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View Full Version : Fun times at the range today


ocabj
03-04-2007, 4:51 PM
With all the wind advisories for the Inland area, IFG saw little to no wind today (or yesterday, from what I was told - I should have shot on Sat, too).

Anyway, shot a great first string today in 200 yard (technically 200 meters / 217-218 yards) standing slow fire:

http://www.ocabj.net/gallery/albums/misc_targets/IMG_4849.sized.jpg

BUT, after that, during my second string which was slightly worse (low 90s iirc), the last 2 rounds did this:

http://www.ocabj.net/gallery/albums/handloads_misc/IMG_4846.sized.jpg

The two cases with the head separation came from a batch of 50 that was reloaded 7-8 times. So that brass pretty much went straight to the scrap brass bucket when I got home.

Remember kids: A head separation means the brass has got to go. 2 in a row means the brass definitely has to go! :o

24_minutes_to_1000
03-04-2007, 5:01 PM
Nice target. I'm sure the case failures made things much more interesting.

PanzerAce
03-04-2007, 5:36 PM
I have no experience with case faliures, but is it normal to get that regular pattern?

Alanski56
03-04-2007, 5:38 PM
With all the wind advisories for the Inland area, IFG saw little to no wind today (or yesterday, from what I was told - I should have shot on Sat, too).

Anyway, shot a great first string today in 200 yard (technically 200 meters / 217-218 yards) standing slow fire:

http://www.ocabj.net/gallery/albums/misc_targets/IMG_4849.sized.jpg

BUT, after that, during my second string which was slightly worse (low 90s iirc), the last 2 rounds did this:

http://www.ocabj.net/gallery/albums/handloads_misc/IMG_4846
.sized.jpg

The two cases with the head separation came from a batch of 50 that was reloaded 7-8 times. So that brass pretty much went straight to the scrap brass bucket when I got home.

Remember kids: A head separation means the brass has got to go. 2 in a row means the brass definitely has to go! :o

Hey ocabj,

Sorry to hear about the case head separation. It's kind of ironic that you posted this. I reload also and I have about 500 Lake City cases that I have already reloaded 4 to 5 times. I am concerned about case head separations and wasn't sure if I should just chuck the brass. On most of the cases there is a ring near the case head that I couln't tell whether it was a sign of the case head getting weak or if it is from my small base sizing die. It's more like a tiny line that goes around the case as opposed to a band of shiny brass. Yesterday I took out my Dremel tool and cut about 8 cases in half to inspect. Every one of the cases showed no signs of case wall thinning. They all looked just fine so I'm kind of on the fence as to whether or not toreload the cases again. What do you think?

Nile
03-04-2007, 5:52 PM
A simple way to inspect / check brass. I have used a paper clip straighten out and bend the last 1/4" at a 90 degree bend, file a very fine point on the end. Then insert into case to the bottom and drag the point up from the bottom along the inside of the case. If you feel a catch, that case is close to failure. What works better is a dental tool bent the same way and the point sharpened. When you discover a case or two like this cut them in half and inspect. There are other ways to verify this condition prior to case failure but this one is simple and works.
"keep it safe".

NRAhighpowershooter
03-04-2007, 5:53 PM
ocabj Looks like you needed to come up 1/2 click :p I'm on my 4th reload on my Service Rifle brass with no signs of head seperation starting..... yet.......


Good target though!!

I'm still having eye problems but managed to squeek a 195 3X offhand Saturday at Richond's HP match......

anotherted
03-04-2007, 5:58 PM
Am I the only one seeing a "Hotlinking Denied" sign instead of the actual pics?

xrMike
03-04-2007, 6:08 PM
Am I the only one seeing a "Hotlinking Denied" sign instead of the actual pics?I see 'em.

Nice, nice shooting.

Am I the only one seeing 11 shots, or is that just a white speck in the 9-ring at 2 o'clock?

NRAhighpowershooter
03-04-2007, 6:15 PM
I see 'em.

Nice, nice shooting.

Am I the only one seeing 11 shots, or is that just a white speck in the 9-ring at 2 o'clock?

nope.. there are 12 shots in there.. and that high 9 is more like at 1 0'clock

Alanski56
03-04-2007, 6:18 PM
A simple way to inspect / check brass. I have used a paper clip straighten out and bend the last 1/4" at a 90 degree bend, file a very fine point on the end. Then insert into case to the bottom and drag the point up from the bottom along the inside of the case. If you feel a catch, that case is close to failure. What works better is a dental tool bent the same way and the point sharpened. When you discover a case or two like this cut them in half and inspect. There are other ways to verify this condition prior to case failure but this one is simple and works.
"keep it safe".

Good evening Nile,

Thanks for the tip. I wanted to get a visual since all of this brass in question has been kept track of and I figured if I did a visual on 7 or 8 that would be a good representation of the lot. Again, not one peice showed any signs of case wall thinning. I even showed my wife a picture of a suspect case and then lined up the cases I cut in half and asked her if she sees any evidence of what she sees in the picture. She said no so that's two sets of eyes. Should I reload them, shouldn't I reload them? Should I reload them, shouldn't I reload them. Hell, if money was no object I would just buy some new brass. I think what I'm struggling with is I haven't actually seen a case that was about to separate so the only benchmarks I have are pictures and pictures don't seem to answer the question completely.

xrMike
03-04-2007, 6:25 PM
nope.. there are 12 shots in there.. and that high 9 is more like at 1 0'clockI'm not talking about the one on the line at 1 o'clock, but one in the middle of the 9-ring at 2 o'clock. If you say there's 12 shots then I guess that is a bullet hole after all.

My next question, if there's 12 shots, how come the bull is scored at 98 - 2x?

Are there 2 sighters allowed?

(pardon my ignerence, i don't know how they score those SR matches)

NRAhighpowershooter
03-04-2007, 6:39 PM
There are 12 shots in there as 2 of them are sighters....

NRAhighpowershooter
03-04-2007, 6:41 PM
I'm not talking about the one on the line at 1 o'clock, but one in the middle of the 9-ring at 2 o'clock. If you say there's 12 shots then I guess that is a bullet hole after all.

My next question, if there's 12 shots, how come the bull is scored at 98 - 2x?

Are there 2 sighters allowed?

(pardon my ignerence, i don't know how they score those SR matches)


DOH!! Yup that is a shot in the middle of the 9 ring @ 2O'Clock

ocabj
03-04-2007, 7:25 PM
There's only 10 shots there. 8 in the 10 ring (2 X's), and a nine at 8 o'clock and a nine at 1 o'clock. Those 2 odd white specs are from the ink coming off I guess... I don't shoot sighters when I practice at my range. There's no need to. My practice upper is pretty much used exclusively at that range and it's always shot at 200 meters.

Anyway, those head separations were bound to happen. I'm pretty sure I loaded these cases at least 7 times. After full length sizing them everytime, it's going to go sometime. I was actually debating whether or not to chuck the brass in the scrap bucket when I was loading them up, too. I guess that solved my dilemma. 7 reloads is definitely enough brass life out of an autoloader, to me.

As far as seeing the "HA HA Hotlinking Denied" image, I use that image to prevent hotlinking, and I set rules to allow specific sites to link. Some people claim it comes up for them when they go to my website, which isn't supposed to happen, and I never had that error. I'm not sure if there's some weird issue with the rewrite engine on my host's webserver or what. Beats me.

xrMike
03-04-2007, 7:34 PM
After full length sizing them everytime, it's going to go sometime.How come you full-length size every time? I thought (from reading, not actual experience) that if the brass comes out of the same gun all the time that it's "fire-formed" for that chamber, and you only needed to neck-size it? Thanks.

ocabj
03-04-2007, 7:53 PM
Not in an autoloader. You have to full length size for feeding reliability. Plus, when you fire a round in an autoloader, the brass is technically going to expand somewhat larger than the chamber because the bolt is already starting to move back as the round is ignited.

Neck sizing is only for bolt guns and single shots where you control lock up. And even when I neck size for a bolt gun, I usually bump size with an FL die every 3 or 4 reloads on the brass. A couple years ago I switched from the Redding S-Type bushing neck sizer to the Hornady match bushing neck sizer for .308, because the Hornady die has custom neck sizing based on bushing inserts, but also does shoulder set back without body sizing. Great invention on Hornady's part. Been using that ever since.