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View Full Version : AR Lower Receiver FAQ (56k beware) MMS, CMT, LAR, LMT compared...


xenophobe
03-04-2007, 10:05 AM
Receiver FAQ Version 0.1 (please note this is still rough, and is not nearly finished)

I live in a ban state, so no luck getting Bushmaster, Armalite, DPMS or Colt into the mix. My apologies.

I see a lot of threads asking about Quality and Suggestions for which brand of receiver any particular person would buy, so I thought I might write this info I've posted in a number of places to have it's own thread.

There are currently FOUR manufacturers that produce the majority of lower receivers for the AR market. MMS, CMT, LMT and LAR receive orders from many licensed manufacturers who obtain an ATF variance to have them cut and logo receivers on their behalf. JVP and Superior Arms cut for a couple of different companies as well, but currently I will only focus on the four main manufacturers differences.

Mega, Stag (CMT), LAR and Barrett (LMT):
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/7830/381.jpg


Not all inclusive, and a few brands have had more than one manufacturer cut their receivers. Many companies receive CMT and LMT cuts in the white and finish them themselves. I have not seen a LAR or MMS cut that was finished by a third party company.

LMT = LMT, Lauer(old), DS Arms, PWA, Eagle, Knights Armament, Barrett, Bushmaster (?)
CMT = Stag, RRA, High Standard, Noveske, Century (current), Global Tactical, CLE, S&W, MGI, Wilson Tactical, (some?) Colt, Ratworx
LAR = Grizzly, Bushmaster (L Prefix), Ameetech, (?)DPMS, CMMG, Double Star, Fulton
JVP = Double Star, LRB
MMS = Mega, GSE, Dalphon, POF (forged), Alexander Arms,
Olympic = Olypmic, SGW, Tromix, Palmetto, Dalphon, Frankford, (old) Century
Sun Devil = Sun Devil forged billet receivers
Superior = Superior Arms, Lauer (current)
Grenadier Precision

Characteristics of the manufacturers (please note, the most typical characteristics are listed, and each manufacturer may have substantial sample variation between lots):

LMT usually leaves forge flash underneath the trigger well, and roughly cuts them between the receiver extension and pistol grip, while leaving a vertical mold flash line on the front lip of the mag well, as well as having other "fingerprint" marks... no bevel cut for the charging handle on the rear lug for the receiver extension, as well as particular mill marks in between the pivot pin tangs. They also have a 'fingerprint' cut in the receiver on the shelf, and below it where the FCG goes. Notice the diagonal mill mark on one of the pivot pin supports. Also unique is the radius in the grip tang pocket, which is not as smooth a transition as the other manufacturers.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/531/lmt1.jpghttp://img148.imageshack.us/img148/842/lmt2.jpg

xenophobe
03-04-2007, 10:09 AM
CMT has a rounded bevel on the front of the mag well lip, generally removes the forge flash underneath the trigger well, usually offers a smooth and rounded surface between the receiver extension and pistol grip and has a unique mill mark that would be hidden by the attachment of a pistol grip. There is also a clamp mark of some sort that occurs on the top of the pivot pin lugs that LMT and LAR do not have (see 1st photo at beginning of thread).

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/3253/cmt1.jpghttp://img148.imageshack.us/img148/6706/cmt3.jpg

LAR sometimes leaves forge flash underneath the trigger well, and does have a smooth flat milling mark on the round transition on the web between the receiver extension and grip. By the back of the grip tang, there is a milling mark that goes across the width of the receiver. The front of the receiver has a deep cut between the pivot pin retainers, and the front of the mag well is not always flat. The front radius to the mag well bevel is round, but the front edge sometimes shows forge flash.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/8288/lar1.jpghttp://img148.imageshack.us/img148/7054/lar2.jpg

xenophobe
03-04-2007, 10:11 AM
MMS usually the cleanest cut, with the exception of some CMT receivers. All of the MMS receivers for Mega, POF, Gunsmoke, Dalphon and Stinger I've seen have the typical black teflon coating. Some of the receivers look absolutely perfect, others have mag wells that are cut from both sides and don't quite match up in the center. Some of them also have what look like file marks running in one direction on part of all of the receiver, and can be somewhat subdued or very noticable. I won't describe machining fingerprints, because all Mega manufactured receivers are pretty obviously made by MMS.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4250/mms1.jpghttp://img148.imageshack.us/img148/9693/mms2.jpg

The forgings that CMT and LMT use are also from different manufacturers. The ribbed A2 strength on the reciever extension lug is thinner on the LMT, while the CMT is almost the full width. Mega appears to use the same forgings as LMT. All of the manufacturers seem to have some variation of mag well bevels, and those aren't primarily useful in identification.

From left to right, Mega, Stag/CMT, LAR, LMT and Barrett,

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/2847/73704265co7.jpg

xenophobe
03-04-2007, 10:12 AM
Other comparisons
All of the following photos will show from left to right; Mega, Stag, LAR, Barrett and/or LMT:

Notice the lack of a charging handle bevel on the Barrett/LMT
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/4400/30755159bs4.jpg

Notice the difference between the LMT and the larger mag well bevel of the Barrett (far right):
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/3703/382.jpg

Trigger well forge flash clearly visible on the Barrett and LMT:
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/8997/57432685hm8.jpg

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/842/384.jpg

xenophobe
03-04-2007, 10:16 AM
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/5179/14018510eb5.jpg


Links to the manufacturers:
LMT = Lewis Machine and Tool
www.lewismachine.net (http://www.lewismachine.net)

CMT= Continental Machine and Tool
www.continentalmachinetool.com (http://www.continentalmachinetool.com)
www.stagarms.com (http://www.stagarms.com) (an individual corporation that was started by CMT)

LAR = some combination of the original owner's last initials
www.larmanufacturing.com (http://www.larmanufacturing.com)
www.largrizzly.com (http://www.largrizzly.com)

MMS=Mega Machine Shop
www.megamachineshop.com (http://www.megamachineshop.com) (new)

JVP=JV Precision
jvprecision.net (http://jvprecision.net)

Superior Arms
www.superiorarms.com (http://www.superiorarms.com)


Okay, I'm done for now... whew... More info and pics later.

If there are any corrections, or requests for pics/comparisons of angles I have not yet posted, please PM me.

damon1272
03-04-2007, 10:22 AM
Xeno,
Great info. This will direct me in my next purchase.

G17GUY
03-04-2007, 10:28 AM
Wow, great thread!

NSR500
03-04-2007, 10:35 AM
Good Info! Thx...

triggerhappy
03-04-2007, 11:01 AM
Thank you, thank you, thank you. That was very informative and will he quite helpful for my 1st OLL purchase :)

tiger222
03-04-2007, 11:45 AM
xeno

thanks for the great pics and info....
not being a machinist ~ is there a clear winner here?

SemiAutoSam
03-04-2007, 11:47 AM
You mentioned you didnt have a pic of an Armalite.

Here is such a pic at least of the Magwell area.

http://i18.tinypic.com/2a5an43.jpg

BTW Xeno as usual good work.

kneedeep
03-04-2007, 1:25 PM
good write-up thanks for the pics.
whats the AR connection and backround in pics? good source of information? :)

damon1272
03-04-2007, 3:34 PM
This thread should be a sticky.

NeoWeird
03-04-2007, 3:59 PM
I quickly glanced over the posts, but by the looks of it Stag has the nicest and most uniform machining of the lot. You can really see this in the contoured edge between the grip and stock, also on the magwell where the wall width is nice and uniform and square, where as the others tend to have slight imperfections, small waves, non-square edges, etc. Also on the hood of the receiver extension tower (or whatever you would like to technically call it) you will notice a nice even flat where some of the others have mulitple plateau levels or are slightly angled.

Not saying the others are bad, but from the looks of these pictures, Stag would be my personal choice in regards to quality. YMMV.

ETA: Just throught I should add this note. The contoured edge between the grip and stock is most likely caused just by tooling. Most places probably just put a straight end mill in and come in close to get that edge off. Stag (and I think one other looked really nice as well) most likely have a contoured tool that is either shaped like a sideways U to the exact contour of the receivers contour, or it looks like a normal end mill with a round corner biten off the edge and they do one side, flip it over and do the other. Either way it's only effects it's aesthetic appearance and does not indicate that the other manufactures took shortcuts, were sloppy, poor machining, etc. It's simply just the difference between using two tools that do the same thing but one has a slightly nicer finish for this particular application.

NeoWeird
03-04-2007, 4:41 PM
Here is a quick drawing to show what I was talking about for those that don't know much about machining. The receiver itself is usually taken from a rough casting. A piece of metal, in the case of the AR usually 7075 aluminum is pressed in a two piece mold to get all the outside contours and edges done. This process leaves a ridge along the outside of the reciever where metal is forced between the two mold pieces, this is usually about as thick as paper, but very near the actual receiver a thicker ridge is left, this is because of a slight contour on each edge of the mold, some from deburring the edge, some for stress reasons, others for easy removal from the mold. Once it is cleaned up to the rough casting it will look like this:

https://www.vbd.com/noc/images/products/121154549.jpg

At this point the rough milling can be done, and all other processes like drilling, taping, etc. This forging process is why those billet lowers look smooth and shinny. See the forging crushes the metal to the form on the outside with great pressure. Small imperfections arise in the skin, but at the same time the skin is compressed and becomes super rigid. The outside does not need to be touched with anything as it is already to size, but on billet lowers it is machined from a single piece of billet (essentially just bar stock - a big chunk of metal in the shape of a long rectangle usually) so the entire outside needs to be machined. The result is a smoother and cleaner finish, but it doesn't get that surface compression. It most likely doesn't matter, but to some the surface compression is important, to others the finish is important. Either way billet lowers take more many hours and more tooling to make, so they are just inherantly more expensive (but that does not mean better).

Back to the point at hand, this is a crude diagram showing the difference between a contoured mill and a normal square end mill.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b354/NeoWeird/receivercontour.jpg

An end mill is like a drill, except it can cut on it's face instead of on it's point. So in the diagram above you can see how the square end mill removes the ridge, but leaves that flat edge behind where as the contoured mill removes the ridge to the edact contour of the receiver. Neither one is better, but the contoured mill will leave a much more pleasing finish as there will be no lines to see and it will be one smooth continuous line around the receiver. It's an exact tool, and exact setup/labor, so most companies probably don't want to deal with or don't have the ability to.

Again it doesn't do anything for the receiver outside of making it more aesthetically pleasing.

catsupsam
03-04-2007, 5:09 PM
Thank you...you don't get enough credit for your work and postings regarding the differences in lowers.
This will show up over at ar15.com pretty quick...hope they will reference it.

SemiAutoSam
03-04-2007, 5:15 PM
Anyone into metalwork ?

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=472&d=1172710214

hi_desert
03-04-2007, 8:09 PM
Very nice compilation! Question, all the receivers that I have purchased or seen recently, RRA, Stag, CMMG, and Mega, have no painted roll marks. Yours are all white in the photos. Is that your own custom touch or something that manufacturers use to do in the past. Thanks

PLINK
03-04-2007, 8:23 PM
Very nice compilation! Question, all the receivers that I have purchased or seen recently, RRA, Stag, CMMG, and Mega, have no painted roll marks. Yours are all white in the photos. Is that your own custom touch or something that manufacturers use to do in the past. Thanks

I am not sure what Xeno used but some people use Crayons or grease pens.

goldfinger
03-04-2007, 8:36 PM
moderators, please sticky this

artherd
03-04-2007, 11:33 PM
So, basically, what you're saying is that AR lowers are all about equal as long as everything fits, and they don't fall apart, right? ;)

Nice comparison though, interesting to see some of the detail on how the machining practices differ.

xenophobe
03-05-2007, 3:09 AM
Yeah, well all the AR receivers that I used for the demonstration all work equally well. There are differences in machining techniques and finishing touches, but all of them are just as fully functional as others. This post really only addresses the cosmetic issues of final machining.

I use art/drawing grease/oil crayons to fill in the markings.

CALI-gula
03-05-2007, 3:31 AM
GREAT POST! And GREAT PHOTOS!!

However, just what are you trying to accomplish by laying them out atop a Ouija board??

You want to make them MORE EVIL???? :eek:

.

Mr. Ed
03-05-2007, 9:47 AM
Who makes Sabre Defense lowers? They're a military contracted company that makes nice rifles.

jaymz
03-05-2007, 9:55 AM
GREAT POST! And GREAT PHOTOS!!

However, just what are you trying to accomplish by laying them out atop a Ouija board??

You want to make them MORE EVIL???? :eek:

.

Beat me to it!!!:D

stator
03-05-2007, 10:06 AM
I am not sure what Xeno used but some people use Crayons or grease pens.

China markers available in arts supply and office supply stores.


I should add that finish milling does not make a reliable AR. The only valid comparison is to take samples from the manufacturer and mic them. Or in other words, you want something as close to dimensionally perfect as possible before you start to worry about the cosmetics.

In mic'ing lowers for about 15 years now, I have found that LMT, and Colt are about the best, and LAR is about the worst on this list. I have not mic'd any MMS but these should be up there if milled from billet.

The question that I get all the time is how can one tell without bringing in a caliper to the gunstore and check a bunch of lowers? Well, the two best areas to look at are the magazine boss and the sides of the trigger well.

For the trigger well, just eye the side thickness. Sort out the ones with one side much thicker than the other. Move onto the magazine boss and look at how centered the mag catch slot is. I've seen some that barely pass through the boss.

Also, check the front pivot pin holes and how well it is centered in the front lugs.

wheelgunner
05-12-2007, 7:16 PM
xenophobe, thanks for the great info.

Do you know who is making "Centermass Tactical" Calguns lower receiver?

Also, Moderators can you make this a "sticky"?

I first read this as a sticky" on AR15.com.

SemiAutoSam
05-12-2007, 8:32 PM
From talking to the man that owns Centermass Tactical they are made in a shop in Carson City Nevada.



xenophobe, thanks for the great info.

Do you know who is making "Centermass Tactical" Calguns lower receiver?

Also, Moderators can you make this a "sticky"?

I first read this as a sticky" on AR15.com.

supersonic
05-14-2007, 11:21 AM
Thank you, thank you, thank you. That was very informative and will he quite helpful for my 1st OLL purchase :)

+1 on zat. Man, you must have a LOT of time, not to mention you must smell like S**T!!!!!(being that you seem to be anal-retentive!) LOL...LOL...:45: :clap: Just joshin', I couldn't help busting yer balls, mang! Anyway, great detail in those pics. I'm assuming you are the (proud) owner of the items in question.?
S.S.

Dayton
06-04-2007, 5:43 PM
xenophobe this is amazing. I've always wondered the cosmetic differences between lowers. Thanks so much.

Blacky
01-22-2008, 12:14 AM
This is probably the most useful AR Tip thread Ive seen.

Have there been enough manufacturer changes to justify any updates?

Shane916
01-22-2008, 12:25 AM
This is probably the most useful AR Tip thread Ive seen.

Have there been enough manufacturer changes to justify any updates?

Not that im aware of :D


and the thread lives again!

J_Rock
01-22-2008, 12:38 AM
IMHO these will be the best lowers ever created

Magpul billet lower:
did I mention its a billet
integral trigger guard
flared magwell
threaded bolt catch pin
basically this requires no roll pins what so ever to build

http://demigodllc.com/photo/Magpul-Lower/small/D100_8631_img.jpg
http://demigodllc.com/photo/Magpul-Lower/small/D100_9045_img.jpg

Jicko
01-22-2008, 1:39 AM
IMHO these will be the best lowers ever created

Magpul billet lower:
did I mention its a billet
integral trigger guard
flared magwell
threaded bolt catch pin
basically this requires no roll pins what so ever to build

For the record, NO MAGPUL lowers were ever sold.

You are probably not going to see it anytime soon, if ever, on the market.

apbrian112
01-22-2008, 2:10 AM
great thread! just wondering if anybody knew who makes spikes lowers? i have 1 stag and 2 spikes lowers and the tolerances are slightly different. just wondering... thanks.
-brian-
ps. +100000 on making this a sticky, will prevent all the "which lower?" posts from multiplying like rabbits on viagra...

Hopi
01-22-2008, 11:20 AM
We need a "walking zombies" smiley for these damn necro-thread posts!:p

apbrian112
01-22-2008, 11:30 AM
We need a "walking zombies" smiley for these damn necro-thread posts!:p

haha... didn't realize this thread was soooo old :p... hehe... nevertheless, good thread for the new guys...

Hopi
01-22-2008, 11:36 AM
haha... didn't realize this thread was soooo old :p... hehe... nevertheless, good thread for the new guys...

Yes, this was/is a good thread......you know xeno has been quiet lately.

Blacky
01-22-2008, 12:03 PM
ev∑o∑lu∑tion (v-lshn, v-) n.
A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.

caldude
01-22-2008, 2:24 PM
It may be an old thread, but a good one for us newbies. In looking at the comparison pictures, the Stag lower has much cleaner machining IMO, so I'd probably lean that way in picking up an OLL if everything else is equal.

Twisted_Pear
01-24-2008, 7:14 PM
I missed this thread the first time, or forgot about it, but I notice the lack of Superior Arms comments. My Superior is night and day in terms of quality compared to my Lauer. Smoother finish, smoother beveling, charging handle bevel and the trigger set screw. But typical of Superior are very slight milling errors around the selector switch and raised areas. Easily missed if not looking though. My second SA is lesser in quality. It's about 100 less in serial (0019xx) and has a more flat colored look with some severe milling marks/lines around the selector.

I'd recommend them though some are paranoid about the "AUTO" label.

ar15barrels
01-24-2008, 11:06 PM
Good thread.

Darklyte27
05-29-2008, 11:24 PM
thanks I went with a stag and doublestar

1. I got a stag for 110$ shipped and a doublestar for 100$ shipped
2. reviews and hearing people liking them.

tikka
08-08-2008, 12:54 PM
Should I consider other lowers that may have been released since this posting?
No matter what, this has been the single most helpful thread I have found on lowers, very nice. I made a single document out of it for future use.

trinydex
08-08-2008, 1:36 PM
like the aircraft armament ones?

aplinker
08-08-2008, 2:03 PM
There really aren't bad lowers out there - it's just a matter of incremental choice differences in finish, logo, cut, etc.

Skip Hesse/Vulcan, though :)

There aren't any "new ones" I would outright avoid

ar15barrels
08-08-2008, 2:57 PM
There really aren't bad lowers out there - it's just a matter of incremental choice differences in finish, logo, cut, etc.

There aren't any "new ones" I would outright avoid

You should have seen the centermass tactical Calguns one I built up the other day. ;)
With some lapping compound applied to the trigger where it drops through the receiver, I was able to get it to work.

Hopi
10-11-2008, 6:46 PM
Another OLL
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x266/k9-bob/YHM-125.jpg

trykp
11-20-2008, 10:50 AM
Taken from a post at AR15.net

1 1/2yr old list FWIW:

Lewis Machine & Tool
LMT
Lauer
DS Arms
PWA
Eagle
Armalite
Knights Armament
Barrett

Continental Machine Tool
Stag
Rock River Arms
High Standard
Noveske
Colt
Century (New)
Global Tactical
CLE
S&W
MGI
Wilson Tactical
Grenadier Precision??


LAR Manufacturing
LAR
Bushmaster
Ameetec
DPMS
CMMG
Double Star
Fulton Armory
Spike's Tactical

JVP
Double Star
LRB
Charles Daly

Mega Machine Shop
Mega
GSE
Dalphon
POF
Alexander Arms

Olympic
Olympic
SGW
Tromix
Palmetto
Dalphon
Frankford
Century (Old)

Sun Devil
Sun Devil forged billet receivers

Superior
Superior Arms
Lauer (New)

baldoHHO
11-20-2008, 11:26 AM
PERFEkT!

ptoguy2002
11-20-2008, 12:17 PM
Need to add Kaiser on here now.

eaglemike
11-20-2008, 3:03 PM
I didn't know LAR mfg was here in San Diego. :) I've seen a LOT of Spike's lowers on anodizing racks here in town......... :) I haven't been in there every day to see what brand was on the racks, but I sure saw a bunch of them from time to time.
all the best,
Mike

kaiserworks
11-21-2008, 5:55 PM
I didn't know LAR mfg was here in San Diego. :) I've seen a LOT of Spike's lowers on anodizing racks here in town......... :) I haven't been in there every day to see what brand was on the racks, but I sure saw a bunch of them from time to time.
all the best,
Mike

Its not LAR that has those Spikes receivers on the anodizing racks.

uracan
12-07-2008, 11:44 PM
kudos to xenophobe. great information

tacobueno
12-07-2008, 11:59 PM
Need to add Kaiser on here now.

Yea, I should be buying one this next week. Anyone have any opinions on them?

eaglemike
12-08-2008, 1:14 AM
Its not LAR that has those Spikes receivers on the anodizing racks.
My tongue was planted firmly in my cheek when I said that. That's why I added the smilies...
:)
all the best,
Mike

hib00stsupra
12-11-2008, 10:33 PM
So which one is the BEST receiver out of the four in your guys opinion?

ar15barrels
12-11-2008, 11:05 PM
So which one is the BEST receiver out of the four in your guys opinion?

Any forged one for under $100 that's built to correct specs.
The stamping on the side makes no difference.

wildhawker
12-11-2008, 11:16 PM
Until the craze dies down it would seem that the KD lowers are the most available and best value in Mil-Spec, others like Sun Devil are priced well but billet (some prefer forged). All under $200.

Seesm
12-12-2008, 12:58 AM
Why would someone prefer forged over billet...?

I would want a billet one since all the stuff I make is make out of billet chunks of metal. I want one so much I may build one soon for my allowed yearly build up... So who now makes some nice billet ones reasonably cheap?

aplinker
12-12-2008, 1:59 AM
Why would someone prefer forged over billet...?

Strength.


I would want a billet one since all the stuff I make is make out of billet chunks of metal. I want one so much I may build one soon for my allowed yearly build up... So who now makes some nice billet ones reasonably cheap?

They're all more expensive than forged. Sun Devil is the cheapest. POF, Magpul, LaRue and another one that escapes me also are selling them.

fotoman
12-24-2008, 2:12 AM
Wow... Excellent post guys, Thanks.

coltn46920
12-28-2008, 2:18 PM
Need to add Kaiser on here now.

Yea, I should be buying one this next week. Anyone have any opinions on them?

wondering the same thing.

DocSkinner
02-27-2009, 1:50 PM
Great series of posts - and to make someone happy - I even found it USING THE SEARCH FEATURE before I asked basically this question!

fliparch
02-27-2009, 2:43 PM
Wish I had this yesterday when I ordered my first lower. Thanks tho, this will be helpful on my second purchase.

dilligaffrn
02-27-2009, 2:49 PM
STICKY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
STICKY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
STICKY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
STICKY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
STICKY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
STICKY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
STICKY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
STICKY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ParaLarry
07-19-2009, 10:37 PM
Just found this thread and wonder how current everything is.
I have a choice between a Stag Arms and a CMMG receiver - any comments, evaluations, speculation on either brand?
I have an old Olympic Arms upper; what is the difference between the pin sizes nowadays?

aplinker
07-19-2009, 11:08 PM
The best thing you can do is use this guide as a way to inspect lowers.

Many of the makes have "jumped ship" and now use different cutters from those listed.

Go to a shop and inspect as many as you can. Make your choice. Buy.

Sick Boy
07-26-2009, 12:42 AM
Another excellent thread for the noobs like me.

Does anyone have up a comparison for the billet receivers?? I'm sure that would be a godawful expensive article!

Phil3
08-02-2009, 2:16 PM
I think the guide is helpful in knowing what to look for. Take that knowledge and inspect the receiver. That won't work with mailorder, but still, just doing that exercise with receivers you can inspect at a store can be revealing.

I have a SunDevil lower which is well made, with crisp machined edges, but it does have some minor imperfections in the very smooth finish. It comes across as being a precision made and attractive piece, which also makes seem a bit vulnerable and fragile to anything that could cosmetically harm it.

On the other hand, my Noveske N6 lower receiver is no comparison to the SunDevil in precision appearance. Some very obvious forging lines, trigger opening not exactly centered side to side, wall thickness on top of magwell slightly thicker on right vs left, etc. Yet those largely cosmetic inconsistencies, flaws, and a rougher matt finish make the N6 feel like a no-nonsense, rugged, battle ready piece of hardware, where the focus was on function, not appearance.

There are many other feature differences, but the two I have show there is a definite difference just in the bare bones product.

- Phil

gsalinas
09-20-2010, 12:34 AM
There a lot of stuff to filter here so i guess I will as the question? What do you recommend in lowers? I don't necessarily need the top notch, but do appreciate quality at a reasonable price. How much should I be looking to spend? Do you guys recommend any stores in particular?

gsrturboek
09-20-2010, 12:54 AM
goldenstatetactical.com

they have stripped spikes tactical lower receivers for a great price.

ctrmass
10-13-2010, 6:46 AM
Sabre defence? I can post a pic if needed.

loosewreck
10-13-2010, 7:05 AM
Wow this is an old thread, but a good one.

OP, Rifle Gear has Forged Mega Lowers for $100, comes out to $130ish after tax and DROS. IMHO, the best forged lower you can get. Closer to you over at Entrprise Arms they've got LRB lowers for $100, pretty nice too, not quite as clean as Mega though.

ctrmass
10-13-2010, 7:16 AM
Oh yea, forgot LRB arms. I dont have one of them.

[IMG]http://www.lrbarms.com/images/396_M15SA_lower_receiver.JPG[IMG]

ctrmass
10-13-2010, 7:41 AM
Wow this is an old thread, but a good one.

OP, Rifle Gear has Forged Mega Lowers for $100, comes out to $130ish after tax and DROS. IMHO, the best forged lower you can get. Closer to you over at Entrprise Arms they've got LRB lowers for $100, pretty nice too, not quite as clean as Mega though.


If you can get a group of 30 purchases together, you can get the LRB lowers for $56.00 ea.:D
I dont know if they'll ship to cali though.

nic
10-13-2010, 7:45 AM
I have an LRB lower. It's nice. I like the finish - more of a matte gray color than shiny/anodized black.

84Runner
12-02-2010, 7:39 PM
Any updates we should be aware of now? Thx in advance guys.

scootle
12-02-2010, 8:16 PM
Oh wowsers, this thread might be old but wow... great info. How'd you know I am in the market for my first "evil" black lower? I figure the AR project has to get started someday... so off we go.

I am very interested in the CalGuns-etched lowers from RifleGear:

http://riflegear.com/p-592-calgunsnet-stripped-lower-bear-logo-special-run.aspx

Seeing that they are listed as manufactured in San Diego by JD Machine Tech, I presume that isn't related to LAR (also located in SD)?

Frankly, at this point, it won't matter to me, I am pretty positive I will go with the CalGuns lower to support the Foundation (for what it's worth)... now I just need to find a local FFL willing to take delivery of the stripped lower for me. I found out my local dealer will no longer accept shipped stripped lowers for FFL transfer. :(

Thanks for necro'ing this post... it is very cool info even if it's a few years old. It shows newbs like me what to look for in the details. :D

ctrmass
12-03-2010, 6:01 AM
Has Quentin defense been listed?
I got one of their 80% ers.:rolleyes:

EuReekCA
12-24-2010, 1:26 AM
Where is Valkyrie Arms (Milpitas) and Franklin Armory (Morgan Hill)? ;)

straykiller
12-24-2010, 1:51 AM
thanks for the info

xenophobe
12-24-2010, 2:05 AM
Wow... blast from the past. lol

problemchild
12-24-2010, 5:05 AM
For the record, NO MAGPUL lowers were ever sold.

You are probably not going to see it anytime soon, if ever, on the market.

Wrong answer billy joe bob.........

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=24668

dieselpower
12-24-2010, 7:57 AM
Originally Posted by Jicko
For the record, NO MAGPUL lowers were ever sold.

You are probably not going to see it anytime soon, if ever, on the market.



Wrong answer billy joe bob.........

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=24668

he made that post in Jan 2008, you ( in 2010...a few days before Jan 2011) post a single sale of one in a thread dated Jan 2009...and you think HE is wrong...

bahaha........

please post a link to a store that stocks Magpul lowers please.....

VacaDuck
12-24-2010, 7:59 AM
Unless you were the original author over there, this has been posted on AR15.com for at least a year.

If you are the original author, thank you. If not, don't pass this off as your own work.

pacrimguru
12-24-2010, 8:02 AM
Unless you were the original author over there, this has been posted on AR15.com for at least a year.

If you are the original author, thank you. If not, don't pass this off as your own work.

are you sure the OP isn't the one that posted this on arfcom originally? he posted it here on calguns in 2007.

VacaDuck
12-24-2010, 8:04 AM
I am going through the archives trying to find it. Just read the damn thing two weeks ago and can't find it now.

are you sure the OP isn't the one that posted this on arfcom originally? he posted it here on calguns in 2007.

pacrimguru
12-24-2010, 8:04 AM
he made that post in Jan 2008, you ( in 2010...a few days before Jan 2011) post a single sale of one in a thread dated Jan 2009...and you think HE is wrong...

bahaha........

please post a link to a store that stocks Magpul lowers please.....

LOL. people need to read the time stamps for these necro posts. if you see ar15barrels or aplinker posts, you gotta know it's an old thread. hahaha

coyotebait
07-20-2011, 6:20 AM
It's alive!!!

freonr22
11-16-2011, 1:17 PM
Is it time to get updated?

h0use
11-16-2011, 1:21 PM
Good thread!

VaderSpade
11-16-2011, 2:08 PM
Is it time to get updated?

Or just maybe itís time to let the thread die?

While it was good information in 2007 Iím not sure all the same companies are still using the same machine shops, and there has been so many new companies putting their names on Lowers it would be hard to sort it all out.

VaderSpade
11-16-2011, 2:11 PM
I think I read somewhere (don’t quote me) that Tactical Machining is making lowers for 29 different companies, and they weren’t even in the game in 2007!

Nathan Krynn
11-16-2011, 2:16 PM
I think I read somewhere (donít quote me) that Tactical Machining is making lowers for 29 different companies, and they werenít even the game in 2007!

That is very close number to the truth. Scarily close. I would bet we have more variances then that as well, some just haven't got the lowers yet.

ctrmass
11-16-2011, 2:28 PM
I've got some of your 80% work. VERY NICE!!!
Patiently awaiting another sale. The Clausing is losing it's mind.:D