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Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck
03-02-2007, 2:37 PM
Hello all,

I'll be purchasing my first handgun soon, and I just wanted to check and make sure everything will go as I plan.

As I understand it, I need to take the HSC test. Can I do this at my local gun shop, and then , assuming I pass, search for the proper handgun (I'm heavily leaning towards a CZ-75B)?

Also, I need a document that shows proof of residency. Will a telephone bill suffice for a utility? And, is it permissible if the address listed on the bill differs from that on my ID card (unfortunately, I don't have a driver's license).

Thanks in advance. Any responses are much appreciated.

Kruzr
03-02-2007, 2:40 PM
Hello all,

I'll be purchasing my first handgun soon, and I just wanted to check and make sure everything will go as I plan.

As I understand it, I need to take the HSC test. Can I do this at my local gun shop, and then , assuming I pass, search for the proper handgun (I'm heavily leaning towards a CZ-75B)?

Also, I need a document that shows proof of residency. Will a telephone bill suffice for a utility? And, is it permissible if the address listed on the bill differs from that on my ID card (unfortunately, I don't have a driver's license).

Thanks in advance. Any responses are much appreciated.

The address on your proof of residence (utility bill) must be in your name and the address must match the one that the DMV has on record. It should be current on your ID card since it will be swiped in a card reader and the information that is sent to the DOJ must match the DMV record. It can be changed by hand but what gets submitted has to match state records.

Go and try different guns before you buy one.

Directshot
03-02-2007, 2:44 PM
Hello and right back to you with a yes to your first question and a " I'm not sure on the second". Usually they want the ID address and utility bill to line up on the information..... anyone else have the exact info on this ??

mblat
03-02-2007, 3:09 PM
The following are lists of documents that will verify your residency (per DOJ and assuming you are US citizen)


Utility bill (IE: water, gas, or a LAND line telephone or cable bill)

Property deed or certificate of title

Government issued DOCUMENT (City, County, State or Federal) that has a specified expiration date or period of validity (IE: VALID vehicle registration, CCW , property tax bill. California Drivers License or California Identification Card will not work)

A residential lease/rental agreement from a company which has government recognition on that company’s letterhead. The lease must be signed and dated by which the individual (tenant) agrees to pay a specified monetary amount to occupy a residence

A residential lease/rental agreement between two individuals which is notarized. This lease must be signed and dated by which the individual (tenant) agrees to pay a specified monetary amount to occupy and abode


All forms must have your name and current physical address
All forms must be dated within 90 days
All utilities must be “land based.��? NO CELLULAR PHONE BILLS
All forms must be originals. No copies accepted


However your milage can vary from shop to shop. Some places take car registrations, some don't. Some take rental agreements, some don't. Some take bank statements, some don't. I had one place refusing to take property tax bill out of all documents!

Utility bill like land phone line or gas/electricity bill seems to be most widely accepted.

As far as HSC - you should ask you dealer if they will give you an exam. I think all of them do and even if your's won't - go to Turners.

And while I am very supportive of statements of shooting as many guns as possible before choosing the ONE, you certanly won't be dissapointed in cz75B. IMHO this is the best gun for the money. And in spite the fact that is is getting wide recognition and prase it is still very underrated.

deez
03-02-2007, 3:15 PM
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/chapter4.pdf

Title 11, Division 5, Chapter 4, Evidence of Residency Documentation
Definitions and Requirements.

The following definitions and requirements apply to documents intended to serve as evidence of residency for the acquisition of a handgun pursuant to Penal Code section 12071(b)(8)(C):

a.1. "Utility bill" means a statement of charges for providing direct service to the individual's residence by either a physical connection (i.e., hard wired telephone or cable connection, or a water or gas pipeline connection), or a telemetric connection (i.e., satellite television or radio broadcast service) to a non-mobile, fixed antenna reception device.

2. The utility bill statement date must be within three months of the current date.

3. The utility bill must bear on its face the individual's name and either of the following:

A. The individual's current residential address as declared on the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) form.

B. The individual's residential address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.

b.1. "Residential lease" means either of the following:

A. A signed and dated contract by which the individual (tenant) agrees to pay a specified monetary sum or provide other consideration for the right to occupy an abode for a specified period of time.

B. A signed and dated rental agreement by which the individual (tenant) agrees to pay a specified monetary sum or provide other consideration at fixed intervals for the right to occupy an abode.

2. The residential lease must bear the individual's name and either of the following:

A. The individual's current residential address as declared on the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) form.

B. The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.

c.1. "Property deed" means either of the following:

A. A valid deed of trust for the individual's property of current residence that identifies the individual as a grantee of the trust.

B. A valid Certificate of Title issued by a licensed title insurance company that identifies the individual as a title holder to his or her property of current residence.

2. The property deed must bear the individual's name and either of the following:

A. The individual's current residential address as declared on the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) form.

B. The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.

d. "Other evidence of residency as permitted by the Department of Justice" means either of the following:

1. A current, government-issued (city, county, special district, state, or federal) license, permit, or registration, other than a California Driver License or California Identification Card, that has a specified expiration date or period of validity. The license, permit, or registration must bear the individual's name and either of the following:

A. The individual's current residential address as declared on the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) form.

B. The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.

2. A valid peace officer credential issued by a California law enforcement agency to an active, reserve, or retired peace officer.

Note: Authority cited: Section 12071, Penal Code. Reference: Sections 12071and 12072, Penal Code.

koiloco
03-02-2007, 3:19 PM
+1 on CZ75B, lot of gun and steel and for the money.

Accurate too.

threadcrapper
03-02-2007, 3:45 PM
CZ-75b are excellent guns. Good choice. The test isn't hard, study for 20-30 minutes and you'll be fine. Think how stupid the average person is and then think people stupider than that pass the test. Just study. Take in your car registration and you're good to go!

RobG
03-02-2007, 4:16 PM
The test is really easy. You can go to http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/hscinfo.php to study if you like prior to taking the test.

Greg-Dawg
03-02-2007, 6:19 PM
I'd like to add: take a basic handgun course.

laabstract
03-02-2007, 6:39 PM
try a P01 from CZ

jwj
03-02-2007, 10:42 PM
assuming you are US citizen
Just in case you are not, this is the deal:

(1) If you have a greencard, everything is pretty much as it would be for US citizens. Just in case, bring the last four months of that utility bill, and of course your greencard, along with the HSC. Passport wouldn't hurt, although I don't think it is required. And U.S. photo ID, just to be sure.

(2) If you are a "non-immigrant" alien (any non-US citizen other than greencard holders, e.g. H1B or J1), you need to bring (a) the bills, (b) your passport, (c) U.S. driver's license/photo ID, (d) the visa (should be in the passport), (e) the I-94, (f) a hunting license (need to attend a class in order to get a hunter's education certificate which in turn allows you to buy a license), (g) the HSC.

At that point, you need to pray that your dealer is sufficiently versed in the law to make it happen. And BTW: greencard holders put the alien registration number into the application, non-immigrants their "admission number", which is the one you would find on your I-94. If you are a non-immigrant, make sure your dealer checks the box that says that you are falling under the various exceptions of non-immigrants owning firearms, and that the reason for that exception is the hunting license.

Good luck either way,

-- j

edsel6502
03-03-2007, 12:03 AM
At that point, you need to pray that your dealer is sufficiently versed in the law to make it happen. And BTW: greencard holders put the alien registration number into the application, non-immigrants their "admission number", which is the one you would find on your I-94. If you are a non-immigrant, make sure your dealer checks the box that says that you are falling under the various exceptions of non-immigrants owning firearms, and that the reason for that exception is the hunting license.

Good luck either way,

-- j

The following have experience in the above

City Arms in Pacifica
Irvington Arms in Fremont
Sportmen's Supply in Campbell

Please also note. If you leave the US and return. You have to wait 90 days to re-establish residency before you can purchase a boomstick.

tcp
03-03-2007, 12:32 AM
the test shouldn't be too difficult for anybody who has ever handled a gun. if not, it's pretty much common sense. by the way, the cz 75 is an excellent gun. experienced or not.

Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck
03-03-2007, 12:39 AM
Thanks for all the responses!:)

I am a U.S. citizen, so that's all squared away. However, I'd like to ask one more thing about the proof of residency.

The address listed on my ID card is my home address. However, since getting my ID card, I've gone away to school and the utility bill (my telephone bill) is addressed to the apartment in which I'm living. Reading the DOJ literature, it seems like either the bill has to match the address on the ID card, or it has to match the address on the DROS form. Too bad the forms have to be originals. I was thinking of using my lease agreement as a back up.

Is there a way to know what address will be on the DROS form? I've previously purchased long arms in California, but it's been a few years, and I don't know if that is something that I fill out or something that's in the database.

I've downloaded and read the HSC study guide, and plan to read it through at least once more, but thanks for the link.

There's a couple of reasons why I prefer the 75B over the P01 (not least of which is price). I'm pretty set on the 75B, but I've got the XD9 as my second choice with the Taurus 24/7 rounding out the top three. But unless the CZ proves to be too big for my hands or something, I intend to go with it.

I'd like to try and rent my top three to try and find what's best for me, but the only range that rents that's nearby only has the XD for rent, and the ones that are farther away have some weird policy where you have to bring your own handgun before you can rent one of theirs. Also, my window of time to buy is rather limited for the near future (I've got limited mobility thanks to my incompetence regarding getting a driver's license:mad: ).

Thanks again for all the replies and listening to my rant.

kilword
03-03-2007, 12:44 AM
get the cz75!!!!
such a awesome gun

Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck
03-03-2007, 6:47 PM
get the cz75!!!!
such a awesome gun


So I've heard :), from many and over several years. The consistency of so many opinions is what influenced me towards this handgun in the first place (of course, when I first became interested in the CZ75B, it was a lot less known and much cheaper).

TRod1222
03-03-2007, 7:29 PM
So what do you do when you don't have the utility bills in your name? what else can you use to prove?

mike100
03-03-2007, 7:32 PM
The indoor ranges with rentals have adopted policies like:

"bring your own gun or a friend" to rent. this weeds out lone suicidal types that make a mess on the firing line...bad for business, obviously. They really want rental revenue..bring a friend..that should do it.

also, the cz-75b in 9mm is solid...I've heard and seen bad with the 40 cal one, but they have been making the pistol in 9mm for decades. The one thing I do not like about mine is that the b model has a fair amount of trigger creep. There is an aftermarket hammer and action work that can be done to it, but then that ends up adding $150+ depending on how much labor you pay for the work. I guess I can't complain...it's one of my top 3 shooters and I got mine for $398 last year.

Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck
03-04-2007, 12:33 AM
Ah, that sounds like a good price. I'm surprised they were selling for that low last year.

I still think those rental policies are wrong. What's to prevent some guy from just shooting up the lane anyways? What about people like me who are searching to buy their first handgun. I can't bring my rifles (the only other guns I own), because I'm pretty sure they aren't allowed at those ranges.

Anyways, I answered my question about the DROS form:D . I hadn't read Ch. 5 of the HSC study guide yet, and I just learned that I'm the one who fills in the info about me on the DROS, so all I have to do is use my apartment's address, right?

Thanks again.

jwj
03-04-2007, 8:21 AM
So what do you do when you don't have the utility bills in your name? what else can you use to prove?I've heard that a rental agreement for an apartment/condo/house worked.

-- j

TRod1222
03-04-2007, 10:44 AM
Can you use your car insurance registration or vehicle registration?

ghost
03-04-2007, 11:02 AM
Can you use your car insurance registration or vehicle registration?
i think you can as long as the address matches your id to show proof of residence.