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View Full Version : Help with deciding, FAL, AR10 or PTR91?


Wycoff013
12-05-2011, 6:02 PM
So as most, I am coming to the forums to get people's experiences and views on these rifles. I am turning 40 in 2 months and figure there is no better way to celebrate, than purchasing a new firearm. I already have the common AR-15 and a Remington 700 (.308), so I thought about something in between. I have been a huge fan of FAL's and figured that I would someday have one but then I ran across a PTR91 for sale in the CG forums and it intrigued me. I have heard good things about AR10's but they seem to be a bit pricey for a good build, maybe this is due to their reliability and accuracy compared to other .308 semi-auto platforms. So, what experiences or advice would you give on these choices or is there something out there that should be considered in the .308 semi-auto family?

Thanks or your input.....

NSR500
12-05-2011, 6:13 PM
FAL

The Right Arm of the Free World.

GM4spd
12-05-2011, 6:34 PM
FAL!!

http://www.fototime.com/2C1CE16C4E29EB8/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/1AA310B11070791/standard.jpg

five.five-six
12-05-2011, 6:36 PM
you should consider the FNAR.... gas piston, rotary bolt, purportedly .5 MOA


ETA

happy birthday, your life is 1/2 over :p

Wycoff013
12-05-2011, 6:59 PM
FAL seems to be a popular choice so far. Why do you guys prefer them? I know my reasons and just want to know others views. As I said, the FAL has been a favorite and after being able to shoot one a few months back, it was sealed that I would own one. One thing I did not get to experience is if they have a good mid to long range capability, somewhere in the 300 to 800 yard range. And yes, my life is at least half over..... Thanks for that. 😉

Hoop
12-05-2011, 7:00 PM
AR 308 is the best all-around semi 308 you can buy. I like the FAL and HK pattern rifles but I like them as battle rifles and not rifles that I would actually use.

Jason762
12-05-2011, 7:07 PM
FAL seems to be a popular choice so far. Why do you guys prefer them?

Good history of battle use; thereby being reliable and accurate,

Parts are easier to come across than PTR parts, and cheaper than AR parts,

Mags are cheap and still common,

Unique looking

FWIW FAL's are still used in many parts of the world - it's easy to find recent pics of FALs-in-action in Brazil and Lybia.

GM4spd
12-05-2011, 7:15 PM
FAL has a nice,adjustable gas system regulating the least amount of gas
to work the action,it also makes it EASY on your shoulder.The ergonomics
are real good and the the takedown is easy. Pete

http://www.fototime.com/EB27917C054AE1A/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/31F5610E8127A9C/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/126577AF867E2A6/standard.jpg

wash
12-05-2011, 7:16 PM
FAL is reliable and has classic lines but it's not the most accurate rifle out there. Kits used to be cheap but prices have doubled or more in the last few years.

The AR10 type rifles can be very accurate with good reliability but the lack of surplus parts kits and smaller than AR15 production volume leads to high prices (but they are coming down slowly).

CETME/G3 type rifles can be reliable and they can be accurate but they can be very expensive if you want an accurate one. They chew up brass so reloading isn't really possible. Parts kits are drying up so expect prices to go up.

CETMEs never did it for me, I bought my FALs when they were much cheaper, I'm working on my first DPMS pattern AR10 now.

Decide if you want looks or accuracy or mangled brass, then make your choice.

Wycoff013
12-05-2011, 7:29 PM
I agree on the easy on the shoulder aspect of the FAL, GM4spd. That aspect of the rifle shocked me, as I was use to the shoulder hit I get from my Rem. 700 and expected it from the FAL but it was easy to shoot. Wash, I think you just took the PSR91 out of the running for me. I reload and planned on my next rifle being a reload friendly rifle. Good info so far. I was expecting to be talked out of getting an FAL but seems that they are as sweet as I think they are. Would like to have an accurate rifle.

SgtJT27
12-05-2011, 7:36 PM
I have the FAL and PTR. The PTR is really accurate but chews up brass and could be picky on ammo. FAL liked all the ammo I feed it, not as accurate as the PTR, but accurate enough for what it is.

Obviously a Plant
12-05-2011, 8:22 PM
um, this is Calguns.... Get all 3.
But start with the FAL

Richard Erichsen
12-05-2011, 9:00 PM
So as most, I am coming to the forums to get people's experiences and views on these rifles. I am turning 40 in 2 months and figure there is no better way to celebrate, than purchasing a new firearm. I already have the common AR-15 and a Remington 700 (.308), so I thought about something in between. I have been a huge fan of FAL's and figured that I would someday have one but then I ran across a PTR91 for sale in the CG forums and it intrigued me. I have heard good things about AR10's but they seem to be a bit pricey for a good build, maybe this is due to their reliability and accuracy compared to other .308 semi-auto platforms. So, what experiences or advice would you give on these choices or is there something out there that should be considered in the .308 semi-auto family?

Thanks or your input.....

The cost of a FAL is going up and if you wait too long you might as well buy the AR10 or the PTR91. There probably hasn't been a better time to buy a FAL and it's a best buy for that reason. If you already own an AR15, you will probably favor a rifle with last round bolt hold open and good ergonomics. The gas system allows the rifle to operate on a variety of ammunition types, though it's primarily useful in adjusting to get the minimum amount of gas necessary to cycle the action, which tends to reduce recoil. Muzzle devices are relatively easy to find in the 9/16"-24 thread. A fixed stock metric FAL with last-round bolt hold open would be a good choice (this can be added to the inch pattern L1A1, which omitted it deliberately). Of your choices, DSA is your best bet for a good utilitarian model. They make several FAL models with an increasingly high percentage of their own parts. If you want something special, ARS can build you a FAL to your specifications (within reason).

For the PTR91, I'd place it second. Depending on model, it's about the same price as the FAL, though often more costly for similar configurations to those of the DSA sourced FAL. Despite the design being attributed to mystical German gnomes and alchemists given the high cost for an original HK model, the '91 is a bit more like an AK in both construction (sheet metal) and ergonomics (not terribly ergonomic without improvements to trigger and selector switch). Recoil can be brisk due to the type of action, but some models have enhanced recoil buffers and better stocks to help take the sharp rap of the recoil pulse down a notch and spread it over a longer duration.

The AR10, unlike the other two, isn't a particularly distinct, standardized model. It will have the creature comforts and familiar position to the controls you'd expect from an AR15. Parts from one manufacturers "AR10" don't necessarily fit into the "AR10" of another manufacturer. Magazines may be proprietary, M14 or FAL. In general, the AR10 will be a bit lighter (but not by much), possibly a little more accurate and will generally demand a price premium.

In general, milsurp M80 NATO 7.62x51 mm is the safe, known-good choice. Tread carefully with commercial .308, particularly the PTR91.

For the money, the FAL is a price/performance leader, while that lasts.

R

Hoop
12-05-2011, 9:21 PM
Would like to have an accurate rifle.

Is your idea of accuracy <1" with handloads or 2" on a good day?

Wycoff013
12-05-2011, 9:24 PM
Well I can see it will be the FAL and thanks for the great information Richard. I am going to look into the suggested companies and see what best fits me. And as one suggested, I will end up with all at some point. Any suggestions on upgrades, options or necessaries for this rifle?

Wycoff013
12-05-2011, 9:25 PM
Hoop, 1" on a good day.

NorCalK9.com
12-05-2011, 9:32 PM
My vote is as follows
Ptr91 very accurate
Fal battle hardened and decent accuracy
Ar10 good-mediocre accuracy negatives di, high priced, and I just plain out dont care for di rifles.
Btw I have a saiga 308 for sale for less than any of the above options lol

shamu415
12-05-2011, 9:53 PM
FAL does not FAIL!!! Id get eh FAL or the PTR91, something different from the crowd and have decent to good accuracy

Robidouxs
12-05-2011, 10:03 PM
When I think of a .308 rifle I think of the FAL. Just look how they performed in the sandy environment in Libya. The rifle will not let you down. The rifle is not the best to shoot rapidly. I managed to consistently hit a steel target at 375 yards with only the iron sights.

Richard Erichsen
12-05-2011, 10:07 PM
Well I can see it will be the FAL and thanks for the great information Richard. I am going to look into the suggested companies and see what best fits me. And as one suggested, I will end up with all at some point. Any suggestions on upgrades, options or necessaries for this rifle?

For a FAL, a picatinny top cover (I like the DSA type, one of the best) is a nicety for mounting a scope, though it does carry the risk of marring the receiver (set screws are used to secure it) and it does make complete field stripping less practical. Fortunately FALs can be cleaned pretty well without taking the cover off by breaking the action open forward (similar to an double barrel shotgun), extracting the bolt carrier and cleaning off the breach face, chamber, bore and with the bolt carrier in your hand and the bolt.

If you don't like the sights, you can replace them. Some of the DSA models have a picatinny front and rear sight base to mount the sights of your choice. You can also pop an A2 style windage/elevation adjustable sight onto the base (unique to the base however, DSA sells one of these). KNS makes several front sight post upgrades as well. There are at least one set of tritium night sights available if you feel so inclined.

The "sand cuts" bolt carrier is a nice upgrade, but not really necessary. Once cleaned the slots can be greased (something I hadn't considered, mentioned on FALfiles) and that grease lasts a long time in addition to trapping any crud that finds its way into the action.

You can convert the rifle into paratrooper/folding stock configuration and back again with the correct set of parts if you feel so inclined. Most of this can be had surplus for reasonable prices.

A good muzzle brake (DSA, among others) is a nice upgrade and there are many brakes for the FAL. Most cost less than $50, a few over a hundred that don't work much better.

There are ambidextrous and extended selector switches that make it easier to flip the weapon to safe or fire with thumb or forefinger. A trigger job can drop the pull weight and clean up the pre and overtravel (not as bad as a typical HK G3 or factory PTR, but not AR15 class either). Falcon Arms makes a set of springs to drop the pull weight, but the best trigger quality is to be had from Bill Springfield in Colorado Springs for about $40.

A good sling won't cost much, keep it simple. The sling swivel wasn't designed to use the sling as a shooting aid, it's just for carrying. If you want support, buy a QD swivel and a QD adapter for a bi-pod. DSA sells all of it.

Finally, a good finish can turn an old warhorse into a new weapon. Two of the top metal finishes I've been looking into are Metacol III from ARS (part of his refinishing service, you can't buy it in a jug and DIY) and Black T from Birdsong (same deal, they apply it as a process, it's not a "product" per se). Both cost in the $250 to apply to all the metal in the weapon. For plastic parts, to match the metal, molyresin, duracoat or ceracoat work well.

Good luck,

R

a1fabweld
12-06-2011, 4:26 AM
Most guys have never owned, let alone shot an HK91 or clone but are sure quick to tell you all about them. I own 4 of them & IMO they combine the best features one would want in an inexpensive, accurate & reliable package.

First off, THE BRASS IS RELOADABLE! How the hell do I know? Because I reload mine. Out of the box, accuracy is +/- MOA when using match ammo. The whole "ergonomics suck" issue is purely personal preference. I love my wife's ergo's over a 300lb fat girl, but some guys like fat girls. To each their own. Of the many many thousands of rounds fired from my PTR's/SAR-8, I have yet to experience a fail to feed or extract issue. Not even once. I can't say that about my last AR .308 (which I no longer own). They can be purchased with a factory installed picatinny rail for optics mounting. Factory HK mags are the cheapest of ANY rifle on the market today. How's $5 for brand new mags sound? PTR's run in the $900-$1500 range for just about any model from a compact 16" carbine to a 20" target rifle.

When I started out on my search for the perfect .308 semi auto rifle, I went out & bought a standard SA M1A, DSA FAL, DPMS based AR .308 AP4 carbine (due to being voted NRA rifle of the year at the time), & a PTR91 16" carbine. The AR was the most unreliable rifle I've ever owned. I couldn't get through a single mag without at least 2 fail to feed or extract issues regardless the mag or ammo used. The M1A & FAL performed very well, but the PTR provided the best accuracy of the bunch.

I do like the FAL & M1A as well. They are fine rifles, but my personal preference is the HK design.

Wycoff013
12-06-2011, 7:34 AM
Af1fabweld, you make some good points on the PTR91 and have heard from multiple sources about its accuracy and relative low cost for extras. I was looking at the PTR91F as a preference if I picked one up. I am going to dig into the PTR91 a bit more before my final decision but will see myself with one sooner or later.
As far as the DSA FAL's, I am sure they will be the FAL I get. I just have to read up more between the different models (STA58, STG58, etc...). As most, I just wish I had the money right now for both.

wash
12-06-2011, 8:15 AM
The cost of a FAL is going up and if you wait too long you might as well buy the AR10 or the PTR91. There probably hasn't been a better time to buy a FAL and it's a best buy for that reason.

I liked 2005 a lot better for buying FALs.

2003 was probably even better but I was broke.

kishigo
12-06-2011, 8:26 AM
Does DSA make FAL's with bullet-buttoned receivers for California? I thought the magazines were welded on.

Kevin

Wycoff013
12-06-2011, 8:33 AM
Does DSA make FAL's with bullet-buttoned receivers for California? I thought the magazines were welded on.

Kevin

This is an interesting point that I didn't look deeply into with DSA's. As much as I dislike BB's, I didn't care much for the welded mag option. I will have to look into that.

crazychinaman
12-06-2011, 8:42 AM
If you are the big 50,I say Buy all three.I have three H&K 91's,three .308 AR-10's and six FAL'S.THEY ALL ARE A BLAST,BUT EXPENSIVE AMMO.

Wycoff013
12-06-2011, 8:57 AM
Agreed, .308 is a bit pricey but cheaper than some others. I originally was directing my search towards a 6.8 SPC AR but figured that I already have an AR, why have another. But 6.8 SPC is even more expensive than .308. Reloading always helps with cost and consistency and that's why I do it, plus I find it to be a fun task.

Mac7504
12-06-2011, 9:11 AM
I was looking and a PTR91 .308 vs a DD M4 5.56 (I know apples and oranges), but it may be worth mentioning that PTR has some internal issues (organizational); I thought it was worth mentioning.

"In 2005, the major assets of JLD Enterprises were purchased by the newly formed PTR-91 Inc. Mr. Jose Diaz (JLD Enterprises' founder and owner) stayed on with the new company as a major partner. With access to new capital and manufacturing capabilities from the partnership, PTR-91 Inc. made further advances in the quality and accuracy of the rifles, while expanding the number of available product lines and increasing production capability.

Today the company offers more than 25 different model variations, and has expanded into the law enforcement and military markets as well.[1] Nonetheless in late 2010, an internal conflict over the management and direction of the firm emerged. Financial difficulties ultimately resulted in Mr. Jose Diaz leaving the company, with its future unclear as of yet."

bob_e95482
12-06-2011, 9:40 AM
I have an FAL, an M1A, and I'm building an LR308. This I believe is the holy trinity of 7.62 battle rifles. The FAL isn't that accurate, has a lousy trigger pull, but is reliable. The M1A has the best sights and trigger, and shoots better than I do. I have yet to build the LR308, but have all the parts for less than 2K, including a Leupold VXL scope.

Sicarius
12-06-2011, 10:03 AM
All have their perks. Not sure if I have a favorite between them because I love them all for different reasons.
My first battlerifle was an M1a. I love that rifle and the ability to drop mags is golden to me. It is comfortable, great iron sights accurate and reliable. What more can one ask. There is plenty of aftermarket support for it, it just will typically cost you. It has a decent history of service and is just classic with a wood stock.
The G3 pattern was my second. It is super reliable. Charging handle is a bit of a pain and no BHO. It batters your brass pretty good but it is a great platform and is super easy to maintain with the delayed roller bolt. Aftermarket support is pretty poor and MSG and PSG parts are probably your only upgrade parts and extremely expensive. I have to admire the simplicity of it though... What you get out of the box is pretty much what you are going to stick with. It was Germany's answer to the FAL though they were suppose to adopt the FAL. They were too German to accept somebody else's battle rifle so this is what they came up with. They did a great job.
The FAL was my third and part of the reason was to just build one. It has a long and wide spread history. 93 countries adopted it. Was used by both sides in the same conflicts. It has argueably the best ergos and the lightest recoil if you adjust the gas system correctly. Left hand, non recip charging handle that you can reach. Bolt hold open that is natural to use when you seat a mag. Everything is in the right place. It is not known for its accuracy. You can configure it with about as many options as an ar from barrel length to folding stocks. Large aftermarket support for it and parts can be afforded by the typical working man. Absolutely a wonderful firearm.
The ar10 pattern is really an oversized ar15. If you know the ar15, you pretty much know the ar10 then. Don't get me wrong. It is great to shoot and most accurate by far but probably my least favorite of them all. If you are looking to put optics on, look no further. The ar10 is the way to go. The others don't lend themselves nearly as well by a long shot. It is reliable with the right mags(that is the key), extremely accurate, plenty of aftermarket support but typically the most expensive. I know mine is... They do seem to require more maintainence and definately more finiky than the others.
PTR91 is the cheapest if you are considering price. FALs are not nearly as cheap as they use to be. You can expect to pay about 1400 for a decent one. Long gone are the days of the 175 dollar imbel receivers and 200 dollar parts kits. If you build one, expect to pay 400ish for a receiver. Imbel and DSA are the best receivers though some other companies have been making some good ones as of recent. STG(steyr) parts kits are considered one of the best and that will set you back 600 for a matching one. Skip century and enterprise. A Springfield M1a would run you about 1700 and if you do go that route, I suggest getting the loaded model. It has the NM barrel and trigger. It lacks the bedded stock and rear sight of the NM but costs a lot cheaper. A cheaper alternative to the Springfield is a Norinco. The Norinco sports a forged receiver which the SA is cast. It is a true milspec receiver and the SA isn't. They run about 1k used but it is a great copy of the M14. Ar10 pattern can be built for fairly cheap depending on the sales. I have seen some patient people build them for about 1k. I have over 2k into mine without optics so far...
Kevin

sir9usr
12-06-2011, 10:15 AM
A1fabweld & Sicarius – great write up. I’ve also been shooting HK9x rifles for 25+ years now having traded my Saco imported HK91 for an SR9 in the waning days of the AW ban. For both rifles, I can probably count my misfeeds on 3 fingers and they were all related to a bad mag (avoid thermolds btw). Both rifles were 1-2moa easily with sights. Right now I’m also shooting a BPP11 (copy of an HK11) that was built by Carlos at Beltfed Precision Products in Chino off of a PTR 91 receiver. I can honestly say that the quality of the PTR receivers are top notch. One thing to consider is that HK9x are more modular than a FAL, M1A or AR10. If you have the resources, you can switch stocks in a matter of seconds with the pull of two pins – for sh*ts/giggles I’ve run my PSG1 stock on my BPP11 and a clubfoot on my SR9 while at the range (had a collapsing stock but it was gimmicky). I’ve also been able to swap a surplus Hensoldt from my SR9 to my HK93 (copy) and back again – same with the bipod.
*
I also own a 16” STG58 FAL built on a Imbel receiver w/ Hampton Para Lower. What everyone’s said about them is true but one thing about the FAL is that it will never get better than 2-3moa on sights alone (FalFiles likes to say it shoots “Minute of Man”). I mounted a USO SN-4 (4x) on mine with the DSA heavy mount and can finally gong the steel at 400yrds. If you want to put a folder on a FAL it can get involved – you need Para specific parts for the bolt carrier, top cover & different recoil springs in addition to the folding stock itself which will require transferring the trigger/hammer, takedown lever, small springs and sights. If you don’t loose pieces and are mechanically inclined, it can take about ½ - 1 hour for the switchover. I went from a Belgian “humpback” to an Isreali wood stock and finally to a folder b/c I could never get a good sight picture/alignment and would end up bruising my cheek from the recoil (which is why DSA offers a stock “pillow” cheek piece for it - *ITC). I probably also have the only FAL in the world with a 20lbs trigger (the Falcon springs didn’t help too much) BUT I still enjoy shooting it since it’s a RAW….. Recoil for both is almost the same (perceived more on the FAL due to the shorter barrel). Like A1fabweld said ergonomics will apply differently to everyone b/c to me, both safety selectors have their quirks: too long, notchy etc. You can also adjust the gas on the FAL so that the brass lands a few inches from the rifle for easy pick-up (get a gas wrench so you can adjust it when hot). You’ll be chasing HK9x/PTR fired brass for 10-30ft at your 1 to 3 o’clock so a catcher and/or an ejection port buffer is recommended if you plan on reloading.
*
I also like M1As so hopefully that’s on the OP’s short list (I have a GI Collector with a SA Gen3 fixed 10x Coupon special that’s surprisingly accurate for the price – under $1k). The only AR10 I’ve dealt with was problematic with parts. It was a friend’s build and all I remember was him dealing with a buffer/tube/mainspring/stock dilemma for a couple of weeks and then he sold it before I even had a chance to shoot it – boo!

Hoop
12-06-2011, 12:23 PM
Hoop, 1" on a good day.

Here's my suggestion:

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa195/Hooperinius/S5003275.jpg

It is just under 9lbs unloaded no optics; scope, mount, bipod and 10round mag it's 12 1/4. I have 1650 in it as pictured but that's because I added a geisselle trigger and troy handguards on top of the RRA 2 stage and DPMS quad rail I already had. It will definitely shoot 1" consistently with decent ammo and 1/2-3/4" with my best loads. Shot several 1" 5 shot groups at 200 too.

I shoot nothing but reloads and have no problems with brass life that I don't on bolt rifles (ie brittle necks after 5-6 firings needing annealing).

Mr. Casull
12-06-2011, 1:59 PM
I have an FAL and it is 100% at hitting a clay pidgeon at 450 yards. How much more accurate do you want. And I can hit the pieces after breaking the pidgeon.

wash
12-06-2011, 2:14 PM
A little history lesson here:

Germany did adopt the G1 FAL. It was their first choice but a funny thing happened, when Germany asked the Belgians for a license to build FALs, the Belgians refused (because of two little things called WWI and WWII when Germany invaded Belgium and took over the FN factories).

Germany wanted to build their own battle rifles so they licensed the Spanish CETME design as the G3 rifle.

So much for German Engineering...

Buddy Shagmore
12-06-2011, 3:55 PM
Lots of good info in this thread.
I too am looking to get another FAL (I had an FN para in the 80's),
and the PTR 91 is on my list too. On of my buddies has a HK91 that I have spent some quality time with. Always loved that gun.
I already have an M1A Scout Squad...what a gun! It's here to stay.
By the way, Turners has the PTR on sale thru Thursday Dec 7th for $1199.
I've already decided I've got to have all 3.

BHPFan
12-06-2011, 5:52 PM
A little history lesson here:

Germany did adopt the G1 FAL. It was their first choice but a funny thing happened, when Germany asked the Belgians for a license to build FALs, the Belgians refused (because of two little things called WWI and WWII when Germany invaded Belgium and took over the FN factories).

Germany wanted to build their own battle rifles so they licensed the Spanish CETME design as the G3 rifle.

So much for German Engineering...

True regarding not getting the license from FN to build G1 FALs.

However, the CETME design is still German Engineering. That design was done by the Mauser Engineers who left Germany after WW2. Mauser was designing and building a delay-roller type rifle during the last days of WW2 (Stg45?). When their engineers left for Spain, that's where they were able to implement their design into the CETME rifle.

Going back to the subject, I take FAL. You can still find parts for it. It's not as expensive as the 308ARs. I owned a HK91 a long time ago. It's a great and rugged rifle that ate any ammo, but it had the most punishing recoil among the battle rifles. You can add a heavy buffer to tame the recoil, but at the time that I owned it, over a decade ago, parts were really pricy. I currently own a South African/Rhodie FAL rifle on DSA rifle. I am planning on building another one as well as building a .308 AR.

DannyInSoCal
12-06-2011, 5:58 PM
I had the same debate in my head -

But went with the AR10 for three reasons:

1) Easily built featureless so my 20 round pre-ban mags can stop collecting dust.
2) 80% lower means no DOJ/registration bullcrap.
3) The "other" 80% lower means a kick arse pistol in .308

Carry on....

FeuerFrei
12-06-2011, 5:59 PM
DPMS patern AR10. Everybody is making parts for these. You can go from 16" carbine to 24" tack driving machine. Uppers swap out and good triggers can be had.
PTR91 would be next bet. Ex-German surplus parts are cheap and easy to get right now. Hensoldt Fero Z24 Sniper Scopes $400 w/mount. Mags $2, complete furniture swap in black or OD $20, wood furniture for $25, etc.. Accurate rifle and the newer barrels are chambered/fluted correctly. You can make the triggers better with some mods.
FAL is just a classic. Parts can be had but mags can be problematic. I think DSA is making new mags now. Origional military Trilux sights are treated like gold.
Prices are going up for "good" surplus stuff. Good solid rifles when assembled correctly.
I say collect the whole set. Start with the AR/DPMS 308.

RAMCHARGER
12-07-2011, 10:02 AM
Saiga .308 and spend the rest on AMMO :) Worked for me