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M1NM
12-14-2011, 6:28 PM
Looking to build AR - which is the best grip to use?

zfields
12-14-2011, 6:28 PM
I prefer the wrap, monsterman grip angle is a bit funky to me.

Cali-Shooter
12-14-2011, 6:29 PM
If you can afford it, try your hand at both, and see which one fits your hand. I prefer the MMG for AR's, and kydex grip wraps for AK's.

vintagearms
12-14-2011, 6:38 PM
Buy both and decide. Everone is different. I did the same thing, and eventually sold the MM and kept the SolarTactical grip. Just recently purchased an exilemachine grip but havent had the time to test that one out.

Full Clip
12-14-2011, 6:42 PM
I've go two MMed ARs and two MMed AKs. No complaints at all.

IrishPirate
12-14-2011, 6:52 PM
personally like the wrap-around's but don't hate the MM's.

858casper858
12-14-2011, 7:20 PM
I tried and liked both but went with the grip wrap due to it being more aesthetically pleasing. Just MHO.

Exile Machine
12-14-2011, 7:35 PM
Looking to build AR - which is the best grip to use?

Just slightly biased here but do please consider the most configurable (https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/pages/hammerhead-configurations-2.html) and least expensive featureless grip on the market... The Exile Machine Hammerhead grip. (https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/exile-machine-hammerhead-ar-15-grip-black-1.html)

This week only we're also including a FREE PMAG rebuild kit with your purchase (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=510327).

https://exilemachine.net/images/IMG_7138.JPG

http://www.exilemachine.net/shop/images/T/TYPE_III.JPG

chesterthehero
12-14-2011, 7:53 PM
+1 for the exile machine hammerhead.. it is by far the most retarded looking however hands down it is also the most comfortable.. it holds like a standard rifle thats not quite right.. a bit of filing and sanding can soften the shap a bit more...

MM has got to be one of the most uncomfortable grips ive ever used.. wraps are decent but the hold is still not very good

Flying Bones
12-14-2011, 7:54 PM
Just got my Exile Machine Hammerhead...I'll never go back. This thing is great.

The best part about the Hammerhead: When you need to grab the Rifle with one hand, you can still wrap your thumb around the top. This is huge because you can tightly secure the rifle with just one hand.

Other highlights:
Inexpensive
Extremely comfortable when using a standard "rifle stock" type grip.

Cali-Shooter
12-14-2011, 7:57 PM
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/902/pict0022dt.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/221/pict0022dt.jpg/)

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/5604/pict0001rd.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/341/pict0001rd.jpg/)

TwoAsoapbox
12-14-2011, 8:05 PM
Unless you're trying to do the featureless thing (which I dont recommend) definitely go with the wrap around. There are lots of great options on the market and with a bullet button you dont have to worry about the legality of a pistol grip or other "evil features" like adjustable butt stock and a bayonet lug etc.

vintagearms
12-14-2011, 8:13 PM
Unless you're trying to do the featureless thing (which I dont recommend) definitely go with the wrap around. There are lots of great options on the market and with a bullet button you dont have to worry about the legality of a pistol grip or other "evil features" like adjustable butt stock and a bayonet lug etc.

bayo lug is completely useless

adjust buttstock is not completely useless, but unless your getting in and out of a vehicle, your going to be keeping it in one place anyway.

having the ability to utilize standard capacity mags is priceless....thats one of the biggest reason to go featureless.

CSACANNONEER
12-14-2011, 8:14 PM
I say "try all three, exile, MM and gripwraps".

Unless you're trying to do the featureless thing (which I dont recommend) definitely go with the wrap around. There are lots of great options on the market and with a bullet button you dont have to worry about the legality of a pistol grip or other "evil features" like adjustable butt stock and a bayonet lug etc.

:confused::confused: The only reason to use either would be to go featureless. Why don't you recommend featureless rifles??????? Since when have bayonet lugs been an "evil feature" in California???? I suggest that you learn the laws a little better before trying to give advise.

TwoAsoapbox
12-14-2011, 8:25 PM
Wow, people can be such a-holes on here. Sorry for spreading miss information man but it was on this forum that I heard that bayos are an evil feature on rifles. I'll look into it further. I agree that bayonet lugs are useless but they come standard on a lot of uppers. I guess you can hack saw them off...but apparently they arent an evil feature so its a moot point.

Im not going to get into the featureless thing nor using "pre-ban" 30s. To me its treading a little too close to the line and thats all Im gonna say. A guy should be allowed to voice his opinion without being chastised and others can take what they want from it.

jonc
12-14-2011, 8:30 PM
I have both I think
wraparound feels better

zfields
12-14-2011, 8:31 PM
Its not treading near the line, Its following the law.


Tell me, do you drive 50 mph, since 64mph is treading near the line?

vintagearms
12-14-2011, 8:32 PM
Wow, people can be such a-holes on here. Sorry for spreading miss information man but it was on this forum that I heard that bayos are an evil feature on rifles. I'll look into it further.

You were just confusing the Federal AWB (which has expired) with the CA one, thats all. ;)

Flying Bones
12-14-2011, 8:36 PM
...forget about it...OP do your thing, and don't pay any bother to new guys who think that following the law is somehow too close to not following the Law.

CSACANNONEER
12-14-2011, 8:37 PM
Wow, people can be such a-holes on here. Sorry for spreading miss information man but it was on this forum that I heard that bayos are an evil feature on rifles. I'll look into it further. I agree that bayonet lugs are useless but they come standard on a lot of uppers. I guess you can hack saw them off...but apparently they arent an evil feature so its a moot point.

Im not going to get into the featureless thing nor using "pre-ban" 30s. To me its treading a little too close to the line and thats all Im gonna say. A guy should be allowed to voice his opinion without being chastised and others can take what they want from it.

Instead of just reading something on a forum and believing it, I suggest that you read the actual text of the law. Ca AW laws have NEVER even mentioned bayo lugs.

As far as featureless builds go, I'm just the opposite, I think that features and a fixed magazine is a lot closers to the line. If a mag lock fails, malfunctions or someone accidently inserts a +10 round mag, it's a felony! One can't make that mistake with any featureless gun including rifles like SU16, stock mini 14s, etc. Many of us here are old enough to have stockpiles of old magazine and we like to use them. I still own +10 round mags that I don't have guns for but, someday, I might. Now, for those under the age of 12, I would agree with you. It might be hard to explain how a 12 year old or younger person could have legally come into possession of +10 round mags.

BTW, yea, I agree that I should be able to voice my opinion without being called names. :p But, it looks like you can't understand that. Maybe you should practise what you preach and set a good example for the rest of us to follow.

CSACANNONEER
12-14-2011, 8:42 PM
You were just confusing the Federal AWB (which has expired) with the CA one, thats all. ;)

That law expired over SEVEN YEARS ago. He has only been a member of this forum for about seven weeks. I highly doubt he even knew that there was a Federal AW ban let alone knew anything about it.

TwoAsoapbox
12-14-2011, 8:46 PM
Im going to make this is as simple as possible. AR-15s are on the CA Assault Weapons ban list. We are lucky that the list only specifies a few specific weapons that cannot be owned hence the OLL option. I personally feel that the more featureless rifles with releasable magazines and people using their pre ban 30s runs the risk of pushing for further restrictions in the future. Yes I have ARs but one is a camo predator gun that at a glance you wouldnt even know was an AR and the other is a black and OD carbine that honestly doesnt leave the safe much. I never use 30s under any circumstance. For practice and fun I bought a SW 15-22 at Big 5 for under $500 and its already paid for itself many times over in ammo savings. I can have a releasable mag and all the evil features I want on that.

I know its our right to do/have whatever we want as long as its legal. But in this state we have to remember that it only takes one legislator with a wild hair up their *** to make all AR-15 type rifles illegal. This has been shown many times. The most recent example is when people started to open carry to protest the inability to get a LTC. Look what happened. Once the open carry movement started to get a bunch of negative press by the bias mainstream media a law was passed to ban open carry. Lets just all be careful to not contribute to this happening to ARs. Its that simple. This is one man's opinion...take what you want from it.

TwoAsoapbox
12-14-2011, 8:51 PM
I dont like calling people names just as much as I dont like being chastised. You know nothing about me sir. I have been reading this Forum for years and just recently decided to join. Im already reconsidering this decision. You should follow vintagearms example with his simple post clarifying my confusion instead of the approach that you took. Forums like this are intended to give opinions, share knowledge and hopefully everyone is on the same team even if we dont always agree.

CSACANNONEER
12-14-2011, 9:01 PM
I dont like calling people names just as much as I dont like being chastised. You know nothing about me sir. I have been reading this Forum for years and just recently decided to join. Im already reconsidering this decision. You should follow vintagearms example with his simple post clarifying my confusion instead of the approach that you took. Forums like this are intended to give opinions, share knowledge and hopefully everyone is on the same team even if we dont always agree.

Voicing your opinion is always welcome on this forum but, name calling is against the rules. If you have been here for years like you claim to have been, you'ld know that. Are you regreting your decision because you are incapable of following simple rules?


Now, as far as featureless builds go, they have been around a lot longer than mag locked builds have been. In fact, the first featureless AR15s I saw were in local gun shops back in 1999. They were following the law and selling them without PGs, FHs, bayo lugs (to comply with the Fewderal AWB), adjustable stocks, etc. So, the history of featureless ar15 in Ca is longer than the fixed mag AR15s which originally appeared on the scene in 2002 in the form of the FAB10. If anything, fixed mag ARs are pushing the limits a lot more than featureless builds ever have.

paratroop
12-14-2011, 9:07 PM
and besides, "featureless" builds lets you use the best features of all....DETACHABLE HI-CAPS!

peter95
12-15-2011, 1:11 AM
Mm just recesses a little too rearward, so I chose to go with wrap.

Everyone is different so u gotta try it to see for yourself....

Check out my previous thread... I never believed how comfortable a slip on could be. It was so comfortable that when I shot my friends regular configured ar with pistol grip, I maintained my featureless hold without even knowing until he pointed it out to me....

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=510238

Merc1138
12-15-2011, 1:48 AM
Im going to make this is as simple as possible. AR-15s are on the CA Assault Weapons ban list. We are lucky that the list only specifies a few specific weapons that cannot be owned hence the OLL option. I personally feel that the more featureless rifles with releasable magazines and people using their pre ban 30s runs the risk of pushing for further restrictions in the future. Yes I have ARs but one is a camo predator gun that at a glance you wouldnt even know was an AR and the other is a black and OD carbine that honestly doesnt leave the safe much. I never use 30s under any circumstance. For practice and fun I bought a SW 15-22 at Big 5 for under $500 and its already paid for itself many times over in ammo savings. I can have a releasable mag and all the evil features I want on that.

I know its our right to do/have whatever we want as long as its legal. But in this state we have to remember that it only takes one legislator with a wild hair up their *** to make all AR-15 type rifles illegal. This has been shown many times. The most recent example is when people started to open carry to protest the inability to get a LTC. Look what happened. Once the open carry movement started to get a bunch of negative press by the bias mainstream media a law was passed to ban open carry. Lets just all be careful to not contribute to this happening to ARs. Its that simple. This is one man's opinion...take what you want from it.

What? Dude, stop with the FUD.

First of all, a malfunctioning mag release on a featureless rifle can't cause a felony. A malfunctioning mag release/lock on a rifle with features can cause a felony.

Second, with a featureless there is absolutely no chance whatsoever of inserting the wrong size mag and causing a felony, or having whatever blocking system is in the mag fail and cause a felony AW charge.

Third, featureless builds have existed for quite a while. The UOC movement wound up getting UOC banned because they kept throwing it in people's faces. Unless people are walking the streets of California open carrying featureless ARs and showing the news cameras and cops that they can press the mag button with their finger over and over while screaming that they know their rights, there isn't going to be a problem with it.

With your way of thinking(based off of what you've posted in this thread), a featureless gun like a stock mini-14 w/o a flash hider is somehow going to make CAs gun laws worse, as if a mini-14 wasn't sitting next to an AR at the gun shop when a politician walked in and said "that looks scary, I want to ban it, don't care about that other one over there"(an exaggeration, but the point is clear).

Bobby Ricigliano
12-15-2011, 3:39 AM
The MMG looks and operates great on A2 stock builds.

The grip wrap is preferable (to me) on M4 type builds with pinned telescope stocks.

OP: Never mind the mindless FUD that has been spewed into this thread by folks who heard/read/think/have a buddy who said blah blah....

If you are in possession of legally owned standard cap mags, featureless is the way to go. The brain adapts to change very fast. I catch myself now picking up a standard grip rifle and still not wrapping my thumb around it out of habit.

Bobby Ricigliano
12-15-2011, 3:42 AM
Unless you're trying to do the featureless thing (which I dont recommend) definitely go with the wrap around. There are lots of great options on the market and with a bullet button you dont have to worry about the legality of a pistol grip or other "evil features" like adjustable butt stock and a bayonet lug etc.


Possibly the worst advice ever.

BHPFan
12-15-2011, 4:05 AM
For an AR, either one will be fine. Personally, I like the grip wrap around because you can still retain the natural front angle of the PG. If going with the grip wraparound grip, I'd use a separate spare PG and epoxy it to the wraparound as it can slip off from the grip in order to avoid legal issues. Another reason why I go with the grip wrap around is its versatility of good fit on either A2 stock or (fixed and pinned) M4 stock while MMG fits A2 stock best.

tenpercentfirearms
12-15-2011, 5:37 AM
Unless you're trying to do the featureless thing (which I dont recommend) definitely go with the wrap around. There are lots of great options on the market and with a bullet button you dont have to worry about the legality of a pistol grip or other "evil features" like adjustable butt stock and a bayonet lug etc.

You might want to recommend less and read more.

If you have lawfully possessed standard capacity magazines, a featureless rifle is nearly an obligation to own in this state. Everyone with lawfully possessed standard capacity magazines should own a featureless rifle.

Hell I have at least five of them. And as has been stated they are no more of a legal risk than any of my other lawfully possessed firearms.

Sorry twoasoapbox, but you keep throwing out the fail in this thread. You might want to just learn from this one and move on . Not only did you not know that bayonet lugs are not evil features, but you also incorrectly opined that a featureless firearm is somehow pushing the envelope more than a fixed magazine rifle. This has never been the case and it is quite the opposite. And you didn't even bother to tell the guy which grip he preferred.

I have Monsterman Grips on all of my rifles.

jonjonkills101
12-15-2011, 10:05 AM
im not into the whole featureless thing, but i was just curious...why don't you try something like this?

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/217096/bell-and-carlson-thumbhole-buttstock-ar-15-synthetic-textured-black

and then block the thumb holes with wrap? it seems like it would look real clean as a featureless setup. kinda reminds me of SL8 featureless builds where they just block the thumb hole the same way.

Sicarius
12-15-2011, 12:28 PM
Im going to make this is as simple as possible. AR-15s are on the CA Assault Weapons ban list. We are lucky that the list only specifies a few specific weapons that cannot be owned hence the OLL option. I personally feel that the more featureless rifles with releasable magazines and people using their pre ban 30s runs the risk of pushing for further restrictions in the future. Yes I have ARs but one is a camo predator gun that at a glance you wouldnt even know was an AR and the other is a black and OD carbine that honestly doesnt leave the safe much. I never use 30s under any circumstance. For practice and fun I bought a SW 15-22 at Big 5 for under $500 and its already paid for itself many times over in ammo savings. I can have a releasable mag and all the evil features I want on that.

I know its our right to do/have whatever we want as long as its legal. But in this state we have to remember that it only takes one legislator with a wild hair up their *** to make all AR-15 type rifles illegal. This has been shown many times. The most recent example is when people started to open carry to protest the inability to get a LTC. Look what happened. Once the open carry movement started to get a bunch of negative press by the bias mainstream media a law was passed to ban open carry. Lets just all be careful to not contribute to this happening to ARs. Its that simple. This is one man's opinion...take what you want from it.

How was the OP's post related to any political agenda? He asked a very direct and simple question and you replied with a politically fired opinion that was also based on misinformation. You got called out on it then you called people a-holes. Granted some of us can be harsh in our responses but we devote a lot of time and energy to understand this hobby so we can enjoy it and stay out of jail. We do our OWN research and base our opinions on facts and not political agendas and propaganda. There is a forum for political discussion and speculation but here, we deal with facts.

To the OP, as to which one is better, that is entirely up to what fits you better or feels more natural. It is one of those things you will have to try to see. I unfortuantely have not had the opportunity to try exilemachines grip yet but my next featureless will likely sport one. For me, I typically put the grip wraps on the carbines and the MMG on the full size rifles.
Kevin

gemini1
12-15-2011, 3:54 PM
I haven't tried any of these featureless grips, but has there been any discussions or thoughts from the makers/forum members of these grips to add a thumb rest for a more secure hold on the grip?

Exile Machine
12-15-2011, 7:49 PM
I haven't tried any of these featureless grips, but has there been any discussions or thoughts from the makers/forum members of these grips to add a thumb rest for a more secure hold on the grip?

No need for a thumb rest when you can just wrap your hand around the grip. Never deny the use of your opposable thumb if you have a choice.

https://exilemachine.net/images/IMG_7138.JPG

Fate
12-15-2011, 7:59 PM
im not into the whole featureless thing, but i was just curious...why don't you try something like this?

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/217096/bell-and-carlson-thumbhole-buttstock-ar-15-synthetic-textured-black

and then block the thumb holes with wrap? it seems like it would look real clean as a featureless setup. kinda reminds me of SL8 featureless builds where they just block the thumb hole the same way.

Yep the ol' "boat oar." It's been done as a featureless build, there's even pics somewhere in the archives.

Thordo
12-18-2011, 6:00 PM
Thordo here,

I'd like to take this conversation in a different direction for a moment. Is there any penal code or legal precedent established that defines what a rifle grip is as opposed to a pistol grip? If a grip is shaped similar to the "grip portion" of a stock mini 14 for instance combined with all the other features that define a featureless rifle, would it fly? The U-15 stock is similar to what I'm trying to describe but not quite.

Thordo

chesterthehero
12-18-2011, 6:21 PM
yes its something about keeping the thumb above tha action of the trigger.. someone will chime in with thw quoted pc.. theres a good pic with lines drawn on it around somewhre as well

Exile Machine
12-18-2011, 6:23 PM
Is there any penal code or legal precedent established that defines what a rifle grip is as opposed to a pistol grip?

We've got a writeup on our LEGAL page about the definition of the pistol grip, including a couple photos. Scroll down about halfway: https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/pages/california-laws-5.html

Thordo
12-18-2011, 6:29 PM
Thanks!! That's exactly what I needed to know. Confirmed on DOJ website as well.

Thordo

weomi
12-18-2011, 6:55 PM
for what its worth, i love my ugly featureless. i can never forget to bring a tool to remove my mags.

imarangemaster
12-18-2011, 7:05 PM
I prefer the hammerhead on my AR as I have a pinned CAR stock, and can get my hand over the top. I notice no noticeable difference in y ability to use the AR with the hammerhead than with the standard pistol grip. Yes it is ugly, but I care more abou function than good looks.

On my AK, I have a Kydex paddle, though I have a hammerhead and AR grip adapter waiting for me to play with on the AK.

Thordo
12-18-2011, 8:06 PM
Actually I have one more question. What is the definition of a thumbhole stock?

Thordo

RyanOT
12-18-2011, 9:12 PM
easier to show...

http://www.highplainsgunstocks.com/wingtip-thumbhole-example-2.jpg
http://www.accurate-ar15.com/ar15/ASI_thumb_hole_LR_2.gif
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk185/DoughboyRacing/MAK_90.jpg

locosway
12-18-2011, 10:05 PM
Im going to make this is as simple as possible. AR-15s are on the CA Assault Weapons ban list. We are lucky that the list only specifies a few specific weapons that cannot be owned hence the OLL option. I personally feel that the more featureless rifles with releasable magazines and people using their pre ban 30s runs the risk of pushing for further restrictions in the future. Yes I have ARs but one is a camo predator gun that at a glance you wouldnt even know was an AR and the other is a black and OD carbine that honestly doesnt leave the safe much. I never use 30s under any circumstance. For practice and fun I bought a SW 15-22 at Big 5 for under $500 and its already paid for itself many times over in ammo savings. I can have a releasable mag and all the evil features I want on that.

I know its our right to do/have whatever we want as long as its legal. But in this state we have to remember that it only takes one legislator with a wild hair up their *** to make all AR-15 type rifles illegal. This has been shown many times. The most recent example is when people started to open carry to protest the inability to get a LTC. Look what happened. Once the open carry movement started to get a bunch of negative press by the bias mainstream media a law was passed to ban open carry. Lets just all be careful to not contribute to this happening to ARs. Its that simple. This is one man's opinion...take what you want from it.

Why own an AR if you're afraid to use it?

If you don't want to run around like Rambo, that's fine. But some of us here need to nurture the inner Rambo once in a while.

Thordo
12-19-2011, 5:58 AM
easier to show...

http://www.highplainsgunstocks.com/wingtip-thumbhole-example-2.jpg
http://www.accurate-ar15.com/ar15/ASI_thumb_hole_LR_2.gif
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk185/DoughboyRacing/MAK_90.jpg

These are most definitely thumb hole stocks. but after doing more research, it either appears that any open space between the grip and the butt (but still connected to each other) no matter how big is considered, or some manufacturers are just calling it, a thumb hole.

Reading what the PC says about the definition of a pistol grip. I interpret the meaning of a thumb hole to be an accommodation for the thumb to oppose effectively turning the front of the "stock" into a "pistol grip" which allows the web of the hand to come below the top of the exposed trigger. There's no language defining the size of the hole.

Common sense would dictate that "big enough to fit your thumb through" would suffice, BUT we are in CA so all bets are off. So is a space big enough to fit your arm through a thumb hole in the eyes of the powers that be?

Thordo

paratroop
12-19-2011, 8:31 AM
yes. there are some funky skeletonized stocks out there that dont appear to have been made to stick your thumb through, but those are still sonsidered thumb hole stocks. i havent seen any in a while though.

Thordo
12-19-2011, 8:44 AM
yes. there are some funky skeletonized stocks out there that dont appear to have been made to stick your thumb through, but those are still sonsidered thumb hole stocks. i havent seen any in a while though.


Would this be a thumb hole stock? The description calls it one but what is the technical definition of "thumbhole"? I can stick my whole arm through the hole in this stock. http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/blog/2010/03/29

Thordo

peter95
12-19-2011, 9:43 PM
Would this be a thumb hole stock? The description calls it one but what is the technical definition of "thumbhole"? I can stick my whole arm through the hole in this stock. http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/blog/2010/03/29

Thordo

That will not work on a featureless... You can tell the grip looks just like a pistol grip.

It's not difficult guys. If it looks like a grip its most likely not a good idea.
Slip on cover Is the way to go for me.

Went shooting today and after I grabbed my buddies pistol grip ar after shooting my featureless, I was still grabbing his pistol grip like I was holding my featureless....Very comfortable. Those who hate th slip on covers, probably never tried it....

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7009/6496453301_24bc2be549_b.jpg

Vash357
12-19-2011, 9:58 PM
Pistol grip and thumbhole stocks are both features. Needs to be a grip wrap, a monsterman or hammerhead to be a featureless rifle. I use a hammerhead, it's the most practical in my mind. You could use a U15 stock as well, if you could find one...

Thordo
12-20-2011, 4:27 AM
Found the answer I was looking for!! Back to original topic.

Thordo

Cali-Shooter
12-20-2011, 7:08 AM
yes. there are some funky skeletonized stocks out there that dont appear to have been made to stick your thumb through, but those are still sonsidered thumb hole stocks. i havent seen any in a while though.

If those stocks have the hole anywhere near the actual grip where the hand clutches to fire the rifle, it's threading dangerous waters, imo. Even if it were just a finger-sized hole or smaller, you don't want to be nailed by a ridiculous technicality due to even more ridiculous poor wording of the (AWB) law.

If you have pictures of this thumbhole/not a thumbhole stock(s), then we may be able to easier identify if it is Kosher or not. Otherwise, best to play it safe.

paratroop
12-20-2011, 8:48 AM
If those stocks have the hole anywhere near the actual grip where the hand clutches to fire the rifle, it's threading dangerous waters, imo. Even if it were just a finger-sized hole or smaller, you don't want to be nailed by a ridiculous technicality due to even more ridiculous poor wording of the (AWB) law.

If you have pictures of this thumbhole/not a thumbhole stock(s), then we may be able to easier identify if it is Kosher or not. Otherwise, best to play it safe.

to tell you the truth what im thinking about was from an old thread, maybe on an ak pattern rifle. but regardless, im still taking the same stance as you, my featureless has no holes anywhere between the grip and stock. thumbhole, armhole, pinkyhole, its all the same.

3GunFunShooter
12-20-2011, 9:09 AM
I got one of the 1st U-15 stocks that Toolbox came out with, and purchased another one.
I would use the Exile Machine Hammerhead on my next build. I do not like the MM or Wrap style grips for 3 gun competition due to, IMHO the lack of control of the grip. As someone who bought my 1st OLL from Wes at the San Jose Gun Show 6 years ago, when we only had "Two Weeks", I really don't care about what others think about me using my featureless OLL with my preban mags.