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View Full Version : What's a good "trail running" gun???


IrishPirate
12-09-2011, 8:04 PM
I like to run in the hills (aka Mountain Lion Territory!!) and there have been a few times when I got that weird something's-not-right feeling right about the same time that I see signs of M.L.'s in the area. I don't run alone, but I'm not always right near the guys I run with.

I started thinking about what kind of gun I could run with and couldn't really come up with anything. Either it's small enough to not feel when running but doesn't pack the punch necessary to take down a hungry M.L. -OR- it's got the power but would be impossible to run with.

Is there anything out there about the size of your palm, lightweight, and chambered in....10mm or .45acp???

If not, WHY???? I'm thinking something like a P3AT or LCP with a single stack 4-5rd mag chambered in 10mm or .45acp would be PERFECT!!!!! I know that M.L. are the yellow ninjas of the animal kingdom and usually anyone attacked by one never sees the animal, but there are times when they don't pull off the one bite, one kill and the person is able to fight back...a little. In that case, having the "trail runner" (i retain copy-write privileges for that one ;) ) could save your life.

So is that already in production and just way too evil for us CA residents to even know about? Or is there some law of gun physics that would prevent this from becoming a reality???

0351USMC
12-09-2011, 8:06 PM
Kahr PM40

Black Majik
12-09-2011, 8:08 PM
Kahr PM45

Jason P
12-09-2011, 8:11 PM
Barrett 6.8:)

fanof1911forlife
12-09-2011, 8:17 PM
Smith and Wesson 329 PD. It's lightweight so you will not get tired humping the gun and the .44magnum cartridge will stop both 2-legs and 4-legs animals.

IrishPirate
12-09-2011, 8:23 PM
last time i held the kahr's i remember thinking that they were just a little too long and thick (wish i had that problem)

unusedusername
12-09-2011, 8:45 PM
last time i held the kahr's i remember thinking that they were just a little too long and thick

Watch out that this may wind up in someone's sig line lol :rofl2:

Seriously, there are pressure requirements for the bigger rounds. You can't really make a tiny gun that shoots a huge round.

How small do you need? Would an alloy-framed officer-sized 1911 in 10mm do the job?

amshooter
12-09-2011, 8:54 PM
Mountain lions are very stealthy and shy ambush hunters. They are basically impossible to track without trained dogs. If it's going to happen, he will most likely ambush you from a tree. Not sure a small gun in a belly band is going to do you any good at all when you have a lion locked on to your head. They are also very smart, and unless they are desperate or sick they will not see you as prey. To be mostly safe, you would have to walk with a 12 gauge. Leave the gun at home, get a good dog that likes to run or find a buddy to run with. If you do encounter one (& it's extremely unlikely you will) stop running immediately. Face him directly, make yourself as large as possible, yell, toss rocks, arm yourself with whatever is a hand and he will back down.

Kanester
12-09-2011, 8:58 PM
Glock 29?

10mm in 24oz...although maybe bigger than your looking for..

ALOC
12-09-2011, 9:17 PM
Just get a running partner that is slower than you!

locosway
12-09-2011, 9:32 PM
Size of your palm in 10mm? Sure, the Glock 29 holds 10 rounds of 10mm, and is a sub-compact. :)

You can do an image search on Google for the Glock 29, and half the pictures are from Oceanbob.

Mr Malarkey
12-09-2011, 10:24 PM
I always carry 40 cal Glock 27, always. Seems like enough gun for me. Hope I never have to test that theory. I mountain bike in the foothills, I have seen 1 mountain lion up close. He was on a log about 25 yards away with his ears back and tail waving back and forth. I stood on a rock with my jacket over my head and he ran. Iíve always wondered if he had charged would I have gotten to my gun? I worry about growers more than lions, and my 2 year old lab girl is my constant companion. You must be able to get to your gun quick. My wife and I have practiced drawing and shooting from our bikes. Now that was fun.
I carry in a fanny pack with gun in a side pouch, the gun is in an old side-armor holster Velcro-ed inside the pouch it's pretty fast and works well.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y232/GrumpyDog/IMG_8241.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y232/GrumpyDog/IMG_8240.jpg

BigNick
12-09-2011, 10:29 PM
Para ordinance warthog!

Oceanbob
12-09-2011, 10:33 PM
The Glock 29SF will do.

Not as big or heavy as a .44 magnum, but it does hold 10 plus 1.

http://i56.tinypic.com/142vgwl.jpg

Z.1
12-09-2011, 11:24 PM
It sounds like you're leaning toward self-loading, but a .357 LCR might fit the bill

Tiberius
12-10-2011, 12:51 AM
I was going to say one of those superlight J-frames, in .357 Magnum. But I like the Glock 29 idea too. The J-frame may have the edge in weight, but will punish for you in kick, which won't matter if a mountain lion is about to eat your face.

mls343
12-10-2011, 8:51 AM
I kind of have the opposite approach as my choice would be a .32acp with hollow points (Wather PP). It is light weight, so it fits in a fanny pack easily and does not bang against you when running/biking or other athletic activities. While the .32 is no powerhouse, it does go bang and the noise alone, in my opinion, will deter most of the 4 legged critters including mountain lions. Again, my thinking is noise alone will neutralize most, if not all, potential threats. Likewise, most 2 legged situations can be defused by simply knowing/showing that you are armed. Being in a semi-urban environment versus the vast wilderness, I think small and stealthy beats big and bad for me. Besides, if a Mountain Lion really wants to get you, like other posters have stated, you will be ambushed with little chance of getting to any firearm.

Again, this is just my opinion.

plumbum
12-10-2011, 8:59 AM
Cobra Patriot .45

But I would feel just as good with a Kahr CW9 with 147gr FMJ's

Shellshocker66
12-10-2011, 10:01 AM
I'm just wondering how easy it would even be to get to a gun and then try to shoot behind you? The typical mountain lion attack is going to be grabbing you by the back of the neck (when you least expect it) and standing on your back or to the side when they start to drag you off.

Maybe the sound of one going off would be enough to scare it off?

I knew a woman up in El Dorado county who was jogging and was attacked. It was believed she bent down to tie her shoes and was hit and then dragged off.

I've always wondered if there are any true stories of someone who had a gun and was able to use it after being attacked? I know I have heard stories of someone else having a weapon and using it successfully but not of an actual attacked solo person successfully warding off a mountain lion with a gun.

drpepper
12-10-2011, 10:31 AM
How about a knife?

IrishPirate
12-10-2011, 11:58 AM
Mountain lions are very stealthy and shy ambush hunters. They are basically impossible to track without trained dogs. If it's going to happen, he will most likely ambush you from a tree. Not sure a small gun in a belly band is going to do you any good at all when you have a lion locked on to your head. They are also very smart, and unless they are desperate or sick they will not see you as prey. To be mostly safe, you would have to walk with a 12 gauge. Leave the gun at home, get a good dog that likes to run or find a buddy to run with. If you do encounter one (& it's extremely unlikely you will) stop running immediately. Face him directly, make yourself as large as possible, yell, toss rocks, arm yourself with whatever is a hand and he will back down.

like i said, the yellow ninjas of the animal kingdom. I've seen more mountain lions than most people and every time i've done the classic get big and make a lot of noise, and everytime i was with other people. But wouldn't having a gun be a good idea too? I was out shooting with family one time and we went on a walk down a trail. After a few hundred yards we saw a cat jump out of a tree about 20 feet away from us, after everyone had walked past it without noticing. Noise doesn't ALWAYS deter them....they are big powerful animals and they know it. If they hear "people noises" and then find a victim once, they are going to stick around the next time they hear them. I know it's unlikely that I'd be able to really defend myself from a determined mountain lion, but i dont think it's really any different than having a CCW gun all the time. Just because it's unlikely doesn't mean you shouldn't be prepared right???

I was going to say one of those superlight J-frames, in .357 Magnum. But I like the Glock 29 idea too. The J-frame may have the edge in weight, but will punish for you in kick, which won't matter if a mountain lion is about to eat your face.

i actually thought about one of these after i posted last night. small, light, .357.....might do the trick too???
http://www.taurususa.com/images/imagesMain/605PLYB2_02.jpg
Taurus Protector Polymer

not a huge Taurus fan, but their revolvers seem to be better than their semi-autos.

the glock 29 idea isn't a bad one, but i was still thinking of something slimmer. A single stack 10mm the size of the P3AT or LCP is what i've got stuck in my mind. ultra light weight too. something i can clip to my shorts at 4-o'clock and run with.

and yes, two legged critters with gardens are a concern too!!!

Danhood
12-10-2011, 1:36 PM
45-70 Derringer :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTMxYhSfh9o

Marlin Hunter
12-10-2011, 1:48 PM
Mountain Lions are fast, so you need a fast shooting semi-auto. Mountain Lions are not very big, so a 9mm would be good enough. If you only have a 10 round magazine, than any semi auto, 9mm or larger, would be good. If you are worried about bears, than a 357 mag or 40S&W should be your minimum caliber choice. Small black bears have been downed by a 45 ACP.

Too Slow
12-10-2011, 2:18 PM
Ruger lcr. Lightweight, no problem with jams, fairly sweat proof and can handle a .38 +p or they have it in .357 (that recoils like crazy though).

IrishPirate
12-10-2011, 4:05 PM
45-70 Derringer :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTMxYhSfh9o

P34v983P2j4&feature=related

:eek:

saw this too and now i want one just because :D
KQM-wERs-VE



Mountain Lions are not very big, so a 9mm would be good enough.

really?....ever seen one up close?? nothing but pure muscle. Also, you're not aiming at a broad, flat chest area like a human. You need more penetration and larger wound channels to get to the vitals and incapacitate. Not saying a 9mm wouldn't do the trick if you hit it right, but i'd rather have a .357 or bigger and for a semi-atuo, 10mm just sounds perfect.

what's the slimmest .40sw on the market? maybe it could be re-tooled for 10mm?? :shrug:

also, maybe the GLOCK 36 (http://www.glock.com/english/index_pistols.htm) would work...
http://remtek.com/arms/glock/model/45/36/36.gif

mvanmetertoo
12-10-2011, 6:19 PM
"really?....ever seen one up close?? nothing but pure muscle."

I got to pat one up the east shore of Lake Tahoe. A guy had a "tame" one and was having people pay to take pictures of it.

It felt like a thin layer of fur over steel. Nothing at all like patting one of my greyhounds...

chrisf
12-10-2011, 7:20 PM
Just get a running partner that is slower than you!
This will work, Or get a dog to throw to him if he's hungry. But seriously what about a 1911 compact?

Sunday
12-11-2011, 8:00 AM
Mountain Lions are fast, so you need a fast shooting semi-auto. Mountain Lions are not very big, so a 9mm would be good enough. If you only have a 10 round magazine, than any semi auto, 9mm or larger, would be good. If you are worried about bears, than a 357 mag or 40S&W should be your minimum caliber choice. Small black bears have been downed by a 45 ACP.


Spray and pray? Mountain lions are a "soft game" a 38 special will do the job.

Quiet
12-11-2011, 9:01 AM
I use a .45ACP S&W Model 325PD (2.5") for my camping/trail/hiking gun.
Really lightweight and accurate.

If you want a lightweight single-stacked .45ACP or 10x25mm pistol, check out the Glock 36.
There's some people on other forums that have converted it to 10mm using a Glock 29 slide/barrel and modified Glock 36 magazines.

GatorHunter
12-11-2011, 10:10 AM
All you need is a pit bull or a lion hunting dog. Not a lab. I personally like to carry a large knife or spear. But I am looking into a 500 and will just have to tuff the weight as it should take care of everything in the woods.

StratORcaster
12-11-2011, 10:22 AM
Yeah a Pit bull will take care of you. :cool:

Tiberius
12-11-2011, 11:01 AM
After the lion eats the pit bull, it will be too full to chase you very hard. Even better would be to bring a second pit bull, for the lion's dessert.

StratORcaster
12-11-2011, 11:02 AM
There have been ML attacks in my neighborhood. Scary for sure.

GatorHunter
12-11-2011, 11:05 AM
Hey if a pit bull can take down a 600 pound pig it can maybe get lucky and defend you against a mountain lion.

IrishPirate
12-11-2011, 11:30 AM
Hey if a pit bull can take down a 600 pound pig it can maybe get lucky and defend you against a mountain lion.

pigs don't have long arms with razor sharp claws. Pigs pretty much just charge and hope they can get on top of you otherwise they can't reach you. Plus, pigs can't climb trees to ambush you.

Aircraftman
12-11-2011, 2:29 PM
Colt Cobra or Agent with 38+P ammo.

Light alloy frame and no chance of jams (cause you will only get one chance...)

158 gr should do the trick!!

Lone_Gunman
12-11-2011, 2:31 PM
What about a Glock 36? Single stack .45ACP... Nice and slim.

Dhena81
12-11-2011, 2:33 PM
Smith and Wesson 329 PD. It's lightweight so you will not get tired humping the gun and the .44magnum cartridge will stop both 2-legs and 4-legs animals.

^^^^This

IrishPirate
12-11-2011, 7:24 PM
Smith and Wesson 329 PD. It's lightweight so you will not get tired humping the gun and the .44magnum cartridge will stop both 2-legs and 4-legs animals.

that's a bit bigger than my palm....though it would make an excellent backwoods gun!!

I use a .45ACP S&W Model 325PD (2.5") for my camping/trail/hiking gun.
Really lightweight and accurate.

hmmmm.....that's an interesting little revolver. Seems like it would probably do the trick!! thanks for the tip...one more gun on my want list now :D

Flying Bones
12-11-2011, 7:26 PM
Smith and Wesson 329 PD. It's lightweight so you will not get tired humping the gun and the .44magnum cartridge will stop both 2-legs and 4-legs animals.

+1.

IrishPirate
12-17-2011, 2:13 PM
just held the G36 at a local shop and compared it to my G23.....not much of a difference!! the G36 is BARELY smaller than the G23 and the weight is about the same. I was hoping for something at least a good deal slimmer and lighter :(

if GLOCk made the G29 in single stack, i'd be sold....

Echidin
12-17-2011, 3:14 PM
like i said, the yellow ninjas of the animal kingdom. I've seen more mountain lions than most people and every time i've done the classic get big and make a lot of noise, and everytime i was with other people. But wouldn't having a gun be a good idea too? I was out shooting with family one time and we went on a walk down a trail. After a few hundred yards we saw a cat jump out of a tree about 20 feet away from us, after everyone had walked past it without noticing. Noise doesn't ALWAYS deter them....they are big powerful animals and they know it. If they hear "people noises" and then find a victim once, they are going to stick around the next time they hear them. I know it's unlikely that I'd be able to really defend myself from a determined mountain lion, but i dont think it's really any different than having a CCW gun all the time. Just because it's unlikely doesn't mean you shouldn't be prepared right???



i actually thought about one of these after i posted last night. small, light, .357.....might do the trick too???
http://www.taurususa.com/images/imagesMain/605PLYB2_02.jpg
Taurus Protector Polymer

not a huge Taurus fan, but their revolvers seem to be better than their semi-autos.

the glock 29 idea isn't a bad one, but i was still thinking of something slimmer. A single stack 10mm the size of the P3AT or LCP is what i've got stuck in my mind. ultra light weight too. something i can clip to my shorts at 4-o'clock and run with.

and yes, two legged critters with gardens are a concern too!!!

I think you're on the right track in considering a wheelgun over a semi-auto. Something I haven't seen mentioned yet is once the lion has you on the ground, and it will have no trouble getting you to the ground, the last thing you need is limited space between you and the ground or you and the lion that could cause the blowback operation of a semi-auto needed to eject the spent casing and chamber the next round to fail. You won't have this issue with a revolver and .357 magnum will have no problem getting the job done. You may even consider a knife to bring along with you as well.

40cal.
12-17-2011, 7:38 PM
I carry an Air Weight J frame 38 with +P rounds Mountain Biking. Hardly know it's in my pocket.

1911_Mitch
12-17-2011, 8:12 PM
-----

gh0stface
12-17-2011, 8:13 PM
Spray and pray? Mountain lions are a "soft game" a 38 special will do the job.
I agree with Sunday. ML are very muscular, but they have fragile bones. A 38 would be fine for a defensive against MLs.

bsg
12-17-2011, 8:18 PM
"really?....ever seen one up close?? nothing but pure muscle."

I got to pat one up the east shore of Lake Tahoe. A guy had a "tame" one and was having people pay to take pictures of it.

It felt like a thin layer of fur over steel. Nothing at all like patting one of my greyhounds...


good description.

bombadillo
12-17-2011, 8:22 PM
Ruger LCR .357mag. They'll take mag loads and are SUPER light.