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rscot
12-05-2011, 8:53 PM
So I mounted my new Aimpoint Comp ML3 on my M4 and it took 30 clicks up to get on at 50yds. Is this normal because of the height of the mount (LaRue LT150). How much internal adjustment do they have? I looked in the manual and didn't see it.

Thanks in advance

HK Dave
12-05-2011, 9:21 PM
30 clicks doesn't sound bad at all

MrPlink
12-06-2011, 1:58 AM
If its within the mechanical settings of the sight and it is zero'd why worry?

I would only be concerned if its absolutely maxed out

dieselpower
12-06-2011, 6:02 AM
first off...

you zero your rifle with the iron sights, then adjust the red to sit over your front post... you shouldn't be firing the rifle to zero a RDS.

30 clicks seems a lot to me taking into account its an Aimpoint which when leaving the factory the dot is tested to be dead center. On every CompM I owned it was nearly dead on right out of the box... I could be remembering stuff wrong...the fish that got away gets bigger every year and all.. :)

Nathan Krynn
12-06-2011, 7:12 AM
first off...

you zero your rifle with the iron sights, then adjust the red to sit over your front post... you shouldn't be firing the rifle to zero a RDS.

30 clicks seems a lot to me taking into account its an Aimpoint which when leaving the factory the dot is tested to be dead center. On every CompM I owned it was nearly dead on right out of the box... I could be remembering stuff wrong...the fish that got away gets bigger every year and all.. :)

Your right.

Do your self a favor and all ways "dot the lollipop"

It is probably due to zeroing at 50 yards too. that is an odd distance to zero unless you plan to just sit at a 50 yard bench.

Dhena81
12-06-2011, 7:26 AM
If its within the mechanical settings of the sight and it is zero'd why worry?

I would only be concerned if its absolutely maxed out

Agreed

Your not going to be constantly adjusting your POI you set it and then use Kentucky windage for whatever your trying to hit that's not in your set zero.

Dhena81
12-06-2011, 7:46 AM
first off...

you zero your rifle with the iron sights, then adjust the red to sit over your front post... you shouldn't be firing the rifle to zero a RDS.

30 clicks seems a lot to me taking into account its an Aimpoint which when leaving the factory the dot is tested to be dead center. On every CompM I owned it was nearly dead on right out of the box... I could be remembering stuff wrong...the fish that got away gets bigger every year and all.. :)

This is interesting to think about since I was thinking to myself well dieselpower maybe its because your using the stock height AP mount which I believe is co-witnessed. Then I started wondering does it even matter if the mount is full or 1/3 co-witnessed since its supposed to be a Parallax free sight :confused:

OP what zero are you using?

Nathan Krynn
12-06-2011, 7:56 AM
This is interesting to think about since I was thinking to myself well dieselpower maybe its because your using the stock height AP mount which I believe is co-witnessed. Then I started wondering does it even matter if the mount is full or 1/3 co-witnessed since its supposed to be a Parallax free sight :confused:

OP what zero are you using?

He said 50 yards which is where I believe the "problem" lies.

There really is no problem though, it is what it is.

Knife Edge
12-06-2011, 9:09 AM
I have two ML3's and a T-1. The Aimpoints are all setup for improved battle zero to minimize the amount of holdover required under 350y. The backup sights on the ARs and SCAR are all setup based upon whether that rifle's backup sight has an elevation knob or not. I think my Aimpoint on the SCAR lines up with the 300y setting on the backup, same with the M1-A and the AR with Troys are all set to improved battle zero and hence line up. I know I hold under clay pigeons a few inches at 200y with all the Aimpoints, not much, sufficient accuracy that I wouldn't have to think about it on a yote or larger animal 400y and in.

Knife Edge
12-06-2011, 9:10 AM
He said 50 yards which is where I believe the "problem" lies.

There really is no problem though, it is what it is.

That's a pretty flat trajectory....

rscot
12-06-2011, 9:59 AM
First, I used 50yds because that's what was available and set to 2.5 inches high which is close enought. I'm using the LaRue LT150 mount. I couldn't find anything on how much internal adjustment they have, so that's what I was trying to find. It's a CQB setup and if I want or need to go longer I'll just use this.
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn168/scotdodrill/IMG_0589.jpg
Instead of this
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn168/scotdodrill/PICT0030.jpg

Knife Edge
12-06-2011, 11:42 AM
First, I used 50yds because that's what was available and set to 2.5 inches high which is close enought. I'm using the LaRue LT150 mount. I couldn't find anything on how much internal adjustment they have, so that's what I was trying to find. It's a CQB setup and if I want or need to go longer I'll just use this.
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn168/scotdodrill/IMG_0589.jpg
Instead of this
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn168/scotdodrill/PICT0030.jpg

That's all good, take it to an indoor range and setup to shoot about an 1" low against the stop, rezero at 35y (i think thats the number for IBZ) when you can. It'll do CQB and distance as well as your eyes can see, assuming you have 2MOA dot, 4 MOA and I say battle zero at whatever distance you are likely to use it; Larue or GGG mount a scope like you have setup for precision work.

Wanting to sell some Aimpoints and move into 1-5 optics for said reasons.

tlillard23
12-06-2011, 12:36 PM
[Knife Edge;]....
Wanting to sell some Aimpoints and move into 1-5 optics for said reasons.[]

what are "1-5 optics"?

Knife Edge
12-06-2011, 12:39 PM
[Knife Edge;]....
Wanting to sell some Aimpoints and move into 1-5 optics for said reasons.[]

what are "1-5 optics"?

Like the Leupold 1.5-5 MRT with CMT2 reticle or others like Nightforce, SWFA, etc. Best of both worlds.

MXRider
12-06-2011, 12:46 PM
It is probably due to zeroing at 50 yards too. that is an odd distance to zero unless you plan to just sit at a 50 yard bench.


50 yard zero is a very common setup for 5.56 rifles.


http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=65679

alfred1222
12-06-2011, 12:49 PM
its fine, it happens

Knife Edge
12-06-2011, 1:04 PM
50 yard zero is a very common setup for 5.56 rifles.


http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=65679

I messed this up. 50y is the IBZ which coincides with 200y. I used to sight in everything for 200y, very flat. The day I moved out and beyond the holdover became unmanageable. Shifted to 35y, can't remember who I based that on, works well from 35y to about 400 with 10" high in middle. Basically lower torso sight picture.

Another reason I think the dot will pass or become hybrid with reticle.

dieselpower
12-06-2011, 6:08 PM
This is interesting to think about since I was thinking to myself well dieselpower maybe its because your using the stock height AP mount which I believe is co-witnessed. Then I started wondering does it even matter if the mount is full or 1/3 co-witnessed since its supposed to be a Parallax free sight :confused:

OP what zero are you using?

No, it doesnt matter with an RDS. Either Co-witness or 1/3 lower its the same. The Dot moves to the place your eye sees through the glass. This is why its EXTREMELY hard to zero a rifle with an RDS. You are correct, when the dot is close to the edge, the curve of the lens produces parallax.

You need to zero the BUIS, then place the dot over the front post as seen through the BUIS...

heres my classroom drawing on his... not a bible page, just an example I made last year. Remember, the dot is the POI no matter where it is in the glass.

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu272/Wiringguy/cowitnessdiagrams-1.jpg

carnelianbay
12-06-2011, 8:41 PM
It is probably due to zeroing at 50 yards too. that is an odd distance to zero unless you plan to just sit at a 50 yard bench.

Not exactly. After taking a few classes from SWAT officers I now zero at 50 yards. Their justification is that you'll be within -2" to +2" from 25 to 100 yards, and that shooting while in fast motion with a red dot is going to disturb your accuracy more. That dot moves like a bouncing ball when your running.

rscot
12-06-2011, 8:49 PM
This is why its EXTREMELY hard to zero a rifle with an RDS.

It actually couldn't have been any easier. I had it sighted with irons, flipped them down, shot 3 using just dot. Group was low and left. Gave 15 clicks left and 30 up and was perfect. And the dot does sit on top of the front post. The original question was, Is this much adjustment normal and how much adjustment is there.

timbo399
12-06-2011, 9:30 PM
Thank you Diesel for the diagram. As simple as a concept as is/should be, my short term memory seems to forget since I have never gone the 1/3 route, those diagrams are very helpful.

44fred
12-20-2011, 9:00 AM
I sighted in my new M4 at 50 yards. Hits about 1 1/2" low at 25 yds, about 2" high at 100 yds, and dead on at 200 yds. Worked for me with XM193. This is all I need from this set up. Using 2.5X fixed power Leupold.

HK Dave
12-20-2011, 9:21 AM
Hmm I'm confused about a few things here... and I'm uncertain where people got their information.

I've never found a problem with a 50/200yard zero for a red dot. I know a lot of people that use it and it makes a lot of sense to me personally. Some of you frown upon a 50 yard zero... ok, so where do you zero your sights?

50/200 yard zero basically keeps me flat from 50 to 200... drops about 6" by about 300 yards.

A 100 yard zero keeps me flat from 50 to 100 yards... drops 3" at 200 yards and about 11" at 300 yards. Now this make sense with a BDC reticle like on an ACOG that is designed for those drops, but to me makes no sense with a red dot... wouldn't you want to flat for as long as possible with the smallest variance possible?

The other thing that doesn't make sense to me is the idea that a red dot can't be zeroed by itself?!

I have never in my years of shooting with aimpoints and eotechs... needed irons to zero my red dot... EVER. I've always shot a group of 3, adjusted the aimpoint or eotech until i hit bullseye at my zero yardage. NEVER has that red dot wavered or missed from that point forward. Wherever the red dot is, wherever my head is, it hit where i pointed.

Never mattered to me whether it was 1/3rd lower or absolute, I can't remember one time where I couldn't zero an aimpoint or eotech.

Now with cheapie red dots, I've had problems zeroing without irons... but then again I've had problems with those PERIOD.

To the OP, 30 clicks is something like 7 inches at 100 yards... seems ok to me... I've had to do larger adjustments in the past with glass.

One thing to keep in mind... I understand certain rds makers zero at the factory... but that really means nothing considering there are nearly always variances in upper receivers. I have one upper receiver that is so off spec, I can't get an Aimpoint QRP2 to tighten on it.

chicoredneck
12-20-2011, 9:52 AM
first off...

you zero your rifle with the iron sights, then adjust the red to sit over your front post... you shouldn't be firing the rifle to zero a RDS.



This will get you close, but not exact. Doing this will speed up the precess of zeroing your optic. You should zero your red dot / holo sight just like a traditional scope.

cmace22
12-20-2011, 10:04 AM
The 50 yard zero is not odd or a problem. +- ~2" from 25-250.....

sixzulu
12-20-2011, 4:02 PM
Your aimpoint (M2/3) should adjust at 5 clicks per inch at 25m (27yd). 30 clicks would mean you were 6" low at that distance and so at 50yds you should have been ~1ft low. If that's the case and you're on now and have a little elbow room of a at least a few clicks, I wouldn't worry.

dieselpower
12-20-2011, 4:43 PM
I guess its just a matter of personal choice. I never and have never had to fire my rifle to zero a RDS. I know my Irons are dead on.

and for the guys who say Irons are not accurate... USMC shoots with irons and a heck of alot farther than 50 yards....LOL

UsgCjwf8xfk&feature=related

HK Dave
12-20-2011, 4:47 PM
Irons can be incredibly accurate... when someone says they're not, I'd be willing to bet it's because they don't know how to properly use them.