PDA

View Full Version : Is 300 AAC worth getting in CA?


jingerale
12-08-2011, 10:25 AM
So I already have a 5.56, would like something that I can use for hog hunting in the near future.

AR10 is out of the question, too heavy and too expensive.

So the 2 options I think will work for me is either a 700 SPS in .308 or a new upper in 300 AAC Blackout.

So before even getting into bolt or semi, should the 300 AAC even be an option? I've been doing a lot of online reading and it seems there's a large crowd that claims the 300 AAC is designed for short barrel and suppressed configuration. If I don't plan on using a suppressor, don't bother with the 300 AAC platform.

Any comments?

ElvenSoul
12-08-2011, 10:26 AM
Hell ya that will take a hog and a deer.

chicoredneck
12-08-2011, 10:33 AM
If you want a hunting cartridge for your ar15 there are lots of options. The 300 aac will work, but is limited by its ballistics. The wssm cartridges are the most powerful magazine fed cartridges avilable for the ar15 if you want something that is a true full powered rifle cartridge. There is nothing wrong with the 223 either other than a limitation on range, just like the rest of the medium powered cartridges that fit the platfrom.

Nathan Krynn
12-08-2011, 10:37 AM
Have you thought about the 6.8 spcII?

We have three members of our team that love the 300 blackout and have used it for hunting as well as suppressed.

I personally like the 6.8 batter though for strictly hunting. Just has better ballistics for that purpose IMHO.

Coyote Brown
12-08-2011, 10:38 AM
With no need for sub-sonic what so ever, a 7.62X40 WT is a better hunting round. Same bolt and .223 base case ,with a minor shoulder trim on the 556 mag to get reliable feed.

AR performance quit with making the .300acc on lack of performance. They have lots of tests and real product feedback.

Cypriss32
12-08-2011, 11:15 AM
Im up in the air about what one to get. 7.62x40wt or the 300blk. My choices are swayed based on whats easiest to load for, feeds better and allows my to use 223 brass.

jingerale
12-08-2011, 11:24 AM
thanks for the replies so far, I see that I have much much more reading to do.

What attracts me about the 300 AAC is the ability to use the same bolt and mags. I don't think I will ever go beyond 300 yards, hog or paper.

back to doing more reading. thanks!

greybeard
12-08-2011, 11:39 AM
There is an article in this months Guns and Ammo. It may be on their website

Cypriss32
12-08-2011, 12:49 PM
After doing a little reading and searching...... I can make 300 AAC brass from 223 stuff. I can also get dies cheaper and brass is ALOT cheaper then 7.62x40.
Plus I can get a good 16" barrel eather CMMG or Stoner from midway for 200-220.00
Cant beat this setup. Just need to find a load to shoot 147 or 150gr FMJS.

joelogic
12-08-2011, 1:12 PM
16grs of H110 for 1700fps, for faster switch to A1680 and you can go to 20grs.

rsilvers
12-08-2011, 7:25 PM
AR performance quit with making the .300acc on lack of performance. They have lots of tests and real product feedback.

When you say "they" you mean Harrison. He was not able to make his gun shoot, so he gave up. If one guy cannot make his product work, the solution is to buy from another company. Mine shoots well:

Aimpoint Micro with no magnification at 100 yards. 5 shots.

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9564/img7117urlsmall.jpg

rsilvers
12-08-2011, 7:27 PM
After doing a little reading and searching...... I can make 300 AAC brass from 223 stuff. I can also get dies cheaper and brass is ALOT cheaper then 7.62x40.

Cheapest reformed brass:

http://www.allweatherarms.com/1000-Pieces-Processed-300-AAC-Blackout-Brass-1000-Pcs-Processed-300-Blackout.htm

Midway has new primed Remington brass for 25 cents a case.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2923270375/advanced-armament-co-aac-brass-300-aac-blackout-762x35mm-primed

And then there is loaded Remington ammo for cheap:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/547535/remington-umc-ammunition-300-aac-blackout-762x35mm-115-grain-full-metal-jacket-box-of-20

rsilvers
12-08-2011, 7:28 PM
thanks for the replies so far, I see that I have much much more reading to do.

What attracts me about the 300 AAC is the ability to use the same bolt and mags. I don't think I will ever go beyond 300 yards, hog or paper.

back to doing more reading. thanks!

It is best within 300 yards. By M4 military standards, the range is actually 460 meters. I shot it at 600 yards and hit the 3 inch X-ring with an AAC 16 inch upper and Remington Match ammo.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2011/10/horner-wins-tactical-optics-divison-at-multigun-nationals/

rsilvers
12-08-2011, 7:31 PM
With no need for sub-sonic what so ever, a 7.62X40 WT is a better hunting round. .

7.62x40mm is about 85 fps faster on average for 125 grain bullets when both are loaded to 55,000 psi. That works about to about 35 yards of additional range. So it does have an advantage. It does require special mags though, and not sure you can get special mags in CA. 300 BLK uses normal USGI mags. Also, 300 BLK is supported by over 70 companies already, and is a SAAMI standard.

rsilvers
12-08-2011, 7:32 PM
Im up in the air about what one to get. 7.62x40wt or the 300blk. My choices are swayed based on whats easiest to load for, feeds better and allows my to use 223 brass.

You can make either from 223 brass, but 7.62x40mm has a different taper in order to get the shoulder back from the smaller part of the case, so if you want the brass to match the drawing, you need to fire-form it before use.

rsilvers
12-08-2011, 7:34 PM
http://www.youtube.com/user/hickok45?feature=g-all#p/u/1/Sd_2tcj7P4s

paco ramirez
12-09-2011, 1:38 AM
+1 to everything Robert said.

Coyote Brown
12-09-2011, 8:09 AM
No special mags needed for 7.62x40WT. .223 mags just need a small trim on the shoulder.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/349043_my_first__223_to_7_62x40_wt_brass_conversio ns.html


Also the fps advantage is more I believe. Link
125-175fps.

A 125gn .308 at 2600 fps is a hunting round . That and the fact that I will never need sub sonic cabability , will lead me to the 7.62x40 WT everytime.
Why are magnums so popular? They are badder **s.

tenpercentfirearms
12-09-2011, 9:18 AM
I will be posting my .300 AAC video tomorrow most likely. It depends if I am done coaching soccer with some day light left or not. I am a wee bit excited!

I built a

Kaiser Defense KR5 Lower
RRA NM 2 Stage LPK
RRA winter trigger guard
I think I put a BAD lever on it
Hogue Grip
RRA Operator Collapsible

CMMG 16" .300 AAC BLK upper
Daniel Defense 10.0 M4 Rail
RRA 30mm Cantilever Mount
Burris SixX 2-12x50mm scope

If I have had this build for the last two weeks, why haven't I shot it yet?

Thunder Beast Arms 30P-1 had to go back to TBA for rethreading and it arrives UPS today!!!

Who says you can't shoot quiet in the PRK! Everyone get an 01 FFL!

I have some 150 grain and 180 grain Barnes TSX that I need to reload and see if I can keep them subsonic (thems some long bullets so I am not sure if I am going to get too much compression) and this will be my close up coyote calling rifle! I am going to mount some Go-Pros on it too.

Now I need to get my 6.5 Grendel re-threaded from 9/16x24 to 5/8x24 so I can use my 30P-1 on it again.

RugerNo1
12-09-2011, 10:02 AM
Thunder Beast Arms 30P-1 had to go back to TBA for rethreading and it arrives UPS today!!!

Who says you can't shoot quiet in the PRK! Everyone get an 01 FFL!

You are mean Wes! :D

killshot44
12-09-2011, 2:40 PM
Don't know if it's good for hogs, but ballistically, it is a pig. Eleven feet of drop at 600yds...:(

jingerale
12-09-2011, 3:19 PM
Don't know if it's good for hogs, but ballistically, it is a pig. Eleven feet of drop at 600yds...:(

yep, understood. Like I said, 300 yards max.

This will strictly be for light hunting within 300 yards, heck, maybe even 200 yards.

After doing more reading, I'm pretty torn between the 6.8 and 300 AAC. I have a picture of what it's going to look like, I guess the decision will come when I price everything out, including ammo. I'm definitely leaning 6.8 though.

Probably another Noveske upper. 14.5" 6.8 or 300 AAC with pinned KX-3. Troy TRX Extreme 15".

I guess the price difference will come from the extra BCG for the 6.8 and the barrel. And of course, ammo.

If I go with 6.8, Will probably use a 20 rd PMAG with a 15 rd block.

Coyote Brown
12-09-2011, 3:46 PM
If you go 6.8 you made the better choice.

A 10 round max still applies.

slick_711
12-09-2011, 4:06 PM
Having shot .300AAC both suppressed and unsuppressed, I think it's great and it is on my to-do list. But since you're in CA, you really are not getting the benefit out of the cartridge. 7.62x40WT is neat on paper but not anywhere near as easy to come by ammunition as 6.8 SPCII. If you're looking for a hog/deer gun on the AR-15 platform my first choice would be 6.8SPC.

Cypriss32
12-09-2011, 6:32 PM
You really cant go wrong with this. Lee or Hornady dies, and a barrel. If I dont like it im sure I can get close to what I put into it. Ill make a thread soon with my build and loading data. The 150gr FMJs will be my target handloads, unless I can find bulk bullets in 147.

tenpercentfirearms
12-10-2011, 10:31 PM
I found the time to shoot the .300 AAC BLK today after my soccer tournament. The Remington 220 Grain OTM Subsonic worked great. The CMMG 175 Grain Subsonic not so much. The 175 grain kept short stroking. I was able to group ten rounds with it without much trouble, but the rest of the when I was standing the 175 grain wouldn't work.

f-il1P9iJo0

I need to figure out some non-lead reloads so I can see how it does hunting. I am not sure how great it is going to work the bullets are going so slow. I found both 175 grain and 220 grain projectiles in really good shape out in my impact area.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=126019&d=1323584841
In this photo you have from left to right: the expended 175 grain, unfired Barnes 180 Grain TSX, expended 220 grain OTM, complete Remington 220 Grain OTM cartridge, unfired Barnes 180 Grain TTSX, .223 50 grain V-max. As you can see the 220 grain goes deep into that case. It definitely seems to be compressed.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=126020&d=1323584863
With the flash hider just screwed on as a thread protector.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=126021&d=1323584885
With the Thunder Beast Arms 30P-1 Suppressor.

jwkincal
12-20-2011, 6:25 PM
OK, I realize this is a bit of a necro, but I'm really stymied in my search for a particular answer about this cartridge.

AAC says that you can hunt with the 300BLK and "think of it as a .30-30..."

None of the factory loads that I have seen are much like a .30-30 in terms of deliverable energy and penetration. It seems like this cartridge ought to be capable of that kind of performance, but nobody is loading it that way?

I did find Mr. Brittingham saying the following in an interview (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/08/foghorn/an-interview-with-kevin-founder-of-aac/):

The only time I’ve noticed a difference between 300 blackout and 5.56 is we did some 175 grain bullets for the Army Marksmanship Unit and that’s for them to shoot 3-gun and it has to make a certain power factor, and so it’s 1,900 feet per second and 175 grain bullet and it recoils.

...and that DOES sound like a .30-30. But those were obviously custom loads, and he didn't go into how he had cooked them up.

Does anyone have firsthand knowledge of loads of this kind? Even in the places I usually look, there isn't a lot of consistent info (have to expect that because it is kinda new); but if this cartridge is really capable of that kind of performance, well... I might be getting rid of the 'ol .30-30 in lieu of a new upper...

ETA: Found it! Robert posted it in another forum 'way back in July... why you holdin' out rsilvers? Looks like they are using Western/Accurate powder:

http://ingunowners.com/forums/ammunition_and_reloading/157612-300_aac_blackout_load_data.html

anyracoon
12-21-2011, 8:07 PM
Took my 300 BlackOut to the range for the first time yesterday. I forgot to take my chrony so only ran a mag to check for basic functioning. I have some 147gr plinkers loaded as well as some 108gr frangibles. You also should check out http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=141 for load info.

jwkincal
12-22-2011, 5:59 PM
Yeah, found that one too after I clued into the concept of using "rsilvers" in the Google search...

After I get the wife a pistol, I may drop some cash on a 300BLK upper.

tenpercentfirearms
12-26-2011, 6:32 PM
I went and tested some non-lead loads today with no success. The good news is with my suppressor, I would drive about 2 minutes from my house and shoot into the side of a hill to check for function and then drive home and load some more. I didn't shoot anything for accuracy or chronograph. I was loading in my garage, running out to test, and coming back to try some more.

I tried Barnes 180 TSX and TTSX using H110 powder.

9.5 grains definitely doesn't cycle.

10.5 grains seemed to work for the TTSX the first time I tired it, but not later on. I then tried 11.5 and also 12.5 and 13.0. It was hit and miss with both TSX and TTSX. I am definitely not happy to where I would want to go shooting with these loads. The last batch of 13.0s I was shooting were definitely supersonic as well. It is cool to shoot them up a valley without earplugs because the gun is not loud at all, but then you hear the bullet travelling through the valley as it goes.

So I am going to order some Barnes 200 grain TTSX and TSX and see what that gets me. The factory Remington 220 Grain loads work great, so I know this gun will work.

I wonder if I should get a bolt action too.

Fjold
12-26-2011, 7:48 PM
The recommended loads seem to be 125 grain bullet at 2215 fps and a 220 grain bullet at 1,010 fps.

The fast load has over 24" drop at 300 yards

The heavy bullet load has less power and speed than my 44 magnum revolver.

This round is useful for what?

tenpercentfirearms
12-27-2011, 8:24 AM
The recommended loads seem to be 125 grain bullet at 2215 fps and a 220 grain bullet at 1,010 fps.

The fast load has over 24" drop at 300 yards

The heavy bullet load has less power and speed than my 44 magnum revolver.

This round is useful for what?

Its quiet Frank! Real quiet.

Oh and for you Dillon reloaders, I used my .223 shell plate and the M1 Carbine powder bell worked great! No need for extra parts to start reloading.

starsnuffer
12-27-2011, 8:56 AM
The .300 blackout was designed as a replacement for .45ACP and 9mm in CCW type weapons. Think HK MP5SD replacement.

It won't compare to a hunting or even a 5.56 cartridge for killing power, but it does outperform 9mm and .45acp, just as it was designed to do.

-W

TF_CAM
12-27-2011, 11:21 AM
Get a 6.8 upper... the 300 black out is bad *****, its got the same ballistics as my marlin 30-30 but out of an AR platform.. the 6.8 is just a little better though because of its 600 yard reach, i wouldnt shoot anything over 200 with the 300AAC

vta
12-27-2011, 4:45 PM
The .300 blackout was designed as a replacement for .45ACP and 9mm in CCW type weapons. Think HK MP5SD replacement.

It won't compare to a hunting or even a 5.56 cartridge for killing power, but it does outperform 9mm and .45acp, just as it was designed to do.

-W

This is only true for subsonic loads. When loaded at supersonic speeds at full pressure, it is comparable to 7.62x39 or 30-30. Not all uppers will perform well with such wide ranges of loads. Subsonic uppers are best used with a pistol length gas system while full power loads do well with carbine gas systems.

yellowfin
12-27-2011, 6:31 PM
Another key advantage to the .300 AAC is the use of 5.56 stripper clips. I would enjoy life a lot less without them.

jingerale
12-27-2011, 8:18 PM
Get a 6.8 upper... the 300 black out is bad *****, its got the same ballistics as my marlin 30-30 but out of an AR platform.. the 6.8 is just a little better though because of its 600 yard reach, i wouldnt shoot anything over 200 with the 300AAC

I'm not planning on shooting over 100 yards. I mean realistically, what is the average range for hog hunting?

I will only be shooting super sonic. I thought about the 6.8 for a long time, but within 100 - 150 yards, 6.8 doesn't really present more value. 300 AAC will be cheaper to re-load, no extra $ for mags and BCG.

I'm gonna contact Delta to see if they can make me a barrel as soon as I figure out what comp to put on. Any recommendation on a comp? I'm eyeing the AAC Brakeout or the Battlecomp BABC.

sigstroker
12-28-2011, 12:45 AM
Aren't those calibers all on the light side for hogs? I think I'd want something like a four fifty-something.

rsilvers
12-30-2011, 8:24 PM
With a 200 yard zero, you can shoot from 0 to 236 yards with +- 3.5 inches - so no sight adjustment is needed. 6.8 SPC only gives you an extra 50 yards, but the ammo costs 40% more and you can't get 30 rounds in a normal magazine - an important feature for CA.

rsilvers
12-30-2011, 8:27 PM
Aren't those calibers all on the light side for hogs? I think I'd want something like a four fifty-something.

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/7161/300aacblkbarriersummary.jpg

9 inch rifle:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/314317_239137422799387_203519439694519_690817_5792 9820_n.jpg

rsilvers
12-30-2011, 8:30 PM
No special mags needed for 7.62x40WT. .223 mags just need a small trim on the shoulder.

Also the fps advantage is more I believe. Link
125-175fps.

A 125gn .308 at 2600 fps is a hunting round . That and the fact that I will never need sub sonic cabability , will lead me to the 7.62x40 WT every time.

Special mags are needed for 7.62x40mm, unless you want reduced capacity. That is not a big deal for hunting, but less good for home defense.

The ammo is more like 85fps faster than 300 BLK, which works out to about a 30 yard additional range.