Ops for only $250. Seems like a decent deal...i'm going to keep a hard eye out in case they run any specials, in which case i'll jump on it. With the Rig, I'd like to keep this as practical as possible, which is almost a joke in itself considering i'm just a civi, but whatever, at least one thing is for sure, if S goes down, i'm not driving around with a full loadout and camo pants on.

FatalKitty
12-18-2011, 3:04 PM
civi or not... there is no point in having a weapon if you aren't going to train with it! :)

mechanix gloves are excellent... I use them!
as for optics... be sure you aren't relying on them - I've seen expensive sights go down on a student and they had had no back up irons.

repr patriot
12-18-2011, 7:27 PM
I second Grey Ops, Gordon and gang are great! I also highly recommend LMD Defense. Try to take classes with several companies, you will pick up a lot more good info that way and not get stuck with one methodology.

BANG BANG
12-18-2011, 11:23 PM
Course Options:
I like the looks of Gray Ops but i'm open to other suggestions, bang for your buck, I can put down the $$ up front for more time on the range if needed.

Gear:
Rig- a whole lots choices. I started out with a used $35.00 Blackhawk rig
had room for 8 AR mags and 2 pistol mags. I now run a carrier with plates and soft armor
Dump Pouch - $10.00 Condor pouch has been fine for me
Sight - I run an Eotech XPS with simple Magpul BUIS
Earpro - Howard Leights are great.
Gloves - Have Mechanix, may upgrade but they work < works of me !!
Sling - Got a few, one comfortable padded VTAC/MS2 Custom Hybrid
Mags - Have a bundle
Weapon Tools - Got 'em
Weapon Spares - Backup quality, but got 'em
Featureless - So no BB.

Looks like choosing the course and choosing my rig are going to be the hardest decisions. I can run 2 classes through Gray Ops for only $250. Seems like a decent deal...i'm going to keep a hard eye out in case they run any specials, in which case i'll jump on it. With the Rig, I'd like to keep this as practical as possible, which is almost a joke in itself considering i'm just a civi, but whatever, at least one thing is for sure, if S goes down, i'm not driving around with a full loadout and camo pants on.

I've run all my class with LMS so far and have great success and fun

will try a few new outfits in 2012 as well

sigstroker
12-19-2011, 12:55 AM
Consider a class in NV or AZ so you can use your AR properly?

prc77
12-19-2011, 4:52 AM
check out OSOE's Micro M4 rig http://originalsoegear.com/microrig.html.
If your a lefty, make sure you tell them.
OSOE gear is great. You will NOT be disappointed

Gray Ops 1*
12-20-2011, 9:18 AM
Gray Ops Firearms Specialty Training offers training in all platforms, Handgun, Shotgun, Carbine, & Precision Rifle. Check us out www.gofast1.com

Since the OP was looking for Carbine Training here are our up coming Carbine Courses:
Direct link to course descriptions... http://www.gofast1.com/carbinecourses.php

Classes Coming Soon:
Fundamental Tactical Carbine - Feb. 4, 2012
Transitional Tactical Carbine - Feb. 5, 2012
Skill Builder/Maintenance Course - March 17-18, 2012
Advance Tactical Carbine - May 26-27, 2012

"When the time to perform arrives, the time to prepare has past"
Here is a video review of our Fundamental/Transitional Carbine Course
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHrPKRiKke8&list=WLEF8CA64CBC9EED2B&index=1&feature=plpp_video

1 SIG fan
12-20-2011, 9:22 AM
Are you guys using featureless or Bb setups for classes. If BB, what tool to release?

Thanks... Sorry for the thread jack.

Gray Ops 1*
12-20-2011, 2:18 PM
Are you guys using featureless or Bb setups for classes. If BB, what tool to release?

Thanks... Sorry for the thread jack.

We teach all platforms of releases, LEO/MIL or Featureless or use of BB. We don't teach the way we teach a way. There is not a right or wrong way. AR, AK, HK, Mini-14, FN, etc all are welcome.

As for BB releases, I prefer the UBBT but also offer a "Dummy Round" bullet on a retractable key chain to use as a back up, (1 is none - 2 is 1). There are other methods that work as well, finger stylist, right hand glove with a shortened roofing nail in the middle finger, flatten the nails head and place a piece of duct tape over the head once in the glove's finger, a loose round in the shooter mouth as been utilized in our classes as well. A handcuff key with the key portion filed off attached to a retractable key chain has also come through. The methods are almost endless, if you can find a gizmo that will release the BB it can be used. The finger styles and finger-nail allow for left handed reloading while the other methods are normally strong hand only.

The bottom line is we'll show you several different ways to change your mags allowing you to choose the method that works best for you.

"When the time to perform arrives, the time to prepare has past"

1 SIG fan
12-20-2011, 2:23 PM
thank you for the great info. I'll check out our site.... may have to plan a training trip up that way.

vintagearms
12-20-2011, 2:33 PM
KISS system works best. Good ear and eye protection. I do suggest getting the lowest profile earmuffs because that stock may get in the way, or electronic.
Obviously a good gun belt- 5.11 trainer is what I use.
Ammo pouches are typically not needed as you will have ample time to reload magazines. At least a good trainer should give you that time.
Decent mag pouch- 5.11 and Blackhawk makes some good ones.
My personal preferenece would be to take the class with a featureless rifle. If you have never been to a training course, the last thing you want is to be fumbling around while your trying to learn. Just my .02.

Gray Ops 1*
12-20-2011, 3:12 PM
Flying Bones,

Some Gear Recommendations:
Rig- Need something practical:
If you're looking for a chest rig look at the new Condor #MCR5: Recon Chest Rig, comes in Black, OD, Tan for $30.00 or Mulitcam for $55.00 http://www.condoroutdoor.com/mcr5_recon_chest_rig.aspx.
If you'd just like a drop type for your belt to hang from your belt you can go with a Condor #MA65: Drop Leg M4 Mag Pouch for $22.00 also in Black, OD, or Tan http://www.condoroutdoor.com/ma65droplegm4magpouch.aspx

Dump Pouch - Need something:
Condor offers 2 different Dump Pouches, #MA22: 3-fold Mag Recovery Pouch (same colors) $10.00 http://www.condoroutdoor.com/ma223-foldmagrecoverypouch.aspx
or #MA36 : Roll - Up Utility Pouch $9.00 http://www.condoroutdoor.com/ma36roll-uputilitypouch.aspx

There are many other brands out there, these I've tried and offer to my students. If you have any other needs let me know and I'll see what I can do for you. ggray@gofast1.com

stormy_clothing
12-20-2011, 5:07 PM
The single best thing you can do before spending any money is to improve your fitness if at all possible.

I see people at these courses that can't move very fast or become quite small enough or fit into the areas required for proper cover.

Also personally I find that unless you happen to also have body armor on and a full back pack full of other stuff chest rigs are ridiculous. I would carry any extra mags or other weight as low as possible and within reach like belt mounted mag carriers.

glock7
12-20-2011, 6:51 PM
The single best thing you can do before spending any money is to improve your fitness if at all possible.

I see people at these courses that can't move very fast or become quite small enough or fit into the areas required for proper cover.

Also personally I find that unless you happen to also have body armor on and a full back pack full of other stuff chest rigs are ridiculous. I would carry any extra mags or other weight as low as possible and within reach like belt mounted mag carriers.

i agree with the minimalist rig. a long day of humping body armor around kicks you in the butt. but you get a good workout.

Flying Bones
12-20-2011, 8:18 PM
@Gordon - Thanks for the info! It's always nice to hear it direct. I'll take a look into the gear you have mentioned. I'm really looking forward to the chance to take a course soon and you're offering what i'm looking for.

@Vintagearms - KISS is great, for some, but not me. LOL. I'm anal when it comes to gear, even though it's always a work in progress, and i'm constantly changing my theory, I'm not a minimalist. I go to the range with 2 huge toolboxes. :rolleyes: Trust me, I wish I wasn't this way.

@stormy_clothing A guy can always be in better shape. I'm in 20 pullup shape right now. Oughta be good enough not to gas out completely in a carbine course, LOL, but if Gordon reads this, and tests his subjects, I may eat my words. I agree to a point about chest rigs. I like belt mounted equipment, like my ITW fast mags.

@glock7 I don't own any armor so I won't be humping a bunch of weight, although February would be the best time to do that.