PDA

View Full Version : Federal Agent Demands Food Storage List from LDS


Turk
12-08-2011, 3:18 PM
Move along nothing to see here...

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2011/12/08/oath-keepers-alert-federal-agents-demand-customer-lists-from-mormon-food-storage-facility/

wjc
12-08-2011, 3:25 PM
Couple this with the push by Feds to learn who is buying Army Surplus gear.

TrailerparkTrash
12-08-2011, 4:02 PM
Move along nothing to see here...

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2011/12/08/oath-keepers-alert-federal-agents-demand-customer-lists-from-mormon-food-storage-facility/

Turk, im not slamming you at all. Thanks for posting this article. You're just the messenger here. However, i have suspicion with the author of that article and with "Oath Keepers" and their president.... I flat out dont buy this story. What "Federal agents?". From what "agency" were the "men in black" from?

I flat out dont believe it. I could possibly see that hypothetically lets assume its the FBI and they have been following a case about some "home grown Timothy McViegh wanna-be" martyr. Perhaps they know this "suspect" shops at the LDS food supply store and they are trying to get more detailed info and positively identify their man. If they could get a copy of a personal check (with an address and name etc) from the suspect, coupled with his bank info for a future search warrant, then i can see that scenario plausible. Law enforcement probably cant go into the store and ask to see only "one check" or credit card purchase info from one guy withour "burning" their case. So, they seek the store owner to help and "volunteer" any kind of info of "all" customers as a ruse.

Simply wanting a list of customers just to determine whos buying food is silly. Now i admit that i could be wrong about my own theory, but it just seems like more doomsday internet bogus paranoia.

After all, the "article" came from the "oath keepers" own website! Tell me thats not a "slanted" story. That like believing in "Pravda" as the absolute truth when they published and swore that the former Soviet Union was a "good and friendly peace loving regime."

problemchild
12-08-2011, 6:37 PM
Guess you didnt get the Memo. Motherland security already published things to look for in home grown terrorists.

Survival gear
Food storage
Returning vets
More than one box of ammo or more than one gun.
etc etc etc...

................
The latest Communities Against Terrorism guidelines distributed by the FBI to military surplus stores in the state of Colorado outline specific activities that owners and retail associates should look for when trying to spot terrorist related activity. Much of the suspicious activity listed describes the behavior and shopping list of any modern day prepper:

What should I consider suspicious?

People or groups who:

Provide identification that is inconsistent or suspect or demand identity “privacy”
Insist on paying with cash or uses credit card(s) in different names
Make suspicious comments regarding anti-US, radical theology, vague or cryptic warnings that suggests or appear to endorse the use of violence in support of a cause
Demonstrate interest in uses that do not seem consistent with the intended use of the item being purchased
Possess little knowledge of intended purchase items
Make bulk purchases of items to include:
-Weatherproofed ammunition or match containers
-Meals Ready to Eat
-Night Vision Devices; night flashlights; gas masks
-High capacity magazines
-Bi-pods or tri-pods for rifles
.................................................. .............


http://www.thesurvivalistblog.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/110812-2ColoradoFBISurplusStoreHandout.jpg

Turk, im not slamming you at all. Thanks for posting this article. You're just the messenger here. However, i have suspicion with the author of that article and with "Oath Keepers" and their president.... I flat out dont buy this story. What "Federal agents?". From what "agency" were the "men in black" from?

I flat out dont believe it. I could possibly see that hypothetically lets assume its the FBI and they have been following a case about some "home grown Timothy McViegh wanna-be" martyr. Perhaps they know this "suspect" shops at the LDS food supply store and they are trying to get more detailed info and positively identify their man. If they could get a copy of a personal check (with an address and name etc) from the suspect, coupled with his bank info for a future search warrant, then i can see that scenario plausible. Law enforcement probably cant go into the store and ask to see only "one check" or credit card purchase info from one guy withour "burning" their case. So, they seek the store owner to help and "volunteer" any kind of info of "all" customers as a ruse.

Simply wanting a list of customers just to determine whos buying food is silly. Now i admit that i could be wrong about my own theory, but it just seems like more doomsday internet bogus paranoia.

After all, the "article" came from the "oath keepers" own website! Tell me thats not a "slanted" story. That like believing in "Pravda" as the absolute truth when they published and swore that the former Soviet Union was a "good and friendly peace loving regime."

TheChief
12-08-2011, 7:38 PM
Cr@p they must love me then

However, no tripod for my rifle, just the M2, but not my rifle :chris:

KevinB
12-08-2011, 8:06 PM
What a load of crap.

skyscraper
12-08-2011, 8:11 PM
Damn they must have this forum on 24/7 watch then! Dont post a SHTF thread or you're a terrorist! lol

Don Edmondson
12-08-2011, 8:49 PM
Simple they want the sales tax was told that from the same church i =n Idaho last year. that why they want records without them they cant prove sales for profit. Don

TrailerparkTrash
12-08-2011, 9:40 PM
What a load of crap.

I have to second this motion. Posting here on this thread some really pretty "warning" posters from the FBI or anyone else is being paranoid. Again, back to the OP's original posting, the article doesn't say anything except that a "bulk food place" claims, "....SHHHHHHHH, {whispering} ...THE FEDERAL AGENTS, MEN IN BLACK CAME IN HERE AND WANTED TO SEE A LIST OF PEOPLE WHO ARE BUYING LARGE AMOUNTS OF FOOOOOD...SHHHHHHHHHHHHH" Totally lame. I bet it was the same "FEDERAL AGENTS" that are also looking into the person that "leaked" out the TRIPLE TOP SECRET CLASSIFIED information that Area-51 does in fact really exists and that D.B. Cooper is in charge of the dang place! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Posting a poster from the Feds telling retailers these are some "things" to watch out for regarding "whacko's" is totally different than getting all spooked up about "FEDS"
wanting a list of who's buying corn flakes and pinto beans in bulk!

This stuff is almost akin to the crap the U.S. Government said during WWII that all Japanese-Americans were part of the "Land of the Rising Sun" and couldn't be trusted.

Where's my tin foil hat?

TheChief
12-09-2011, 6:54 AM
Here's your hat :TFH:

If there is any truth to an actual request being made, it is not to keep tabs on people, rather more likely for a specific investigation like TPT mentioned.

Put down your hat and step away from the tin foil please.

Turk
12-09-2011, 7:21 AM
Turk, im not slamming you at all. Thanks for posting this article. You're just the messenger here. However, i have suspicion with the author of that article and with "Oath Keepers" and their president.... I flat out dont buy this story. What "Federal agents?". From what "agency" were the "men in black" from?

I flat out dont believe it. I could possibly see that hypothetically lets assume its the FBI and they have been following a case about some "home grown Timothy McViegh wanna-be" martyr. Perhaps they know this "suspect" shops at the LDS food supply store and they are trying to get more detailed info and positively identify their man. If they could get a copy of a personal check (with an address and name etc) from the suspect, coupled with his bank info for a future search warrant, then i can see that scenario plausible. Law enforcement probably cant go into the store and ask to see only "one check" or credit card purchase info from one guy withour "burning" their case. So, they seek the store owner to help and "volunteer" any kind of info of "all" customers as a ruse.

Simply wanting a list of customers just to determine whos buying food is silly. Now i admit that i could be wrong about my own theory, but it just seems like more doomsday internet bogus paranoia.

After all, the "article" came from the "oath keepers" own website! Tell me thats not a "slanted" story. That like believing in "Pravda" as the absolute truth when they published and swore that the former Soviet Union was a "good and friendly peace loving regime."

No offense taken . Any time I read/post anything its up to the reader to decide. I always go by what Mom always said "Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see".

problemchild
12-09-2011, 9:30 AM
Why would Oathkeepers post FUD? These are the guys watching our 6. Police, military and fireman who swore not to jack with us if ordered to do so.

I simply cannot believe that O-K is posting lies.

meaty-btz
12-09-2011, 9:35 AM
Everyone has an agenda.

I am not worried about being on a terrorist list, since in 1996 I had my name and data taken down coupled with a radio call about a terrorist (me). I am on a list some where.. We are all on a list somewhere. Compulsive data collectors collect data.

problemchild
12-09-2011, 9:55 AM
Watch this video if you watch none other.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HRZfvtYlCY


FF to 1:00 mins
http://youtu.be/DInGq0mIWro

On a side note........

"Several days ago, with 93 out of 100 Senators in Congress voting for the passage of the National Defense Authorization Act of 2012 containing provisions declaring the governments power to rendition U.S. Citizens to an unknown fate without charge or trial,"

Another side note....

"So it appears the government is stepping up its preparations. The government is now actively seeking contractors to provide services at FEMA camps across the country. This is scarier considering that the Senate just passed the National Defense Authorization Act which allows for the detainment of American citizens who are deemed terrorists. What is it they’re preparing for? Is this an attempt to lock up American citizens who disagree with them?"

Another side note.......

Food now?
http://www.shtfplan.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/foodnow1.jpg

http://www.shtfplan.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/5regions.gif

"“I just left my neighbors house. Devon is with the National Guard for this area. He just got home from a EDRE (emergency deployment readiness exercise) at the armory. He said that during the exercise 3 companies of infantry were polled by questionare about the drill and it’s purpose. One of the questions was, will you as a member of the Nat. Guard use lethal force against the American public if ordered to do so? One of the men stepped forward and refused to take the poll and explained that it was a moral judgement on his part and that he could not do so. He then placed his weapon on the ground and fell in behind the formation. Devon said it was like a waterfall, Every member layed their weapons on the deck and fell in beside the one lone specialist. This included ALL NCO’s, STAFF NCO’s and SENIOR NCO’s. The only people left in front of the original formation was 3 Capt’s. 2 Lt’s and the BN Commander who was so upset he started having chest pains from yelling and screaming about court martials and disbandment of the unit into other units. Devon is a Mstr.Sgt and he went with his troops and told them that he could not be prouder of any of them. He was floating while he was telling me this. Maybe we have more than just hope on our side. SEMPER FI. my thanks for the honor of being here Robert.”"

problemchild
12-09-2011, 10:46 AM
Everyone has an agenda? Who and what are you talking about? How so?

Im not concerned with "the list" as much as what they do with "the list" when they feel the time is right.



Everyone has an agenda.

I am not worried about being on a terrorist list, since in 1996 I had my name and data taken down coupled with a radio call about a terrorist (me). I am on a list some where.. We are all on a list somewhere. Compulsive data collectors collect data.

FatCity67
12-09-2011, 12:24 PM
Always like seeing that Vigilant Guard training photo every now and again pop up.

How come the photos showing the Guard practicing to help the wounded and protecting against vandalism/looting never gets posted.

:rolleyes:

Anyone got new ones of the training from 2011?

thenodnarb
12-09-2011, 12:35 PM
I have to second this motion. Posting here on this thread some really pretty "warning" posters from the FBI or anyone else is being paranoid. Again, back to the OP's original posting, the article doesn't say anything except that a "bulk food place" claims, "....SHHHHHHHH, {whispering} ...THE FEDERAL AGENTS, MEN IN BLACK CAME IN HERE AND WANTED TO SEE A LIST OF PEOPLE WHO ARE BUYING LARGE AMOUNTS OF FOOOOOD...SHHHHHHHHHHHHH" Totally lame. I bet it was the same "FEDERAL AGENTS" that are also looking into the person that "leaked" out the TRIPLE TOP SECRET CLASSIFIED information that Area-51 does in fact really exists and that D.B. Cooper is in charge of the dang place! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Posting a poster from the Feds telling retailers these are some "things" to watch out for regarding "whacko's" is totally different than getting all spooked up about "FEDS"
wanting a list of who's buying corn flakes and pinto beans in bulk!

This stuff is almost akin to the crap the U.S. Government said during WWII that all Japanese-Americans were part of the "Land of the Rising Sun" and couldn't be trusted.

Where's my tin foil hat?

You make a lot of straw man arguments. Its oh so easy to tear down that straw man isn't it? Will you eat your words when this is confirmed? Or will you retract into the dim light of your computer monitor in your parents basement.. <---Look! I can do it too!

xgi1991
12-09-2011, 3:07 PM
Well, my brothers that are actually members of the LDS have confirmed this; they (the big bad gov) are also hitting the “big box” places and internet warehouses nationwide. I am not insinuating anything nefarious, but you might want to check your 6, and remember your rights if the spooky guys come knocking on your door. Bottom line, this is not good, this is not being done for “your” protection, and if you believe it is, just go hang yourself now.

wjc
12-09-2011, 3:30 PM
Well, my brothers that are actually members of the LDS have confirmed this; they (the big bad gov) are also hitting the “big box” places and internet warehouses nationwide. I am not insinuating anything nefarious, but you might want to check your 6, and remember your rights if the spooky guys come knocking on your door. Bottom line, this is not good, this is not being done for “your” protection, and if you believe it is, just go hang yourself now.

Good thing I recently set up a secondary cache. :innocent:

JCavSD
12-09-2011, 3:50 PM
Some guy told this other guy who told me...so it couldn't possibly be wrong! Anyway, I think I'm more leery of religious organizations sniffing around politics than I am of the Feds. Those that treat the constitution as if it's the undeniable truth, throw in a little Jesus, and are dedicated to increasing their numbers, are a little freaky to me.

problemchild
12-09-2011, 3:54 PM
Some guy told this other guy who told me...so it couldn't possibly be wrong! Anyway, I think I'm more leery of religious organizations sniffing around politics than I am of the Feds. Those that treat the constitution as if it's the undeniable truth, throw in a little Jesus, and are dedicated to increasing their numbers, are a little freaky to me.

What a bunch of BS nonsense.

JCavSD
12-09-2011, 3:56 PM
What a bunch of BS nonsense.

Why's that?

thenodnarb
12-09-2011, 4:19 PM
Why's that?

1st, you use a straw man argument:

Some guy told this other guy who told me...so it couldn't possibly be wrong!

Then you suggest that you fear the MORMONS more than you fear the Feds:
Anyway, I think I'm more leery of religious organizations sniffing around politics than I am of the Feds.
Really? The MORMONS? Have you met one?


THEN, you make this statement that presumes knowledge about the organization:
Those that treat the constitution as if it's the undeniable truth, throw in a little Jesus, and are dedicated to increasing their numbers,
...but is actually ridiculously wrong. In addition to that, you seem to have some question about the veracity of the constitution...seriously? Do you know what country you're in, and what board you're on?

And then you say:
are a little freaky to me

Why's that? What group or organization in the WORLD doesn't try to increase their numbers? Whats wrong with Jesus? Whats you're beef with the constitution?
Such stupidity, all rolled up so consisely, leads to comments like this:

What a bunch of BS nonsense.

THAT'S WHY

paul0660
12-09-2011, 4:24 PM
This is why a revolution won't happen here. I really don't want to revolt with you guys.

JCavSD
12-09-2011, 4:29 PM
You misread and assumed. I don't fear the mormons in the slightest and didn't imply that (or didn't mean to). I was referring the the Oath Keepers. In case you haven't looked at their website, it starts off like this.

"Welcome to Oath Keepers

Oath Keepers is a non-partisan association of currently serving military, reserves, National Guard, veterans, Peace Officers, and Fire Fighters who will fulfill the Oath we swore, with the support of like minded citizens who take an Oath to stand with us, to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, so help us God. Our Oath is to the Constitution."

I don't have a beef with the constitution, but I recognize that it hasn't been static. There have been more than a few amendments.

JCavSD
12-09-2011, 4:45 PM
This is why a revolution won't happen here. I really don't want to revolt with you guys.

You're to late, it's already revolting. :) Hey, Ukiah is my home town, you poor bugger.

paul0660
12-09-2011, 4:52 PM
You're to late, it's already revolting. :) Hey, Ukiah is my home town, you poor bugger.

I know Dago in and out. I betta off.

problemchild
12-09-2011, 5:12 PM
How old are you?

You misread and assumed. I don't fear the mormons in the slightest and didn't imply that (or didn't mean to). I was referring the the Oath Keepers. In case you haven't looked at their website, it starts off like this.

"Welcome to Oath Keepers

Oath Keepers is a non-partisan association of currently serving military, reserves, National Guard, veterans, Peace Officers, and Fire Fighters who will fulfill the Oath we swore, with the support of like minded citizens who take an Oath to stand with us, to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, so help us God. Our Oath is to the Constitution."

I don't have a beef with the constitution, but I recognize that it hasn't been static. There have been more than a few amendments.

JCavSD
12-09-2011, 5:15 PM
How old are you?

I'm 45, and wearing my big-boy pants. You should try on a pair.

problemchild
12-09-2011, 6:07 PM
I'm 45, and wearing my big-boy pants. You should try on a pair.

Great.... so show some respect for the Military, the Mormons and the OathKeeprs who are protecting our 6 if the shtf. Did you watch any of the 84 O.K. videos or are you talking from a completely uninformed position? Wait don't answer that I already know.

paul0660
12-09-2011, 6:17 PM
the Military, the Mormons and the OathKeeprs who are protecting our 6

Surely you need a card or a password, right?

ExAcHog
12-09-2011, 7:27 PM
Great.... so show some respect for the Military, the Mormons and the OathKeeprs who are protecting our 6 if the shtf. Did you watch any of the 84 O.K. videos or are you talking from a completely uninformed position? Wait don't answer that I already know.

+1 for sound judgement and practical thought.

Maddog5150
12-09-2011, 8:50 PM
Seriously Problem Child? That photo with the guy holding the sign that says, "Food Now" Is simulating rioters. Those National Guardsman were training to go to the balkins where the number one mission there now is presence patrols and riot control.
Also the Oathkeepers posted some BS a few days ago about a National Guardsmen being thrown in County for suposedly refusing a hypothetical order. Thats insane and follows NOTHING of military protocol what so ever. They spread fud to get people to watch them. Sensationalism at its best but aimed at a different group of people than the mainstream media.
BTW, that photo is old. I was shown that photo when I was about to go to the Balkins to show the type of training we would be doing.
Also, there is a whole discussion on that in off-topic, I suggest you check it out.

KevinB
12-09-2011, 9:08 PM
We, Mormons are not protecting anyone's 6. We are just looking out for our families and brethren. Nothing more, nothing less.

----------kevin-----------

JCavSD
12-10-2011, 5:23 AM
Great.... so show some respect for the Military, the Mormons and the OathKeeprs who are protecting our 6 if the shtf. Did you watch any of the 84 O.K. videos or are you talking from a completely uninformed position? Wait don't answer that I already know.

I wasn't intentionally showing disrespect for anyone, just stating an opinion in what I thought was an adult conversation. It seems as if you're having some reading comprehension issues. For example, I didn't say or imply anything regarding the mormons, yet you say I'm disrespecting them. Making things up to make another look bad only hurts your credibility.

wheels
12-10-2011, 9:51 AM
I wasn't intentionally showing disrespect for anyone, just stating an opinion in what I thought was an adult conversation. It seems as if you're having some reading comprehension issues. For example, I didn't say or imply anything regarding the morons, yet you say I'm disrespecting them. Making things up to make another look bad only hurts your credibility.

Quoted for credibility.

JCavSD
12-10-2011, 1:35 PM
Quoted for credibility.

For sure, I am guilty of a typo.

problemchild
12-10-2011, 2:20 PM
We, Mormons are not protecting anyone's 6. We are just looking out for our families and brethren. Nothing more, nothing less.

----------kevin-----------

So you speak for ALL Mormons?

I feel very grateful and in a way protected when the Mormons open up their food stores to me AT COST. The protecting the 6 parts was directed at the OK group, policemen who are watching over us by refusing to obey an unconstitutional order. The videos posted are talking about food storage.

M1NM
12-10-2011, 2:39 PM
Gotta love on the sheet where they should suspect you in you buy a "night flashlight" - guess you should only buy a flashlight for day use.

Fjold
12-10-2011, 2:59 PM
Why is it that all these reports from the Oathkeepers website never have specific information like the town that this occured in? Or the names or location of the National Guard units involved?

Why are all these reports confirmed by someone else in their organization but never even mentioned by any other news outlet, including the tinfoil hat ones?

problemchild
12-10-2011, 4:43 PM
Why is it that all these reports from the Oathkeepers website never have specific information like the town that this occured in? Or the names or location of the National Guard units involved?

Why are all these reports confirmed by someone else in their organization but never even mentioned by any other news outlet, including the tinfoil hat ones?

Which news organizations wear tinfoil hats?

TrailerparkTrash
12-11-2011, 4:15 AM
... Or will you retract into the dim light of your computer monitor in your parents basement.. <---Look! I can do it too!

Wow, what a nice personal attack.... "parent's basement.". Hey, Vons has a sale of Reynolds Wrap.

TrailerparkTrash
12-11-2011, 4:55 AM
Why is it that all these reports from the Oathkeepers website never have specific information like the town that this occured in? Or the names or location of the National Guard units involved?

Why are all these reports confirmed by someone else in their organization but never even mentioned by any other news outlet, including the tinfoil hat ones?

EXACTLY!!!!

Why is it that an overweight guy with a camera on youtube interviewing a "nobody" who makes an unverifiable claim is suddenly an "authority" on an issue, and is instantly perceived as a legit source of credible information? Who is this guy? His own youtube credits show his name and a title of "airborne veteran" (or something silly like that). Seriously, some of you believe this guy? Thats hillarious in my opinion!

Hey, i bet that if i had a timex wrist watch that said "Navy Seals" on it and falsely claimed that it was "genuine SEAL TEAM issue," I could sell it for a thousand bucks! It must be true if i make a production out of it and profess it to be on youtube!

People getn all worked up about someone they dont even know and what he or his clan claim, with no hard evidence to backup his claims is just commical. This logic makes me understand now how the disturbed in this world an look another in the eye and talk about their past alien abduction.

Again, wheres the proof and evidence or even credible background for the people interviewed by the OK's??? How about dates, times, exact locations, or witnesses to the claims being made! They come up with only one lone guy from the Utah National Guard out of a big company of soldiers who all "refused?". Yeah right. Only one dude, eh?

problemchild
12-11-2011, 10:12 AM
Why is it that all these reports from the Oathkeepers website never have specific information like the town that this occured in? Or the names or location of the National Guard units involved?

Why are all these reports confirmed by someone else in their organization but never even mentioned by any other news outlet, including the tinfoil hat ones?

These?

Are there more than one?

Do any of you know what OathKeeps stands for? This is a meaningful orgainzation and it joins men who are in positions of authority together to NOT infringe on our constitutional rights.

Whats wrong with that mission statement? Why pick it apart?

Do you have ------->proof<-------- that everything on his site or anything on his site is a lie? Proof, not some more FUD.

Beagle
12-11-2011, 11:14 AM
Oh just like how "federal agents" take baby from an oathkeeper right? It appears like most of their members are average joes, seem to be pretty anti LEO. Seriously though it's against the law so no federal agent would do this plus there are plenty of LDS members that are Federal Agents/local LEO/military.

Below is their website statement, which I find hard to believe.

Oath Keepers is a non-partisan association of currently serving military, reserves, National Guard, veterans, Peace Officers, and Fire Fighters who will fulfill the Oath we swore, with the support of like minded citizens who take an Oath to stand with us, to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, so help us God. Our Oath is to the Constitution

Fjold
12-11-2011, 12:25 PM
These?

Are there more than one?

Do any of you know what OathKeeps stands for? This is a meaningful orgainzation and it joins men who are in positions of authority together to NOT infringe on our constitutional rights.

Whats wrong with that mission statement? Why pick it apart?

Do you have ------->proof<-------- that everything on his site or anything on his site is a lie? Proof, not some more FUD.

There was another report on the oathkeepers website a couple of days ago where a whole National Guard left their formation when they were asked if they would shoot American citizens and how the Brigade commander had the sheriff arrest one of the enlisted men. It was all "confirmed" by one of their chapter presidents.

They would not give any details for where it happened, the unit's number, who the enlisted man who was arrested, what Sheriff's office, etc.

But, it was all "confirmed" by them.


I'm not spreading FUD, all the Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt is coming from the oathkeepers website. I just asked the question, where's the proof?

I cannot prove that something didn't happen but all I ask is where is any independent verification of these stories that they are reporting?

Why aren't you asking them for the proof? They're the one's who are posting all the scare stories.

problemchild
12-11-2011, 1:23 PM
So no proof just more trashing of the messenger?

Again why would they lie and make this stuff up when it would destroy their reputation? There mission statement is a worthy cause. Do you not agree?

Anyone who has their eyes even half way open sees the hundreds of infringements on our constitutional rights lately coming fast and furious at us. How many hundreds of stories would a person need to post here about our rights being stripped away before this would sound plausible?

Its funny. The government is destroying our freedoms left and right and half the people think the news about it is not true. Even the Jews did not believe they were being slaughtered at the time. I guess most people feel more comfortable not knowing and sticking their heads in the sand.

Anyway........ Im done here. Denial is running rampant and there is nothing that can be done about it. If O.K. says they confirmed it I believe them. You have to trust somebody and I trust people doing their best to uphold our constitutional rights. Why attack your own side???

There was another report on the oathkeepers website a couple of days ago where a whole National Guard left their formation when they were asked if they would shoot American citizens and how the Brigade commander had the sheriff arrest one of the enlisted men. It was all "confirmed" by one of their chapter presidents.

They would not give any details for where it happened, the unit's number, who the enlisted man who was arrested, what Sheriff's office, etc.

But, it was all "confirmed" by them.


I'm not spreading FUD, all the Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt is coming from the oathkeepers website. I just asked the question, where's the proof?

I cannot prove that something didn't happen but all I ask is where is any independent verification of these stories that they are reporting?

Why aren't you asking them for the proof? They're the one's who are posting all the scare stories.

rp55
12-11-2011, 2:43 PM
I am extremely leery of any report of this nature that does not identify the agency involved. I had my business visited or contacted by many various government agencies such as US Customs, US Secret Service, Santa Clara County DA and San Bernadino County Sheriff. In every single every single incident one things was made crystal clear; what agency they represented. They were not always up front about what exactly they were looking for and/or why, but we always knew who exactly they were. It was so obvious to me that I automatically suspect FUD whenever someone claims to have been visited by government agents from an unspecified agency.

That said, back in the day it was well known that the A guys in ATF used to find moonshiners by tracking bulk sugar purchases. Could be something as simple as that.

Fjold
12-11-2011, 2:44 PM
So no proof just more trashing of the messenger?

Again why would they lie and make this stuff up when it would destroy their reputation? There mission statement is a worthy cause. Do you not agree?

Anyone who has their eyes even half way open sees the hundreds of infringements on our constitutional rights lately coming fast and furious at us. How many hundreds of stories would a person need to post here about our rights being stripped away before this would sound plausible?

Its funny. The government is destroying our freedoms left and right and half the people think the news about it is not true. Even the Jews did not believe they were being slaughtered at the time. I guess most people feel more comfortable not knowing and sticking their heads in the sand.

Anyway........ Im done here. Denial is running rampant and there is nothing that can be done about it. If O.K. says they confirmed it I believe them. You have to trust somebody and I trust people doing their best to uphold our constitutional rights. Why attack your own side???


Talk about "head in the sand" ^

Every organization starts with high ideals. The US Government started that way with the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and look at the way that they lie all the time. The Communists in Russia started out with high ideals of equality for everyone and looks at the lies they passed along for years. You say that we should trust the oathkeepers because they have high ideals and I say question everyone and everything that makes these kind of statements without proof.

The oathkeepers may be the best organization to ever exist in the history of the world but I'm not going to take their word for it without proof. Right now they are failing the sniff test because they have passed along these scare stories without any proof.

scarville
12-11-2011, 3:35 PM
Updated story:

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2011/12/09/1oath-keepers-alert-federal-agents-demand-customer-lists-from-mormon-food-storage-facility/

KevinB
12-11-2011, 3:50 PM
Seems you can't believe everything from those guys.

I love the quote "from now on"

Shame !

FatCity67
12-11-2011, 3:50 PM
Ruh roh shaggy someone tattled.


Time for Jessie the Body to get involved.

HIG541
12-11-2011, 5:38 PM
Oh just like how "federal agents" take baby from an oathkeeper right? It appears like most of their members are average joes, seem to be pretty anti LEO. Seriously though it's against the law so no federal agent would do this plus there are plenty of LDS members that are Federal Agents/local LEO/military.
[/I]

very true point! LE would never dream of doing anything illegal. On their own accord or by orders from above. :rolleyes:

Beagle
12-11-2011, 6:24 PM
Again why would they lie and make this stuff up when it would destroy their reputation? There mission statement is a worthy cause. Do you not agree?


Well Alex Jones is a perfect example. Look at how many people believe him. Hell I use to watch and believe that stuff until I did my own research. Of course if your only source is Alex then that's the only thing you'll believe in.

This thread is a perfect example, look at how many calguns member believe the story without any research on their part. I would believe the story if it came from the LDS church.

As far as oathkeeper being a worthy cause.....well it's not because everyone in the military/LEO community already took an oath. So are they saying that all the non oathkeeper military/LEO are liars now since they aren't apart of oathkeeper.

Beagle
12-11-2011, 6:27 PM
very true point! LE would never dream of doing anything illegal. On their own accord or by orders from above. :rolleyes:

Of course every occupation has some bad apples. But I really don't see any bad apple going out of their way to do this. I mean the work is already hard enough and then to go on some power trip to mess with the LDS cannery.

RCJeeper
12-11-2011, 6:44 PM
It's hard to read that story without laughing.

Talk about paranoia. If I'm in charge of finding about people that may go rogue against the government then this is not where I'd start. Even with a perfect list of people stocking food, what does that get you. Even sillier, that list would only be perfect for a snapshot in time, because, are you ready for it . . . . people eat food. What a colosal bunch of BS. Who actually believes this BS?

problemchild
12-11-2011, 8:47 PM
It's hard to read that story without laughing.

Talk about paranoia. If I'm in charge of finding about people that may go rogue against the government then this is not where I'd start. Even with a perfect list of people stocking food, what does that get you. Even sillier, that list would only be perfect for a snapshot in time, because, are you ready for it . . . . people eat food. What a colosal bunch of BS. Who actually believes this BS?

Maybe people who stock food also stock guns and ammo.

The story was pulled because the Mormon who reported the story either (A) lied or (B) got threatened or (C) got scared or (D) the Mormon church got so many calls that they told the individual to recant and go silent.

"We have pulled this story about the Mormon cannery being visited by federal agents because the source of the information at the cannery is now denying that he ever told us that event occurred.

From now on, we will NOT post any such story based on what we are told by other people unless, and until, they are willing to go on video or at least on an audio recording with their info. That way, in case someone starts to crumble under the public attention or other pressures, and wants to deny what they told us, we have video or audio proof."

Two things are fact.

1.) There was an individual who reported the incident
2.) OK had spoken to the individual and verified his story.

Plenty of really bad things coming down the pipe at us right now regarding our loss of freedom. You can laugh all you want but the main duty of any citizen living in the free (for now) country of the United States is to be ever vigilant of our freedoms and the constant pressure to erode them from our own government and to fight back.

Of course you may have a different plan. The easy path is to dismiss anything that doesn't fit into your same as it always was box. The news stories I read everyday have me shaking my head wondering which country I live in. Its definitely not the country I grew up in anymore.

JCavSD
12-12-2011, 3:55 AM
No surprise, both the story and the way it was presented seemed pretty feeble from the get-go. This type of misinformation, whether intentional or unintentional, is a good example of why we need to think critically about everything we read/hear/see. I'm glad they're changing their policy regarding getting statements from "eye witnesses".

JCavSD
12-12-2011, 4:13 AM
Two things are fact.

1.) There was an individual who reported the incident
2.) OK had spoken to the individual and verified his story.


I just want to point out that speaking to the person who told the story is not the same as verifying the truth and accuracy of the story. That's just verifying that someone told the story, not that the story is true. Getting some sort of independent confirmation from other sources would help lend credibility. Lot's of people have gone on record as having Bigfoot and UFO encounters, and that's a fact...a fact that doesn't mean that any of these encounters ever actually happened.

This type of thing always makes me think of that old Twilight Zone episode titled "The Monsters Are Due on Maple Street". Anyone remember that one? Friends and neighbors turning on each other due to misinformation that brought out the worst in people.

problemchild
12-12-2011, 9:20 PM
I just want to point out that speaking to the person who told the story is not the same as verifying the truth and accuracy of the story. That's just verifying that someone told the story, not that the story is true. Getting some sort of independent confirmation from other sources would help lend credibility. Lot's of people have gone on record as having Bigfoot and UFO encounters, and that's a fact...a fact that doesn't mean that any of these encounters ever actually happened.

This type of thing always makes me think of that old Twilight Zone episode titled "The Monsters Are Due on Maple Street". Anyone remember that one? Friends and neighbors turning on each other due to misinformation that brought out the worst in people.

So with that logic lets run another scenario.

Im driving by your house and see someone breaking in the window. I park down the street and record the lic plate number. I see two people leaving your house with your guns, computers, gold coins etc.

You, being the skeptic, would dismiss what I told you and move along looking for the criminals because Im just one person and my story cannot be corroborated?

Ummm OK?

Lets cough up another story.

Im in Arizona and see a man buying 20 Ar-15's. I go outside and watch him load them in a van. With my curiosity peaked I follow him to the border. While Im driving and following the buyer I notice a black suburban also following the buyer. Later after the buyer goes into mexico I follow the suburban to a starbucks where I see two "federal Agents" getting out. I later post the incident on the internet and speculate the Federal Government is allowing guns to walk into mexico for some unknown reason. I speculate that maybe they are attempting to cause gun crimes to go up with these types of weapons so they can later create outcry and ban our guns.

Does any of that sound plausible or like some lame internet BS story?

You decide......

Anyone can dismiss anything at any time. Whats real? Whats not? I find many current events hard to believe whether I believe them or not. I was able to abandon the "Normalcy Bias" and start looking deeper at every story.

JCavSD
12-13-2011, 4:25 AM
So with that logic lets run another scenario.

Im driving by your house and see someone breaking in the window. I park down the street and record the lic plate number. I see two people leaving your house with your guns, computers, gold coins etc.

You, being the skeptic, would dismiss what I told you and move along looking for the criminals because Im just one person and my story cannot be corroborated?

Ummm OK?

Lets cough up another story.

Im in Arizona and see a man buying 20 Ar-15's. I go outside and watch him load them in a van. With my curiosity peaked I follow him to the border. While Im driving and following the buyer I notice a black suburban also following the buyer. Later after the buyer goes into mexico I follow the suburban to a starbucks where I see two "federal Agents" getting out. I later post the incident on the internet and speculate the Federal Government is allowing guns to walk into mexico for some unknown reason. I speculate that maybe they are attempting to cause gun crimes to go up with these types of weapons so they can later create outcry and ban our guns.

Does any of that sound plausible or like some lame internet BS story?

You decide......

Anyone can dismiss anything at any time. Whats real? Whats not? I find many current events hard to believe whether I believe them or not. I was able to abandon the "Normalcy Bias" and start looking deeper at every story.

Two things about all that.

I think it was Carl Sagan who said, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." Homes get broken into all the time, it's a very common event. If you claim to witness such an event it may or may not be true, but based on the sheer known quantity of break ins your story would certainly be plausible and worthy of investigation. The story told by the Oathkeepers was both shallow (lacking in detail) and fairly extraordinary, and wasn't worth more than casual consideration in my mind. Extraordinary events do happen, and to be considered credible they require more than "Hey man, my cousin Billy-Bob saw X and X doing X." At least that's how I try to weed out the potential BS.

Second, any organization that makes bold accusations against the government, and uses those accusations to garner support, should feel a moral responsibility to do their best to pass on true things and weed out false things. Obviously, the Oathkeepers didn't did that. Glad they owned up to it.

We have enough "real" reasons to be unhappy about the state of our government, we don't need made-up reasons thrown into the mix just to stir the pot.

dustoff31
12-13-2011, 4:49 AM
No surprise, both the story and the way it was presented seemed pretty feeble from the get-go. This type of misinformation, whether intentional or unintentional, is a good example of why we need to think critically about everything we read/hear/see. I'm glad they're changing their policy regarding getting statements from "eye witnesses".

Exactly.

I must say that considering the makeup of their organization, this is particulary poor. One would think that collecting facts, verifying sources, confirming stories, nailing down witnesses, etc, would all be second nature to them.

This being the second questionable story within a week, the Oathkeepers credibility has taken a big hit.

problemchild
12-13-2011, 7:30 AM
Exactly.

I must say that considering the makeup of their organization, this is particulary poor. One would think that collecting facts, verifying sources, confirming stories, nailing down witnesses, etc, would all be second nature to them.

This being the second questionable story within a week, the Oathkeepers credibility has taken a big hit.

Exactly why I trusted their story.

And there is this which is true.
"It turns out authorities have been poking around and asking Tennesseans about their emergency preparations, even going door-to-door with questionnaires."

People say the story was vague yet the term "Federal Agent" is used almost on a daily basis on the news and internet. Type in "federal Agent raid" in google and see how many millions of pages come up.
Second OK did mention the state and organization and gender of the person. Since there are only TWO LDS canneries in TN and one has a FEMALE manager it leaves one store in question.
The manager of that store did relate the factual or fictional story to OK and then reneged for whatever reason.

I have a friend of mine higher up in the church looking into the cannery to find out what really happened.

People say extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof well what proof do we have for many of the extraordinary stories coming down the pipes in the last few years?
I mean we have an Illegal Alien Muslim with terrorists ties and communist friends running the most powerful country in the world, or do we? Sound extraordinary?

Some think the moon landing never happened. Enough extraordinary proof?
Some think 911 was a coverup, extraordinary proof?
Billions think the Holocaust never happened, extraordinary proof?

Where does it end? Whats enough? Who do you believe?

RCJeeper
12-13-2011, 8:55 AM
Exactly why I trusted their story.

And there is this which is true.
"It turns out authorities have been poking around and asking Tennesseans about their emergency preparations, even going door-to-door with questionnaires."

People say the story was vague yet the term "Federal Agent" is used almost on a daily basis on the news and internet. Type in "federal Agent raid" in google and see how many millions of pages come up.
Second OK did mention the state and organization and gender of the person. Since there are only TWO LDS canneries in TN and one has a FEMALE manager it leaves one store in question.
The manager of that store did relate the factual or fictional story to OK and then reneged for whatever reason.

I have a friend of mine higher up in the church looking into the cannery to find out what really happened.

People say extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof well what proof do we have for many of the extraordinary stories coming down the pipes in the last few years?
I mean we have an Illegal Alien Muslim with terrorists ties and communist friends running the most powerful country in the world, or do we? Sound extraordinary?

Some think the moon landing never happened. Enough extraordinary proof?
Some think 911 was a coverup, extraordinary proof?
Billions think the Holocaust never happened, extraordinary proof?

Where does it end? Whats enough? Who do you believe?

So PC, do you believe the story?

Avarice
12-13-2011, 9:06 AM
I believe it enough to pay cash at the storehouse from now on.

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2011/12/09/1oath-keepers-alert-federal-agents-demand-customer-lists-from-mormon-food-storage-facility/

The word of the Oathkeepers is good enough for me.

JCavSD
12-13-2011, 10:35 AM
People say extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof well what proof do we have for many of the extraordinary stories coming down the pipes in the last few years?
I mean we have an Illegal Alien Muslim with terrorists ties and communist friends running the most powerful country in the world, or do we? Sound extraordinary?

Some think the moon landing never happened. Enough extraordinary proof?
Some think 911 was a coverup, extraordinary proof?
Billions think the Holocaust never happened, extraordinary proof?

Where does it end? Whats enough? Who do you believe?

I'm really having trouble wrapping my brain around your points, or if you're even trying to make real points at all. I could be wrong, but it seems as if you're minimizing the importance of proof when evaluating whether or not a claim is true. Can you clarify?

problemchild
12-13-2011, 11:51 AM
I'm really having trouble wrapping my brain around your points, or if you're even trying to make real points at all. I could be wrong, but it seems as if you're minimizing the importance of proof when evaluating whether or not a claim is true. Can you clarify?

Sure...

But first lets read this headline.........

...............
Update: News channel 5 confirms door-to-door questioning of food supplies in Tennessee while canneries downplay initial reports

Sunday, December 11, 2011
by Mike Adams, the Health Ranger
Editor of NaturalNews.com (See all articles...)


(NaturalNews) Citizens in Tennessee are being asked by government workers to divulge details about their preparedness plans in a door-to-door "assessment" program reported by Janet Kim from local news channel 5 (http://www.newschannel5.com/story/1...). During this assessment, government workers ask residents 22 questions about their preparedness status. NaturalNews has confirmed through reliable sources that these include questions about emergency food supplies.

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/034381_Tennessee_cannery_stored_food.html#ixzz1gSG Uch5g

..............................

The change in this first-hand account has many people scratching their heads, as this story was confirmed face-to-face by none other than Oath Keepers Tennessee Chapter President Sgt. Rand Cardwell, a USMC veteran (Desert Storm) with a solid reputation. There is virtually no possibility that Sgt. Rand Cardwell invented this story, as he is widely known to be a trustworthy individual who honorably served his country as a U.S. Marine.

A far more likely explanation may be found in the Patriot Act itself, which features a sneak-and-peek with a gag order provision that allows federal agents to conduct searches of any facility and then gag the witnesses from speaking about it for at least one year

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/034381_Tennessee_cannery_stored_food.html#ixzz1gSH 3itxn
.................................................. .................................................. .......

The bottom line is that government officials are taking a curious interest all of a sudden in the preparedness status of the American people. Whether for innocent reasons or for nefarious purposes, this is a new focus of both state and federal government, and it indicates that somebody up the chain of command is very interested in knowing WHO is preparing and HOW they're getting prepared.

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/034381_Tennessee_cannery_stored_food.html#ixzz1gSM MKb1P
.................................................. ......


Hmmmmm.....
So we believe channel 5 stating that the Federal Agents are going door to door in TN, the same state the LDS cannery is in and at the same time, asking about food supplies. But we are not to believe that one or more of those "federal agents" dropped by the LDS cannery and asked about food storage buyers. Wait Im confused....

Now back to your question to clarify. Can we agree there is plenty of smoke near this story?

I said at what point is proof proof?
How much proof is necessary?
Are pictures and video enough?
Do we need DNA?
Pictures can be faked and photoshop'ed.
Video can be faked.
People can lie.
Governments can threaten people into silence.
Do any of you believe in God? Why? There is NO proof!
Are all the religions wrong?
Look how quick the naysayers latched onto the retraction story. Why did they believe that story? How do we know the retraction means it never happened? Maybe the retraction means the LDS manager was under duress to keep quiet. It is easy for "Federal Agents" to get someone to change their story when they shove a rifle muzzle in your mouth, your wife’s mouth or one of you kids. Not saying that happened at LDS but we all know it has happened thousands of times elsewhere.


What I'm asking and saying is do not be so hasty to discount something. Of the three sources involved (the Feds, LDS Church and O.K.) I know which I trust and don't trust. Someone said above that extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof. I put forward this is not extraordinary by any means. We all have heard of this type thing happening on a daily basis just like a house getting broken into.
I trusted the source because they are, in my opinion, a worthy entity.

ExAcHog
12-13-2011, 2:35 PM
^^^^^^EXACTLY...! Put a fork in this one..It's done.

Calplinker
12-13-2011, 3:06 PM
Some here seem to jump to the conclusion that the government has sinister intent when asking people about their preparedness.

Saw a billboard today encouraging people to develop an emergency plan, stock up on supplies and to visit: www.ready.gov for ideas and guidance on preparing for an emergency. Not a bad idea here in earthquake and disaster prone California.

The company I work for has a program where we encourage people to prepare for emergencies and one of the resources we point them to is the website listed above. Our local country government does the same thing for businesses.

Heck, even the news story referenced above says that the people asking the questions are the "good guys" from a local state agency.

Here's a quote from the story:

"During this assessment, government workers ask residents 22 questions about their preparedness status. NaturalNews has confirmed through reliable sources that these include questions about emergency food supplies.

Fortunately, this effort is being done by a Tennessee group of state employees who are widely recognized throughout the preparedness community as being "good guys" who are truly just trying to help people get prepared."

I see nothing sinister here. :confused:

Ripon83
12-13-2011, 3:11 PM
The blog I read has posted an update to say the report was bogus and BS.

Calplinker you are so right. I know our government has its flaws, but it can still do good if it wants too or tries. Too many have given up on the government - sad.

problemchild
12-13-2011, 3:19 PM
("Sinister intent")= fast and furious was a false flag OP by the Feds to ban our semi-auto rifles, read enemies foreign and domestic)



I hear you. Let me ask a question.

Why ask us to prepare then send out a flyer declaring people who prepare "Possible Terrorists"? Why are they going door-to-door pounding on peoples doors asking how much food they have? What possible reason could they have to do that? Why did they GPS tag everyone's front door in America this last census? Why is the government so afraid of its citizens it is furiously working on a bill to have the military arrest us on US soil as terrorists and detain us indefinitely without trial?

Think about this....

Information was released right away.
Information spread
Big story
Information was retracted
Publisher gets gun shy to post any more information
Maybe it was a test to see how we react and defame O.K.?

"We believe this was a test to see how people would react to a big government intrusion on privacy rights".--Sysops
http://youtu.be/0jRXC45FKy0




So if I buy "bulk items" including "MRE's" watch out for me. Good thing I am prepared huh?
Do any of you see any problems with any of this?
http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/list-of-concerns-447x620.jpg





Some here seem to jump to the conclusion that the government has sinister intent when asking people about their preparedness.

Saw a billboard today encouraging people to develop an emergency plan, stock up on supplies and to visit: www.ready.gov for ideas and guidance on preparing for an emergency. Not a bad idea here in earthquake and disaster prone California.

The company I work for has a program where we encourage people to prepare for emergencies and one of the resources we point them to is the website listed above. Our local country government does the same thing for businesses.

Heck, even the news story referenced above says that the people asking the questions are the "good guys" from a local state agency.

Here's a quote from the story:

"During this assessment, government workers ask residents 22 questions about their preparedness status. NaturalNews has confirmed through reliable sources that these include questions about emergency food supplies.

Fortunately, this effort is being done by a Tennessee group of state employees who are widely recognized throughout the preparedness community as being "good guys" who are truly just trying to help people get prepared."

I see nothing sinister here. :confused:

problemchild
12-13-2011, 3:30 PM
The blog I read has posted an update to say the report was bogus and BS.

Calplinker you are so right. I know our government has its flaws, but it can still do good if it wants too or tries. Too many have given up on the government - sad.

Correction. The blog said the person personally interviewed by O.K. has retracted his story. How would the blog you read know anything. Why would you trust that post and not the other?

Big difference.

dustoff31
12-13-2011, 3:53 PM
I hear you. Let me ask a question.

("Sinister intent")= fast and furious was a false flag OP by the Feds to ban our semi-auto rifles, read enemies foreign and domestic)


Why ask us to prepare then send out a flyer declaring people who prepare "Possible Terrorists"? Why are they going door-to-door pounding on peoples doors asking how much food they have? What possible reason could they have to do that? Why did they GPS tag everyone's front door in America this last census? Why is the government so afraid of its citizens it is furiously working on a bill to have the military arrest us on US soil as terrorists and detain us indefinitely without trial?

So if I buy "bulk items" including "MRE's" watch out for me. Good thing I am prepared huh?
Do any of you see any problems with any of this?
http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/list-of-concerns-447x620.jpg


According to this news report from TN. The survey was in random areas of the city, not a door to door survey of everyone. The survey was conducted by the county health department, not the feds. And asked things like, "What special assistance would you need in the event of an emergency?"

While the price of freedom is eternal vigilance, we must be careful not to get carried away and make sure our facts are straight and are reported accurately.

For example, there is a big difference between saying "I was accosted by armed federal government thugs demanding to see my papers", when what actually happened was that the state game warden wanted to see my hunting license.

http://www.newschannel5.com/story/15948523/door-to-door-assessment-for-disaster-preparedness

Beagle
12-13-2011, 5:43 PM
This story only scratch the surface. Forgot Fox news.

I get my news and everything I need to know from Alex Jones. You guys can continue to believe what you want.

Calplinker
12-13-2011, 6:01 PM
So, to recap, Problem Child posts a message with links to "NaturalNews" then claims a vast government conspiracy to collect information on people, particularly those who prepare for disasters.

Being curious, I click on the link, where the source HE posted claims that the people asking these questions are local government officials known to be "the good guys". :rolleyes:

All I hear are wild claims with little connection to reality. People who see conspiracies all around them will always find "evidence" to suit their beliefs.

If folks who believe this sort of thing are searching for someone to free them from their paranoia, I got nothing...... :shrug:

problemchild
12-13-2011, 6:32 PM
So to recap the recap......<snip> bla bla bla..........

You really should read the Federalists Papers. I feel most Americans have no clue how the founding fathers felt about big government.

Let me quote Madison for you.

"A healthy skepticism of government institutions, particularly when they make policies injurious to civil liberties, procedural justice, and the public good. Not only competing institutions but also popular distrust restrains the authoritarian tendencies of government officials. To exercise this restraint, the public needs accurate information about government operations gained from the mass media, political parties, voluntary associations, and social networks".


So, to recap, Problem Child posts a message with links to "NaturalNews" then claims a vast government conspiracy to collect information on people, particularly those who prepare for disasters.

Being curious, I click on the link, where the source HE posted claims that the people asking these questions are local government officials known to be "the good guys". :rolleyes:

All I hear are wild claims with little connection to reality. People who see conspiracies all around them will always find "evidence" to suit their beliefs.

If folks who believe this sort of thing are searching for someone to free them from their paranoia, I got nothing...... :shrug:

JCavSD
12-14-2011, 3:28 AM
So what I think it comes down to here is that many of us have different standards for evaluating claims, people, and ideas. Some people apply skepticism fairly evenly, others tend to weigh their skepticism a little lighter in some areas and a little heavier in others. I know smart people who have released their critical thinking skills almost completely in a few specific areas...whether for the sake of feeding their confirmation bias or just because denial is more comfortable. And to summarize all that, people are weird (myself included).

softscrubb
12-14-2011, 6:36 AM
I don't want to stoke the fire.. but this has been one of the more comically enjoyable threads I have read here. Guys.. settle down. The government isn't going to be going door to door for your guns.. door to door for your food....

problemchild
12-14-2011, 12:19 PM
I don't want to stoke the fire.. but this has been one of the more comically enjoyable threads I have read here. Guys.. settle down. The government isn't going to be going door to door for your guns.. door to door for your food....

I must have missed that part? Here is what I read......

LDS cannery was asked about customer list by some sort of government employee.

The incident was reported to O.K. and the story was confirmed face-to-face by Tennessee Chapter President Sgt. Rand Cardwell, a USMC veteran (Desert Storm) with a solid reputation.

A few days later the manager of the LDS cannery recanted his story.

The revoked story was posted and people started claiming BS to the original story.

CDC (Federal agency) is funding and requiring TN state employees to go DOOR TO DOOR in 30 residential neighborhoods asking personal questions one of which is how much food do you have on hand.

So we know that during the same time frame and in the same state as the door to door CDC food checks we had or possibly had one or more employees of the federal government or state government stop by the LDS cannery.

Those are the facts and the cliffnotes of this thread.

So with that said I think we have beat the horse dead. Signing off..... Form your own opinion!

3GunFunShooter
12-14-2011, 12:23 PM
Do you really trust the government? I don't. I use to. Thanks for posting this PC!

Cali-Shooter
12-14-2011, 12:27 PM
Is there any other news source for this other than Oathkeepers? I'm seeing a pattern for sensationalist articles from them, and it's unreputable and dubious in being truthful.

JCavSD
12-14-2011, 2:50 PM
I don't want to stoke the fire.. but this has been one of the more comically enjoyable threads I have read here. Guys.. settle down. The government isn't going to be going door to door for your guns.. door to door for your food....

Agreed, pretty amusing. Goes to show how different our brains are wired.

POLICESTATE
12-14-2011, 2:58 PM
Is there any other news source for this other than Oathkeepers? I'm seeing a pattern for sensationalist articles from them, and it's unreputable and dubious in being truthful.

I must agree that I would want more sources for something like this. However I would be remiss if I didn't point out that the articles coming out of the MSM are hardly less sensationalist themselves so at this point does it really make much difference?