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nrifenbark
03-03-2007, 7:36 AM
Wondering whether it is legal to give a firearm to an immediate family member and what paperwork may be required. Family member lives in Arizona and legally buys a handgun there. Handgun is of a type that is legal to own in CA. Family member in AZ gives or sells the handgun to immediate family member who lives in CA. What's the law on this? Thanks.

QuarterBoreGunner
03-03-2007, 8:28 AM
Standard disclaimers apply (I am not a lawyer...blah blah blah) but interfamily transfers go something like this: up or down the family ladder is fine, laterally is a no no.
Translated - from parent to child or vise verse and you're good to go. Uncle to niece or nephew or cousins to cousin, nope.

If it's a child/parent transfer, there is no paperwork required. You could do a Voluntary Registration form (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/volreg.pdf) and send it in the the DOJ with a check for $14 if you like but it's not necessary.

And if I'm wrong I'm sure I'll be trampled by a flood of responses here in a few moments.

maxicon
03-03-2007, 8:38 AM
There are 2 sets of laws that need to be followed in this case - federal and state.

The state law says transfers between parents, grandparents, and children can be done with no FFL intervention, assuming the person receiving the gun can legally own it and the gun is legal to own in California. Long guns have no registration requirement, handguns have to be registered by mail for $19.

Federal law says any transfer between residents of different states has to go through an FFL in the receiving state. This means the gun would have to be shipped to a California FFL, DROS'd, and go through the 10 day wait. There's an exemption from The Approved List for family transfers, I believe, and you'd have to find a receiving FFL who understood that.

nrifenbark
03-03-2007, 11:04 AM
So, as a CA resident and legal owner of an CA approved handgun, I can give that handgun to my son (also a CA resident) and that's OK but he has to register it maybe at a police station, or by mail?

My daughter lives in AZ, and she may want to give me one of her handguns that is CA legal. I can pick it up next time I am there and upon my return to CA I have to register it here somehow?

I know these questions are very basic but I'd like to do things right.

Mssr. Eleganté
03-03-2007, 11:37 AM
So, as a CA resident and legal owner of an CA approved handgun, I can give that handgun to my son (also a CA resident) and that's OK but he has to register it maybe at a police station, or by mail?

Basically, yes.

The handgun must be California legal (not an assault weapon), but it doesn't have to be on the California approved roster. This kind of transfer is exempt from the safe handgun roster. And magazines of over 10 round capacity can not be included, since their transfer is forbidden. Also, your son would need a Handgun Safety Certificate first. The registration takes place by mailing a form to CalDOJ.

My daughter lives in AZ, and she may want to give me one of her handguns that is CA legal. I can pick it up next time I am there and upon my return to CA I have to register it here somehow?

No. Since you two are residents of different states, Federal law requires that the handgun transfer be processed through an FFL Dealer in the transferee's state of residence. So your daughter would have to ship the handgun to an FFL Dealer in California. That Dealer can then charge you whatever he wants to for the transfer, usually $50 to $100. Most California Dealers will think that a handgun coming from out of state needs to be on the California approved roster. As maxicon mentioned above, you'll need to find a Dealer who knows about the out of state family transfer exemption to the roster.

smogcity
03-03-2007, 12:12 PM
What about a father to son gift of a long gun with the father out of state and the son in cali? Would we still need the FFl or can he ship direct?

Mssr. Eleganté
03-03-2007, 12:16 PM
What about a father to son gift of a long gun with the father out of state and the son in cali? Would we still need the FFl or can he ship direct?

Yes. An FFL would still be required.

smogcity
03-03-2007, 3:20 PM
Thanks!

shin_en
04-23-2007, 4:25 PM
Anyone have the law/penal code/whatever that says that an out of state handgun not on the approved list can be transfered between family members?

rayra
04-23-2007, 6:58 PM
CA law has been amended. Now even immediate-family recipients of handguns must have a HSC.
PC12078 has a bunch of verbiage regarding transfer and family member, but some lawyer can dig out the nested sub-sub-sub-section reference.
And 'immediate family' is defined as parent-child or grandparent-grandchild

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/hscfaqs.php#a10

13. Do I need a Handgun Safety Certificate (HSC) if I am receiving a handgun from my mother or father?

Yes. Prior to taking possession of the handgun, you must havea valid Handgun Safety Certificate (HSC). You must also report the transfer to DOJ, pursuant to Penal Code section 12078(c)(2)(A), within 30 days of the transfer. You may obtain Form FD4544A [PDF 28 kb / 2 pg] for this purpose on this website.

I believe that 'loophole' was closed in 2005. A BHSC / HSC wasn't originally required for an interfamily gift of a handgun. Registration wasn't always, either. I believe that was put into the law in the mid/late 90s.

/our anti-gun govt, forcing all handguns to be registered, one closing 'loophole' at a time.

rayra
04-23-2007, 7:05 PM
Here's another question for the legal eagles - if your immediate family member travels into CA, bringing the firearm in question with them, visits you face to face and declares 'here's a gift' - would an FFL still be required? - there has been no 'shipment'. For all intents the person could have brought the arm along for some plinking while attending a family reunion, only choosing to make a gift of it while in the recipient's presence.

/how many Intents can dance on a BATFE pinhead?

CSDGuy
04-23-2007, 7:15 PM
Here's another question for the legal eagles - if your immediate family member travels into CA, bringing the firearm in question with them, visits you face to face and declares 'here's a gift' - would an FFL still be required? - there has been no 'shipment'. For all intents the person could have brought the arm along for some plinking while attending a family reunion, only choosing to make a gift of it while in the recipient's presence.

/how many Intents can dance on a BATFE pinhead?

Yep. It's still an interstate transfer... your immediate family member would NOT a California Resident, and therefore an FFL would be required. Transfers between certain family members of handguns only require a DOJ form be filed and a $19 check per handgun IF both family members are California Residents.

It's not the shipment that matters, it's the residency of the family members that matters.

TonyM
04-23-2007, 7:23 PM
Okay, so here's a situation I was wondering about.

1. A man gives a handgun to his father.
2. The father never fills out a form, and 6 years pass.
3. The son moves out of the state in this time.
4. The father never used or really wanted the handgun and gives it to his second son, again, no paperwork filed.
5. 3 more years pass and the second son realizes he isn't really fond of revolvers and wants to sell it. It's nothing special, but not on the list at this time.


Can another person purchase and DROS this handgun from the second son? Will the fact that it was originally DROS'd to the other son become an issue in the DROS?

Soundman
04-23-2007, 11:45 PM
Yep. It's still an interstate transfer... your immediate family member would NOT a California Resident, and therefore an FFL would be required. Transfers between certain family members of handguns only require a DOJ form be filed and a $19 check per handgun IF both family members are California Residents.

It's not the shipment that matters, it's the residency of the family members that matters.

This same situation happened to me earlier this year and I called the doj and was told that he could bring it to me personally. According to the person I spoke to, the firearm is legally his until I take posession of it so therefore he can legally bring it across state lines. The firearm must still be registered with the doj and the $19 fee sent in.

Mssr. Eleganté
04-24-2007, 5:18 AM
This same situation happened to me earlier this year and I called the doj and was told that he could bring it to me personally. According to the person I spoke to, the firearm is legally his until I take posession of it so therefore he can legally bring it across state lines. The firearm must still be registered with the doj and the $19 fee sent in.

He probably told you that because it is legal under California law. But you would still be violating Federal law.

JawBone
06-15-2007, 2:33 PM
Two part question:

1. If my father gave me a handgun in 1996 along with some 10+magazines, do I need to register the handgun or surrender the mags (everyone living in CA for entire time)?

2. If I get arrested for CCW with the handgun not registered in my name would it be charged as a misdemeanor or felony (assuming it was given to me prior to 1998 and was not legally required to be registered in my name)?

QuarterBoreGunner
06-15-2007, 2:57 PM
lemme see; ok it's perfectly legal for your dad to have given you a gun. And as long as you had the 10+ magazines in your possession before 2000, you're absolutely ok. Keep them, love them, shoot the heck out of them.

You *could* do what's called a 'voluntary registration' via a form on the DOJ site. You fill out the form, mail it back to them with a check for $14 and the handgun is then 'registered' in your name.

found it: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/volreg.pdf

As for the second question, I'll leave that to wiser members.

bwiese
06-15-2007, 3:43 PM
1. If my father gave me a handgun in 1996 along with some 10+magazines, do I need to register the handgun or surrender the mags (everyone living in CA for entire time)?

I believe you need to 'paper' the gun and you need to have an HSC card - although at that time it was the BFSC card and that may have been optional.

If you have a HSC, just go filing the DOJ paperwork and pay $19/fee and you'll be square.

The mag transfers in 1996 are definitely legal and your continued possession is fine. Enjoy.

If I get arrested for CCW with the handgun not registered in my name would it be charged as a misdemeanor or felony ?

CCW matters are 'wobblers'. A handgun not DROSed to you will most likely cause the CCW charge to be filed as a felony.

Not that you should illegally carry CCW w/o permit, but if the gun is DROSed to you that generally means a simple charge will be a misdemeanor if no other bad circumstances (drugs, violence or other crimes, etc.).

deez
06-15-2007, 3:51 PM
I've got a question related to this topic and was wondering if any of you can answer.

My friend's dad recently passed away and while cleaning out his dad's possessions, found a locked box. Inside the box, was a .38 S&W belonging to his grandfather (who had passed away a few years ago). My friend's mother is still alive and wants it out of the house.

Can he still do an intrafamilial transfer with his grandfather and dad both deceased? If not, can his mom do it? (after which, she can then transfer to my friend)

The reason why I am asking is because he is not into guns at all, and is willing to give it to me (legally, of course).

CSDGuy
06-15-2007, 4:28 PM
I've got a question related to this topic and was wondering if any of you can answer.

My friend's dad recently passed away and while cleaning out his dad's possessions, found a locked box. Inside the box, was a .38 S&W belonging to his grandfather (who had passed away a few years ago). My friend's mother is still alive and wants it out of the house.

Can he still do an intrafamilial transfer with his grandfather and dad both deceased? If not, can his mom do it? (after which, she can then transfer to my friend)

The reason why I am asking is because he is not into guns at all, and is willing to give it to me (legally, of course).
Your friend's mother SHOULD be able to sell it to you... and you'd have to go through the dealer... and get it DROS'd the legal way. Unless your friend's dad actually willed it to you specifically.

PsychoTrucker
06-16-2007, 9:40 PM
Since I just found this thread, I got a question.


My father passed away one year ago (on tuesday it'll be exactly one year) his whole collection was left to me according to the living trust/will, from what i've read so far I have to register the handguns but not the rifles?

And if so what papers/applications do I need to do this?

Thanks in advance for the help ya'll

CSDGuy
06-16-2007, 9:47 PM
Since I just found this thread, I got a question.


My father passed away one year ago (on tuesday it'll be exactly one year) his whole collection was left to me according to the living trust/will, from what i've read so far I have to register the handguns but not the rifles?

And if so what papers/applications do I need to do this?

Thanks in advance for the help ya'll

If it's truly willed to you... go to the DOJ firearms website, look for the oplaw form. Make sure you have a copy of the will... just in case.

PsychoTrucker
06-17-2007, 12:51 AM
If it's truly willed to you... go to the DOJ firearms website, look for the oplaw form. Make sure you have a copy of the will... just in case.

found the oplaw pdf file

thank you

cc56
06-17-2007, 3:08 AM
I had this whole long thing typed out, but I will just ask and see what people say. My Uncle is holding some guns that my Grandfather had before he died. My uncle is going to give them to me. Now my Grandmother is alive but has Alzheimer's, and lives in a home. So the question is, what is the best way to get the guns to me legally and cheaply?

tiki
06-17-2007, 12:26 PM
Since you two are residents of different states, Federal law requires that the handgun transfer be processed through an FFL Dealer in the transferee's state of residence. So your daughter would have to ship the handgun to an FFL Dealer in California. That Dealer can then charge you whatever he wants to for the transfer, usually $50 to $100. Most California Dealers will think that a handgun coming from out of state needs to be on the California approved roster. As maxicon mentioned above, you'll need to find a Dealer who knows about the out of state family transfer exemption to the roster.

Does anyone know the what the law section/statute is that will allow a direct family transfer for a firearm that is not on the approved roster? I asked my local dealer this morning if he would do the transfer but he said that it is not legal. I also seem to remember some discussions on other threads on this site a while ago where it was discussed as not being legal. I remember because I very badly want to own a Kimber Grand Raptor II but after reading the threads got the impression that it was not legal. The Grand Raptor II is not on the California Approved Roster.
I would like to have my mother, who lives out of state, purchase a Kimber Grand Raptor II and then give it me for christmas. I would like to print out the California law that says the firearm does not have to be on the roster so that my local dealer will receive it for me from the out of state dealer.
Thanks.

bwiese
06-17-2007, 1:32 PM
Does anyone know the what the law section/statute is that will allow a direct family transfer for a firearm that is not on the approved roster?

I asked my local dealer this morning if he would do the transfer but he said that it is not legal.

Interfamilial transfers and PPTs are exempted from 'unsafe handgun' Rostering considerations.

12132 This chapter shall not apply to any of the following: (a) The sale, loan, or transfer of any firearm pursuant to Section 12082
in order to comply with subdivision (d) of Section 12072.
(b) The sale, loan, or transfer of any firearm that is exempt from the provisions of subdivision (d) of Section 12072 pursuant
to any applicable exemption contained in Section 12078, if the sale, loan, or transfer complies with the requirements of that
applicable exemption to subdivision (d) of Section 12072.
(c) The sale, loan, or transfer of any firearm as described in paragraph (3)
of subdivision (b) of Section 12125.
.
.


This here is the PPT exemption mentioned above as 12072(d):

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12072 (d) Where neither party to the transaction holds a dealer's license issued pursuant to Section 12071, the
parties to the transaction shall complete the sale, loan, or transfer of that firearm through a licensed firearms dealer
pursuant to Section 12082.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following is where family stuff comes into play, and it does not matter to CA whether the authorized family member is inside or outside CA. [If outside CA, an FFL mediated transfer is required to comply with *Federal* interstate gun transfer laws to keep ATF happy, and is not a matter for CA law]:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12082(c) (1) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent transfer of a firearm that is not a
handgun by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other means by one individual to another if both individuals are
members of the same immediate family. (2) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent transfer
of a handgun by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other means by one individual to another if both individuals are
members of the same immediate family and both of the following conditions are met:

(A) The person to whom the firearm is transferred shall, within 30 days of taking possession of the firearm, forward by prepaid mail or deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report that includes information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question. The report forms that individuals complete pursuant to this paragraph shall be provided to them by the Department of Justice.

(B) The person taking title to the firearm shall first obtain a basic firearms safety certificate. If taking possession on or after January 1, 2003, the person taking title to the firearm shall first obtain a handgun safety certificate.

(C) The person receiving the firearm is 18 years of age or older.

(3) As used in this subdivision, "immediate family member" means any one of the following relationships:
(A) Parent and child.
(B) Grandparent and grandchild.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




I would like to have my mother, who lives out of state, purchase a Kimber Grand Raptor II and then give it me for christmas. I would like to print out the California law that says the firearm does not have to be on the roster so that my local dealer will receive it for me from the out of state dealer.


The above should demonstrate that. It doesn't say exactly, but even DOJ BoF dealer phone support will know about the family exemption and override on DROS screen.

It may be good if a letter from your mom states her name/residence, your name/residence, and that the gun is a gift. Also, until I know better, this should indeed be a real 'gift' and not "hey, buy this for me and I'll pay you later". A copy of this can/should be provided to FFL dealer for inclusion in his paper files as 'backup' justifcation for the non-Roster override.

tiki
06-17-2007, 2:51 PM
Interfamilial transfers and PPTs are exempted from 'unsafe handgun' Rostering considerations.

The above should demonstrate that. It doesn't say exactly, but even DOJ BoF dealer phone support will know about the family exemption and override on DROS screen.


Thanks! I read and reread the laws but I got the feeling that it could really go either way. I certainly got the feeling that it was legal to do, however, my dealer doesn't believe so, yet. :)
Thanks Bill.

Mssr. Eleganté
06-17-2007, 6:21 PM
I had this whole long thing typed out, but I will just ask and see what people say. My Uncle is holding some guns that my Grandfather had before he died. My uncle is going to give them to me. Now my Grandmother is alive but has Alzheimer's, and lives in a home. So the question is, what is the best way to get the guns to me legally and cheaply?

To best answer this question we need to know the State of residence for each of the parties involved.

cc56
06-17-2007, 10:19 PM
All parties live in California. My uncle with my Grandmother live in Bakersfield, and I live in Orange County. Again I am looking for the easiest, legal, and cheapest way to transferee the weapons.

Wizard99
06-17-2007, 10:41 PM
So as I understand it hand guns not on the approved "safe" list are exempted if it is a person to person transfer through a liscensed dealer.

Is there any statutory requirement that the seller of the hand gun in the PPT be a resident of the state of California?

So could my father bring handguns that he owns, that are not on the list of "safe" hand guns, into the state when he visits me and then PPT them through a California FFL? That would comply with Federal law since it went through an FFL but still be exempt from the "safe" handgun list due to PPT.

tmuller
06-18-2007, 8:44 AM
So could my father bring handguns that he owns, that are not on the list of "safe" hand guns, into the state when he visits me and then PPT them through a California FFL? That would comply with Federal law since it went through an FFL but still be exempt from the "safe" handgun list due to PPT.

This is my question as well. But if I pay him during the PPT it is a no go because it isn't a gift, right? So if I understand correct it needs to be a gift or willed, etc then it is exempt from the list? Thanks!!

bwiese
06-18-2007, 9:33 AM
So as I understand it hand guns not on the approved "safe" list are exempted if it is a person to person transfer through a liscensed dealer.

Yup. For a PPT, though, both really have to be CA residents due to DROS limitations. A guy from NV or AZ can't just drive over the border and PPT a non-Rostered handgun to a Californian. Many/most gunshops will not buy non-Rostered handguns either because they can't be sold in-state.

So could my father bring handguns that he owns, that are not on the list of "safe" hand guns, into the state when he visits me and then PPT them through a California FFL?

As (apparently) a non-CA resident, he cannot PPT these non-Rostered handguns. However, he could give them to you via inter-family transfer withough previous wait and paperwork if you were both CA residents. Since he's not a CA resident, it has to go thru an FFL to keep Feds/BATF happy (there's no exemption for transfer across state lines). CA interfamily exemption does not care about same-state issues and the DROS screen can be overridden via exemption.

Since he's your *father*, the interfamiliar gift exemption overrides Roster considerations. Exempted interfamiliar gift transferees/transferors include grandparents, parents and grandchildren. (No uncles, cousins, and things like "step"-father could be questionable.)

I don't think it's wise at this point for this to be a non-gift 'gift', either as that could be regarded as a sale, throwing this asunder.
I know 'gift letters' etc come into play in home purchases and mortgages and have special significance, so similar caution should be used here.

That would comply with Federal law since it went through an FFL but still be exempt from the "safe" handgun list due to PPT.

Again, PPT is not relevant for your situation - interfamilar transfer exemption is.

bwiese
06-18-2007, 9:39 AM
But if I pay him during the PPT it is a no go because it isn't a gift, right?
So if I understand correct it needs to be a gift or willed, etc then it is exempt from the list?

You're misusing the term PPT. PPT is transfer of gun mediated by FFL between two CA residents. (As such, the gun does not need to be on the Roster.)

An interfamilial transfer between specified parties (grandparents, parents and children/ grandchildren *only*) is nota PPT. It can happen directly, without an FFL, if both parties are in CA. The recipient must file paperwork with DOJ within a month, and pay the $19/fee. (I'm pretty sure if the firearm is a handgun, the recipient must also have a valid HSC card.)

The donor party in these non-PPT cases can be out of state: if a non-Rostered handgun is inherited or gifted, it can be transferred from outside CA thru a CA FFL - unlike Joe Blow from Nevada who just wants to sell you his nice Python, which would not be a valid PPT.

Wizard99
06-18-2007, 11:17 AM
Bill,

Is the gifted requirement a federal or state requirement?

Section 12078 about intrafamily transfers reads:
(c)(1) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent transfer of a firearm that is not a handgun by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other means by one individual to another if both individuals are members of the same immediate family.
(2) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent transfer of a handgun by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other means by one individual to another if both individuals are members of the same immediate family and both of the following conditions are met:
(A) The person to whom the firearm is transferred shall, within 30 days of taking possession of the firearm, forward by prepaid mail or deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report that includes information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question. The report forms that individuals complete pursuant to this paragraph shall be provided to them by the Department of Justice.
(B) The person taking title to the firearm shall first obtain a basic firearms safety certificate. If taking possession on or after January 1, 2003, the person taking title to the firearm shall first obtain a handgun safety certificate.
(C) The person receiving the firearm is 18 years of age or older.
(3) As used in this subdivision, "immediate family member" means any one of the following relationships:
(A) Parent and child.
(B) Grandparent and grandchild.

That reads to me that it could be a sale between father and son, grandfather and grandson.

Now if the gift requirement is federal. I don't know where that is in thr CFR. But i believe that the federal gift issue is within the same state.

Thanks for the response Bill, reading your posts are always informative.

Kelly

bwiese
06-18-2007, 11:31 AM
Bill,
Is the gifted requirement a federal or state requirement?


There's no such thing as a gift exemption for transferring a regular gun across state lines without an FFL involved. (Perhaps some handwaving C&Rs but that's a separate issue.). The only time this is bypassable is for estate/ inheritance, period. That's Federal law.

CA law includes gift exemption for not going thru FFL and for not being on Roster.

That reads to me that it could be a sale between father and son, grandfather and grandson.

Good catch. Yep, that "...other means..." phrase does appear to be besides gifting or estate, so I guess a sale would indeed be allowed. After all, it's really an interfamiliar transfer exemption, not a 'gift exemption'.


Now if the gift requirement is federal. I don't know where that is in thr CFR. But i believe that the federal gift issue is within the same state.

There is no Federal gift or interfamilar exemption, period. Any gun transfer btwn residents of separate states must go thru an FFL. The only exception under Federal law is for estate/inheritance.

Wizard99
06-18-2007, 11:50 AM
Bill,

So it seems to me that my father could sell me a handgun that he owns. Transfer through a California FFL to comply with federal law. And if I understand you correctly, the FFL could wave the DROS because of the intrafamily section in the code I quoted above. I would then of course be required to register with BOF within 30 days or reciept (cost $19).

Does this also wave the 10 day waiting period?
Does my father have to be present in the state or could he ship it to the California FFL?

bwiese
06-18-2007, 11:55 AM
Bill,

So it seems to me that my father could sell me a handgun that he owns. Transfer through a California FFL to comply with federal law. And if I understand you correctly, the FFL could wave the DROS because of the intrafamily section in the code I quoted above. I would then of course be required to register with BOF within 30 days or reciept (cost $19).

Does this also wave the 10 day waiting period?
Does my father have to be present in the state or could he ship it to the California FFL?

He could ship it to the CA FFL. I think the fact that the FFL has it to transfer it to you would mean DROS + fee required and that may also trigger waiting period but I am not sure.

Way I look at it, count your blessings this is allowed - many folks would wait 30 days and pay $100 fee to get off-list handguns.

Wizard99
06-18-2007, 12:06 PM
Bill,

I could live with the 10 day waiting period and even DROS + resonable fee if getting off-list handguns (hate the unsafe magazine disconnect requirements). Having my parents come and visit and getting an off-list handgun would be icing on the cake.
All I can say is Happy Fathers Day!!!!
Now just need to find a local FFL with resonable fees.

Kelly

bwiese
06-18-2007, 12:30 PM
I could live with the 10 day waiting period and even DROS + resonable fee if getting off-list handguns (hate the unsafe magazine disconnect requirements). Having my parents come and visit and getting an off-list handgun would be icing on the cake.

Now just need to find a local FFL with resonable fees.


Don't worry about fees, finding a knowledgable one that knows this is legal or has done it before is the issue. I am sure quite a few'll think it's an illegal PPT.

OCResident
06-25-2007, 5:04 PM
I would like to have my mother, who lives out of state, purchase a Kimber Grand Raptor II and then give it me for christmas. I would like to print out the California law that says the firearm does not have to be on the roster so that my local dealer will receive it for me from the out of state dealer.
Thanks.

Keep in mind that this could be considered a straw sale under federal law if your mother buys a Grand Raptor (filling out ATF form 4473 for a regular purchase) with the intention of giving it to you. This may not apply to private party transfers in states that do not require a form 4473 dealer transfer - i.e. Texas, where you could sell your entire gun collection at a garage sale if you wanted to.

glockman19
06-25-2007, 5:20 PM
If you want your mother to buy a gun and gift it to you it's OK. Just make sure she transfers it through an FFL. IT CAN NOT be considered a straw purchase from a family member. The law of NON DOJ listed guns is ONLY FOR SALE from a dealer NOT a Private Party Transfer. Also Both DO NOT have to be residents of the same state


http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2007.pdf

neomentat
06-25-2007, 6:55 PM
i want to give my father one of my pistols, we're both CA residents but he does not have a HSC. (does the test come in Chinese?) I looked at the family transfer form and no where on there does it ask for HSC number, only the driver's license number. Can someone clue me in on this, does he need a HSC or not?

Shane916
06-25-2007, 7:17 PM
i want to give my father one of my pistols, we're both CA residents but he does not have a HSC. (does the test come in Chinese?) I looked at the family transfer form and no where on there does it ask for HSC number, only the driver's license number. Can someone clue me in on this, does he need a HSC or not?

All in PC 12078

(A) The person to whom the firearm is transferred shall, within 30 days of taking possession of the firearm, forward by prepaid mail or deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report that includes information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question. The report forms that individuals complete pursuant to this paragraph shall be provided to them by the Department of Justice.

(B) The person taking title to the firearm shall first obtain a handgun safety certificate.

(C) The person receiving the firearm is 18 years of age or older.

(3) As used in this subdivision, "immediate family member" means any one of the following relationships:

(A) Parent and child.

(B) Grandparent and grandchild.

etc etc etc..


As for the Chinese part... I believe it is only available in English and Spanish.. but I could be wrong

EOD Guy
06-26-2007, 6:01 AM
Keep in mind that this could be considered a straw sale under federal law if your mother buys a Grand Raptor (filling out ATF form 4473 for a regular purchase) with the intention of giving it to you. This may not apply to private party transfers in states that do not require a form 4473 dealer transfer - i.e. Texas, where you could sell your entire gun collection at a garage sale if you wanted to.


No straw purchase is committed if the purchase is a legitimate gift. Also, in this case, the final transfer would be through a dealer anyway.`