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BP707
12-16-2011, 6:05 PM
I am looking to buy an AK here in a few days, I went to a local gun shop here in the north bay and found a shop that had about 5 different AK's in stock.One caught my eye it was a Kassner AK the asking price was $900 plus tax and dros. I was told the gun was unfired and built in 1975. The whole unfired and built over 35 years ago seems a little hard to believe. What should I be expecting and looking for in an AK for about $1000 out the door?

submaniac
12-16-2011, 6:17 PM
Actually, that Kassner doesn't sound bad and doesn't sound like a bad price to me either. I mean you could get an actual RUSSIAN made Ak-47 for cheaper, but what you're talking about would be a collector's gun. I didn't know nothing about it til I googled it after you posted. If it were a Kassner, it would have to be very old. There's a thread on it here: http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=37709

Apparently they are a Hungarian made AK variant that "slipped through" at a time that Hungarian imports were not allowed. The BATF stopped it, and the company went belly up, and afterwards the importation of "military style" guns was banned.
I found a picture of one here: http://www.gunauction.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=7354599

The cool thing about it is this: alot of the AK's made now are "cut up" into pieces and then the parts are put onto a U.S. made receiver. These early imports are made on the actual Hungarian (FEG) receiver, and left the factory that way (in other words it wasn't butchered).

NorCalK9.com
12-16-2011, 6:23 PM
Get it! And if you dont pm me the gun store name n i'll go get it

MrPlink
12-16-2011, 6:27 PM
Very cool, do it!

zombiescanlearn
12-16-2011, 6:38 PM
I am looking to buy an AK here in a few days, I went to a local gun shop here in the north bay and found a shop that had about 5 different AK's in stock.One caught my eye it was a Kassner AK the asking price was $900 plus tax and dros. I was told the gun was unfired and built in 1975. The whole unfired and built over 35 years ago seems a little hard to believe. What should I be expecting and looking for in an AK for about $1000 out the door?

I just got a Romanian AK, it was built in the 1960s'. So, that "built over 35 years ago" seems plausible. I 'm new to whole AK thing but $1000 seems like a whole lot of money for an AK. I got mine by swaping it with another Calgunner for my FNP9 pistol. Doesn't it sound expensive? Anyone?

zombiescanlearn
12-16-2011, 6:40 PM
Actually, that Kassner doesn't sound bad and doesn't sound like a bad price to me either. I mean you could get an actual RUSSIAN made Ak-47 for cheaper, but what you're talking about would be a collector's gun. I didn't know nothing about it til I googled it after you posted. If it were a Kassner, it would have to be very old. There's a thread on it here: http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=37709

Apparently they are a Hungarian made AK variant that "slipped through" at a time that Hungarian imports were not allowed. The BATF stopped it, and the company went belly up, and afterwards the importation of "military style" guns was banned.
I found a picture of one here: http://www.gunauction.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=7354599

The cool thing about it is this: alot of the AK's made now are "cut up" into pieces and then the parts are put onto a U.S. made receiver. These early imports are made on the actual Hungarian (FEG) receiver, and left the factory that way (in other words it wasn't butchered).

I guess the question to ask is "are you a collector or are you going ot put that thing to use?" IMHO, if you're planning to put that rifle to use and you're going to spend that kind of money, get an AR. I wouldn't spend more than $500 on an AK. Again, that's only my two cents.

BP707
12-16-2011, 6:52 PM
I have2 Ar's and looking for something a little different i. I will go by again tomorrow. How can I be sure this gun is not " butchered"?

69Mach1
12-16-2011, 6:59 PM
What time are you getting there? PM me when you do.

Are you sure it say's "Kassnar" on there?

Was there a thumbhole stock?

Will he ship to my FFL? j/k :)

submaniac
12-16-2011, 7:03 PM
I have2 Ar's and looking for something a little different i. I will go by again tomorrow. How can I be sure this gun is not " butchered"?

http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/7003182448/7354599/761ffe385579963351851ab72439a22d.jpg

Look on the receiver to see where it is made. It should say "Made in Hungary" and have the "FEG" on it. That means that the ENTIRE gun was made in Hungary (receiver too) and it entered the U.S. in "military" config.

Look at the rear of the receiver to see if it actually says Kassnar too:
http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/7003182448/7354599/58c049cc42b5d2b3617ec4fa859fde74.jpg

If you are looking for an AK with collector appeal, this has it. If you are looking just to have an AK, I would suggest one of these dealies: http://www.classicarms.us/semi-auto%20rifles.htm

Classicarms and other places (I would look for a Cali dealer to avoid transfer fees) has the Saiga (Russian made) in military config (though it was converted after import for less than $500.

I guess it is a choice if you are a connoisseur or not. You can buy a U.S. stratocaster for $1k or a Korean one for $200. You can spend $500 (or way more) for a bottle of wine, or $5 for a box. Depends on what you want. If you want an extra "coolness" factor, then expect to pay a bit more. I should also add that I have seen people ask way more than $900 for a pre-ban gun made on an actual foreign receiver with the legitimate commie markings.

ChaneRZ
12-16-2011, 7:36 PM
do itttt

Arnelcheeze
12-16-2011, 8:05 PM
get it!

CSACANNONEER
12-16-2011, 8:14 PM
I just got a Romanian AK, it was built in the 1960s'. So, that "built over 35 years ago" seems plausible. I 'm new to whole AK thing but $1000 seems like a whole lot of money for an AK. I got mine by swaping it with another Calgunner for my FNP9 pistol. Doesn't it sound expensive? Anyone?

DO you really have a 1960's Romanian? Or, do you have a modern gun built from demilled 1960's parts? I'm willing to bet you have a newly manufactured rifle.

zombiescanlearn
12-16-2011, 8:47 PM
DO you really have a 1960's Romanian? Or, do you have a modern gun built from demilled 1960's parts? I'm willing to bet you have a newly manufactured rifle.

My 10-day wait is over on Monday, I'll take a closer look when I get it home, but I suspect you're right.

MrPlink
12-16-2011, 10:49 PM
My 10-day wait is over on Monday, I'll take a closer look when I get it home, but I suspect you're right.

WASR Im guessing?
Not really 1960 if so

and how can you tell people not to spend over 500 on an AK when you dont even own one yet?

zfields
12-16-2011, 11:00 PM
There is plenty of AKs over 1k I would pick up in a heartbeat.

MrPlink
12-17-2011, 12:00 AM
There is plenty of AKs over 1k I would pick up in a heartbeat.

oh yeah, no doubt. Most of em are not legal here for various reasons....
SBR krinks, transferable FA models, most Norincos etc etc

NorCalK9.com
12-17-2011, 8:42 AM
I guess the question to ask is "are you a collector or are you going ot put that thing to use?" IMHO, if you're planning to put that rifle to use and you're going to spend that kind of money, get an AR. I wouldn't spend more than $500 on an AK. Again, that's only my two cents.

Well I guess the same could be said for me except opposite. I'd spwnd 900 on that kassnar but would only spend about 500 on an ar,
Oops sorry I lied I dont want an AR.
Op remember my pm PLEASE.

zombiescanlearn
12-17-2011, 8:50 AM
and how can you tell people not to spend over 500 on an AK when you dont even own one yet?

I did say "IMHO". You know what they say about that :D we all have one.

NorCalK9.com
12-17-2011, 8:53 AM
Double post

wash
12-17-2011, 9:09 AM
Some rifles have collector value because of when and how they were imported. For example, Poyer import L1A1 FALs. A gun that's maybe worth $900 becomes $3,000 because it was assembled in Australia and came in to the country whole.

I would really like to see the bogus import restrictions dropped do that we can shop the arms markets of the world and buy a crate of FALs or AKs or M1 Garands without begging for permission to bring it in, cutting receivers or demiling barrels.

BP707
12-17-2011, 9:21 AM
I went back and the one I was looking at is a centry ak from 35 years ago not a kassnar. Made in Romania, junk?

CSACANNONEER
12-17-2011, 9:47 AM
I went back and the one I was looking at is a centry ak from 35 years ago not a kassnar. Made in Romania, junk?

No, if it was really made in Romania 35 years ago, it sure isn't junk and it probably has some collector's value too. However, if it's a Century built gun built on a US reciever using 35 year old parts, it's not worth more than the parts and something for assembly. The date on the trunion is not always the date the gun was made.

zfields
12-17-2011, 9:52 AM
I went back and the one I was looking at is a centry ak from 35 years ago not a kassnar. Made in Romania, junk?

It sure as hell isnt worth 900 bucks.

CAI rifles run around 450ish I think in CA.

Ive seen them here in TX for about 400.

BP707
12-17-2011, 9:54 AM
So look at the receiver and make sure it says made in Romania? I am perfectly fine spending900 on an ak I just dont want to get ripped off to say the least.

RobGR
12-17-2011, 10:15 AM
So look at the receiver and make sure it says made in Romania? I am perfectly fine spending900 on an ak I just dont want to get ripped off to say the least.

Yes, like the pictures posted above and in the link I posted below.

Just did a google search and found a Kassner Underfolder that went for $995.00 in April 16, 2006. http://www.gunauction.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=7354599 (what a beautiful Ak!)

Sorry, might have missed your response to Mach's question, was it an underfolder of a wood stock?

Either way, I wouldn't hesitate to buy it if I had the money, but I would definitely look over it thoroughly. Do a youtube search on how to do a basic field strip if you have never handled an AK or simply ask the store employee to pop off the dust cover for you to take a look at the internals, make sure there's no rust, dirt and carbon build up etc is fine and will clean off, just look for rust around the chamber/barrel/bolt.

RobGR
12-17-2011, 10:20 AM
What a find if it is legit. And post pics if you buy it.

69Mach1
12-17-2011, 10:22 AM
I went back and the one I was looking at is a centry ak from 35 years ago not a kassnar. Made in Romania, junk?

Who keeps telling you its a Kassnar?

No way someone would be selling a stock Romanian AK for $900!

RobGR
12-17-2011, 10:42 AM
Ah. A Century..... meh, most definitely not worth $900. Sorry I missed that post, I just got all excited.... I am supremely disappointed for you. A Century is nothing special, it's an AK, it shoots and def not worth $900. They sell between $450 - $600 usually and depending where you are shopping. You can get them at Turners.

But look at the receiver marks as posted above by submaniac. And if it's a Century, it'll say Century. There's plenty of threads about Century's on Calguns and other sites.

BP707
12-17-2011, 12:40 PM
Ahhh good to know thanks for the heads up . I want to get an ak for $600 to $1000 but want a quality ak not some junk. That went to triple A's sporting goods in Vallejo .they had a aersonal ak with Romanian parys for 600 and a Russian siaga for 899. Both had us made receivers, any other stores to check out? Looks like this won't be a easy process to get an ak ?

CSACANNONEER
12-17-2011, 12:42 PM
A russian Saiga does not have a US made receiver.

zfields
12-17-2011, 12:43 PM
wait what? A Saiga with a US receiver? Thats a new one.

Arsernals are built off of Saigas, so shouldnt have any romanian parts.

DavidRSA
12-17-2011, 12:45 PM
Why dont you get this Saiga - the front end is "AK ready" and doesnt need conversion. The back end does, but its really simple. Plus its brand new, and made in the Izhmash factory in Russia where the actual Kalashnikovs are made. $459 plus tax/dros and then another $100+ depending on how you want to gussy up the rear.

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct1018.aspx

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/data/default/images/catalog/large/IZ132MODEL2.jpg

xSARSx
12-17-2011, 1:35 PM
Ahhh good to know thanks for the heads up . I want to get an ak for $600 to $1000 but want a quality ak not some junk. That went to triple A's sporting goods in Vallejo .they had a aersonal ak with Romanian parys for 600 and a Russian siaga for 899. Both had us made receivers, any other stores to check out? Looks like this won't be a easy process to get an ak ?



i think you are better off buying it online. if you want a quality ak rifle and willing to spend 1000 for it give atlanticfirearms.com a try. buy the arsenal ak rifle or just buy saiga rifle and convert it yourself... someone was bound to say it :D

RobGR
12-17-2011, 2:56 PM
So the shop dude was probably saying Wassenaar as in WASR, not Kassner.

BP707, just start doing some basic google searches. First, narrow down your caliber, 7.62x39 (AK47) or 5.45x39 (AK74), do a search on the pros and cons. I'm assuming your ARs are 223/556, so maybe stick with the traditional AK47 7.62x39.

Check out Atlantic, they have Cali legal AKs, but again, also do some more general internet and calgun searches on the subject. There's lots of info, but that's what it'll take to get the firearm you will be satisfied with. Whatever you do, just do not pick up an IO Casar. Then we have Century, while their imports are affordable, they're not great nor bad. However, I do love shooting my Draco pistol and it is 100% built in Romania (due to importation laws etc), imported by Century. Now Century builds (parts kit, US receiver, which you could do yourself at an AK build party, check the gunsmith section on here) are notorious for QC issues, you get a lemon or you don't. No Century's are worth $900, but I'm guessing it might have been on a milled receiver on a 1975 parts kit. Stamped receivers are tried and test, you do not need a milled, hey, unless you want one of course.

Characteristics and features to consider, chrome lined barrel (definitely), do you want traditional wood furniture, matching parts numbers from the builds, do you want to tacticool it out (frowned upon, but whatevr makes you happy).

Alrighty, have fun.

submaniac
12-17-2011, 2:58 PM
OK, Submaniac will need to step in to regulate:

To the OP: You WILL purchase THIS Rifle:

http://www.classicarms.us/images/Saiga-Ak.jpg

It is $449 here http://www.classicarms.us/semi-auto%20rifles.htm

I forgot, but check the vendors section on calguns and buy from one of our vendors to support em and avoid the FFL transfer fees.

What we are talking about with the receivers is that it became illegal to import the Ak's with the pistol grip (military configuration). So what has been happening is either (1) the receivers have been torch cut, imported, and assembled on a U.S. made receiver or (2) the rifles are imported without a pistol grip in "sporting rifle" configuration and then converted to military style config by adding the pistol grip. Why everyone was hot and heavy on the Kassnar was because that was imported before the legal ban, when it was legal to import a rifle, whole and unaltered, from the country of origin.

The link I just posted is a Russian made AK made by Izmash, which is the same factory makes the actual Russian military issue rifles. So this particular rifle is not junk. It was imported as a sporting rifle, and the pistol grip was added later. Just buy this one. You won't have any problems.

RobGR
12-17-2011, 3:38 PM
OK, Submaniac will need to step in to regulate:

To the OP: You WILL purchase THIS Rifle:

It is $449 here http://www.classicarms.us/semi-auto%20rifles.htm


hahha, nicely done, great option indeed. And here's a thread for the OP to look at concerning upgrades - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=505986 And I dare say, there are some great tacticool upgrades on it, namely, post # 33.

zfields
12-17-2011, 8:27 PM
OK, Submaniac will need to step in to regulate:

To the OP: You WILL purchase THIS Rifle:

http://www.classicarms.us/images/Saiga-Ak.jpg

It is $449 here http://www.classicarms.us/semi-auto%20rifles.htm

I forgot, but check the vendors section on calguns and buy from one of our vendors to support em and avoid the FFL transfer fees.

What we are talking about with the receivers is that it became illegal to import the Ak's with the pistol grip (military configuration). So what has been happening is either (1) the receivers have been torch cut, imported, and assembled on a U.S. made receiver or (2) the rifles are imported without a pistol grip in "sporting rifle" configuration and then converted to military style config by adding the pistol grip. Why everyone was hot and heavy on the Kassnar was because that was imported before the legal ban, when it was legal to import a rifle, whole and unaltered, from the country of origin.

The link I just posted is a Russian made AK made by Izmash, which is the same factory makes the actual Russian military issue rifles. So this particular rifle is not junk. It was imported as a sporting rifle, and the pistol grip was added later. Just buy this one. You won't have any problems.

Classic arms doesn't ship to CA.

Sent from my Incredible 2

NorCalK9.com
12-18-2011, 8:58 AM
That really sux bud. But wasr's arent jusnk but theyre not worth 900 either.
If I was in your boat now i'd do 1 of 2 things
1.. Build the kit you want. You can get a REALLY nice krink kit and parts and build a nicer rifle than you could buy.
Or
2.. Check out atlantic firearms and buy a prebuilt ak from them.
3.. You can buy my saiga 308 already converted for you and as a gift i'll give you 150 rounds lol