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View Full Version : AR15 Short Stroking w/Wolf 62gr.


sava
12-02-2011, 3:01 AM
Hey guys,

I've done quite a bit of research and have determined that my newly built AR15 is short stroking with certain types of ammo. First I'll give you an idea of what the build consists of, and then I'll write about the issues I'm having.

18" DPMS MK12 Barrel
Rifle Length Gas Tube
DPMS Gas Block
YHM FF Rail
YHM Upper Receiver
Palmetto State Armory BCG
PSA Charging Handle
AeroPrecision Lower w/PSA LPK
RRA A2 Stock w/buffer

After assembly, lubrication, and function check, I threw on a Nikon scope and decided to go sight in. I used PMC X-Tac 62gr ammo for the first 100-200 rounds, and everything was great. I had no issues of any kind, and I was able to sight in at 100yds and get 1-1.5" groups:D. That was good enough for me, so I called it a day.

The next weekend I headed out to the range and started using Wolf 62gr ammo. This is where I began having issues. Initially I fired about 20 rounds w/o any hiccups, and then began having problems. After firing a round, the case would eject but the bolt wouldn't come back far enough to appropriately strip a new round from the mag. It would catch the next round in the middle, and then proceed to jam the nose into the feed ramps. Since it couldn't push the round from the case, I had a jammed rifle. From my understanding, this is a classic case of not enough gas pushing the bolt back. Thus, I have a short stroking rifle. I took the rifle apart and lubed the BCG thinking that might help. Nope. Same issue. Every other round would short stroke.

I stripped the Wolf 62gr ammo from the mags and loaded them up with the PMC X-Tac 62gr. I fired a couple mags with no issues whatsoever, so I decided to troubleshoot further. I loaded up with the Wolf 62gr and again experienced consistent short stroking issues. Then I went back to the PMC X-Tac 62gr, and everything was working as normal.

Perplexed with this situation, I am in need of your opinions. Is it a rifle related issue, or a ammo related issue? Once again, PMC X-Tac 62gr runs and cycles correctly 100% of the time, whereas the Wolf 62gr is about 50%.

Is there any way to correct this issue?:confused: I would like to continue shooting Wolf as I have accumulated a few thousand rounds, but if it wont cycle correctly, how can I continue to enjoy my range time:chris:.

Any advice and feedback is greatly appreciated.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/stan_the_man_25/Guns/DSC00483.jpg

Nismo
12-02-2011, 3:17 AM
What stock/weight buffer?

sava
12-02-2011, 3:34 AM
RRA A2 Stock w/ their buffer. I'll put that in the OP.

kemikalembalance
12-02-2011, 3:59 AM
There are different weight buffers. Or you could take the buffer apart and remove one of the weights. Works for some but not others. You can also cut one coil off of the spring. But changing the resistance levels may result in the BCM moving to fast and you may have the same issue with the PMC ammo. You may want to aquire a new spring and buffer and tune it to the wolf ammo. Personally, I would recommend selling the wolf due to the fact of how filthy it is. It will clog up the rifle very quickly. And oil it after you use it. I read in a post here a week ago that some ruined their M1 with a rust issue and I believe it was due to the corrosive powder in the wolf ammo.

MrPlink
12-02-2011, 4:27 AM
^ wolf is not corrosive. Thanks for playing

shadow65
12-02-2011, 4:38 AM
Run some more full power ammo through it. If you have a stock buffer in it, not much you can do there. I wouldn't cut the recoil spring.
I would say it just needs a good break in period.
Dave N

Nathan Krynn
12-02-2011, 6:25 AM
Wolf is underpowered ammo. Unfortunately unless you want to do drastic things like open up your gas port, cut your buffer spring, or reduce the weight of your buffer then you probably won't be able to run it.

BTW I do NOT recommend you do any of those things.

Mail Clerk
12-02-2011, 6:45 AM
sava,

My experience using Wolf ammo is that if one shoots their rifle/pistol too fast the chamber heats up very fast causing the lacquered/polymer case to stick inside the chamber. If you shoot from the bench like I do 95% of the time just slow down and try not to allow the rifle to heat up as much as you can. Personally I like Wolf ammo myself cuz for sure it has good non-corrosive primers. Since your rifle functions fine using brassed cased ammo you know the fault is not with the rifle!

In addition, your rifle looks fantastic. I'm in the works for a "Dissapator" version for my battery. Hope I can find one for a reasonable price at the next show.

Mail Clerk

Nathan Krynn
12-02-2011, 6:57 AM
sava,

My experience using Wolf ammo is that if one shoots their rifle/pistol too fast the chamber heats up very fast causing the lacquered/polymer case to stick inside the chamber. If you shoot from the bench like I do 95% of the time just slow down and try not to allow the rifle to heat up as much as you can. Personally I like Wolf ammo myself cuz for sure it has good non-corrosive primers. Since your rifle functions fine using brassed cased ammo you know the fault is not with the rifle!


Mail Clerk

Didn't they stop using lacquer?

Lacquer is the reason I stopped using it, some old wolf ammo crapped out one of my barrels.

Plus it was the most inconsistent stuff I have ever seen, really all Russian ammo. I used to get so mad at a bench shooting that crud. Now I mostly shot dynamic shooting so using it wouldn't matter much.

Mail Clerk
12-02-2011, 7:05 AM
Nathan,

Yes what you say is very true and I should retract that part of my last statement. I however have not shot much of the newer polymer coatings for a good while cuz work and making money and keeping food on the table is more important. Currently it's such a struggle to get a chance and shoot cuz ammo is outrageously high for my pocket book so if and when I head to the range I have to carefully plans my outing.

Mail Clerk

goodlookin1
12-02-2011, 7:11 AM
Common gas issue.

It's probably your gas port. You would need to take it in and have it ever so slightly opened up....IF you felt you needed the wolf ammo to work. But the fact is that by doing this, the hotter loads will now recoil more because the buffer and carrier will be pushed back more easily, thus hitting the back of the buffer tube and causing a slight "slamming" feel. You dont want this if you can avoid it. Most likely, your hotter ammo is at the perfect mix for gas to spring/buffer/port size ratio. I'd recommend sticking with that for now.

Once you fire a sufficient number of rounds, you could try the wolf ammo again and see if your gun has broken in enough to run it smoothly.


When I first bought my .308 AR, I tried some 7.62 American Tactical rounds. It was short stroking big time. I thought it was crap ammo. So I only ran my hotter reloads, and they all went without a hitch. After a few months went by and having much more range time on the rifle (read: about 300 rounds down range), I decided to pull out the other American Tactical 7.62x51 rounds again and see how they ran. They all went without a hitch! I made NO changes to the rifle at all.....it just needed a break in time.

Truth is, every AR needs to "break in" to run more smoothly. Having the bolt go back and forth will smooth out the rough parts in the receiver, on the carrier and in the buffer tube. You'll notice how hard it is to charge the carrier before you have ever shot it, but after a few range trips and a 1000 rounds down the pipe, it's as smooth as butter. That's due to the rough surfaces being smoothed out.

YMMV.

shadow65
12-02-2011, 7:23 AM
I will not own a rifle that won't cycle Wolf. I've shot a ton of it. Never hurt any of my rifles. Accuracy is good enough for shooting/plinking. It isn't a match round. Wasn't meant to be.
The steel case doesn't contract as fast as brass. This is the issue with sticking in the chamber. It also does not expand as fast as brass and will let carbon and gunk get into the chamber. It has nothing to do with the coating.
The red sealant on the primer will help gum up the chamber.
I would install a BCM extractor spring up grade to ensure the empty is being ejected.

I hand cycle new builds 200 times before ever hitting the range. It helps wear the parts in.

Since you built it, make sure the gas block is still properly aligned. If it moved, the gas could be getting cut off.
Scrub the chamber, lube the BCG well, run some full power ammo through it, and there is a good chance it will cycle the Wolf.
Dave N

xxINKxx
12-02-2011, 7:41 AM
Wolf is known for being a tad underpowered. Probably reason why the other ammo is fine.

17+1
12-02-2011, 7:56 AM
Run some more full power ammo through it. If you have a stock buffer in it, not much you can do there. I wouldn't cut the recoil spring.
I would say it just needs a good break in period.
Dave N

Agree.

Everything should loosen and smooth with more rounds through the rifle.

Wolf is underpowered ammo. Unfortunately unless you want to do drastic things like open up your gas port, cut your buffer spring, or reduce the weight of your buffer then you probably won't be able to run it.

BTW I do NOT recommend you do any of those things.

I agree as well.

I wouldn't modify a functional, high quality rifle in order to shoot garbage ammo through it.

Coyote Brown
12-02-2011, 8:19 AM
Rifle length gas system plus 18" barrel equals short dwell time. About 1/2 of the gas push time as on a 20" barrel.

You will always have problems with weak ammo. Your gas port seems well tuned for hot ammo . Use mil surplus 556 and you should be fine.

Try the wolf after 600 plus rounds and cleaning the gas tube. You might be gtg.

Nathan Krynn
12-02-2011, 8:20 AM
Nathan,

Yes what you say is very true and I should retract that part of my last statement. I however have not shot much of the newer polymer coatings for a good while cuz work and making money and keeping food on the table is more important. Currently it's such a struggle to get a chance and shoot cuz ammo is outrageously high for my pocket book so if and when I head to the range I have to carefully plans my outing.

Mail Clerk

Please know I wasn't insulting or or anything I was more making sure they stopped using the lacquer.

DavidRSA
12-02-2011, 8:25 AM
I had the same issue with Tula ammo with my S&W mp15.

I ended up getting a BCM lower with the S&W upper and now I never have a problem. Not one. Perhaps it is the buffer weight, but I'm no expert. It sure is nice to be able to save some dough using the Russian ammo.

GM4spd
12-02-2011, 9:30 AM
You need a piston 556.:D Pete

sava
12-02-2011, 9:35 AM
Thanks for all the replies guys. I have no intention of "fixing" my rifle simply to run the Wolf ammo. I'll shoot more of the brass cased stuff, and then try again with the Wolf.

IMO, a rifle should run any kind of ammo through it. A picky rifle is not a good thing in my book.

coltn46920
12-02-2011, 9:48 AM
Wolf is underpowered ammo. Unfortunately unless you want to do drastic things like open up your gas port, cut your buffer spring, or reduce the weight of your buffer then you probably won't be able to run it.

BTW I do NOT recommend you do any of those things.

I can vouch that a reduced buffer weight does not work.
I purchased a reduced buffer spring tension weight but, I have not tried it yet.

captbilly
12-02-2011, 10:00 AM
Thanks for all the replies guys. I have no intention of "fixing" my rifle simply to run the Wolf ammo. I'll shoot more of the brass cased stuff, and then try again with the Wolf.

IMO, a rifle should run any kind of ammo through it. A picky rifle is not a good thing in my book.

It you want your rifle to shoot accurately then you do not want is over gassed. The only way to ensure that your rifle will shoot low powered ammo is to have the gas system set overly high for more powerful ammo, and this is often how ARs are set up but I would suggest that you leave it alone. Personally, I am putting an adjustable gas block on my AR-10 so that I can turn down the gas so that it just cycles enough for the ammo I am using. I believe that FN FAL rifles come from the factory with an adjustable gas valve, just so they can keep the gas system tuned to the ammo.

FeuerFrei
12-02-2011, 10:08 AM
Wolf no workie? This how I fix it. < $100
Remove OEM gas block and open up gas port ONE size.
Swap the gas block to a JP. Ent. adjustable block or equivialant. Install GB with a new gas tube. (saves time swapping gas tubes).
Try Wolf ammo and tune gas block as needed. Usually doesn't require swapping buffers or springs.
This is cheaper than dumping all of your Wolf ammo and when you switch to full power ammo you retune the GB and it still shoots smooth, not over gassed.
I am not a huge fan of Wolf in particular but I do require all of my AR rifles/pistols eat anything available.
My nickels worth of free advise.

seal20
12-02-2011, 10:35 AM
Mine does the exact same thing when running a heavy buffer, which is great for quality ammo. When using wolf or tula, I have to switch out to my light buffer. Problem solved...for me. This is with a 16" LMT carbine.