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View Full Version : 223 Wylde chamber, can shoot .223 and 5.56?


tango5
12-17-2011, 11:58 AM
Hey guys, just want to get some clarification on the 223 Wylde chamber. I have heard that you can shoot .223 in a 5.56 marked barrel, but not 5.56 in a .223 marked barrel. I understand the difference in pressure from the 2 calibers. I'm looking at a 223 Wylde chamber upper and want to make sure what is safe to shoot, can you shoot both calibers without having to worry about the excessive pressure with the 5.56 caliber? Thanks in advance.

Cokebottle
12-17-2011, 12:04 PM
Yes.
.223 Wylde can fire both.

These are normally found in 1:8 stainless "competition" grade barrels, so they cost a little more, are a little more accurate, and don't last quite as long... but the Wylde is not exclusive to stainless.

HK Dave
12-17-2011, 12:25 PM
... but the Wylde is not exclusive to stainless.

Who makes chrome lined wylde? Would love to try one out.

roushstage2
12-17-2011, 12:31 PM
RRA has one: http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=387

HK Dave
12-17-2011, 12:51 PM
You sure that's chrome lined?

Any idea if they sell the barrel alone?

Eargasm
12-17-2011, 12:59 PM
You sure that's chrome lined?

Any idea if they sell the barrel alone?

http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=272

roushstage2
12-17-2011, 1:05 PM
Hmm, perhaps it's not. Here they have a 20" Wylde, but one specifically says chrome lined: http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=272

HK Dave
12-17-2011, 1:25 PM
http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=272

Those are NOT chrome lined wylde barrels. :(

missiontrails
12-17-2011, 1:53 PM
My ARP 4150CMV barrel is Wylde....................

HK Dave
12-17-2011, 2:15 PM
ARP?

steve92407
12-17-2011, 3:19 PM
The Wylde chamber has a longer leade and freebore dimension.So you can shoot 556 with more accuracy.I do not understand why you take that gain away with chrome lining?

HK Dave
12-17-2011, 4:27 PM
Because I have everything else and am curious to try it? ;)

dieselpower
12-17-2011, 4:38 PM
you dont need chrome lining. its for guys who dont know how to clean or dont have time to clean. a non-chrome lined barrel will not last as long, but you are talking about a few thousand less rounds when all is said and done. non-chrome lined will tend to me more accurate.

now get S&W to make a Wylde chamber 16" Melonite QPQ treated 4140CM barrel and you can say good buy to the 4150CMV chrome lined. There would be no real use for 4150CMV when that happens. Aa it stands now 4150CMV is nearly obsolete for a civilian or LEO.

Richard Erichsen
12-17-2011, 6:32 PM
you dont need chrome lining. its for guys who dont know how to clean or dont have time to clean. a non-chrome lined barrel will not last as long, but you are talking about a few thousand less rounds when all is said and done. non-chrome lined will tend to me more accurate.

now get S&W to make a Wylde chamber 16" Melonite QPQ treated 4140CM barrel and you can say good buy to the 4150CMV chrome lined. There would be no real use for 4150CMV when that happens. Aa it stands now 4150CMV is nearly obsolete for a civilian or LEO.

Agree - the two terms are "cleaning" and if you use a rod "bore guide."

Melonite QPQ is a very good compliment to a high quality 41xx barrel and will outlast and outshoot 99% of riflemen!

R

steve92407
12-17-2011, 6:39 PM
2nd on a melonite Wylde barrel. I thought there would be obsolecense in 4150 cmv when armalite said a while back on high heat microcracking.

dieselpower
12-17-2011, 6:46 PM
2nd on a melonite Wylde barrel. I thought there would be obsolecense in 4150 cmv when armalite said a while back on high heat microcracking.

so did I. the micro-fractures sealed the deal for me. After that I saw no advantage to 4150CMV that 4140CM wasn't giving me. I am not fighting hordes of Nazi Zombies invading my house. 4140CM is fine.

I have tried to convince people here of this known flaw, but the fantasy of carbine fighting tactical response and carbine classes, SEAL operator training makes some guys a bit childish. many think you must have a 4150CMV or your firearm is just a toy gun. Ask them about the AUG, FAL/FN or AK47 with their 4140CM barrels and they leave the thread without responding. They don't want to hear the truth.

Cokebottle
12-17-2011, 7:21 PM
They don't want to hear the truth.
(not saying this applies to you)
Or in some cases they tire of the same old battles that they know there is no winning because some feel that saying something loud enough and often enough makes it true ;)


Has "the chart" been updated yet now that Colt is again an option for California? :D

dieselpower
12-17-2011, 7:46 PM
(not saying this applies to you)
Or in some cases they tire of the same old battles that they know there is no winning because some feel that saying something loud enough and often enough makes it true ;)


Has "the chart" been updated yet now that Colt is again an option for California? :D

Coke, what makes it true is science and fact. If you have a problem with that, I am sorry. Maybe some people (not saying this applies to you) need to take a science class at the community collage. Yes it like talking to the wall with many of the membership here. I continue to do it because many come here to find real information. I provide that. I will say the same thing 1,000,000 times in varying ways since everyday new members ask the same question.

Half the problem is that stupid chart which is filled with BS.

ocabj
12-17-2011, 7:59 PM
The Wylde chamber has a longer leade and freebore dimension.So you can shoot 556 with more accuracy.I do not understand why you take that gain away with chrome lining?

Actually, 5.56 NATO has more freebore than Wylde.

The Wylde runs a bit tighter, which is why when you try to seat an 80gr SMK to the lands in a Wylde vs 5.56 NATO, the overall length of the cartridge is going to be longer with 5.56 NATO.

If you're not shooting competition High Power Service Rifle, I'd get 5.56 NATO over .223 Wylde. For a 'field' gun, I'd want 5.56 NATO for less issues with ammo (e.g. tight chamber on 'loose' ammo). The primary reason we High Power shooter use .223 Wylde is because of the long bullets for 600 yard slow fire (e.g. 80gr Sierra Match King, 80gr Sierra VLD, Hornady 75 or 80gr A-Max).

Cokebottle
12-17-2011, 8:19 PM
Coke, what makes it true is science and fact. If you have a problem with that, I am sorry. Maybe some people (not saying this applies to you) need to take a science class at the community collage. Yes it like talking to the wall with many of the membership here. I continue to do it because many come here to find real information. I provide that. I will say the same thing 1,000,000 times in varying ways since everyday new members ask the same question.

Half the problem is that stupid chart which is filled with BS.
100% with you on the chart.

I won't even pretend to disagree with you on the metallurgical issues because I have absolutely zero knowledge on that aspect of barrel construction beyond Cro-Mo, chrome-lined, and stainless.
There's a few thing I'll disagree with you on, but this area is not one of them.

Any truth to the rumor I heard that BCM changed barrel sources and that has required an update of the fanboi properties chart?

steve92407
12-17-2011, 8:29 PM
Honestly Coke have you met some of these secret ex feds here at the range.last one i met was 300lbs and wearing a dea load out filled with 10/30s.he had no idea what a DSS agent is and told me FLETC was at Fort Bragg. Long way from Georgia.
me retired and bored i would rather argue with gear heads and play with my hotrods.

dieselpower
12-17-2011, 9:04 PM
100% with you on the chart.

I won't even pretend to disagree with you on the metallurgical issues because I have absolutely zero knowledge on that aspect of barrel construction beyond Cro-Mo, chrome-lined, and stainless.
There's a few thing I'll disagree with you on, but this area is not one of them.

Any truth to the rumor I heard that BCM changed barrel sources and that has required an update of the fanboi properties chart?

not that I know of, but that would be a step in the right direction.

the AR15 industry is stalled in place due to the "chart" monkeys. manufacturers only see dollar signs. the only way we are getting better barrels and new tech is if they know people want it and will buy it. we can not do that with 1,000,000 mall ninjas screaming for 4150CMV with a M203 cutouts to mount their flare launchers...

Cokebottle
12-17-2011, 9:11 PM
Bingo.

Same with twist rates.
Personally, I feel that 1:9 is a superior "do it all" twist rate for anyone who won't be going into combat.
It'll handle 55gr nicely, doesn't overspin the 45gr varmint rounds by too much, and who is using anything over 62gr for plinking?

But "mil spec" is 1:7, so the fanbois want 1:7, so Daniel and the rest of the "respected" manufacturers make 1:7.
If you want a 1:9, you're stuck with RRA, Bushmaster, Stag, or YHM if you can find someone that stocks the 1:9 (and my guess would be that all of the above are actually RRA barrels).

Noah3683
12-17-2011, 9:28 PM
Bingo.

Same with twist rates.
Personally, I feel that 1:9 is a superior "do it all" twist rate for anyone who won't be going into combat.
It'll handle 55gr nicely, doesn't overspin the 45gr varmint rounds by too much, and who is using anything over 62gr for plinking?

But "mil spec" is 1:7, so the fanbois want 1:7, so Daniel and the rest of the "respected" manufacturers make 1:7.
If you want a 1:9, you're stuck with RRA, Bushmaster, Stag, or YHM if you can find someone that stocks the 1:9 (and my guess would be that all of the above are actually RRA barrels).
Colt has a 1:9 ;) I actually read a response from DD somewhere that they were looking into other twist rates down the line as well. I don't shoot anything under 55gr anyway, and I also agree that not enough of the better mfg's have other options. The 1:7 works for my needs but still isn't fully ideal and the whole "these guys can't even live up to the TDP" arguments are getting really old. Yes there are better made rifles on many fronts than the run of the mill Colt, and it's a shame those companies like DD, LMT, Noveske IMO haven't further expanded on other possibilities. They simply see what everyone wants to simulate so that's what they sell.

Mail Clerk
12-18-2011, 8:50 AM
I've read from books that non-chromed lined barrels doesn't need to be squeaky clean to be accurate. One barrel I have just need more dwell time using the solvent to do the work for you.

If you bench rest shoot like I do more often with my bolt or semi I clean more often that shoot. It's your final cleaning before you leave the range is what counts.

Cleaning a chrome lined barrel take just a few minuted to squart gun scrubber in it to flush out the fouling and push a couple dry patches through it.

3GunFunShooter
12-18-2011, 9:03 AM
JP Rifles use the Wylde chamber. Love the stainless steel, 1/8" twist. Very accurate with the right ammo. I have gotten groups of 1" at 300 yards with Black Hills 5.56, 77 gr. SMK
ammo. (not the red or blue box 223, the white box 5.56)

drunktank
12-18-2011, 9:09 AM
I don't notice much more cleaning involved with non-chrome lined barrels. However, this is only after several hundred rounds fired through AR's. Either way, will still shoot sub-moa with a tight nut behind the trigger. YMMV, but it seems like the online chairborne rangers like to blow things out of proportion.

missiontrails
12-18-2011, 9:46 AM
ARP?

http://ar15performance.com/

Solid and accurate barrels. Melonited, not chrome lined, 1/8, Wylde.......... Good muzzle devices also.

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd451/dehlers1/ARP2.jpg

dieselpower
12-18-2011, 9:51 AM
I don't notice much more cleaning involved with non-chrome lined barrels. However, this is only after several hundred rounds fired through AR's. Either way, will still shoot sub-moa with a tight nut behind the trigger. YMMV, but it seems like the online chairborne rangers like to blow things out of proportion.

Its not really us Chairborne Rangers doing the talking, its the US Military. They require Chrome lined because Soldiers have an allergic reaction to cleaning their rifles.. the military knows this so wants CL to cut down on the fouled barrel problem that results from idiot with a gun syndrome.

Eargasm
12-20-2011, 8:51 AM
Those are NOT chrome lined wylde barrels. :(

The 20" is Wylde/Chrome Lined.

http://i.imgur.com/ee7q0.png

You might also check White Oak, they make barrels chambered for .223 Wylde.

HK Dave
12-20-2011, 9:00 AM
http://ar15performance.com/

Solid and accurate barrels. Melonited, not chrome lined, 1/8, Wylde.......... Good muzzle devices also.

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd451/dehlers1/ARP2.jpg

http://ar15performance.com/inc/sdetail/968/4307

Nice, thanks for the link. I'd be willing to give this barrel a shot. Any accuracy reports?

nani
12-20-2011, 10:26 AM
http://ar15performance.com/

Solid and accurate barrels. Melonited, not chrome lined, 1/8, Wylde.......... Good muzzle devices also.

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd451/dehlers1/ARP2.jpg

My pocketbook hates your guts :mad:

:p

HK Dave
12-20-2011, 10:46 AM
The 20" is Wylde/Chrome Lined.

http://i.imgur.com/ee7q0.png

You might also check White Oak, they make barrels chambered for .223 Wylde.

Just spoke to RRA, they do indeed have a chrome lined Wylde barrel. As soon as I asked for it, they immediately responded with, "But you will lose all the accuracy potential of the Wylde barrel since it is chrome lined".

LOL way to sell your stuff RRA. :P

Agent Tikki
12-20-2011, 11:19 AM
Hey guys, just want to get some clarification on the 223 Wylde chamber. I have heard that you can shoot .223 in a 5.56 marked barrel, but not 5.56 in a .223 marked barrel. I understand the difference in pressure from the 2 calibers. I'm looking at a 223 Wylde chamber upper and want to make sure what is safe to shoot, can you shoot both calibers without having to worry about the excessive pressure with the 5.56 caliber? Thanks in advance.

YES.

Jpach
12-20-2011, 11:27 AM
http://ar15performance.com/inc/sdetail/968/4307

Nice, thanks for the link. I'd be willing to give this barrel a shot. Any accuracy reports?

I had a 16" 1:8 .223 Wylde ARP barrel before and it shot fairly well with just crap ammo. I would call it an MOA or sub-MOA capable barrel.

ARP has great customer service and I like that they provide melonite barrels, but I ended up selling mine.

My barrel came with a few deep dings on it (no biggie), it kept popping primers, and when I got a replacement bolt I sold it to a buddy. After 2 mags of Wolf .223, it had an FTE and the case was stuck in there for the remainder of our Mojave camping trip. He sold it sometime after.

Perhaps I got unlucky and received a bad barrel and bolt, but from my experience I wouldn't trust my life on the ARP barrels. Hopefully they have changed things since I ordered from them.

FFShooter23
12-20-2011, 11:58 AM
This is what I use. So far approx. 500 rds through it and so far so good.
http://shop.nordiccomp.com/Wilson-Nordic-AR-Rifle-Barrel-Stainless-16-BBL-223-16M-WIL.htm