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View Full Version : Is this gun california legal? (Preban NDM-86)


virulosity
03-05-2007, 8:32 PM
I noticed it says imported by KSI Pomona, CA.

link:http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=67249131

xenophobe
03-05-2007, 8:47 PM
Not without modification. If you fix the magazine then it would be legal.

ARRRR-15
03-05-2007, 9:20 PM
Looks like those marking on the receiver were put on with a dremel.:p :D

ghost
03-05-2007, 9:23 PM
Not without modification. If you fix the magazine then it would be legal.

or fill in the thumbhole stock so you cant get a pistol grip hold.

Sal
03-05-2007, 9:37 PM
its listed, i know because i REALLY wanted an SVD, but thats the only one i could afford.

Norinco
* 56
* 56 S
81 S (all)
* 84 S
86 (all)
* 86 S
AK-47 (all)
Hunter Rifle
MAK 90
NHM 90, 90-2, 91 Sport
RPK Rifle

virulosity
03-05-2007, 10:02 PM
So even though it was imported by a company in pomona it is banned since it isn't registered?

blkA4alb
03-05-2007, 10:05 PM
So even though it was imported by a company in pomona it is banned since it isn't registered?
It sounds like it is banned by name, as well as by feature.

12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.

Sal
03-06-2007, 1:00 AM
regardless of who imported it, it was made by norinco and is a model 86.

make: norinco model NDM-86

specifically listed, the importer makes no difference on the maker or model.

it is also banned by features.

however with the DOJ approval of listed AR's with welded magazines, you could probably get it into the state if the magazine was permanantly fixed, as in welding it, other than that, i dont see any way to get one here.

if you really want a SVD style rifle look around for a tiger, or a true SVD as they are not listed. the tiger is a SVD with a slightly shorter barrel, no flash hider, and a different stock set, there is even a CA legal stock like a saiga for them. there are a few long barreled tigers out there, and a few tigers with all of the military goodies, but they cost quite a bit more.

bwiese
03-06-2007, 8:35 AM
[Sal: um, the importer can *sometimes* make a difference on the make/model if the importer is referred to as part of the make and/or the actual mfgr is unclear - esp true on imported guns. If the importers are listed as the make or part of the make on the Kasler list, then guns imported/marked differently are different guns (Kalashnikov USA Saiga vs EAA Saiga vs RAAC Saiga is a good example: the DOJ was going to list the EAA Saiga separately before they decided not to list; the Kalashnikov USA Saiga was already banned.)]

Now, back to the Norinco NDM-86 of our discussion:

Statutory law (Roberti-Roos) 12276(a)(11) lists a "Norinco 86S";


11 CCR 5495 requoting of Roberti-Roos lists "Norinco 86 S" (as well as the vague "Made in China 86S") <note spacing differences around 'S'>;


11 CCR 5499 (Kasler list) lists "Norinco 86 (all)";


Nowhere do I see a ban on Norinco "NDM-86S". A Norinco 86S rifle is banned by name. A Norinco NDM-86 rifle is not banned by name - if the rifle specifically says "NDM-86" and not just "86" you are good to go.

Edited to add: I just looked at the photos at the link. This rifle specifically says "Norinco NDM-86".

If the DOJ were so aggrieved by this rifle that they wanted to ban it they would have spent the time and effort to list it and any sister versions properly - either at end of 2000, or if they wanted to list last year. Since they did a poor job in 2000 and retreated from this effort in a well-documented fashion (via creation of AB2728 where they gave up authority to list) that's even more in your favor.

Dealing with gun markings: Norinco "NDM-86" is NOT equal to banned "86S".

This gun would be legal with a CA-compliant features suite.

xenophobe
03-06-2007, 8:57 AM
regardless of who imported it, it was made by norinco and is a model 86.

make: norinco model NDM-86

specifically listed, the importer makes no difference on the maker or model.


Wrong. This is a Norinco Model 86S:

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/8329/type86syi2.jpg

Rob454
03-06-2007, 2:46 PM
3400$ will buy a heck of a lot better rifle than that thing. Looks cool but way way overpriced.
Rob

virulosity
03-06-2007, 3:08 PM
I am not interested in spending $3400 on any rifle right now : )
I was merely intrigued by the fact that the gun was imported by a california based company and is now illegal. I guess when it was imported was a different time than now.

Sal
03-06-2007, 5:03 PM
ah, i was not aware of the norinco 86 was a completely different model, thanks for the input, i guess my previous statements are incorrect.